United First Financial - Looking for the truth

JOrsak said: mikef07 said: JOrsak said: ellory said: JOrsak said: LOL! Thanks. (I think.) As I have said... I'm no mathematician. I do understand the concept though and it's actually quite simple to me. It did take me a few times of hearing it before I got it. I'm interested to see if others here will understand the concept / see how it works.

Thanks for being honest that you have no clue on how badly you are scamming people.

But you've just gotten the buzzer for dodging quetisons

So, let's try again

JOrsak, you are another "new member" huckster looking for marks and a $2500 MLM commission

We throughly understand

1.The scam misinformation techniques you use
2. The massive MLM commissions you get paid

You want to play here? Be the first UFF /MMA advocate to actually answer the questions that every advocate has dodged. Start at page 1, and answer the questions. On point. Don't spew marketing hype. And don't tell us we don't understand. I personally understand so well that I need a shower to clean up after each exchange

Otherwise just go somewhere else to commit fraud


WOW! Whatever dude. I just typed a whole freakin page of explanation to show you how it works. Instead of responding to that, maybe asking a question related to that, you just repeat your tripe and animosity and the idiotic "Start at page one and answer the questions."

Grow up and act like an adult and have a civilized conversation or just drop off.

Just answer the questions that I wrote above:

I will write them again. You can put the answer next to each one.

How long does MMA say it will take utnil your mortgae is paid off?
What was the amount you owed on your mortgage when you began this program?
What is the total amount of interest you will pay by using this program? (This number should be in the total interest paid column on your analysis)
What is the interest rate of your mortgage?

Very simple questions and these can prove us all wrong.


Sorry, I didn't see your post in between the others.

"How long does MMA say it will take utnil your mortgae is paid off?"
8.2 years
"What was the amount you owed on your mortgage when you began this program?"
$138,297.71
"What is the total amount of interest you will pay by using this program?"
$40,132.65
"What is the interest rate of your mortgage?"
6%

Sorry one more. What is your normal mortgage payment?

kamalktk said: JOrsak said:
I am no mathematician.
Unfortunately for you, some people on here know a thing or two about math.

By my count you are the 16th person to come to these forums to tout this. All 15 previous times, each and every claim made by the UFF/MMA shill has been completely and utterly debunked. We use UFF's official numbers and presentations to do so (they are freely available from UFF itself), and we've had our numbers run by official UFF representatives using the actual software. It's pointless for you to try again (not that I think that will stop you). You can't say "do the math", we've done it. You can't say "you need the software", we've had numbers done by official UFF reps in this very thread, and we would come out thousands of dollars worse off if we did the MMA.

There is no secret to the software. Will you claims it's written by MIT mathematicians this time, or NASA Aerospace engineers, or Tibetan monks, or someone else? Here, I'll write the program for you in two lines of code.
10 print "Pay every free penny towards your mortgage!"
20 goto 10.
That's it, that's the whole package. I'm sorry you paid $3500 for that. I would have sold it to you for the bargain price of $3400.

Just out of curiosity, did you read my post? So far (as you guys are claiming of the MMA reps) no one has responded to the scenario example. So, here it is again:

In example:

Let's say you have 10K on a credit card and an interest & principle payment of $300 (just an example) and a Net monthly income of $5K. In that $300 payment $200 goes to principle and $100 to interest.

You get a HELOC or Personal Line of Credit (LOC) for $10K. The LOC has to be interest only, have a variable rate (interest calculated daily) and have check writing capabilities. You then use your HELOC or Personal Line of Credit (In Texas HELOC's won't work) to pay off the Credit Card. It is interest only so your payment is now $200. You picked up $100 a month in discretionary income.

So... you now have very little different. $10K was owed to a credit card and now it's paid off but you have $10K in an interest only line of credit. If it's a HELOC it is a better type of loan since the interest is tax deductible but that would just be tax savings (which is nice.) As mentioned earlier, in Texas (Due to certain restrictions) HELOCs won't work.

