anthonyu said: JamesHughbanks said: anthonyu said: JamesHughbanks, so can you paste the results from your software. When will the mortgage be paid off with all those scenarios. My spreadsheet says 3/2018.i requested a payoff after each event that lead up to your final figure All you have to do is delete all the data for each scenario starting from scenario 9 going up and clicking on Calculate after each delete.
If you look at the spreadsheet, I can show you the balance, interest and pre-payment amount EVERY MONTH for the duration of the mortgage for each of your scenario.
What's your result?
I'm off to do real work for the next few hours, but I'll be curious to find out how far off I am from your software's results. It will also be good if you can post the transactions as a result of each scenario, like I do with the spreadsheet. Maybe you'll convince me to spend $3500 for your software.
Here are the results on the only posted answers on the thread I could find
ANTHONU'S RESULTS MONEY MERGE ACCOUNT Scenario 6 BUY CAR 12K :10/2015 MMA 7.75 yrs 10/2014 save 12 mo Scenario 5 SEPND 23,350 : 4/2015 MMA 7.417 yrs 6/2014 true cost $27726 Scenario 4 DEPOSIT 3.5K SUM : 7/2015 MMA 6.75 Yrs 10/2013 saved - 21 mo Scenario 3 ADD-900 EX./8.5O : 9/2014 MMA 6.833 yrs 11/2013 saved - 10 mo Scenario 2 BUDGET DROP $150 : 5/2014 MMA 6.583 yrs 8/2013 saved - 9 mo Scenario 1 PAY RAISE $50 : 1/2014 MMA 5.917 yrs 10/2013 saved - 3 mo
IF YOU WANT TO SEE MY TRANSACTIONS IN THE SCENARIO, WE WILL ALL HAVE TO SCHEDULE A WEBINAR SO YOU CAN PHYSICALLY SEE ME PUT IN THE RELEVANT FIGURES INTO THE SOFTWARE. THE FINANCIAL DASHBOARD OF THE SOFTWARE WILL DEMONSTRATE THE ABOVE RESULTS AUTOMATICALLY. SORRY, THIS IS THE ONLY WAY I CAN PROVE IT. THE SOFTWARE IS DESIGNED TO BE SIMPLE ON THE SURFACE WITH ALL DETAILED DATA LIKE YOUR SPREADSHEET (AND MORE) UNDER THE COVER FOR SIMPLICITY OF USE BY EVERYONE WHO OWNS IT.
BY THE WAY HERE ARE THE ANSWERS TO 7,8,9
SCENARION #7------ LOSE JOB MMA OUT OF MONEY IN 40 MONTHS SCENARIO #8 ------ REDUCE BUDGET BY $500 MMA OUT OF MONEY IN 45 MONTHS SCENASRIO # 9 ---- FIND JOB FOR 25%/19MO.'S LATER MMA 10.5 YEARS 7/2017
REAL LIFE is where it is at...this is why the Money Merge Account is so popular with it's owners. It let's them deal with all the changes in their financial life without much work, knowledge, or even computer skills. They see the instant result of their choices and that helps them reach their goals and pay the least amount of interest on everything. If it is not for you, that is OK. It is not for everyone. I will be willing to bet that you would like it too if you gave it a chance...don't worry, i will not hold my breath. I cannot beleive how many pages of this thread has been dedicated to me...that means I must be making a difference... WE JUST SAVED 69 MONTHS ON THIS SCENARIO. THAT MEANS EACH TIME WE DID A TRANSACTION, WRONG CHOICES WERE MADE THAT WOULD MAKE YOU PAY MORE MONTHS BEFORE PAYOFF. THE LAST SCENARIO ALONE WAS 12 MONTH X 2991+ $35,892 DIFFERENCE MAYBE THAT $3500 IS LOOKING A LITTLE BETTER THAN EVER BEFORE. THERES THE ADDED BENEFIT OF ADDITIONAL INTEREST SAVED FROM PAYING OFF EARLY.
Have a great evening...I've spent WAAAAAAY to many hours with you all to get you to this point...but I beleive it has been worth every insult you could throw at me.
galabar said: EricGo07 said: galabar said: I'm not sure why I never saw this, but you are spot on. I wonder if we'll see lots of new HELOC-based scams intended to reduce that initial hit when the stupid person loses his/her money.Don't know about that, but honestly UFF went after the wrong clientele. They should have been pushing a salary/credit-card merge. Too late now of course, since getting a HELOC is not the trivial exercise it once was for the the kind of person these scams target.
Interesting point. I suppose the more variables that UFF can throw at its victims, the less likely they are to realize that they've been victimized. Also, the least painful way to extract the $3500 fee would see the best results for their scam. No reason to give them any ideas, though...
WE DO USE CREDIT CARDS, LINES OF CREDIT, AND HELOCS AT THIS TIME...FOUR NEW PRODUCTS AND UPDATES ARE COIMING OUT AT THE END OF JUNE '''' I'M SURE THAT JUST MAKES ALL OF YOUR HAIR STAND UP ON YOUR NECK
I love how each of these UFFers cant do any of the calculations without their precious 'dashboard.' Its painfully obvious that each one doesn't know what happens underneath the hood either in theory or in practice.
Sadly, it also says a lot about the state of our education system that there are enough people in our country to make this scam profitable.
