United First Financial - Looking for the truth

ellory said: By the way, could someone explain to me why an aeronautical engineer is the paragon of financial acumen?
It's like an electronical engineer, they're really, really smart.

kenmoreland said: kenmoreland said: According to Google maps, there is a corner of Promised Land Ave and American Pride St.
From 1st Lady Ave, you take a right on Forefather's St, and then right on Promised Land Ave.

If you reach Proud Patriot St, you have gone too far.I'm sold then! I want to live there too. I am sending my $3500 check so they can UFF me first thing in the morning

abwhitney said: i've been copying my FIL but as it's end of quarter, he's a bit busy with the 2nd quarter report due.

abwhitney, its a week now. still waiting. Quarter is over. When can we expect you back with your FIL National Bank CFO's analysis?

Frankly I'm a little disappointed. I thought this might have been the first "advocate" of U1st to stay around more than two days. They all promise to come back, but once we put the light on them , they scurry away like roaches.

Kiplinger's says: "Don't Fall for UFirst"

Long awaited... and the news for U1st is not good. The news for us? Exactly the points we have made. And I'll take a Kiplinger's review, any day, over the infomercial trade mags that UFF has issue them "awards"

Don't Fall for This Mortgage Pitch
Prepay your home loan yourself and skip the $3,500 software fee.
By Pat Mertz Esswein, Associate Editor
From Kiplinger's Personal Finance magazine, May 2008

You may have received e-mails touting a system that promises to help you pay off your mortgage early. This mortgage-acceleration package -- which includes a software program -- relies heavily on the use of a home-equity line of credit. The software analyzes your financial data to reveal when and how much extra you should prepay.

The Money Merge Account system, sold by United First Financial, costs $3,500. For the price, you may also receive a recruiting pitch. United First is a multilevel marketer that encourages salespeople to bring others aboard, passing the profit up the food chain.

With or without expensive software, the fact is that the more discretionary income you can commit to prepayment, the quicker the mortgage becomes history. We suggest you keep your $3,500 and do it yourself without having to fend off a pushy salesperson.

For example, divide your monthly payment by 12 and pay that much extra each month. Doing so would allow a homeowner with a $230,000 mortgage at 6% to cut about 5.5 years off a 30-year mortgage (see our How Advantageous are Extra Payments? calculator).

Is prepaying your mortgage even a good idea? That depends on whether you have better things to do with spare cash. You could create a reserve fund so that you don't have to borrow in an emergency or stash the money in a tax-deferred college- or retirement-savings account.

Salespeople challenge whether you'll follow through on your own -- as if spending $3,500 for software will ensure that you'll use it. Tell that to couch potatoes whose high-end exercise equipment gathers dust.

You guys crack me up, what a bunch of paranoid, self boasting individuals, I guess the news channel is in on this scam too right? It's a conspiracy right, I feel sorry for your wives, If you have one.

jeckyllisland said: You guys crack me up, what a bunch of paranoid, self boasting individuals, I guess the news channel is in on this scam too right? It's a conspiracy right, I feel sorry for your wives, If you have one.

That's a great advertisement for UFF. Did you really take the time to sign up for FW to post that? I hope you come back with something more substantial, because it is always entertaining to read what the shills say.

ellory said: abwhitney said: i've been copying my FIL but as it's end of quarter, he's a bit busy with the 2nd quarter report due.

abwhitney, its a week now. still waiting. Quarter is over. When can we expect you back with your FIL National Bank CFO's analysis?

Frankly I'm a little disappointed. I thought this might have been the first "advocate" of U1st to stay around more than two days. They all promise to come back, but once we put the light on them , they scurry away like roaches.

Just a reminder that abwhitney was going to come back with an analysis from his "accountant" after April 15th. And, of course, no sign of the CFO FIL

ellory said: Any one want to view these videos and do a synopsis? As I pay for my bandwidth usage, I am not going to waste it on the U1st propaganda, but it would be useful what the "candid interview" with the founders reveals

I'd rather pay for your bandwidth than lose brain cells to UFF re-education, but I'll try to make it through one of them tonight.

LisaS said: The shills are touting their scam on AM 'talk' (talk = pay for time) radio...much like television infomercials...

I'm not surprised. They have to find a new medium where they don't run into opposition. Radio is a one-way form of communication, so we can't refute the ridiculous claims on radio.

That said, anyone with Internet access should at least Google them before committing, and I'd hazard to guess they lose a lot of sales with those searches. UFF agents must hate the thought of potential clients going home to "sleep on it" and discovering this forum or others. I can envision a lot of hard sales tactics being employed to close deals on the spot.

I don't think business is good for these people. UFF agent Mark Goldsmith of Oceanside, CA flipped out when I pointed out some truths to him. He PM'ed me: "...and my brother who works for the FBI,we will have a little fun with your ip address."