Now... here's where it gets different. Each time you get paid, you deposit your entire paycheck into your line of credit. So, my $10K balance is now $5K. If I could let my $5K sit there all month it would be easy to understand that my payment would be half of what it was when I owed $10K. However, I have bills to pay. So, as the bills come due I pay them. Each day my balance climbs back up so that by the end of the month I'm back at $10K minus whatever my discretionary income is. However, everyday that my $ sat in the LOC it took away SOME amount of interest. It is that saved interest that the software calculates on a daily basis and then informs you to send as a lump sum ADDITIONAL payment on top of your regular mortgage payment.

So, without coming out of pocket extra money, the method of offsetting interesting or canceling out interest allows you to save money which becomes additional principle payment.

I hope that you can understand the concept (forgive my poor explanation otherwise)because the math behind all the interest calculations and the process of tracking what amount to pull from the LOC, when, etc., is what the company spent 2 million dollars developing.

The common mistake people make is thinking that their mortgage is actually 6% or whatever rate they have. That is only true if you average it out over the length of the note. In truth you are paying over 80% to interest in year one. It takes almost 20 years to just get to the point that you are paying 50%. So, obviously, ever bit that I can get sent to the principle (ESPECIALLY EARLY ON) has a huge impact.

I am no mathematician. But I have seen the numbers and do know it works.

JOrsak said: mikef07 said: JOrsak said: ellory said: JOrsak said: LOL! Thanks. (I think.) As I have said... I'm no mathematician. I do understand the concept though and it's actually quite simple to me. It did take me a few times of hearing it before I got it. I'm interested to see if others here will understand the concept / see how it works.

Thanks for being honest that you have no clue on how badly you are scamming people.

But you've just gotten the buzzer for dodging quetisons

So, let's try again

JOrsak, you are another "new member" huckster looking for marks and a $2500 MLM commission

We throughly understand

1.The scam misinformation techniques you use
2. The massive MLM commissions you get paid

You want to play here? Be the first UFF /MMA advocate to actually answer the questions that every advocate has dodged. Start at page 1, and answer the questions. On point. Don't spew marketing hype. And don't tell us we don't understand. I personally understand so well that I need a shower to clean up after each exchange

Otherwise just go somewhere else to commit fraud


WOW! Whatever dude. I just typed a whole freakin page of explanation to show you how it works. Instead of responding to that, maybe asking a question related to that, you just repeat your tripe and animosity and the idiotic "Start at page one and answer the questions."

Grow up and act like an adult and have a civilized conversation or just drop off.

Just answer the questions that I wrote above:

I will write them again. You can put the answer next to each one.

How long does MMA say it will take utnil your mortgae is paid off?
What was the amount you owed on your mortgage when you began this program?
What is the total amount of interest you will pay by using this program? (This number should be in the total interest paid column on your analysis)
What is the interest rate of your mortgage?

Very simple questions and these can prove us all wrong.


Sorry, I didn't see your post in between the others.

"How long does MMA say it will take utnil your mortgae is paid off?"
8.2 years
"What was the amount you owed on your mortgage when you began this program?"
$138,297.71
"What is the total amount of interest you will pay by using this program?"
$40,132.65
"What is the interest rate of your mortgage?"
6%

If you were to just add $955 to each monthly payment you could do this on your own and have a piad off mortgage in 8.2 years.

I think you will agree that if you follow the MMA program when it is all said and done you will have paid $138,297.71 to the principal of your mortgage, you will have paid 40,132.65 in interest to your mortgage and your HELOC combined, and you will have paid that was added to your HELOC and was added to the total principal paid.

This gives you a total of $181,930.36. That is the actual amount of cash you will have spent after everything is said and done over an 8.2 year period.

If you were to just send in an extra $955 per month in 8.2 years you will have paid off your mortgage of $138,297.71, you will have also paid interest on that mortgage of $37,102.78, and you will not have paid for the software.

The total here is $175,400.49. Tht is the actual amount of cash you would have spent doing it on your own.

$175,400.49 (Doing it on your own) < $181,930.36 (The amount you will pay using the MMA.

