calvinandhobbes said: well, generally speaking, the software projects out based on your monthly spending/income. it is up to the user to put that information in correctly. leaving out the HELOC interest would be the same as leaving off your water bill... user error. your projection will be incorrect. but your accounts won't balance either. i'm just saying the software makes projections based on user input, and the user is required to put in the monthly HELOC interest charges, so if it is done correctly, it will take that into account. of course none of this changes the fact that the software provides no value to the user, especially when compared to the claims made by agents.
i do think we have a responsibility to understand the product we bash. if we make false claims about it, we can become discredited which only helps the UFF cause and may lead to someone believing the false UFF claims.Exactly, and worth emphasizing these points. This is why I have said in prior posts that a person who was undisciplined in the past and failed to keep a budget, is unlikely to suddenly start keeping exact income/spending records and keep at it over years just because of the pretty UFF web interface.
Yes, being that the mark for this scam are uninformed and undisciplined folks who aren't even aware the extra $3500 they are paying(which is usually rolled into the mortgage). Are they really going to follow this "motivational tool"?
It's adding fuel to the fire. Like siimilar debt elimination scheme, the victims are always in worse shape afteward. There's not an ounce of decency in people pushing this.
calvinandhobbes said: galabar said: Ok, so I think I completely understand the UFF scamware now. It simply ignores all HELOC interest in its calculations. Very convenient. It isn't really JH trying to deceive us. He is just plugging the numbers in and doesn't really understand what is happening. I guess he deserves pity rather than scorn (ok, well, maybe a little scorn).i wouldn't say this, as a UFF person can legitimately dispute this. The "system" can save a few dollars here and there with a HELOC interest rate higher than the mortgage, just not anything remotely close to $3500. the method accounts for HELOC interest, just as it's setup, you have to enter it into the software yourself each month from your HELOC statement. It's a "scam" because it's marketed as the HELOC shuffle saving all the money when it's the extra money going towards it that does all the work, just like prepayments, but with that painfull $3500 price tag. on it's own, it's a crappy, expensive product. The way it's advertised makes it a scam.
Actually, I meant that the initial analysis does not include any HELOC interest.
galabar said: calvinandhobbes said: galabar said: Ok, so I think I completely understand the UFF scamware now. It simply ignores all HELOC interest in its calculations. Very convenient. It isn't really JH trying to deceive us. He is just plugging the numbers in and doesn't really understand what is happening. I guess he deserves pity rather than scorn (ok, well, maybe a little scorn).i wouldn't say this, as a UFF person can legitimately dispute this. The "system" can save a few dollars here and there with a HELOC interest rate higher than the mortgage, just not anything remotely close to $3500. the method accounts for HELOC interest, just as it's setup, you have to enter it into the software yourself each month from your HELOC statement. It's a "scam" because it's marketed as the HELOC shuffle saving all the money when it's the extra money going towards it that does all the work, just like prepayments, but with that painfull $3500 price tag. on it's own, it's a crappy, expensive product. The way it's advertised makes it a scam.
Actually, I meant that the initial analysis does not include any HELOC interest.That's OK. It doesn't include any salary float interest either. I have yet to meet a shill who realizes that the initial analysis is *ONLY* based on prepayment. Quite a head scratcher for them, when our DIY (without the $3500 scam fee) always beats UFF. As I would expect from salescritters, some of these UFF scammers have mediocre+ social skills, but man are they arithmetic and reasoning challenged.
galabar said: synnyster said: So JHB is not coming back? Man, he was so entertaining.
This seems to have been the most information that was ever provided by a UFF shill. He was obviously a true believer.Yeah, at times I thought we were debating two different people:
jhb #1 seemed to realize that UFF had no objective money advantage, but argued the tool as a behavior modifier was worth it. He also was able to compose a sentence.
jhb #2 was the typical, ignorant UFF scumbag who made a fool of himself by taking up Calvin's challenge, and then resorted to religious claptrap in defense.
I know most of a shill's opening statements are copied and pasted from UFF central. Perhaps that happened here too.
LoL, he edited his opening statement here to say "30 years" instead of "15 years" to match the scam.com posting. Can't even keep the lies straight.