JamesHughbanks said: mhesidence said: JamesHughbanks said: IF YOU WANT TO SEE MY TRANSACTIONS IN THE SCENARIO, WE WILL ALL HAVE TO SCHEDULE A WEBINAR SO...
I hope you all enjoy stewing in your juices.
So the spreadsheet met your challenge and yet you delcare victory and move on without posting your answers. Typical.
THE ANSERS ARE NEXT TO ANTONU'S A COUPLE OF POST BACKno, your stated, unverified, most likely incorrect numbers are. he posted all his numbers. you can too, but apparantly, only in a circle jerk webinar. you do realize your software doesn't account for interest bearing accounts for optimizing, right? heck, UFF software doesn't even to MMA optimally.
sorry, the only partial numbers you posted showed you were lying. why should we trust anything else you've posted? we know the mechanics behind the UFF. it's simple money movements easily replicated in a spreadsheet (any math can be replicated in a spreadsheet, it's all math). we know the UFF has no chance in heck of EVER saving DIY, much less by multiple months. The $3500 kills it, and interest bearing checking accounts beat the salary float.
post numbers, mr fraud. heck, you haven't even posted correct numbers from the original scenario, all you posted was how you can't even read the output from your own product. That's just too funny!
ChemEngGuy said: I love how each of these UFFers cant do any of the calculations without their precious 'dashboard.' don't you mean they can't do calculations, period?
JamesHughbanks said: anthonyu said: JamesHughbanks said: anthonyu said: JamesHughbanks, so can you paste the results from your software. When will the mortgage be paid off with all those scenarios. My spreadsheet says 3/2018.i requested a payoff after each event that lead up to your final figure All you have to do is delete all the data for each scenario starting from scenario 9 going up and clicking on Calculate after each delete.
If you look at the spreadsheet, I can show you the balance, interest and pre-payment amount EVERY MONTH for the duration of the mortgage for each of your scenario.
What's your result?
I'm off to do real work for the next few hours, but I'll be curious to find out how far off I am from your software's results. It will also be good if you can post the transactions as a result of each scenario, like I do with the spreadsheet. Maybe you'll convince me to spend $3500 for your software.
Here are the results on the only posted answers on the thread I could find
ANTHONU'S RESULTS MONEY MERGE ACCOUNT Scenario 6 BUY CAR 12K :10/2015 MMA 7.75 yrs 10/2014 save 12 mo Scenario 5 SEPND 23,350 : 4/2015 MMA 7.417 yrs 6/2014 true cost $27726 Scenario 4 DEPOSIT 3.5K SUM : 7/2015 MMA 6.75 Yrs 10/2013 saved - 21 mo Scenario 3 ADD-900 EX./8.5O : 9/2014 MMA 6.833 yrs 11/2013 saved - 10 mo Scenario 2 BUDGET DROP $150 : 5/2014 MMA 6.583 yrs 8/2013 saved - 9 mo Scenario 1 PAY RAISE $50 : 1/2014 MMA 5.917 yrs 10/2013 saved - 3 mo
IF YOU WANT TO SEE MY TRANSACTIONS IN THE SCENARIO, WE WILL ALL HAVE TO SCHEDULE A WEBINAR SO YOU CAN PHYSICALLY SEE ME PUT IN THE RELEVANT FIGURES INTO THE SOFTWARE. THE FINANCIAL DASHBOARD OF THE SOFTWARE WILL DEMONSTRATE THE ABOVE RESULTS AUTOMATICALLY. SORRY, THIS IS THE ONLY WAY I CAN PROVE IT. THE SOFTWARE IS DESIGNED TO BE SIMPLE ON THE SURFACE WITH ALL DETAILED DATA LIKE YOUR SPREADSHEET (AND MORE) UNDER THE COVER FOR SIMPLICITY OF USE BY EVERYONE WHO OWNS IT.
BY THE WAY HERE ARE THE ANSWERS TO 7,8,9
SCENARION #7------ LOSE JOB MMA OUT OF MONEY IN 40 MONTHS SCENARIO #8 ------ REDUCE BUDGET BY $500 MMA OUT OF MONEY IN 45 MONTHS SCENASRIO # 9 ---- FIND JOB FOR 25%/19MO.'S LATER MMA 10.5 YEARS 7/2017
REAL LIFE is where it is at...this is why the Money Merge Account is so popular with it's owners. It let's them deal with all the changes in their financial life without much work, knowledge, or even computer skills. They see the instant result of their choices and that helps them reach their goals and pay the least amount of interest on everything. If it is not for you, that is OK. It is not for everyone. I will be willing to bet that you would like it too if you gave it a chance...don't worry, i will not hold my breath. I cannot beleive how many pages of this thread has been dedicated to me...that means I must be making a difference... WE JUST SAVED 69 MONTHS ON THIS SCENARIO. THAT MEANS EACH TIME WE DID A TRANSACTION, WRONG CHOICES WERE MADE THAT WOULD MAKE YOU PAY MORE MONTHS BEFORE PAYOFF. THE LAST SCENARIO ALONE WAS 12 MONTH X 2991+ $35,892 DIFFERENCE MAYBE THAT $3500 IS LOOKING A LITTLE BETTER THAN EVER BEFORE. THERES THE ADDED BENEFIT OF ADDITIONAL INTEREST SAVED FROM PAYING OFF EARLY.