These are not the words of a schill whose business is booming. They're frustrated with us, and they can't refute the obvious fact that the MMA software is mostly useless. But at least they have relatives in the FBI on their side.

calvinandhobbes said: 2. if it were true, an FBI agent messing with someone for personal gain is an invitation for criminal charges, not to mention the biggest potential windfall you will ever see.

Nah, I'm Canadian. I don't go around suing people who say stupid things to me. Besides, Mark confided in me that he is deep in debt, and doesn't have a lot of money coming in. He is actually a pretty tragic figure. This was part of his message to me:

Mark Goldsmith said: I have a $500,000 home how much money would i need to send monthly to pay it off in 12 years with an interest rate of 8.2% 30 year neg am loan???

THAT, is not a good mortgage to be in.

I replied:

cphansen said: I'll assume you mean $500,000 mortgage. Amortized over 30 years, the base monthly payment is $3,738.78. To pay it off in 12 years, you need to send an additional $1730 every month.

He came back:

Mark Goldsmith said: I don't have 1730.00 to send every month. Have a good day.

Earlier in the video comments, he wrote:

Mark Goldsmith said: Why would i wasn't a 6% mortgage it's still going to be for 30 years, I'm not going to refi, trust me i'll have it paid in 8.2 years, using the banks money and not my own. Good luck to you.

So, Mark is deep in debt, and thinks he has found a magic pill. He's either paying 8.2%, or paying off the loan in 8.2 years. He can't do math (which explains why he's so deep in debt and accruing interest charges faster than he can pay) and is extremely defensive. He may honestly believe that the MMA will help him pay off his mortgage in 8.2 or 12 years.

What I can forget, and I shouldn't, is that there are a lot of very desperate people out there. The foreclosure numbers are rising, and each "number" is actually a person. Scary stuff. People are very willing to suspend disbelief in those circumstances. UFF looks like a life preserver to them. It's actually a rock.

ellory said: Some of you already know this. UFirst has competitors who are just as bad. Here's one. HEAPLAN. Sets you back $1000.

At $1000 is it bargain? Nope. Still a scam. DIY still wins.

Puahaha, one of their selling points is that they're NOT UFF.

We're not UFF

How many more of these scams are they? And frankly HEAP makes a poor case of why anyone should spend $1000. When $60 Quicken does far more
Equity Acceleration Plans to Watch Out For

As indicated in other parts of this web-site, the H.E.A.P™ concept is not a new one, it’s just one that is not well known. It is starting to become more well known by “vendors” pitching plans that we believe are NOT client focused and instead are advisor focused.

An advisor focused plan is one that tries to maximize dollars an advisor can make from a client that doesn’t know any better.

Look at the following e-mail from an advisor looking at the H.E.A.P™ vs. one of the advisor friendly programs.

“Yes I would like to find out more (about H.E.A.P™) but to be honest if I could make a $2250 commission vs. only $1000 …… then I would stick with this one from ……..”

The name of the company has been omitted as has the name of the advisor who wrote the e-mail.

Does any more need to be said? Some advisors and marketing firms have maximum profit as a goal vs. client first advice that will help advisors keep their clients for the long haul.

1) Watch out for any program that costs $3,500.

We have to give them their due, they have a really slick marketing package and a very powerful sales pitch. Their program is sold on the benefit to the consumer (which is a savings of $100,000 plus for most) and for that a cost of $3,500 is reasonable. The firm will even let you finance the $3,500 (how nice of them).

As you will learn if you chose to learn about H.E.A.P™, the program is really not that difficult and to charge $3,500 for the advice and accompanying software in our opinion is an outrage (and really was part of the motivation to create H.E.A.P™).

Part of the sales pitch is a wonderful software package a consumer is provided with. It could be the best software in the world, but it’s not worth $3,500 for the simple reason that you don’t even need software to implement H.E.A.P™ or any other similar program. We believe most consumers will want the H.E.A.P™ software to help them budget the program, but the first year cost is $1,000 or less not $3,500.

If you run into this program and want to discuss it with a H.E.A.P™ trained advisor, please e-mail info@heaplan.com and someone will contact you.

2) Stay away from any program that REQUIRES you to refinance your primary mortgage.

H.E.A.P™ or any similar type of acceleration program DOES NOT require you to refinance in order to take advantage of the benefits.

Many people refinanced a few years ago when interest rates were at an all time low and still have 25+ years left on their mortgages. If the rates on those loans are very low, why would anyone want to refinance those?

The sale’s pitch is that you MUST refinance so you can take advantage of an acceleration program to pay off the debt early. That is not true.