BTW. A realtor is not considered investment professional. At least, he was a realtor in Florida before the market crashed, now he sells this fantasy to the same group of clueless people Even lobbied city hall to allow tear down of old home. What a winner.
lostdude said: LoL, he edited his opening statement here to say "30 years" instead of "15 years" to match the scam.com posting. Can't even keep the lies straight.
BTW. A realtor is not considered investment professional. At least, he was a realtor in Florida before the market crashed, now he sells this fantasy to the same group of clueless people Even lobbied city hall to allow tear down of old home. What a winner.
Google Rules.
Google does indeed rule. A UFF agent I've been corresponding with turned up in old posts in a HYIP forum. Same cryptic username, same hometown.
A High Yield Investment Program (HYIP) is a Ponzi scheme - promising an unrealistic return on investment, and paying investors with the money of subsequent investors until the bottom falls out. Most "investors" seem to know what they're getting into, but hope they are among the few to profit.
This future UFF agent was asking to get in at the ground floor of the scammer's next company. She moved on from HYIP scams to the MMA scam.
You came here touting your $3500 software, saying that its value is in responding to real-life scenarios and calculating the results real-time. You said that we were uninformed and that you/we haven't seen anything that does the same thing, much less our stupid little spreadsheets that only work like the normal mortgage calculator. You kept on saying that no one can do the same thing so I give you a stupid little spreadsheet with all your pre-payment scenarios. All you need to do is enter your real-life payment scenarios and click on Calculate. I tell you what my payoff date is for each scenario. You come back saying that I am months off and that you cannot show us the transactions to support your payoff date, only to be busted for changing the payoff dates that the software projected because you were not smart enough to change everything in your results. As it turns out, the stupid little spreadsheet is either on target or within 1 month for most scenarios from your software's results. You replied to other posts sent minutes after I busted you, but never bothered replying to my post or at least refute my claim that you cheated.
BTW, I'm also challenging your result that you end up 3 months better in scenario 1. How can I be on target for scenarios 2 to 5, yet 3 months off in scenario 1? That must've been one hell of a correction between scenario 1 and scenario 2 for our results to be synchronized from that point on. The 3 month difference that you claim means $8K+ difference in our mortgage balance at the end of the loan. Yet scenario 1 only puts in an additional $100/month for the next ~70 months = $7000. I did some testing and the only way you will be paid off in month 71 is if you added around $200/month instead of $100 or made a magical pre-payment of ~$5K at month 3. Show your transactions at month 6. This should be easy to do since it is only 1 scenario in addition to what you've already posted before.
We really hope you come back. As the title of the thread says...we're all looking for the truth.
My, these UFF shills are like a textbook example of "how to obfuscate when you don't have any evidence for your claims." Does anyone else notice how they all INTERESTINGLY use the same pattern:
1) They open up with the same UFF sales pitch that attempts to dazzle scam victims with promises like paying their home down in record time WITHOUT any prepayment (no changes to their lifestyle). 2) Valiant FWFers immediately prove the claims to be wrong, so the shills start the tactic of "moving the goalposts" and tell us that its just a financial planning tool. 3) Valiant FWFers show that the "financial planning tool" is no better than prepaying your mortgage without fancy HELOC games, and the shill starts dropping red herrings to direct attention away from the topic. The last one started preaching to us about Jesus, in an attempt to get us off of topic and get the thread closed.
I am beginning to think UFF trains these people with the same obfuscation tactics.
You came here touting your $3500 software, saying that its value is in responding to real-life scenarios and calculating the results real-time. You said that we were uninformed and that you/we haven't seen anything that does the same thing, much less our stupid little spreadsheets that only work like the normal mortgage calculator. You kept on saying that no one can do the same thing so I give you a stupid little spreadsheet with all your pre-payment scenarios. All you need to do is enter your real-life payment scenarios and click on Calculate. I tell you what my payoff date is for each scenario. You come back saying that I am months off and that you cannot show us the transactions to support your payoff date, only to be busted for changing the payoff dates that the software projected because you were not smart enough to change everything in your results. As it turns out, the stupid little spreadsheet is either on target or within 1 month for most scenarios from your software's results. You replied to other posts sent minutes after I busted you, but never bothered replying to my post or at least refute my claim that you cheated.