Have a great evening...I've spent WAAAAAAY to many hours with you all to get you to this point...but I beleive it has been worth every insult you could throw at me.
I hope you all enjoy stewing in your juices. Dude, are these independent scenarios or scenarios that should be combined? I combined all scenarios one after the other, which I assume you did but I'm confused how you're able to pay it off quicker when scenario 2 calls for a mandatory $150 savings, meaning you pre-pay less than $150 beginning in Month 4. Did you put the savings back into the loan? I kept the savings separate, which at the 6th year of the mortgage is at $11280.96.
Can you post the transactions at month 12 or month 18 (which usually cover the last few months), the same way you did for months 1 to 7? Otherwise, we can schedule a webinar later in the week. I'm pretty busy the next couple of days.
anthonyu said: JamesHughbanks said: anthonyu said: JamesHughbanks said: anthonyu said: JamesHughbanks, so can you paste the results from your software. When will the mortgage be paid off with all those scenarios. My spreadsheet says 3/2018.i requested a payoff after each event that lead up to your final figure All you have to do is delete all the data for each scenario starting from scenario 9 going up and clicking on Calculate after each delete.
If you look at the spreadsheet, I can show you the balance, interest and pre-payment amount EVERY MONTH for the duration of the mortgage for each of your scenario.
What's your result?
I'm off to do real work for the next few hours, but I'll be curious to find out how far off I am from your software's results. It will also be good if you can post the transactions as a result of each scenario, like I do with the spreadsheet. Maybe you'll convince me to spend $3500 for your software.
Here are the results on the only posted answers on the thread I could find
ANTHONU'S RESULTS MONEY MERGE ACCOUNT Scenario 6 BUY CAR 12K :10/2015 MMA 7.75 yrs 10/2014 save 12 mo Scenario 5 SEPND 23,350 : 4/2015 MMA 7.417 yrs 6/2014 true cost $27726 Scenario 4 DEPOSIT 3.5K SUM : 7/2015 MMA 6.75 Yrs 10/2013 saved - 21 mo Scenario 3 ADD-900 EX./8.5O : 9/2014 MMA 6.833 yrs 11/2013 saved - 10 mo Scenario 2 BUDGET DROP $150 : 5/2014 MMA 6.583 yrs 8/2013 saved - 9 mo Scenario 1 PAY RAISE $50 : 1/2014 MMA 5.917 yrs 10/2013 saved - 3 mo
IF YOU WANT TO SEE MY TRANSACTIONS IN THE SCENARIO, WE WILL ALL HAVE TO SCHEDULE A WEBINAR SO YOU CAN PHYSICALLY SEE ME PUT IN THE RELEVANT FIGURES INTO THE SOFTWARE. THE FINANCIAL DASHBOARD OF THE SOFTWARE WILL DEMONSTRATE THE ABOVE RESULTS AUTOMATICALLY. SORRY, THIS IS THE ONLY WAY I CAN PROVE IT. THE SOFTWARE IS DESIGNED TO BE SIMPLE ON THE SURFACE WITH ALL DETAILED DATA LIKE YOUR SPREADSHEET (AND MORE) UNDER THE COVER FOR SIMPLICITY OF USE BY EVERYONE WHO OWNS IT.
BY THE WAY HERE ARE THE ANSWERS TO 7,8,9
SCENARION #7------ LOSE JOB MMA OUT OF MONEY IN 40 MONTHS SCENARIO #8 ------ REDUCE BUDGET BY $500 MMA OUT OF MONEY IN 45 MONTHS SCENASRIO # 9 ---- FIND JOB FOR 25%/19MO.'S LATER MMA 10.5 YEARS 7/2017
REAL LIFE is where it is at...this is why the Money Merge Account is so popular with it's owners. It let's them deal with all the changes in their financial life without much work, knowledge, or even computer skills. They see the instant result of their choices and that helps them reach their goals and pay the least amount of interest on everything. If it is not for you, that is OK. It is not for everyone. I will be willing to bet that you would like it too if you gave it a chance...don't worry, i will not hold my breath. I cannot beleive how many pages of this thread has been dedicated to me...that means I must be making a difference... WE JUST SAVED 69 MONTHS ON THIS SCENARIO. THAT MEANS EACH TIME WE DID A TRANSACTION, WRONG CHOICES WERE MADE THAT WOULD MAKE YOU PAY MORE MONTHS BEFORE PAYOFF. THE LAST SCENARIO ALONE WAS 12 MONTH X 2991+ $35,892 DIFFERENCE MAYBE THAT $3500 IS LOOKING A LITTLE BETTER THAN EVER BEFORE. THERES THE ADDED BENEFIT OF ADDITIONAL INTEREST SAVED FROM PAYING OFF EARLY.
Have a great evening...I've spent WAAAAAAY to many hours with you all to get you to this point...but I beleive it has been worth every insult you could throw at me.
I hope you all enjoy stewing in your juices.
Can you post the transactions at month 12 or month 18 (which usually cover the last few months), the same way you did for months 1 to 7? Otherwise, we can schedule a webinar later in the week. I'm pretty busy the next couple of days.
