JOrask - all you need to know is here. Its a loser by at least $6500

ellory said:JOrsak said:

"How long does MMA say it will take utnil your mortgae is paid off?"
8.2 years
"What was the amount you owed on your mortgage when you began this program?"
$138,297.71
"What is the total amount of interest you will pay by using this program?"
$40,132.65
"What is the interest rate of your mortgage?"
6%

Per this prepayment calculator with these inputs

For the values you entered:

* Principal= $138297
* Interest Rate= 6%
* Amortization Period= 8.2 years
* Starting month= Oct
* Starting year= 2007
* Monthly Pre-payment= $0
* Annual Pre-payment= $ 0.00

This is the result
Where the final summary is

* Monthly Payment: $ 1782.88
* Total Interest:$ 37138.19(No pre-payment)
* Average Interest Each Month: $ 377.43

Further, if you took the $3500 and dropped that on the mortgage, and then just followed through with everything else the same

Total Interest:$ 34952.58

BradPeterson said:JOrsak said:Nope. I was searching info on th eproduct and this was teh first link that came up.

The first/second for searches of UFF used to be to scam.com. That site went down recently. UFF's scam of a product was thrashed pretty throughly over there. I see it's getting a similar thrashing here.

It's too bad scam.com went down though. Recently, we were able to get a UFF agent to admit the MMA software DOES NOT BEAT the traditional approach of applying all extra money towards the mortgage. He even ran his numbers for us, and we saw UFF was taking months longer every time. But he was happy selling his $3500 product, because he said it helps convince people to pay all their extra money towards a mortgage better than any other product he knows.Thanks for the post. I have been able to see the scam.com posts via google cache.

Now that FW is close to the top of the United First Financial / Money Merge Account google searches, we are going to see a growing number of scamees looking for facts - and hucksters looking to fast talk them

WalStMonky said:What I meant to say is that your loan is not a constant 6% it is front loaded. You do not pay 6% day to day and year by year. Of your $1,000 payment in year one $800 + is going to principle. The EFFECTIVE interest rate is thus MUCH higher.

It's simply amazing people keep falling for the above nonsense. The 'effective' rate on your mortgage is indeed your APR. there is no 'front loaded' or 'amortized' interest. You pay interest on your currently outstanding balance at your APR...simple as that. If you owe 100k this month and your rate is 6% your intertest this month will be $500. If you make a 99k payment to principle to make your balance 1k next month your interest on that will be $5. Maybe if people didn't have this misperception of mortgages being complicated scams like UFF wouldn't get off the ground.

You know what is really sad to me about this site is that for a group of people who "Seem" as though they want to "help" people, it is difficult to get past ego, arrogance, and outright general rudeness. As I stated before...

If you guys have any REAL intention other than self-aggrandizement, then try to have an attitude here that reflects that. You will manage to "help" a lot more people.

As for your above statement, are you telling me that you believe mortgage interest is not front loaded? Are you telling me that you believe if I sold my house in year 1 that it would appear that I had paid down my house by 1 year of payments with only 6% interest taken from those payments and all teh rest was applied to principle?

Please explain.

kamalktk said:JOrsak said: You know what is really sad to me about this site is that for a group of people who "Seem" as though they want to "help" people....
It's called tough love.

JOrsak said:
As for your above statement, are you telling me that you believe mortgage interest is not front loaded? Are you telling me that you believe if I sold my house in year 1 that it would appear that I had paid down my house by 1 year of payments with only 6% interest taken from those payments and all the rest was applied to principle?

Please explain.
You do not understand amortized payment, linked here. A mortgage loan is simple interest. When you take a 30 year fixed mortgage, you agree to pay it on a 30 year amortization schedule. There is no secret and the banks are not messing with you.

Oh... I think I do understand it well enough to know that the "effect rate" of year one is a 590% interest. The "effective rate" of interest at year 10 is 43% and some change.

So, let's see if we can reach some mutual understanding here together.

"There is no secret and the banks are not messing with you." I know that. I also know that I am paying the interest upfront on an amortized schedule. The "effect" of paying the interest up front produces a situation where little principle is paid down early on. Thus, if I sold my house in year 1, it would not appear as though I had paid 6% interest. It would appear that I had paid 590% interest.

Do you agree or disagree?

Regardless of whether it is front loaded or not, I used your numbers, YOUR NUMBERS, to show that this will cost you $6,000 more. It simply does not matter if it is front loaded or if you want to call the effective rate 1000%, 580%, 6% or 0% it is just more. If you do it on your own, the amount of actual money that you earned that you will pay over those 8.4 years is ~$6,000 more.

JOrsak said:"There is no secret and the banks are not messing with you." I know that. I also know that I am paying the interest upfront on an amortized schedule. The "effect" of paying the interest up front produces a situation where little principle is paid down early on. Thus, if I sold my house in year 1, it would not appear as though I had paid 6% interest. It would appear that I had paid 590% interest.

Do you agree or disagree?

You are using funny terminology to explain a basic concept. But yes, the numbers show that most of your first monthly mortgage payments go mostly to interest.

But why bring that up? UFF doesn't shine here. This is where UFF fails. If you had $3500 and you were on your first year of your mortgage...put that $3500 towards the mortgage. Don't go $3500 in debt to by software that is $3450 overpriced.

UFF's snake-oil salesmen online presentation tries to give us the idea that UFF does even better. You borrow $5000 from your HELOC, and put that directly on your mortgage! Now you have saved tens of thousands in interest! Right?

Wrong. All that did is split the money you owe into two loans. You still owe the exact same amount. Except now, you almost certainly will have a higher interest rate involved. That's bad. If you run the numbers, you find that this $5000 shuffle will actualyl cost you MORE in interest in the long run that if you never did it at all.