BTW, I'm also challenging your result that you end up 3 months better in scenario 1. How can I be on target for scenarios 2 to 5, yet 3 months off in scenario 1? That must've been one hell of a correction between scenario 1 and scenario 2 for our results to be synchronized from that point on. The 3 month difference that you claim means $8K+ difference in our mortgage balance at the end of the loan. Yet scenario 1 only puts in an additional $100/month for the next ~70 months = $7000. I did some testing and the only way you will be paid off in month 71 is if you added around $200/month instead of $100 or made a magical pre-payment of ~$5K at month 3. Show your transactions at month 6. This should be easy to do since it is only 1 scenario in addition to what you've already posted before.
We really hope you come back. As the title of the thread says...we're all looking for the truth.
AND YOU THOUGHT I CRAWLED UNDER A ROCK ---- Sorry I have not!
I wanted to inform you that while I have made a few mistakes, so have you in your calculations compared to my request. We are all human and that is OK.
I have reviewed your analysis and the numbers, dates and assumptions are way off of mine. My purpose here is we both get on apples to apples as best we can so we all can truly see what the Money Merge Account is....and isn't. I don't know how much more fair that can be.... OK?
Here we Go:
I have redone the layout so there is no 11/30/08 income it starts on 12-15...5k deposit starts on 12-1... let's review the scenario so our figures are accurate. 3500 OUT OF EQUITY LINE OF 60K- START BALANCE OF 56,500. I have gone through your notes on your spreadsheet and have tried to comply with your dates since I know the spreadsheet has limits
1. change to biweekly one of the incomes from 1250 per pay period to 1300 per pay period. The 1st new pay period is feb 1, 2008. The excess biweekly yearly paychecks (2 per year I HAVE NOT ADDED TO DISCRETIONARY)
2. save $150 per month out of the budget this starts on 2-30-08 and continues throughout. apply to mortgage 3. spend $900 per month for 8.5 months from 7/30/08 to 5/15/09 4. deposit 3500 into principle on 9/30/2008 5 Withdraw 20,350 from equity line at 7% on 6/30/2009. You will need to factor in the interest. I will prove to you the software calculates the interest because when on # 10, I raise the interest rate from 7% to 18 % it changes the payoff date. (everyone ASS-U-MES it does not because I did not reconcile each month on the first 7 months of the original. When we execute the reconcile button on the heloc each month (MMA screen) it provides an entry to put the ACTUAL amount of intereset charged by the bank. One of my mistakes that everyone POUNCED on...but their assumption is 100% incorrect. So again, to be accurate, figure your interest. If you want figure it as a loan over a period of time like you did but add your interest 6. car loan of 12,000 60 MO AT 4.99%-- 4-30-2010 till 3-30-2015 you need to reduce your discretionary income by your monthly payment for 60 months. DO NOT pull it out of the equity line to pay off and not provide interest. I ran it both ways, from the equity line and from payments of your figure from discretionary for 60 months. the software matched equal either way. that showed that the equity line net interest was at the 4.99%. my presentation to you will show paying the monthly payment from discretionary income for 60 months 7. lose biweekly income on month 63 2-1-2013 8. save $500 per month of expenses on 2-28-2013 9. new biweekly income starting on 9-5-2014 10. raise interest from day one on equity line to 18%
I have completed my figures and will post now. (Since you were nice enough to post first last time)
MONEY MERGE ACCOUNT START PAYOFF PERIOD 6.75 YEARSSCENARIO PAYOFF 1. PAY RAISE OF $50 BIWEEKLY - PAYOFF - 6.667 YRS 8/2014 2. SAVE $150 MO IN BUDGET - PAYOFF - 6.25 YRS 3/2014 3. SPEND $900 FRO 8.5 MO - PAYOFF - 6.583 YRS 7/2014 4. DEPOSIT 3500 - PAYOFF - 6.417 YRS 5/2014 5. SPEND 20,350 FROM EQUITY - PAYOFF - 7.167 YRS 2/2015 TRUE COST IS $28,084 6. BUY CAR-12K PAY MO. PAYMENT PAYOFF - 7.583 YRS 7/2015 7. LOSE JOB OF BIWEEKLY ---------- OUT OF MONEY IN 35 MONTHS FROM EQUITY LINE 8. SAVE $500/MO IN CHILD CARE PAYOFF - 20.667 YRS 8/2028 9 NEW BIWEEKLY JOB - PAYOFF - 10.583 YRS 7/2018 10 RUN HELOC AT 18% FROM DAY ONE PAYOFF - 11.167 YRS 2/2019
PLEASED FIGURE ALL 10 SCENARIOS IF YOU CAN AND POST YOUR SPREADSHEET LIKE LAST TIME
THERE THEY ARE...WE CAN DO A WEBINAR SO YOU CAN SEE ME ENTER ALL THE FIGURES AS AGREED TO SO NO ONE CAN ACCUSE ME OF MISREPRESENTATIONS....