I cannot since I just had to plug the variable in and the software gave the numbers. we can schedule later, that's ok
calvinandhobbes said: ChemEngGuy said: I love how each of these UFFers cant do any of the calculations without their precious 'dashboard.' don't you mean they can't do calculations, period?
calvin and chemguy---- we have never been talking about my abilities, we have been discussing the softwares capability. I'm sorry you can't match it and that makes you PISSED OFF... oh well!! chemguy.. i agree the education in america needs a lot of help when it comes to finances, it is really inadequate. let me ask you, what are you doing to make a difference...or are you just going to sit back and gripe, moan and try to inform everyone of your intellegence level??
JamesHughbanks said: I cannot since I just had to plug the variable in and the software gave the numbers. we can schedule later, that's ok I updated my post, essentially I added this:
Dude, are these independent scenarios or scenarios that should be combined? I combined all scenarios one after the other, which I assume you did but I'm confused how you're able to pay it off quicker when scenario 2 calls for a mandatory $150 savings, meaning you pre-pay less than $150 beginning in Month 4. Did you put the savings back into the loan? I kept the savings separate, which at the 6th year of the mortgage is at $11280.96.
calvinandhobbes said: JamesHughbanks said: mhesidence said: JamesHughbanks said: IF YOU WANT
no, your stated, unverified, most likely incorrect numbers are. he posted all his numbers. you can too, but apparantly, only in a circle jerk webinar. you do realize your software doesn't account for interest bearing accounts for optimizing, right? heck, UFF software doesn't even to MMA optimally.
sorry, the only partial numbers you posted showed you were lying. why should we trust anything else you've posted? we know the mechanics behind the UFF. it's simple money movements easily replicated in a spreadsheet (any math can be replicated in a spreadsheet, it's all math). we know the UFF has no chance in heck of EVER saving DIY, much less by multiple months. The $3500 kills it, and interest bearing checking accounts beat the salary float.
post numbers, mr fraud. heck, you haven't even posted correct numbers from the original scenario, all you posted was how you can't even read the output from your own product. That's just too funny!
I have a great idea for you bud, why don''t you packjage you precious spreadsheet and sell it for $29.95 on an infomercial. That way you can really help people with your expertise/....or do you just want to brow beat everyone and never help no one. What a selfish SAB YOU ARE THE LOSER HERE!
Whew, what a waste of time this guy is. He can't show any work because the only number he understands is years to payoff and he has no idea how it's achieved. In fact, he will not respond to the lack of HELOC interest in the little bit of work he did show. He obviously doesn't understand what the software even does.
The good thing is that anyone who follows through all his nonsense will not be convinced because of the fact that he cannot show any work or money movements that are correct.
OT (I have had quite enough of the latest UFF scumbag) --
Almost all of the "scenario" questions ask the same thing, which is to calculate the future value of money. It is certainly trivial to get the answers from a decent mortgage calculator as I have indicated, but I think an underlying point exists that 90%+ Americans have at best a vague idea what is being talked about, and in even higher numbers are incapable of figuring it out. Worse of all, very few people outside of relatively small groups like this forum modify their behavior accordingly.
A couple of months ago I showed my kids the arithmetic demonstrating that if their parents lived frugally, an infinite number of generations to follow could live modestly on the returns. I also showed my wife how much a penny saved is worth to her grandchildren.
Perhaps the best we an hope for from the national education system is to instill that 'a penny saved is a penny 'earned', even though it is quite more than that. But I'm getting ahead of ourselves. First is to realize that consumer debt is warmed over indentured servitude.
delzy said: Whew, what a waste of time this guy is. He can't show any work because the only number he understands is years to payoff and he has no idea how it's achieved. In fact, he will not respond to the lack of HELOC interest in the little bit of work he did show. He obviously doesn't understand what the software even does.
The good thing is that anyone who follows through all his nonsense will not be convinced because of the fact that he cannot show any work or money movements that are correct.
you are just agrivated that the numbers don't match up with yours. I have to give credit to Antonu, he at least had the guts to take the time to try...how bout you...agsin this mis not about me, it is abourt a product you think you know but are really not sure now because of the numkber differences in the real life scenario. just think, you've been hanging out on this thread bashing whoever will let you for 150 pages and it comes to this, the MMA may just have more merit than any of you would ever admit..why? FOOLISH IGNORANT PRIDE!
JamesHughbanks said: calvin and chemguy---- we have never been talking about my abilities, we have been discussing the softwares capability. James, you are losing this argument in epic fashion, and you can't even defend your own ability to perform basic calculations. You are simply outclassed in this debate.
JamesHughbanks said: I'm sorry you can't match it and that makes you PISSED OFF... oh well!! Who's pissed? We're finding this hilarious. You have no clue what you're talking about. You keep trying to make the problem more complex before correctly answering the simple case. The technique is called "obfuscating", but nobody is falling for it.
JamesHughbanks said: chemguy.. i agree the education in america needs a lot of help when it comes to finances, it is really inadequate. let me ask you, what are you doing to make a difference...or are you just going to sit back and gripe, moan and try to inform everyone of your intellegence level?? A *very* common UFF agent technique: Ask "what are you doing to fix the problem?"
Answer: "We're educating people about mortgage acceleration scams."
