United First Financial - Looking for the truth

The comments area of the Kiplinger's article has turned into a UFF agent meeting place. I recently submitted a comment that is waiting for review.

http://www.kiplinger.com/magazine/archives/2008/05/prepay_mortgage.html

if you look closley, the year was the wrong number not the calender,,if you are into software, then you know software can temporaily lock up and you know it's a temporary problem...you reset... also, yeaterdays number had different dates that I told you in the scenario...don't worry, i have complied new figures based on your spreadsheet dates. ..you need to make the adjustments as i mentioned...i posted my numbers beofore investigating your spreadsheet...now i'm accurate...if you want me to prove it to you via live entry on a private webinar,..let's do it..please go through the list and tweek your actions based on descriptions above the numbers..you know what,,,i can't lie about what it does...cause i can't control the underlying calculations,,just the entries. When you see it live personaly, you will know and understand...you are the only one that has put a lot of work in this besides me..everyone else is just tooting their horn...let's you and me finish this right and make our work and dedication have accurate meaning and value...as you said "Do you want the truth about the Money Merge Account? That's the whole purpose for the forum. I do either way..OK?

anthonyu said: JamesHughbanks said: ---snip---
Dude! Welcome back! As I mentioned in my post on Tuesday night, I'm working at the client's site Wednesday and Thursday so I'll be busy most of the day with meetings and demos. But before I or anyone else do anything with your scenarios, you first have to come clean with the bogus payoff dates you posted. I am a software developer so don't give me all that crap about "the glitch" and "resetting the demo software". If we put out a product that gives out random/bogus payoff dates, I and everybody else in my department will be fired on the spot. I'm sure UFF won't do something as stupid as that to their 120,000 imaginary customers. So in line with this thread's search for the truth, please tell us which one of the following is true:

1. You were surprised that the stupid little spreadsheet and your $3500 software gave similar projections to your scenarios so you decided to change the payoff dates to make it look like your software pays off the loan much sooner. But you were not smart enough to actually post the software's projected duration causing us to figure out that you just made up the payoff dates to make the software look better.
OR
2. Your beloved software is a $3500 piece of $h%t that can accurately project the loan duration but decides to give out random/bogus payoff dates instead, just because all their 120,000 customers wouldn't know the difference anyway.

So which one is it?

JH,

I think it is fair to say that you were quite gung-ho about the UFF software. I guess you could say you were a 10 out of 10 on the proponent scale. Given the information that has come to light during this discussion, where would you rate yourself now on this scale? Are you beginning to have doubts? Might you feel a little bad about what you may have done to your sister or others? Are you still a 10/10 or have you slid down the scale a bit?

Finally, if you do decide that the UFF software is not all that it is cracked up to be will you return your commission ($2500) to those that you have sold the software to? Will you take the extra $1000 out of your own pocket to make up the difference and make these people whole? Furthermore, will you dig even deeper and make up for the inefficiency that UFF has introduced into these people's mortgage payoffs?

I guess what I'm asking is, as a Christian, will you do the right thing by the people that you have scammed (if we are able to convince you that you have scammed them)?

I capitulated, and spent 5 minutes learning how to make a trivial spreadsheet. Then I spent another 10 minutes on my first exercise, UFF_lite uploaded as a google document. It is not pretty, but I think it does enough to play the scenarios jhb outlined, at least through 119 months.

It is free, unprotected, and about as useful as the UFF crap.

JamesHughbanks said: I do not lie so get off it...you just make mistakes...... constantly, and by mistakes, I mean mistyping "MMA will never come out ahead of prepayments on your own" as "MMA will come out ahead in complex situations." that's some spelling problem you have

heck, you haven't even gotten the first simple scenario correct. and, well, you "mistakenly" misread the key output....of the software you sell for a living.

so have you had your fingers crossed permanently through surgery to simplify the process?

here comes the hate monster!!!! who cares about my spelling on a forum,, this is not a formal business meeting, just a few buch of punks like you blowin your horn...

calvinandhobbes said: JamesHughbanks said: I do not lie so get off it...you just make mistakes...... constantly, and by mistakes, I mean mistyping "MMA will never come out ahead of prepayments on your own" as "MMA will come out ahead in complex situations." that's some spelling problem you have

heck, you haven't even gotten the first simple scenario correct. and, well, you "mistakenly" misread the key output....of the software you sell for a living.

so have you had your fingers crossed permanently through surgery to simplify the process?