THE BALL IS IN YOUR COURT! LET'S SEE WHERE IS ALL LIES....IF YOU ARE TRUELY "SEARCHING FOR THE TRUTH"
P.S. YOU WERE RIGHT ABOUT THE GLITCH,,,I HAD TO RESET THE DEMO SOFTWARE.
lostdude said: LoL, he edited his opening statement here to say "30 years" instead of "15 years" to match the scam.com posting. Can't even keep the lies straight.
BTW. A realtor is not considered investment professional. At least, he was a realtor in Florida before the market crashed, now he sells this fantasy to the same group of clueless people Even lobbied city hall to allow tear down of old home. What a winner.
Google Rules.
HEY LOST....DUDE I THINK IT IS WONDERFUL YOU CAN GOOGLE.. I AM IMPRESSED...WHAT KIND OF WORK DO YOU DO? BEING LOST...HAVE THE GUTS TO PUT YOUR REAL NAME IN HERE??? I BET NOT. I WAS A FINANCIAL PLANNER AND REGISTERED INVESTMENT ADVISOR STARTING IN THE LATE 70'S AND THE 80'S FOR YOUR INFO. REGARDING THE OLD HOMES...I PUT TOGETHER THE LARGEST ASSEMBLAGE IN FLORIDA IN A POOR NEIGHBORHOOD TO COMPLETE A 400 MILLION PROJECT... GUESS WHAT, I WAS BLESSED TO HELP MANY POOR PEOPLE RECEIVE ANYWHERE FROM 150 TO 300% MORE THAN THEIR PROPERTIES WERE WORTH AT THE TOP OF THE MARKET IN 2005!!! SO MUCH FOR YOUR IGNORANCE....... DUUUUUDE!
PLEASED FIGURE ALL 10 SCENARIOS IF YOU CAN AND POST YOUR SPREADSHEET LIKE LAST TIME
THERE THEY ARE...WE CAN DO A WEBINAR SO YOU CAN SEE ME ENTER ALL THE FIGURES AS AGREED TO SO NO ONE CAN ACCUSE ME OF MISREPRESENTATIONS....
THE BALL IS IN YOUR COURT! LET'S SEE WHERE IS ALL LIES....IF YOU ARE TRUELY "SEARCHING FOR THE TRUTH"
P.S. YOU WERE RIGHT ABOUT THE GLITCH,,,I HAD TO RESET THE DEMO SOFTWARE.
I don't think anyone is interested in just the payoff date generated from the UFF scamware. What we want is monthly figures showing balances at the end of each month. There should be no reason why you can't simply post them here. We can't analyze a single date spit out by a black box piece of software (that we don't trust).
PLEASED FIGURE ALL 10 SCENARIOS IF YOU CAN AND POST YOUR SPREADSHEET LIKE LAST TIME
THERE THEY ARE...WE CAN DO A WEBINAR SO YOU CAN SEE ME ENTER ALL THE FIGURES AS AGREED TO SO NO ONE CAN ACCUSE ME OF MISREPRESENTATIONS....
THE BALL IS IN YOUR COURT! LET'S SEE WHERE IS ALL LIES....IF YOU ARE TRUELY "SEARCHING FOR THE TRUTH"
P.S. YOU WERE RIGHT ABOUT THE GLITCH,,,I HAD TO RESET THE DEMO SOFTWARE.