JamesHughbanks said: Scenario 6: 10/2015 MMA 7.75 yrs 10/2004 Scenario 5: 4/2015 MMA 7.417 yrs 6/2014 true cost $27,726.68 Scenario 4: 7/2015 MMA 6.75 yrs 10/2013 Scenario 3: 9/2014 MMA 6.833 yrs 9/2014 Scenario 2: 5/2014 MMA 6.583 yrs 8/2013 Scenario 1: 1/2014 MMA 5.917 yrs 10/2013 Dude, you're killing me here. You have posted the correct payoff years but not the correct payoff date. You started on 11/30/2007. If you add 6.583 years (6 years, 7 months) in scenario 2, it will take you to 6/2014, and not 8/2013. I was wondering why the payoff was sooner. I also noticed that the difference between Scenario 6 and Scenario 1 is 1.8 years, but the difference in payoff date is exactly 1 year.
Apparently, your software has a bad calendar. Your payoff date is wrong for scenarios 2 to 6 based on the payoff years that you provided. Instead of the months and year(s) difference you claim for scenarios 2 to 6, 2 scenarios were the same, 2 scenarios were off by 1 month, 1 scenario was off by 2 months.
Note that I made a typo in Scenario 4. It should be 7/2014 instead of 7/2015, you can double-check it with the spreadsheet. It caught my eye because it was a $3500 payment and the payoff date increased instead of decreased.
And while we're at it, you also said this: SCENASRIO # 9 ---- FIND JOB FOR 25%/19MO.'S LATER MMA 10.5 YEARS 7/2017 If you start on 11/30/2007, 10.5 years (10 years, 6 months) is 5/2018 and not 7/2017. The payoff date I originally said is 3/2018.
EricGo07 said: OT (I have had quite enough of the latest UFF scumbag) --
Almost all of the "scenario" questions ask the same thing, which is to calculate the future value of money. It is certainly trivial to get the answers from a decent mortgage calculator as I have indicated, but I think an underlying point exists that 90%+ Americans have at best a vague idea what is being talked about, and in even higher numbers are incapable of figuring it out. Worse of all, very few people outside of relatively small groups like this forum modify their behavior accordingly.
A couple of months ago I showed my kids the arithmetic demonstrating that if their parents lived frugally, an infinite number of generations to follow could live modestly on the returns. I also showed my wife how much a penny saved is worth to her grandchildren.
Perhaps the best we an hope for from the national education system is to instill that 'a penny saved is a penny 'earned', even though it is quite more than that. But I'm getting ahead of ourselves. First is to realize that consumer debt is warmed over indentured servitude.
NOW THAT'S THE BEST I HAVE HEARD FROM YOU...GET OUT THERE AND MAKE ADIFFERENCE FOR PEOPLE. FAILURE IS DEFINE AS DOING NOTHING
This thread has shown me how stupid America in general is. It is sad when people are falling for UFF, especially with the way this last shill has so poorly presented it. In a face to face, anyone with just a tiny bit of intelligence would laugh in his face with his arguments.
Essentially what these shills say is "my method is better than your method, I just can't tell you how it's done and I don't know how it's done. The computer screen said so, so it must be true." It's a good thing the world works with facts and proofs.
The only thing they are left to tout after a simple apples to apples demonstration shows prepayment is more efficient than UFF is that the software can tell you when you'll pay your mortgage off under some scenario. That's all fine and dandy, except every one of these scenarios can be put into a free mortgage calculator.
Because people are too stupid to understand how interest is calculated or even the concept of paying more shortens your mortgage, these shills have an easy time of duping them.
Anthony, he'll have to take your word for it. All he can do is type in numbers and hope the result is right. This has been amply demonstrated by his attempt to field Calvin's challenge where he first thought UFF came out ~ 24k ahead of DIY, and in later posts failed to recognize that HELOC debt interest was not being calculated, that an extra paycheck was in the mix, and that accrued home loan interest had not posted. All from someone who purportedly sold home loans in the past.
He is living proof that UFF is an *awful* financial calculator even if it was free. GIGO after GIGO.
JamesHughbanks said: EricGo07 said: snipped NOW THAT'S THE BEST I HAVE HEARD FROM YOU...GET OUT THERE AND MAKE ADIFFERENCE FOR PEOPLE. FAILURE IS DEFINE AS DOING NOTHINGYou have no idea how ironic your response is. I'll give you a broad hint though: First, do no harm.
It is hubris that only a scammer of your depravity could manage, to criticize people here for not helping their fellows enough while you spend your life trying to con strangers and family alike.
synnyster said: This thread has shown me how stupid America in general is. It is sad when people are falling for UFF, especially with the way this last shill has so poorly presented it. In a face to face, anyone with just a tiny bit of intelligence would laugh in his face with his arguments.
Essentially what these shills say is "my method is better than your method, I just can't tell you how it's done and I don't know how it's done. The computer screen said so, so it must be true." It's a good thing the world works with facts and proofs.
The only thing they are left to tout after a simple apples to apples demonstration shows prepayment is more efficient than UFF is that the software can tell you when you'll pay your mortgage off under some scenario. That's all fine and dandy, except every one of these scenarios can be put into a free mortgage calculator.
HEY SMART GUY, INSTEAD OF BLOWING IT OUT YOUR EAR, MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN A POSSITIVE WAY TO HELP SOMEONE NOT AS INTELLIGENT AS YOU...OR ARE YOU JUST TOO ARROGANT AND FULL OF YOURSELF?
Because people are too stupid to understand how interest is calculated or even the concept of paying more shortens your mortgage, these shills have an easy time of duping them.
