If there is anything out there that can accomplish what the Money Merge Account does, show me...I know you can't because there is nothing in the world like it.
Unsubstantiated attacks show one thing, "I thought you were stupid, but then you opened your mouth and removed all doubt"
This is "disruptive technology". It takes a while for acceptance. I compare it to the same way it took time for PVC to replace cast iron. It takes time to shift the acceptance of someting that is new and different, away from the status quo. If all of us stayed tunnel visioned, we would be in sad shape as a country.
JamesHughbanks said: If there is anything out there that can accomplish what the Money Merge Account does, show me...I know you can't because there is nothing in the world like it.
Unsubstantiated attacks show one thing, "I thought you were stupid, but then you opened your mouth and removed all doubt"
This is "disruptive technology". It takes a while for acceptance. I compare it to the same way it took time for PVC to replace cast iron. It takes time to shift the acceptance of someting that is new and different, away from the status quo. If all of us stayed tunnel visioned, we would be in sad shape as a country.
Okay cut to the chase, how can MMA save someone more money than a simple prepayment of disposable income? Show all math.
I refer you to my long post that explains the workings of the software and what it can accomplish. It is not just about an extra principle payment to the mortgage. Math is Math. We all know if I make a extra principle payment on a closed end loan, it is going to re-calculate the amortization schedule to reduce interest and the number of payment. (It works the same no matter where that extra money comes from.) The real question should be, How can I match all the instant benefits of the knowledge that the Money Merge Account gives me to help me plan my future and know the exact future ramifications of numerous financial changes I encounter today and how they affect my life so I can make the best financial decision possible?
JamesHughbanks said: If you want to make a point, I challenge you to answer each section of my statements with something of substance that will benefit everyone.how about this for a challenge that will prove your software once and for all (and we know you won't touch this with a 10' pole).
We challenge you to use your software to payoff a simple mortgage faster than prepayments:
$200k, 6%, 30 year mortgage, minimum payment due on the 1st $5k income, paid semi-monthly (15th and 30th of every month) $2k non-mortgage expenses, all paid by credit card, due on the 28th $5k savings sitting in a 3% checking account HELOC ($0 balance for prepayer, $3500 balance for you), 7%
you show us the money movements for this incredibly simple case we show you a more efficient MMA approach than the UFF offers, AND we show you simple prepayments that beat both.
care to take our challenge?
I'm guessing no, just like every other UFF agent out there.
We know your product is inefficient. You know your product is inefficient. We know that you know your product is inefficient.
JamesHughbanks said: How can I match all the instant benefits of the knowledge that the Money Merge Account gives me to help me plan my future and know the exact future ramifications of numerous financial changes I encounter today and how they affect my life so I can make the best financial decision possible?um, a simple amortization schedule will show the instantaneous changes to prepayments, budget, etc. Heck, a free web calculator will do just as much. Only difference is free web calculators don't lie to me to take $3500 plus interest from me.
can you guys at least make up some new lies so we don't have to type the same thing? It's more fun to have to actually think to disprove UFF scum.
JamesHughbanks said: This is "disruptive technology". It takes a while for acceptance. I compare it to the same way it took time for PVC to replace cast iron. It takes time to shift the acceptance of someting that is new and different, away from the status quo. If all of us stayed tunnel visioned, we would be in sad shape as a country. This is the one thing I agree with. The "technology" disrupts the relationship between a financial dip$hit and his $3500. That is all.
If I am not mistaken, your post lists the 2 greatest strengths of the UFF/MMA software as: 1. Mortgage acceleration/projection. This is the main selling point: "Pay your mortgage sooner." "Given your current scenario, if you do this...you will pay off your loan in X years." This is also the main focus of this thread. 2. Real-time financial status based on actual data vs. what was projected. "What if" scenarios, etc.