I don't think anyone is interested in just the payoff date generated from the UFF scamware. What we want is monthly figures showing balances at the end of each month. There should be no reason why you can't simply post them here. We can't analyze a single date spit out by a black box piece of software (that we don't trust).
the software math underlying the "dashboard" is proprietary... run your numbers and let's all see where it ends up.... I cannot do anything about your mistrust of the numbers....i do beleive that is they were wrong...some or many of the 120,000+ plus clients would be calling them on it if they were skewed.
JamesHughbanks said: the software math underlying the "dashboard" is proprietary... run your numbers and let's all see where it ends up.... I cannot do anything about your mistrust of the numbers....i do beleive that is they were wrong...some or many of the 120,000+ plus clients would be calling them on it if they were skewed. Then your product is a fraud..... just like you. It's obvious you don't understand the calculations at all. Your blind faith in the number approach matches your "interest cancellation" and "front-loaded" mortgage claims nicely. I just wonder why you could post the cashflows yesterday, but not today.
Nothing is worse than a fool except maybe a liar or a cheater. I finished you off earlier when I posted: I said: This is nothing short of ridiculous. People come to this board to live frugally and/or save money. If the product you sell worked as billed, FWF'ers would be all over it like sliced bread. In fact, your product is a horrible value, completely unnecessary and frankly harmful to accelerating a mortgage payoff. This is why so many people waste so much time debunking your patter.
Here are some pertinent facts that you choose to ignore or have no answer to: 1. Obvious arithmetic and logic errors in the few numbers you post in support of your claim 2. Recognition of nonsense sales terms such as "front-loaded interest" and "interest cancellation" 3. Your lack of accounting for HELOC interest and repayment in any of the numbers you provide 4. Your lack or math/science analytical skills 5. Your conflict of interest in accepting $2500 commission selling a non-performing product to relatives and fellow parishioners at church 6. Your constant obfuscation and goal post moving scenarios when your numbers are not accurate for the simplest of models.
You, my friend, have lost the argument you are so vehemently clinging to.
JamesHughbanks said: I cannot do anything about your mistrust of the numbers....i do beleive that is they were wrong...some or many of the 120,000+ plus clients would be calling them on it if they were skewed.
120,000+?
In an April 9th article in the L.A. Times, UFF claims 10,000 customers.
At this point, I have to ask: Are you capable of getting any numbers right?
I mean, you're off by a factor of 12 here. That's even bad by your previous standards.
And we can't expect any of the 10,000 clients they do have to call them on math errors, because we're not dealing with mathematical geniuses when we talk about people who pay $3500 for the MMA.
all i can say is run your numbers so we all can see the truth...or are you a big mouth CHICKEN????
delzy said: JamesHughbanks said: the software math underlying the "dashboard" is proprietary... run your numbers and let's all see where it ends up.... I cannot do anything about your mistrust of the numbers....i do beleive that is they were wrong...some or many of the 120,000+ plus clients would be calling them on it if they were skewed. Then your product is a fraud..... just like you. It's obvious you don't understand the calculations at all. Your blind faith in the number approach matches your "interest cancellation" and "front-loaded" mortgage claims nicely. I just wonder why you could post the cashflows yesterday, but not today.
Nothing is worse than a fool except maybe a liar or a cheater. I finished you off earlier when I posted: I said: This is nothing short of ridiculous. People come to this board to live frugally and/or save money. If the product you sell worked as billed, FWF'ers would be all over it like sliced bread. In fact, your product is a horrible value, completely unnecessary and frankly harmful to accelerating a mortgage payoff. This is why so many people waste so much time debunking your patter.
Here are some pertinent facts that you choose to ignore or have no answer to: 1. Obvious arithmetic and logic errors in the few numbers you post in support of your claim 2. Recognition of nonsense sales terms such as "front-loaded interest" and "interest cancellation" 3. Your lack of accounting for HELOC interest and repayment in any of the numbers you provide 4. Your lack or math/science analytical skills 5. Your conflict of interest in accepting $2500 commission selling a non-performing product to relatives and fellow parishioners at church 6. Your constant obfuscation and goal post moving scenarios when your numbers are not accurate for the simplest of models.