By using the MMA software you will have paid $6529.87 more than doing it on your own.

Now the question is did you get scammed? I don't know. You looked at the figures they gave you, were happy with those figures, and spent the money on hte software to be able to achieve those figures. I don't really consider this getting scammed any more than a person walking into a car dealership and agreeing to buy X car for $20,000 and then the next guy walking in and buying the same exact car for $18,000. Both got hwat they wanted but at a different price. The guy who spent $20,000 just spent $2,000 more for the same thing. You just spent $6529.87 for the same outcome.

I will politely ignore your last paragraph, but your understanding of salary float to offset interest debt is correct.

So, you have a 6% apy debt, and can offset it by your monthly salary (because you can hold off paying every single bill until the day your are paid again) ..

Unreasonable, but lets start there.

Will you agree that the "interest cancellation" is salary*6/100 for the first year ?

JOrsak said:
The common mistake people make is thinking that their mortgage is actually 6% or whatever rate they have. That is only true if you average it out over the length of the note. In truth you are paying over 80% to interest in year one. It takes almost 20 years to just get to the point that you are paying 50%.
If that were true, on a 200k mortgage at 80% you'd pay 160k in interest alone in the first year, over 12k a month, just in interest. A mortgage is simple interest, and you are confused by the fact you pay it in an amortized fashion.

Guys, our newest UFF scam victim in under the impression that the salary float is all that is paying down the home loan principle faster, and not more money than the minimum monthly mortgage payment coming out of his pocket.

In other words, if we want to convince him of the scam (if it is possible to convince these people before the government steps in), it will take showing that discretionary income must be involved to see shortening of the home loan.

It is amazing once "real" numbers are posted they seem to be gone. Great new thread and of utmost importance. Theoretical numbers mean nothing, whereas real numbers simply paint the true picture for anyone.

mikef07 said: It is amazing once "real" numbers are posted they seem to be gone. Great new thread and of utmost importance. Theoretical numbers mean nothing, whereas real numbers simply paint the true picture for anyone.

The ego / attitude in here is unreal. I can see why people leave the conversation. Has it ever occurred to you that I might have a life and don't spend my entire day hanging on each of your posts?

I have a family. It's the weekend. I give priority to them. I'm sorry if I'm not replying to you in a manner that is suitable for YOUR time table.

Once again. Let's all try having a conversation where pejorative discourse isn't the only means of communication. I'm trying to be patient but SHEESH. Give it a rest.

kamalktk said: JOrsak said:
The common mistake people make is thinking that their mortgage is actually 6% or whatever rate they have. That is only true if you average it out over the length of the note. In truth you are paying over 80% to interest in year one. It takes almost 20 years to just get to the point that you are paying 50%.
If that were true, on a 200k mortgage at 80% you'd pay 160k in interest alone in the first year, over 12k a month, just in interest. A mortgage is simple interest, and you are confused by the fact you pay it in an amortized fashion.

Let me restate what I meant as I know that was confusing having read it again. What I meant to say is that your loan is not a constant 6% it is front loaded. You do not pay 6% day to day and year by year. Of your $1,000 payment in year one $800 + is going to principle. The EFFECTIVE interest rate is thus MUCH higher.

Nope. I was searching info on th eproduct and this was teh first link that came up.

EricGo07 said: JOrsak said: So, in effect, I am managing to send in additional principle payment without coming out of my pocket to do it.No one disputes this. What you do not understand is that the amount of "interest cancellation" your salary float is generating is about $5 a month -- no where near the ~ $17/month the $3500 would have "cancelled in interest" had you sent it to the home loan, rather than to the scam. AND, you would have the $3500.

I know... you are going to say: But the program says I'll be mortgage free years early !! That cannot possibly be from $5 a month. You are right; the years melt off as you send more money from your salary beyond the minimum payment due. If you doubt it, just watch what happens to your happy mortgage payoff scenario when you tell the program you do not have discretionary income.