Then the programs out there force clients to refinance into a variable loan rate typically tied to the Prime interest rate. Today Prime is over 8% and some of the programs have Prime + loans.

To show you the power of H.E.A.P™, the plan would still work to pay off your home’s debt 10+ years early even if you went from a 6% loan to an 8%+ loan. Having said that, there is NO reason to refinance your current mortgage except…….except that if you don’t refinance your mortgage an advisor then makes no money on a new mortgage sale.

Again, like the $3,500 program, the average consumer has never heard of any of these plans that REQUIRE you to refinance your entire mortgage to take advantage of the acceleration and therefore, when the consumer is told they have to refinance even into a program tied to a Prime rate that floats, the consumer does it because they don’t know any better.

Don’t do it. Do not get rid of your mortgage and refinance into a loan with a higher rate especially if it floats (is not locked). You don’t have to do it order to use H.E.A.P™.

Frankly, the only two things they need to the above, though to make it accurate are to correct the spelling of "advisor" (you would think for $1000 per victim they could at least run spell check) and add number 3

3. Don't buy HEAP

I have a friend who was hit up by a UFF sales woman. I told her it seemed sketchy to me and then found these threads and few other forums debating UFF. I recommended she not do it but now that I have read a little on this I am curious about the MMA concept. It seems like it's more than just prepaying your mortgage. Anyone want to give me a simplified rundown or have a link that explains it? I found this site: http://www.doimma.com/, but realized it is a one page site that is promoting UFF. They're trying to disguise it as a non-biased review, but ultimately it's a flyer for UFF. I did a whois on the domain owner and it's conveniently registered by proxy so you don't know who owns it. I'm sure it's run by some UFF affiliate or agent.

Currently, my wife and I have a 140k loan at 5.75% interest with a biweekly payment. We round our payment up, so I think we pay around $40 extra per payment. My goal is to find if I should be doing this differently. Should I investigate the MMA concept, or would I get almost as good of a financial gain by just upping my extra to say $100 every payment, or $200 extra per month.

Any help or tips for a newbie welcomed. And don't worry, I have no plans to use UFF.

NearlyBroke, read the first page of each of the three or so threads on UFF in this forum. After doing so, if you have a specific question not yet answered on those three pages, I'll try to answer it.

Yep, everything here has been covered to death. The UFF agents are rehashing the same points, trying to wear down those who have already proven that (a) the MMA is not optimal, (b) you can achieve better results with a simple DIY approach.

Anyone who reads the Quick Summary on the first page of this thread, and even skims through the thread, will have answered for themselves the questions you have asked. UFF agents have been known to pass themselves off as interested third parties, only to "discover" the MMA is the best thing since sliced bread. That's why we're guarded - I don't believe any objective 3rd party who reads a page of this thread would describe it as a "debate", when some UFF agents themselves have to admit that the MMA is not optimal, but is simply a $3500 behaviour tool.

Those of us who have put time in to debunking the MMA don't see any income from our efforts - just personal satisfaction from steering perfect strangers away from a poor financial choice. UFF agents, at this point, are just trying to wear us down. Not by the quality of their replies, but by sheer volume.

Edit: Yes, the Chris Butterworth correspondence is very telling. I've been challenging any UFF agent to compare detailed monthly results for a few months now, and I've had no takers. Some agents told me they can't simulate the monthly money movements. If so, how can they have so much faith that the MMA works as advertised? Only one UFF agent even recently decided to send me a UFF report on a client (names removed) and suggested the DIY approach couldn't beat the MMA. In 5 minutes, I prepared a plan to beat the MMA by 3 months, using the same assets, liabilities, and income. Now I'm being told that I didn't win the challenge because my plan of fiscal responsibility isn't "realistic". By that measure, the MMA isn't realistic, either. UFF agents have a tremendous amount of faith in the product, where "faith" is defined as "belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence."

cp, I understand why you're guarded and hope I was being too dense when I asked obvious questions. Hopefully the link I gave and Australian court action reference will help your cause.

nearlybroke said: btuttle, I actually found we have a single payment. For some reason I thought it was biweekly, but my wife reminded me we decided against that because the bank was going to charge us more to set it up that way. But we are prepaying a good amount over our mortgage each month so I think I am going to keep our payments the same.

It's interesting to learn about the small differences between mortgages in Canada and the States (OK, maybe "interesting" isn't the right word)

When I first got involved in this UFF discussion, I wondered why bi-weekly payments were looked down upon. My mortgage used to be paid in bi-weekly installments, and there is a small benefit to that plan. But it seems many American banks charge to set up the payments that way. There was no charge for this at my Canadian bank.

Exactly right, although the specific date may vary for each person.