YOU ALL NEED TO CHANGE THE TITLE TO THIS THREAD....I BELIEVE YOU ARE BEING DECEPTIVE TO DRAW OTHERS IN TO YOUR TRAPS.BEING LIARS AS YOU CLAIM WE ARE....LOOKING FOR WHAT THRUTH ..YOUR OWN.. WHY NOT SAY IT LIKE IT IS...UNITED FIRST FIANCIAL..COME SEE HOW MUCH WE HATE THIS COMPANY AND IT'S PRODUCT..OH BY THE WAY, THIS IS OUR TRUTH AND WE ARE GOING TO SHOVE IT DOWN YOUR THROAT..HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE USING YOUR SYSTEM, HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE YOU HELPING GET OUT OF DEBT? I BET NONE. LIKE I SAID BEFORE, MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN THIS WORLD OR SIT ON THIS THREAD A HELP NO ONE BUT YOUR OWN EGOS AND "LIKE MINDED" ARROGANCE. I KNOW NOT ALL OF YOU ARE THAT WAY, BUT YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE OR SHOULD I LIST YOU BY NAME
JamesHughbanks said: synnyster said: This thread has shown me how stupid America in general is. It is sad when people are falling for UFF, especially with the way this last shill has so poorly presented it. In a face to face, anyone with just a tiny bit of intelligence would laugh in his face with his arguments.
Essentially what these shills say is "my method is better than your method, I just can't tell you how it's done and I don't know how it's done. The computer screen said so, so it must be true." It's a good thing the world works with facts and proofs.
The only thing they are left to tout after a simple apples to apples demonstration shows prepayment is more efficient than UFF is that the software can tell you when you'll pay your mortgage off under some scenario. That's all fine and dandy, except every one of these scenarios can be put into a free mortgage calculator.
HEY SMART GUY, INSTEAD OF BLOWING IT OUT YOUR EAR, MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN A POSSITIVE WAY TO HELP SOMEONE NOT AS INTELLIGENT AS YOU...OR ARE YOU JUST TOO ARROGANT AND FULL OF YOURSELF?
Because people are too stupid to understand how interest is calculated or even the concept of paying more shortens your mortgage, these shills have an easy time of duping them. Because you're already responding to a later post, you may have missed my post where I said that your payoff dates are bogus.
JamesHughbanks said: YOU ALL NEED TO CHANGE THE TITLE TO THIS THREAD....I BELIEVE YOU ARE BEING DECEPTIVE TO DRAW OTHERS IN TO YOUR TRAPS.BEING LIARS AS YOU CLAIM WE ARE....LOOKING FOR WHAT THRUTH ..YOUR OWN.. WHY NOT SAY IT LIKE IT IS...UNITED FIRST FIANCIAL..COME SEE HOW MUCH WE HATE THIS COMPANY AND IT'S PRODUCT..OH BY THE WAY, THIS IS OUR TRUTH AND WE ARE GOING TO SHOVE IT DOWN YOUR THROAT..HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE USING YOUR SYSTEM, HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE YOU HELPING GET OUT OF DEBT? I BET NONE. LIKE I SAID BEFORE, MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN THIS WORLD OR SIT ON THIS THREAD A HELP NO ONE BUT YOUR OWN EGOS AND "LIKE MINDED" ARROGANCE. I KNOW NOT ALL OF YOU ARE THAT WAY, BUT YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE OR SHOULD I LIST YOU BY NAMEI think your 'jesus made me do it' angle was more effective.
EricGo07 said: JamesHughbanks said: YOU ALL NEED TO CHANGE THE TITLE TO THIS THREAD....I BELIEVE YOU ARE BEING DECEPTIVE TO DRAW OTHERS IN TO YOUR TRAPS.BEING LIARS AS YOU CLAIM WE ARE....LOOKING FOR WHAT THRUTH ..YOUR OWN.. WHY NOT SAY IT LIKE IT IS...UNITED FIRST FIANCIAL..COME SEE HOW MUCH WE HATE THIS COMPANY AND IT'S PRODUCT..OH BY THE WAY, THIS IS OUR TRUTH AND WE ARE GOING TO SHOVE IT DOWN YOUR THROAT..HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE USING YOUR SYSTEM, HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE YOU HELPING GET OUT OF DEBT? I BET NONE. LIKE I SAID BEFORE, MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN THIS WORLD OR SIT ON THIS THREAD A HELP NO ONE BUT YOUR OWN EGOS AND "LIKE MINDED" ARROGANCE. I KNOW NOT ALL OF YOU ARE THAT WAY, BUT YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE OR SHOULD I LIST YOU BY NAMEI think your 'jesus made me do it' angle was more effective.
GO FIGURE, YOU WOULDN'T HAVE THE RESPECT TO CAPITALIZE JESUS...THAT TELLS ME WHAT SIDE OF THE TABLE YOU ARE ON ...BUT YOU DID CAPTIALIZE "I" ...