But UFF then deceptively tries to imply that all future savings come from their "interest cancellation" system. But it uses mystical and advanced formulas to shuffle money around to squeeze every last penny in interest savings. No, that's also wrong. And a scam. The vast majority of savings (roughly 99%), come from putting all extra money towards the mortgage. The remaining 1% of savings comes from that "interest cancellation" system. I can't tell you the number of urban-legends I've heard about these "advanced" mathematical formulas. Richard Branson the billionaire invented them. University math professors couldn't understand how they worked but admitted they did. UFF can't tell us the formulas because it's their business secret, and they spent $2 million developing these advanced formulas and software. What lies. There is no complicated math here. No secret. Just a bunch of uneducated UFF salesmen repeating lies they've heard from others.

So in the end, UFF is still the more complicated, riskier, overpriced, and complicated approach. It performs poorly at the beginning of a mortgage, as you have to take the money you could put towards a mortgage and instead put it towards a salesman. Most importantly, UFF is SLOWER. The alternative, better approach is to take the extra money you make every month, and put it towards the mortgage. That will beat out UFF by many, many months every time.

I found these guys via a google search where they are a sponsored link when you search for United First Financial (we're up to the second link, with UFF being first). It appears to be the exact same thing as UFF, but costs $99 (you can download it for free, I assume there is some kind of shareware license or something).
http://www.maxmyequity.com/index.php

Also, welcome BradPeterson.

EricGo07 said:JOrsak said:EricGo07 said:JOrsak said:So, in effect, I am managing to send in additional principle payment without coming out of my pocket to do it.No one disputes this. What you do not understand is that the amount of "interest cancellation" your salary float is generating is about $5 a month -- no where near the ~ $17/month the $3500 would have "cancelled in interest" had you sent it to the home loan, rather than to the scam. AND, you would have the $3500.

I know... you are going to say: But the program says I'll be mortgage free years early !! That cannot possibly be from $5 a month. You are right; the years melt off as you send more money from your salary beyond the minimum payment due. If you doubt it, just watch what happens to your happy mortgage payoff scenario when you tell the program you do not have discretionary income.

Sorry, laddie. You have been scammed, and only you and confuseU do not know it. Actually, only you do not know it. ConfuseU thinks a $3500 program that exhorts him to not waste money, but send it to his mortgage is worth the cost of admission.


I finally found this comment. I looked for it for some time. I responded somewhere above but honestly it's getting hard to keep up with all of your responses as it seems there are 5-7 of you commenting.

Your math is pretty off on this example. As given in the example, the person would have a net monthly income of $5K. $5K sitting in the bank for 2weeks takes away FAR MORE than $5 in interest.

I don't know where you bank at but it sounds like I need to get an account there because you have some MAJOR low interest.$5000 for two weeks is more money than most people who fall for this scam have, but sure, lets use this number.

Using a home mortgage loan of 6% for our example ..

It generates 5000*.06/26 = $11.54 a month of "interest cancellation"
But the $3500 you are thinking of paying for the scam COSTS you 3500*.06/12 = $17.5 a month of "interest cancellation" -- AND you are down $3500.

Side comment: you are getting snide remarks mostly because your questions and statements have been refuted ad nauseum multiple times in the past 60 pages of this thread. Since you don't have the civility to read the thread FIRST, you can hardly expect patience.Unfortunately I cannot edit my posts because this thread in under moderation, but I should have added one more comment:

I'm happy to pursue this line of reasoning with you, because it is enough to show the cost of the scam is higher than any possible returns, but do keep in mind that the **fantastic** return of $11.54 a month from the salary float is quite a bit more than you will see in practice, because it ignores the cost of the HELOC interest incurred to receive it.

kamalktk said:I found these guys via a google search where they are a sponsored link when you search for United First Financial (we're up to the second link, with UFF being first). It appears to be the exact same thing as UFF, but costs $99 (you can download it for free, I assume there is some kind of shareware license or something).
http://www.maxmyequity.com/index.phpNice Link !

I took this from their FAQ:
7) I don’t have positive cash flow, I spend more than what I earn? Will MaxMyEquity work for me?

No. MaxMyEquity is not a cure for those with a negative cash flow. Once you control your spending, therefore spending less than what you earn, then MaxMyEquity would work perfectly for you.

Thanks all for the welcome.

I'm here to hopefully help others who come here from a Google search see that the Money Merge Account system isn't what most salesman claim it to be.

About a month ago, I received a letter in the mail form a local company (their business headquarters was only about 10 miles from UFF's headquarters) who gave some amazing financial numbers. They promised me an "effective interest rate" of 1 or 2 percent. So I researched, and researched. I watched UFF's online presentation video a few times. Then ran my own spreadsheets (I even re-derived the monthly mortgage payment formula just to re-educate myself). I read posts at scam.com discussing it I'll be honest, for the first couple of days, I couldn't figure out how it worked.

Then it finally hit me. It's just a more complex form of putting all extra money towards a mortgage. That's it. There is no complicate math. No magic hidden formulas. No secret new algorithm. The math once you understand what's going on is surprisingly simple. So that meant the UFF system is riskier (taking out a HELOC when you don't need to), more complicated (it requires more variables than better approaches), scammy ($3500 for software is way too much), and most importantly, slower (many, many months slower to be exact).

After I made some posts on scam.com explaining this, I began to realize almost all UFF agents don't realize how the MMA works. Most were unknowingly telling lies. But they'd flood the forum repeatedly with misleading statement after misleading statement. So now I do my part to help clarify facts so that others won't have to go through all the research that I did.