For the sake of this discussion, let's concentrate on #1. Here are 3 screenshots of an MMA analysis that was done for Peter. If you do not see all 3 screenshots, let us know so someone can re-upload. If you're the UFF salesman and using the screenshots, explain to Peter how he will save using the MMA process in simple steps like... 1. This is his current loan status. These are his assets. Open up an MMA account with initial balance of... 2. This is his total monthly salary. These are his expenses. He has discretionary income of... 3. Month 1, pay this amount to this, pay this amount to this. For the purposes of the "salary float", you can assume full float meaning he gets paid at the 1st of the month and expenses are all due at the last day of the month. Or use whatever scenario is used by the MMA software. 4. Month 2, pay this amount to this, pay this amount to this. 5. At the end of 1 year, the balance of his loans are... and he saved x interest. We can then repeat the process until the loans are paid off in X years as shown by page 2 of the screenshots.
When we're clear on #1 and those in this thread are able to compare the same scenario without the software, we can then talk about strength #2. If there are strengths #3 and #4, we can talk about that too.
2. The Money Merge Account Software is much more than a mortgage accelerator. The software is really a debt management tool. Other software like Quicken, Money, Quick Books, and others bring the past up to the present. The Money Merge Account software takes you from the present to the future, all by the simple click of the mouse.
--Snip--
In closing, this really is: A “One of a Kind” financial tool to help individuals and businesses manage their debt in order to pay the least amount of interest on all of their debt instruments; while at the same time giving instant knowledge to make daily financial decisions based on how those decisions affect their financial future…. ALL INSTANTANEOUSLY and by the simple click of the mouse. THIS IS THE REAL TRUTH OF THE MONEY MERGE ACCOUNT
In your point 2, you say the "software takes you from the present to the future, all by the simple click of the mouse." The thing I like about Quicken is that it really is just a few mouse clicks to download my bank and brokerage data. How many mouse clicks does it take to get the user's data into your software?
I do like your closing statement.For some reason, it reminded me of a song from "The Wizard of Oz:"
Follow the Yellow Brick Road. Follow the Yellow Brick Road. Follow, follow, follow, follow, Follow the Yellow Brick Road. Follow the Yellow Brick, Follow the Yellow Brick, Follow the Yellow Brick Road.
We're off to see the Wizard, The Wonderful Wizard of Oz. You'll find he is a whiz of a Wiz! If ever a Wiz! there was. If ever oh ever a Wiz! there was The Wizard of Oz is one becoz, Becoz, becoz, becoz, becoz, becoz. Becoz of the wonderful things he does.
Your arguments are just an exercise in moving the goalposts to an area you hope has not been discredited *too* much. I'm amused by your attempts to brush aside the initial analysis as inadequate, but then you make no effort to show how much actual money will be saved with salary float. Arithmetic too difficult for you, or are you avoiding admitting that the advantage is pennies ?
UFF boasts about early payoff, but we all know (except the UFF advert, and victims who have been sucked into the scam), that this is simply prepayment starting $3500 in the hole. Shill # 2 - 43 boast that the scheme encourages financial discipline. Obviously better discipline is saving $3500. Now you come along and tout the what-if spreadsheet qualities of the scam. I say spend $10 on a calculator if you have troube performing division with a pencil and paper. As for periods of unemployment, I'll take back my $3500, thank you very much. I'll need it to live on while looking for work. I wouldn't require a SS to tell me what my cash flow is.
Care to explain why UFF spends so much effort promoting the early payoff angle of the scam that you (rightly) call bogus, while UFF does not spend even one sentence promoting the SS qualities of the scheme ? I'll tell you why: Even UFF is not that stupid. People buy the scam because they think it conjures money out of thin air; even the dumbest victim will not pay $3500 for a crappy SS.
I've noticed people like you coming out of woodwork like termites. I suspect it is an unfortunate consequence of the financial industry's 'disruption'.