JamesHughbanks said: EricGo07 said: JamesHughbanks said: YOU ALL NEED TO CHANGE THE TITLE TO THIS THREAD....I BELIEVE YOU ARE BEING DECEPTIVE TO DRAW OTHERS IN TO YOUR TRAPS.BEING LIARS AS YOU CLAIM WE ARE....LOOKING FOR WHAT THRUTH ..YOUR OWN.. WHY NOT SAY IT LIKE IT IS...UNITED FIRST FIANCIAL..COME SEE HOW MUCH WE HATE THIS COMPANY AND IT'S PRODUCT..OH BY THE WAY, THIS IS OUR TRUTH AND WE ARE GOING TO SHOVE IT DOWN YOUR THROAT..HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE USING YOUR SYSTEM, HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE YOU HELPING GET OUT OF DEBT? I BET NONE. LIKE I SAID BEFORE, MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN THIS WORLD OR SIT ON THIS THREAD A HELP NO ONE BUT YOUR OWN EGOS AND "LIKE MINDED" ARROGANCE. I KNOW NOT ALL OF YOU ARE THAT WAY, BUT YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE OR SHOULD I LIST YOU BY NAMEI think your 'jesus made me do it' angle was more effective.
GO FIGURE, YOU WOULDN'T HAVE THE RESPECT TO CAPITALIZE JESUS...THAT TELLS ME WHAT SIDE OF THE TABLE YOU ARE ON ...BUT YOU DID CAPTIALIZE "I" ... And you don't have the respect to put in the correct payoff months. Please reply to my post. Thanks.
JamesHughbanks said: EricGo07 said: JamesHughbanks said: YOU ALL NEED TO CHANGE THE TITLE TO THIS THREAD....I BELIEVE YOU ARE BEING DECEPTIVE TO DRAW OTHERS IN TO YOUR TRAPS.BEING LIARS AS YOU CLAIM WE ARE....LOOKING FOR WHAT THRUTH ..YOUR OWN.. WHY NOT SAY IT LIKE IT IS...UNITED FIRST FIANCIAL..COME SEE HOW MUCH WE HATE THIS COMPANY AND IT'S PRODUCT..OH BY THE WAY, THIS IS OUR TRUTH AND WE ARE GOING TO SHOVE IT DOWN YOUR THROAT..HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE USING YOUR SYSTEM, HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE YOU HELPING GET OUT OF DEBT? I BET NONE. LIKE I SAID BEFORE, MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN THIS WORLD OR SIT ON THIS THREAD A HELP NO ONE BUT YOUR OWN EGOS AND "LIKE MINDED" ARROGANCE. I KNOW NOT ALL OF YOU ARE THAT WAY, BUT YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE OR SHOULD I LIST YOU BY NAMEI think your 'jesus made me do it' angle was more effective.
GO FIGURE, YOU WOULDN'T HAVE THE RESPECT TO CAPITALIZE JESUS...THAT TELLS ME WHAT SIDE OF THE TABLE YOU ARE ON ...BUT YOU DID CAPTIALIZE "I" ...Interesting metaphor. It made me realize what table you are *under*.
JamesHughbanks said: YOU ALL NEED TO CHANGE THE TITLE TO THIS THREAD....I BELIEVE YOU ARE BEING DECEPTIVE TO DRAW OTHERS IN TO YOUR TRAPS.BEING LIARS AS YOU CLAIM WE ARE....LOOKING FOR WHAT THRUTH ..YOUR OWN.. WHY NOT SAY IT LIKE IT IS...UNITED FIRST FIANCIAL..COME SEE HOW MUCH WE HATE THIS COMPANY AND IT'S PRODUCT..OH BY THE WAY, THIS IS OUR TRUTH AND WE ARE GOING TO SHOVE IT DOWN YOUR THROAT..HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE USING YOUR SYSTEM, HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE YOU HELPING GET OUT OF DEBT? I BET NONE. LIKE I SAID BEFORE, MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN THIS WORLD OR SIT ON THIS THREAD A HELP NO ONE BUT YOUR OWN EGOS AND "LIKE MINDED" ARROGANCE. I KNOW NOT ALL OF YOU ARE THAT WAY, BUT YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE OR SHOULD I LIST YOU BY NAME This is nothing short of ridiculous. People come to this board to live frugally and/or save money. If the product you sell worked as billed, FWF'ers would be all over it like sliced bread. In fact, your product is a horrible value, completely unnecessary and frankly harmful to accelerating a mortgage payoff. This is why so many people waste so much time debunking your patter.
Here are some pertinent facts that you choose to ignore or have no answer to: 1. Obvious arithmetic and logic errors in the few numbers you post in support of your claim 2. Recognition of nonsense sales terms such as "front-loaded interest" and "interest cancellation" 3. Your lack of accounting for HELOC interest and repayment in any of the numbers you provide 4. Your lack or math/science analytical skills 5. Your conflict of interest in accepting $2500 commission selling a non-performing product to relatives and fellow parishioners at church 6. Your constant obfuscation and goal post moving scenarios when your numbers are not accurate for the simplest of models.
You, my friend, have lost the argument you are so vehemently clinging to.
JamesHughbanks, might I add... since you can't even get the simple "unchanging life" scenario right - others had to do it for you, and then UFF was shown to be inferior - why would I care what UFF/you say about the "real-life" scenarios? Put simply, the basic product is crap, so why would I want to use it to generate more crap?
delzy, I believe, has just posted some excellent points, though we should stop at #1 or maybe #3. GHB, you're encountering resistance because you've posted numbers which were shown to be incorrect. You've not gone back and addressed those flaws. Therefore, I can only assume that you've entered the numbers incorrectly on the most basic of simulations, or the program you're using has a bug. If the error is the former, and you're someone who sells this product, what hope does the "average" user have in gaining from this software? It clearly requires some expertise and skill. Time and time again, we've seen people touting the value of the software give us grossly incorrect values for basic scenarios. If the input was correct and the output is wrong, then we're in an even worse situation. Your sister bought a $3,500 piece of software ... err, bought the rights to use a website, and the item can't deliver.