You, my friend, have lost the argument you are so vehemently clinging to.
delzy said: I'm not the one selling anything here. but you are full of accusations.... sorry when someone questions my integrity or honesty...the gloves come off...when the dust settles for all of us..that is all we have left.. if i am doing wrong with uff, i will be the first to quit...but i cannot make that decision until someone comes to the table with the right numbers.. i don't beleive it is the case...but anybody can be wrong
please show me so we all can go on... if i am right, i would expect all on here kicking me to death to turn the corner and investigate how this will benefit them and their families or businesses
From the article linked to above "It's a great contribution that we're making to the American family," said Greg Somerville, a California sales agent for the company.
He said sales have gotten tougher in recent months because of the anemic housing market. As the value of people's homes declines, the available equity for lines of credit evaporates.
As a result, Somerville said he's increasingly steering customers into accelerated mortgage plans that hinge not on lines of credit but on credit cards.
You heard that right. In such cases, you're borrowing from a credit card to pay down your mortgage. And you'd better hope you don't miss any card payments or you'll get slapped with a passel of late fees and see your interest rate soar to around 30%.
JamesHughbanks said: delzy said: I'm not the one selling anything here. but you are full of accusations.... sorry when someone questions my integrity or honesty...the gloves come off...when the dust settles for all of us..that is all we have left.. if i am doing wrong with uff, i will be the first to quit...but i cannot make that decision until someone comes to the table with the right numbers.. i don't beleive it is the case...but anybody can be wrong
please show me so we all can go on... if i am right, i would expect all on here kicking me to death to turn the corner and investigate how this will benefit them and their families or businesses
People can only show you when you post your monthly balance numbers, you posted some up yesterday and they were full of errors, simply do the same with the CORRECT numbers showing balances every month in each account and then people can compare to theirs. If your product is superior it should be readily apparent, and don't claim you can't post the monthly balances, you already did they were just wrong.
delzy said: EricGo07 said: cphansen said: April 9th article in the L.A. Times, UFF claims 10,000 customers.
"United First Financial says it has about 10,000 customers nationwide."I wonder how many of them are agents. All of them. Remeber, you have to be stupid enough to buy the product to sell it. That's why you see the quality of the reps who show up here.I thought it cost $175 to become an agent. Are you sure that an agent has to be a victim of the scam too ?
JamesHughbanks said: sorry when someone questions my integrity or honesty...
Yes or no. Does simply putting your disposable income towards pre-paying a 30 year mortgage (for example the challenge senerio) pay off the mortgage sooner than using MMA under identical condtions except for the $3500 cost of buying the software?
JamesHughbanks said: if i am doing wrong with uff, i will be the first to quit..Perhaps you missed my earlier post (and following one that calculates HELOC ADB more accurately)? I know you have trouble following arithmetic, so pay close attention to this sentence: the post shows that buying into the scam costs $3500, and then close to $100 every month thereafter when opportunity cost from the fee, dumb management of the HELOC, and loss of checking account interest is taken into account.
EricGo07 said: delzy said: EricGo07 said: cphansen said: April 9th article in the L.A. Times, UFF claims 10,000 customers.
"United First Financial says it has about 10,000 customers nationwide."I wonder how many of them are agents. All of them. Remeber, you have to be stupid enough to buy the product to sell it. That's why you see the quality of the reps who show up here.I thought it cost $175 to become an agent. Are you sure that an agent has to be a customer too ? I really don't know or care. I'm just ripping on them.
the monthly balances will only show for 6-7 months...and that is only if i execute the budgeted transaction. I have som many senarios and differnt dates that the underlying algorythyms is what is calculating it I was rushed yesterday and made some mistakes...i admit it...i took my time today to make sure the scenarios and entries were accurate...all of you jumped the gun too because if you would have compared antonu's spreadsheet to the requested scenario,,many things were different and not completed...so let's wipe the slate clean and get down to business...antonu's spreadsheet is close but needs to be tweaked some...so why not just do it...you will be my starting number before we made any changes is .25 yrs longer payoff than yours...so as you can see ..i am interested in taking the good with the bad...wherever that may be
BSRdr said: JamesHughbanks said: delzy said: I'm not the one selling anything here. but you are full of accusations.... sorry when someone questions my integrity or honesty...the gloves come off...when the dust settles for all of us..that is all we have left.. if i am doing wrong with uff, i will be the first to quit...but i cannot make that decision until someone comes to the table with the right numbers.. i don't beleive it is the case...but anybody can be wrong
please show me so we all can go on... if i am right, i would expect all on here kicking me to death to turn the corner and investigate how this will benefit them and their families or businesses
People can only show you when you post your monthly balance numbers, you posted some up yesterday and they were full of errors, simply do the same with the CORRECT numbers showing balances every month in each account and then people can compare to theirs. If your product is superior it should be readily apparent, and don't claim you can't post the monthly balances, you already did they were just wrong.