We challenge you to use your software to payoff a simple mortgage faster than prepayments:
$200k, 6%, 30 year mortgage, minimum payment due on the 1st $5k income, paid semi-monthly (15th and 30th of every month) $2k non-mortgage expenses, all paid by credit card, due on the 28th $5k savings sitting in a 3% checking account HELOC ($0 balance for prepayer, $3500 balance for you), 7%
you show us the money movements for this incredibly simple case we show you a more efficient MMA approach than the UFF offers, AND we show you simple prepayments that beat both.
care to take our challenge?
I'm guessing no, just like every other UFF agent out there.
We know your product is inefficient. You know your product is inefficient. We know that you know your product is inefficient.
TO ALL WHO WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE TRUTH TO ALL WHO WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE TRUTH
I will accept your challenge but under different terms. I also am going to add a number of real life scenarios to your mix throughout the next few years like "Real Life" happens. NOTHING STYS STATUS QUO! Your challenge will be to state when the person will be out of debt with each changed occurrence. You will also be requested to determine true cost of certain scenarios.
Since the Money Merge Software is a patented product and private, you will need to be the one to show your calculations since you will be completing this challenge with free services of your choice. You will also need to show the math level necessary to accomplish this and the tools you used (you know this is a product for the public). You will also be required to keep the time on how long it took for you to make the calculations. Time is money isn't it? There will be a time limit for your challenge. Tell me how much time you need. I only will need about 30 minutes to do the live demonstration with all the changes that will be thrown in over and above your base line scenario.
If you accept this counter-challenge (which is much more exciting than yours, then you will need to post your answers on this thread at a particular predetermined time. I will then post the time of a live Webinar (attendees up to 1000) that all of you will be able to see each transaction made and we will compare the results. I will post the exact requirements and scenarios on this thread after you formally accept this challenge
I promise that this will not be an easy task for you. You might want to get some help from the other "Money Merge Bashers" on this site. Are you willing to accept the challenge and make the commitment?
Or..... are all of you just blowing smoke up this thread
I agree the original terms are fine. (BUT THE WHOLE POINT IS THE ORIGINAL TERMS WILL NEVER REMAIN THE SAME....That is why we are going to add to the original terms a variety of "real life happens" scenarios....Just like life changes for each and every one of us. Is there a problem with that? If there is, you are blowing smoke with all of your comments and you need not waste everyones time.
Still waiting on acceptance to the challenge
Come on... it will be fun for all of us. Or are you afraid that this thread will die after the results?
Of course you see when a model is simplified enough to be understandable, its "magic" is identified as non-existent. Therefore, we will have to add a bunch of "real life happens" situations so we can confuse an easy-to-understand listing of month by month cash flow. I'm sure when he comes back, it will be just like 4 or 5 pages back: not answering questions asked and erecting confusion so that the resulting numbers are gibberish.
JamesHughbanks said: I agree the original terms are fine. (BUT THE WHOLE POINT IS THE ORIGINAL TERMS WILL NEVER REMAIN THE SAME....That is why we are going to add to the original terms a variety of "real life happens" scenarios....Just like life changes for each and every one of us. Is there a problem with that? If there is, you are blowing smoke with all of your comments and you need not waste everyones time.
Still waiting on acceptance to the challenge
Come on... it will be fun for all of us. Or are you afraid that this thread will die after the results?i knew you would NEVER accept the challenge as is. your crapware can't even come out ahead in the simplest of cases. sad, eh?
i will counter your counter:
Money movements and calcs and results are shown here, no one has to waste their time with your BS marketing circle jerks.
I'll generate random expenses and random changes to income. we'll agree to the range and excel will generate decades worth of income and expenses in 1 second.
how about that. I will never accept anything that involves your circle jerk (webinar).
we can pretty much show you the entire money movement scheme in an hour or so (total). only addition and subtraction involved to calculate payments.
JamesHughbanks said: Since the Money Merge Software is a patented product and private, you will need to be the one to show your calculations since you will be completing this challenge with free services of your choice. Its double-secret? You have math patented? And I should trust you because you say its good?.