Sorry, laddie. You have been scammed, and only you and confuseU do not know it. Actually, only you do not know it. ConfuseU thinks a $3500 program that exhorts him to not waste money, but send it to his mortgage is worth the cost of admission.

I finally found this comment. I looked for it for some time. I responded somewhere above but honestly it's getting hard to keep up with all of your responses as it seems there are 5-7 of you commenting.

Your math is pretty off on this example. As given in the example, the person would have a net monthly income of $5K. $5K sitting in the bank for 2weeks takes away FAR MORE than $5 in interest.

I don't know where you bank at but it sounds like I need to get an account there because you have some MAJOR low interest.

JOrsak said: Nope. I was searching info on th eproduct and this was teh first link that came up.

The first/second for searches of UFF used to be to scam.com. That site went down recently. UFF's scam of a product was thrashed pretty throughly over there. I see it's getting a similar thrashing here.

It's too bad scam.com went down though. Recently, we were able to get a UFF agent to admit the MMA software DOES NOT BEAT the traditional approach of applying all extra money towards the mortgage. He even ran his numbers for us, and we saw UFF was taking months longer every time. But he was happy selling his $3500 product, because he said it helps convince people to pay all their extra money towards a mortgage better than any other product he knows.

What I meant to say is that your loan is not a constant 6% it is front loaded. You do not pay 6% day to day and year by year. Of your $1,000 payment in year one $800 + is going to principle. The EFFECTIVE interest rate is thus MUCH higher.

It's simply amazing people keep falling for the above nonsense. The 'effective' rate on your mortgage is indeed your APR. there is no 'front loaded' or 'amortized' interest. You pay interest on your currently outstanding balance at your APR...simple as that. If you owe 100k this month and your rate is 6% your intertest this month will be $500. If you make a 99k payment to principle to make your balance 1k next month your interest on that will be $5. Maybe if people didn't have this misperception of mortgages being complicated scams like UFF wouldn't get off the ground.

JOrsak said: You know what is really sad to me about this site is that for a group of people who "Seem" as though they want to "help" people....
It's called tough love.

JOrsak said:
As for your above statement, are you telling me that you believe mortgage interest is not front loaded? Are you telling me that you believe if I sold my house in year 1 that it would appear that I had paid down my house by 1 year of payments with only 6% interest taken from those payments and all teh rest was applied to principle?

Please explain.
You do not understand amortized payment, linked here. A mortgage loan is simple interest. When you take a 30 year fixed mortgage, you agree to pay it on a 30 year amortization schedule. There is no secret and the banks are not messing with you.

JOrsak said:

Oh... I think I do understand it well enough to know that the "effect rate" of year one is a 590% interest. The "effective rate" of interest at year 10 is 43% and some change.

So, let's see if we can reach some mutual understanding here together.

"There is no secret and the banks are not messing with you." I know that. I also know that I am paying the interest upfront on an amortized schedule. The "effect" of paying the interest up front produces a situation where little principle is paid down early on. Thus, if I sold my house in year 1, it would not appear as though I had paid 6% interest. It would appear that I had paid 590% interest.

Do you agree or disagree?
Preserved, and disagree.

JOrsak said: EricGo07 said: JOrsak said: So, in effect, I am managing to send in additional principle payment without coming out of my pocket to do it.No one disputes this. What you do not understand is that the amount of "interest cancellation" your salary float is generating is about $5 a month -- no where near the ~ $17/month the $3500 would have "cancelled in interest" had you sent it to the home loan, rather than to the scam. AND, you would have the $3500.

I know... you are going to say: But the program says I'll be mortgage free years early !! That cannot possibly be from $5 a month. You are right; the years melt off as you send more money from your salary beyond the minimum payment due. If you doubt it, just watch what happens to your happy mortgage payoff scenario when you tell the program you do not have discretionary income.

Sorry, laddie. You have been scammed, and only you and confuseU do not know it. Actually, only you do not know it. ConfuseU thinks a $3500 program that exhorts him to not waste money, but send it to his mortgage is worth the cost of admission.