With over thirty years experience in the insurance and investment business, I agree there is much confusion in regards to the simple analysis and the real software. Most have evidently only investigated the simple spreadsheet analysis which shows extra discretionary income going into the system and canceling out interest. On the surface, by just looking at an analysis, I would tend to agree that it doesn't make much sense to spend $3500 to tell me extra payments of ??? each month will pay off my mortgage quicker.. That is where most stop their investigation. They do not investigate the real software and what it really accomplishes.
I will cut to the chase for everyone:
1. The analysis is a simple spreadsheet which really just takes the discretionary money each month and applies it to the mortgage. It does not take into account any floating of money and the "interest cancellation effect of depositing your income into a line of credit. (By the way, this product works with HELOCS, lines of credit, and even credit cards.) It works with most "open ended" financing instruments. This analysis can be matched with any free internet mortgage accelerator calculator.

The Projection of future performance of any product (insurance, investments, etc.) is just that, a projection. The assumption of investments, banking, and insurance industry product proposals assume that life remains the same for the next 5, 10, or 15 years. I think it is safe to assume that our financial life changes on a DAILY BASIS. Our discretionary income changes each month. Even if income stays the same, cost of living and daily changes in life affects our net monies available. The Money Merge Analysis and all other projections from investments and insurance products are really just a photograph of the day it was completed. All these products assume that life remains the same for the term of the projection. This has been industry standard for as long as I can remember. We all know life changes daily!

2. The Money Merge Account Software is much more than a mortgage accelerator. The software is really a debt management tool. Other software like Quicken, Money, Quick Books, and others bring the past up to the present. The Money Merge Account software takes you from the present to the future, all by the simple click of the mouse.

3. Here are some examples of what a person can expect from the software:
a. If I have a change in income (increase or decrease) – know the exact effect on my financial future.
b. If I have small or large changes in my budget – learn what impact that has on my financial future.
c. “What If” Scenarios – If I deposit more money into the lines of credit, learn how my future is affected
d. “What If” Scenarios – If I want to purchase an item or have to pay something on an emergency basis, instantaneously know the “True Cost” of the proposed spending and how it will affect my financial future.
e. Have the ability to plan into the future based upon personal goals and family desires.
f. The software will always keep me informed of the month and year I could be out of debt based on how life travels.
G. The affect of extra principle payments and how that accelerates the principle portion of the monthly payment on the closed end loan (1st Mortgage)
H. The affect of borrowing the banks money at a low net rate of interest

Here is a detailed example: Let’s say that an income earner loses a job. The family is upside down by 1000 per month to break even on their bills. Under normal circumstances, a great amount of stress is created because of the UNKNOWN IMPACT of how the family will survive through the ordeal. The Money Merge Account will give them the information of the truth right away. I have experienced that knowing the truth is easier to accept that the unknown. "Know the truth and the truth will set you free." The unknown creates great stress. The Money Merge Account will tell them when they will be out of money based upon the current lifestyle and spending habits. They can then take that current situation to see how additional changes in the monthly budget and what happens when another job is obtained down the road. This can all be accomplished instantaneously by the click of the mouse. There is nothing else in the world that will do this. This places the planning power in the hands of the consumer. They say the #1 reason for divorce ismoney; #2 reason is stress (probably from #1). I cannot help but think that if those people would have the instant knowledge of how their current financial decisions and circumstances affect their financial future, the truth, maybe stress levels would drop to acceptable levels and there would be less divorce.

The Money Merge Account is a great day to day educational tool. As stated in other opinions, a majority of Americans are not schooled in finances, compound interest, budgeting, and the effects of tax write-offs. Frankly, there are many out there who think they are, but in fact, do not have a clue. The Money Merge Account continues to educate the consumer by giving instant knowledge of how today’s financial decisions, big and small, affects their financial tomorrows. It helps them become more accountable for our financial decisions by giving them knowledge. In a world bombarded with buy now and pay later mentality, this tool is needed to help the consumer combat the effects of wrong decisions and impulse buying. The Money Merge account Software gives the user the ability to make informed and educated financial decisions on a regular basis.

In closing, this really is: A “One of a Kind” financial tool to help individuals and businesses manage their debt in order to pay the least amount of interest on all of their debt instruments; while at the same time giving instant knowledge to make daily financial decisions based on how those decisions affect their financial future…. ALL INSTANTANEOUSLY and by the simple click of the mouse.
THIS IS THE REAL TRUTH OF THE MONEY MERGE ACCOUNT

"That's lot of writing that said almost nothing". Nice comeback!

What I like about people like you is that when the truth is told, you have nothing of substance to say. You want to side step this issue and make attacks like "a bad web site". I did not know that a one page calender qualified as a true web site.

If you want to make a point, I challenge you to answer each section of my statements with something of substance that will benefit everyone. I challenged Chris Buttersworth a few months ago and he did not accept my challenge.