Tell you what, show us the money-movements over time. Surely, if we are going to follow your plan, you have to show us that. (We did not ask for your secret "equations" - although we already know what they should be)
I am currently posting from Australia (which you UFFers credit as the source) where UFF like scams have been shutdown by the ACCC - the Austrlaian consumer / competition regulator.
I assume you are afraid to see the Money Merge Account in real time? That is why you don't want to do it on a Webinar. As far as your statement about your original offer. That will be our starting point. I also beleive you do not want me to set the perameters of the scenarios because you do not want to try and compute anything that your spreadsheedt will not perform. That might just embarrass you and put you in your place. Heck, we can do your spreadsheet on a webinar. That way, all of us can see your genius. By the way, are you offering your spreadsheet for free to everyone? How long will it take Tom, Dick, or Harry to set up their own spreadsheet? Do they know the formulas used? Is the gerneral public experienced enough in Excel to operate it correctly. Let's compare: MMA - know how to get on the internet and use a mouse and be able to type one key at a time....and Excel?
I see feathers ruffling but no guts to come to a full table
JamesHughbanks said: I also beleive you do not want me to set the perameters of the scenarios because you do not want to try and compute anything that your spreadsheedt will not perform.
JamesHughbanks said: I assume you are afraid to see the Money Merge Account in real time? That is why you don't want to do it on a Webinar. As far as your statement about your original offer. That will be our starting point. I also beleive you do not want me to set the perameters of the scenarios because you do not want to try and compute anything that your spreadsheedt will not perform. That might just embarrass you and put you in your place. Heck, we can do your spreadsheet on a webinar. That way, all of us can see your genius. By the way, are you offering your spreadsheet for free to everyone? How long will it take Tom, Dick, or Harry to set up their own spreadsheet? Do they know the formulas used? Is the gerneral public experienced enough in Excel to operate it correctly. Let's compare: MMA - know how to get on the internet and use a mouse and be able to type one key at a time....and Excel?
I see feathers ruffling but no guts to come to a full table
It really is simple with real life scenarios.
Income is $5,000 coming in. Expenses are $3,000 going out. Make sure you have $20,000-25,000 in an emergency fund. If you want to pay your house off (That being the goal) send the extra $2,000/month to your mortgage company. Oh you say "You get a raise 3 years into it.". Then send that extra amount towards your mortgage and an extra payment mortgage calculator can calculate it in seconds how much time is reduced by paying that extra amount. You say "You lose your job for 6 months." Doesn't matter. You have an emergency fund and worse case scenario you stop paying extra until you find a job.
those are simple scenarios and will be included. I will have mny more. I am still waiting for Mr Spreadsheet to accept a full blown extensive challenge. If I list all the scenarios before a accepted challenge, he may back out.
The difference is simple. calvinandhobbes posted a challenge, and asked you to give it a go. You're asking him to give something a go, then you'll come up with the challenge. It's a great method to back someone into a corner with unreasonable demands, then use their withdraw as proof that UFF is great, and that we're all retarded. I'm somewhat disturbed by your demand for you to set a time limit. I can only imagine what horrors you'll think up someone could go through during the 15 years he's prepaying a mortgage. In practice, these sudden changes are moderately rare. I'd be able to work on them at my leisure, as opposed to trying to solve a 15 year timeline of your choosing in whatever time frame you'll give me. The webinar seems to be a little pointless as well, as these real time revealings of numbers won't allow the opposite side to fact check the calculations. What's wrong with a monthly breakdown posted here for all to see? It's really easy to "quote" someone's post to preserve it.
So, post your counter offer, and eventually you and someone else will agree to terms for the "challenge."
JamesHughbanks said: I assume you are afraid to see the Money Merge Account in real time? That is why you don't want to do it on a Webinar.
When is the last time a peer reviewed scientific paper was presented on a webinar?