I finally found this comment. I looked for it for some time. I responded somewhere above but honestly it's getting hard to keep up with all of your responses as it seems there are 5-7 of you commenting.

Your math is pretty off on this example. As given in the example, the person would have a net monthly income of $5K. $5K sitting in the bank for 2weeks takes away FAR MORE than $5 in interest.

I don't know where you bank at but it sounds like I need to get an account there because you have some MAJOR low interest.$5000 for two weeks is more money than most people who fall for this scam have, but sure, lets use this number.

Using a home mortgage loan of 6% for our example ..

It generates 5000*.06/26 = $11.54 a month of "interest cancellation"
But the $3500 you are thinking of paying for the scam COSTS you 3500*.06/12 = $17.5 a month of "interest cancellation" -- AND you are down $3500.

Side comment: you are getting snide remarks mostly because your questions and statements have been refuted ad nauseum multiple times in the past 60 pages of this thread. Since you don't have the civility to read the thread FIRST, you can hardly expect patience.

I am *so* bored by UFFers coming here with new terms and labels they think they understand but do not.

"Interest Cancellation"
"Front loading"
"Effective Interest"

Why not just stick with

1. Principal
2. Interest expressed as APR
3. Compounding

It would make the discussion *so* much easier. But I suppose that is the point; how better to bamboozle victims than with hackneyed labels that suggest financial magic, rather than repackaged scam ?

EricGo07 said: Before starting the scam, based on

* Principal= $138297
* Interest Rate= 6%
* Amortization Period= 8.2 years
* Starting month= Oct
* Starting year= 2007
* Monthly Pre-payment= $0
* Annual Pre-payment= $ 0.00

A 30 year fixed loan would be paid off at $829.16 a month
The accelerated amort schedule requires a monthly payment of $1782.88

Now, you tell us: Do you think your salary float all by itself is generating $953.72 EACH MONTH ?

Jorsak~

The above post SAYS IT ALL. Please answer Eric's question. Do you SERIOUSLY think the extra $953 needed each month to pay off the mortgage early is coming from the salary float?

By your own admission, you don't understand math very well. That's very obvious by some of the explanations you've tried to give. Did you ever stop to think that most people really don't either, and that's why it's easy to convince people ( LIKE YOU )that the software has some kind of magic algorhythm that makes it work? Well, there isn't. The extra money to put towards your mortgage has to come from somewhere, right? It doesn't come from the float, it comes from your discretionary income.

To be clear about this, I'm not saying the MMA software doesn't work. I'm saying two things 1) The marketing is deceitful because it does not have any kind of magic that allows you to pay off your mortgage early without making extra payments towards the principal, and 2) You don't have to spend $3500 to get this done, it can easily be done on your own.

People like you WANT this to work, you NEED this to work. You go to bed at night and lay there thinking "My God, I could have my house paid for in 8.5 years". The people selling this ARE PREYING ON YOUR EMOTIONS, JORSAK. They are counting on the fact that you're not going to understand how it works but will make the decision to buy it based on your emotions.

kamalktk said: I found these guys via a google search where they are a sponsored link when you search for United First Financial (we're up to the second link, with UFF being first). It appears to be the exact same thing as UFF, but costs $99 (you can download it for free, I assume there is some kind of shareware license or something).
http://www.maxmyequity.com/index.php

Also, welcome BradPeterson.

Well, if you wanted to pay off your mortgage early, and you needed someone to hold your hand while doing it, I'd much rather see someone spend the $99 for this than the $3500 for the MMA software.

Good find, kamal

Yes, welcome to BradPeterson

kamalktk said: I found these guys via a google search where they are a sponsored link when you search for United First Financial (we're up to the second link, with UFF being first). It appears to be the exact same thing as UFF, but costs $99 (you can download it for free, I assume there is some kind of shareware license or something).
http://www.maxmyequity.com/index.php

Also, welcome BradPeterson.
hate to quote myself, but since I'm loathe to try something I found via google sponsored link, maybe someone out there who has access to a virtual machine for security can give it a shot.