As for helping people get out of debt, I don't make money when I give financial advice to my family and friends. I suggest a few books when approached, which use principles grounded upon academic papers and testing. I do not suggest tools and tricks I don't have a firm understanding of. I honestly do not believe that you understand how the program you're using works. I'm not referring to the interface, but how and what it needs to calculate.
Therefore, as such, I fail to see any reason to argue over anything until the initial simple scenario is calculated correctly with the software. I have no faith in your ability to perform a more complicated scenario. I will thank for a very entertaining read while I was at work. It was a bit of a boring day as I was running several 5-10 minute experiments. Checking back to see how this thread had progressed was entertaining.
Ok, so I think I completely understand the UFF scamware now. It simply ignores all HELOC interest in its calculations. Very convenient. It isn't really JH trying to deceive us. He is just plugging the numbers in and doesn't really understand what is happening. I guess he deserves pity rather than scorn (ok, well, maybe a little scorn).
JamesHughbanks said: IF YOU WANT TO SEE MY TRANSACTIONS IN THE SCENARIO, WE WILL ALL HAVE TO SCHEDULE A WEBINAR SO YOU CAN PHYSICALLY SEE ME PUT IN THE RELEVANT FIGURES INTO THE SOFTWARE. THE FINANCIAL DASHBOARD OF THE SOFTWARE WILL DEMONSTRATE THE ABOVE RESULTS AUTOMATICALLY. SORRY, THIS IS THE ONLY WAY I CAN PROVE IT. THE SOFTWARE IS DESIGNED TO BE SIMPLE ON THE SURFACE WITH ALL DETAILED DATA LIKE YOUR SPREADSHEET (AND MORE) UNDER THE COVER FOR SIMPLICITY OF USE BY EVERYONE WHO OWNS IT.
"ALL DETAILED DATA LIKE YOUR SPREADSHEET (AND MORE) UNDER THE COVER." How convenient that "under the covers" also hides the failure of UFF software to perform basic math
edit Reading this after finishing final preparations of move back to the US makes me feel dirty. Thanks for everyone who has the determination to continue to post against the scam. One more day in Oz for me, but this scam is still illegal in Australia
galabar said: Ok, so I think I completely understand the UFF scamware now. It simply ignores all HELOC interest in its calculations. Very convenient. It isn't really JH trying to deceive us. He is just plugging the numbers in and doesn't really understand what is happening. I guess he deserves pity rather than scorn (ok, well, maybe a little scorn).i wouldn't say this, as a UFF person can legitimately dispute this. The "system" can save a few dollars here and there with a HELOC interest rate higher than the mortgage, just not anything remotely close to $3500. the method accounts for HELOC interest, just as it's setup, you have to enter it into the software yourself each month from your HELOC statement. It's a "scam" because it's marketed as the HELOC shuffle saving all the money when it's the extra money going towards it that does all the work, just like prepayments, but with that painfull $3500 price tag. on it's own, it's a crappy, expensive product. The way it's advertised makes it a scam.
Another shill bites the dust when presented with clear facts that UFF lags behind simple prepayment methods. You know you've won the argument when the other party has to resort TO TYPING IN ALL CAPS TO MAKE HIS POINT.
calvinandhobbes said: The "system" can save a few dollars here and there with a HELOC interest rate higher than the mortgage, just not anything remotely close to $3500. the method accounts for HELOC interest, just as it's setup, you have to enter it into the software yourself each month from your HELOC statement.
If this is the case, how can the estimated payoff date be accurate if the HELOC interest isn't automagically accounted for into the future? Doesn't the HELOC interest reduce your disposable income and thus delay your payoff date? I estimate that it actually increase the loan payoff by approximately one half the HELOC interest on monthly disposable income over the life of the loan. Thus, the pea in the shell game.
I know this is not much in the grand scheme of things, but this is where they imply the additional paydown is coming from (as opposed to your sacrificing every extra dollar to the mortgage over the entire life of the loan). No change in lifestyle???? Hardly.
well, generally speaking, the software projects out based on your monthly spending/income. it is up to the user to put that information in correctly. leaving out the HELOC interest would be the same as leaving off your water bill... user error. your projection will be incorrect. but your accounts won't balance either. i'm just saying the software makes projections based on user input, and the user is required to put in the monthly HELOC interest charges, so if it is done correctly, it will take that into account. of course none of this changes the fact that the software provides no value to the user, especially when compared to the claims made by agents.
i do think we have a responsibility to understand the product we bash. if we make false claims about it, we can become discredited which only helps the UFF cause and may lead to someone believing the false UFF claims.
on a lighter note, someone posted this after a meeting with a UFF agent:
BTW, the agent i spoke to claim that the program is approved and used by the Homeland Security and the NSA since it’s so powerful i think this is hysterical. not only is it another completely obvious lie, but who in their right mind would claim credit for handling finances of any part of the Federal Government, espcially DEBT!!!! What, 8 trillion and counting??? Too freakin' funny!
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