delzy said: EricGo07 said: delzy said: EricGo07 said: cphansen said: April 9th article in the L.A. Times, UFF claims 10,000 customers.
"United First Financial says it has about 10,000 customers nationwide."I wonder how many of them are agents. All of them. Remeber, you have to be stupid enough to buy the product to sell it. That's why you see the quality of the reps who show up here.I thought it cost $175 to become an agent. Are you sure that an agent has to be a customer too ? I really don't know or care. I'm just ripping on them.Rip away -- I know the feeling. But try to rip with facts, so that casual readers do not conclude that this forum's regulars do not know what they are talking about. Remember that our goal here, and presumably yours too, is to steer people away from the scam.
that is all i want to know..good or bad...why doesn't anyone else want to see..most all of you have been bashing uff for so long, i beleive you may not want to see the truth now
mhesidence said: JamesHughbanks said: sorry when someone questions my integrity or honesty...
Yes or no. Does simply putting your disposable income towards pre-paying a 30 year mortgage (for example the challenge senerio) pay off the mortgage sooner than using MMA under identical condtions except for the $3500 cost of buying the software?
mhesidence said: JamesHughbanks said: sorry when someone questions my integrity or honesty...
Yes or no. Does simply putting your disposable income towards pre-paying a 30 year mortgage (for example the challenge senerio) pay off the mortgage sooner than using MMA under identical condtions except for the $3500 cost of buying the software?
JamesHughbanks, "man of integrity", could you please answer the simple question above asked by mhesidence. It's a simple yes or no question. Yes or no.
Choose one of the following and only one: A) Yes B) No
I think from now on, we should start asking only one question at a time, a very simple one like the one above for the shills. This way, they cannot go off tangent and make rants without sounding like they are avoiding the question.
I'm sorry, i thought the purpose of this forum was to find the truth....if it is truly a scam, (i don't beleive it is, but i may be wrong) i will help fight it.... but what if all of you have judged it too soon?? will you change or just continue with your game plan?. I am sure many of you are math wizzes, and i respect that...i will tell you it is the best spreadsheet i have seen..but the issue is this: does the MMA really just take the discretionary and apply it to the mortgage, or does it do what it represents though various. That's what the scenario calculations are all about...MMA represents that it is dynamic and smart software.. let's see for sure!
EricGo07 said: delzy said: EricGo07 said: delzy said: EricGo07 said: cphansen said: April 9th article in the L.A. Times, UFF claims 10,000 customers.
"United First Financial says it has about 10,000 customers nationwide."I wonder how many of them are agents. All of them. Remeber, you have to be stupid enough to buy the product to sell it. That's why you see the quality of the reps who show up here.I thought it cost $175 to become an agent. Are you sure that an agent has to be a customer too ? I really don't know or care. I'm just ripping on them.Rip away -- I know the feeling. But try to rip with facts, so that casual readers do not conclude that this forum's regulars do not know what they are talking about. Remember that our goal here, and presumably yours too, is to steer people away from the scam.
synnyster said: mhesidence said: JamesHughbanks said: sorry when someone questions my integrity or honesty...
Yes or no. Does simply putting your disposable income towards pre-paying a 30 year mortgage (for example the challenge senerio) pay off the mortgage sooner than using MMA under identical condtions except for the $3500 cost of buying the software?
JamesHughbanks, "man of integrity", could you please answer the simple question above asked by mhesidence. It's a simple yes or no question. Yes or no.
Choose one of the following and only one: A) Yes B) No
Could you do that for us.
The answer is YES...but your job is to prove me wrong... so let's get to it...If i am wrong I will admit it...if you are wrong, will you admit it?
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