Please cut the crap and run the numbers of the scenario given by Calvin: Calvin said: We challenge you to use your software to payoff a simple mortgage faster than prepayments:
$200k, 6%, 30 year mortgage, minimum payment due on the 1st $5k income, paid semi-monthly (15th and 30th of every month) $2k non-mortgage expenses, all paid by credit card, due on the 28th $5k savings sitting in a 3% checking account HELOC ($0 balance for prepayer, $3500 balance for you), 7%
you show us the money movements for this incredibly simple case we show you a more efficient MMA approach than the UFF offers, AND we show you simple prepayments that beat both.
Calvin's simple scenario has these results with the software:
6.07 yrs pay off time running the numbers out for 6 months. If I was able to execute the transactions for the whole time period, the payoff period would be be 15 to 25% better than these.
This is my starting point. This is fine, but not reality. There is no way that the income and expenses would stay exactly the same for 6 years. Now it is my turn, show your numbers and calculations and then I will add the various "Real Life" scenarios so we can really see the dynamics of the real software, not just some stagnant assumption.
JamesHughbanks said: 6.07 yrs pay off time running the numbers out for 6 months. If I was able to execute the transactions for the whole time period, the payoff period would be be 15 to 25% better than these.
these appear to be mostly savings accounts, not checking accounts. I'm not going to split hairs on this though. Do you have a checking account that guarantees 7%?
JamesHughbanks said: one other question, what bank currently has a 3% checking account available?
This question proves that you haven't read through this thread - I've already posted a link to a very popular thread here on FWF that lists several rewards checking accounts that have no minimum balance requirements and 4-6% APR and they are available to everyone.
ETA - I was posting this while you posted. Now you're going to ask for a guaranteed 7% rate - what if someone pulls one up, then we're going to be looking for a guaranteed 8%?! How about working on your challenge instead of looking for more straw men.
JamesHughbanks said: these appear to be mostly savings accounts, not checking accounts. I'm not going to split hairs on this though. Do you have a checking account that guarantees 7%?
Some are checking, some money markets and lots of savings accounts. Doesn't matter since you only need to withdraw once a month to pay off a credit card.
I have delivered a payoff time of all the debt. It is time for your side to deliver the same thing back. After that we can show each other the numbers to verify accuracy. If I give you all of my monthly numbers, then all you have to do is attempt to match them. I laid my card on the table, it is your turn to perform your calculations whichever way you can. But don't ask for my help by disclosing all the numbers before I see your bottom line.
mhesidence said: JamesHughbanks said: 6.07 yrs pay off time running the numbers out for 6 months. If I was able to execute the transactions for the whole time period, the payoff period would be be 15 to 25% better than these.
Post the monthly balances.
He can't do that because that's the secret of the software - it tells you things that are untrue.
If you would have read a few post before, you would see that I have given you my number on Calvin's challenge. When am I going to get your sides number?
Now you are claiming the software lies. That is the most rediculous off the wall statement I have heard. Numbers are numbers, numbers don't lie. Agian, please deliver me your numbers so we can get on with this challenge.
JamesHughbanks said: what is the minimum balance required to maitain the 6%?
This has nothing to do with the questions at hand and you know it. Post the account and loan balances month by month for the challenged scenario for 4 or 5 months and your claim will be completely debunked.
You will not win here. Many have tried, none have succeeded. You see, on this board, people know arithmetic and can use spreadsheets and financial calculators.
JamesHughbanks said: If you would have read a few post before, you would see that I have given you my number on Calvin's challenge. When am I going to get your sides number?
I did read your post, but didn't you read the challenge? "you show us the money movements for this incredibly simple case" You failed to do that. Is it really that simple for someone to beat your numbers that you are afraid to show your actual numbers. Must be if you are too scared to show them.
JamesHughbanks said: If you would have read a few post before, you would see that I have given you my number on Calvin's challenge. When am I going to get your sides number?
The challenge was
you show us the money movements for this incredibly simple case we show you a more efficient MMA approach than the UFF offers, AND we show you simple prepayments that beat both.
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