Anthony, why are you waeting your time with this reteric and not putting in the numbers and corrections? or have you already done it and do not want to post the results?

anthonyu said: Sorry, you cannot continue to lie and deny it. Look at your post when you displayed your results. Pay attention to scenario 3. You forgot to change Scenario 3 on top so it showed the correct projected date.

JamesHughbanks said: anthonyu said:
JamesHughbanks, so can you paste the results from your software. When will the mortgage be paid off with all those scenarios. My spreadsheet says 3/2018.
i requested a payoff after each event that lead up to your final figure

All you have to do is delete all the data for each scenario starting from scenario 9 going up and clicking on Calculate after each delete.

Scenario 6: 10/2015 MMA 7.75 yrs 10/2004
Scenario 5: 4/2015 MMA 7.417 yrs 6/2014 true cost $27,726.68
Scenario 4: 7/2015 MMA 6.75 yrs 10/2013
Scenario 3: 9/2014 MMA 6.833 yrs 9/2014
Scenario 2: 5/2014 MMA 6.583 yrs 8/2013
Scenario 1: 1/2014 MMA 5.917 yrs 10/2013

If you look at the spreadsheet, I can show you the balance, interest and pre-payment amount EVERY MONTH for the duration of the mortgage for each of your scenario.

What's your result?

I'm off to do real work for the next few hours, but I'll be curious to find out how far off I am from your software's results. It will also be good if you can post the transactions as a result of each scenario, like I do with the spreadsheet. Maybe you'll convince me to spend $3500 for your software.


Here are the results on the only posted answers on the thread I could find

ANTHONU'S RESULTS MONEY MERGE ACCOUNT
Scenario 6 BUY CAR 12K :10/2015 MMA 7.75 yrs 10/2014 save 12 mo
Scenario 5 SEPND 23,350 : 4/2015 MMA 7.417 yrs 6/2014 true cost $27726
Scenario 4 DEPOSIT 3.5K SUM : 7/2015 MMA 6.75 Yrs 10/2013 saved - 21 mo
Scenario 3 ADD-900 EX./8.5O : 9/2014 MMA 6.833 yrs 11/2013 saved - 10 mo
Scenario 2 BUDGET DROP $150 : 5/2014 MMA 6.583 yrs 8/2013 saved - 9 mo
Scenario 1 PAY RAISE $50 : 1/2014 MMA 5.917 yrs 10/2013 saved - 3 mo

JamesHughbanks said: Anthony, why are you waeting your time with this reteric and not putting in the numbers and corrections? or have you already done it and do not want to post the results?

Its not even reading and replying intelligently now, just trolling.

JamesHughbanks said: i always try to do the right thiong...i will tell you right now, if ANY of the people i sold are not happy and wants their money back i will give them $3500. the problem is that i cannot find any of them that are unhappy...but as a Christian, i will strive to do what is right is God's eye,,,which includes never taking advantage of others...i have a history of not taking advantage of others..it ususally is the other way around

galabar said: JH,

I think it is fair to say that you were quite gung-ho about the UFF software. I guess you could say you were a 10 out of 10 on the proponent scale. Given the information that has come to light during this discussion, where would you rate yourself now on this scale? Are you beginning to have doubts? Might you feel a little bad about what you may have done to your sister or others? Are you still a 10/10 or have you slid down the scale a bit?

Finally, if you do decide that the UFF software is not all that it is cracked up to be will you return your commission ($2500) to those that you have sold the software to? Will you take the extra $1000 out of your own pocket to make up the difference and make these people whole? Furthermore, will you dig even deeper and make up for the inefficiency that UFF has introduced into these people's mortgage payoffs?

I guess what I'm asking is, as a Christian, will you do the right thing by the people that you have scammed (if we are able to convince you that you have scammed them)?

Hmm, that is not exactly what I asked, is it? I asked if you would return the money if you came to the conclusion that the software was not worth the price paid. Of course, you would have to deprogram those that you originally hyped and sold it to. How would they come to you unhappy with the program if they were foolish enough to purchase it in the first place? They have no idea what is going on. You would have to explain it to them (and then return their money).

So, I ask again, if you come to the conclusion that the software is not worth the price paid, will you return the money (even if the customer seems happy)?

p.s. I think the worst fallout from the Bill/Monica episode was all this semantic parsing that we have to deal with now adays.

p.p.s You also conveniently ignored my question about returning the money representing the UFF inefficiency in paying down your customer's mortgages. Could you answer that as well? Damn you Slick Willy!

the reason i klnow is i communicate with each one of them to make sure they are happy ,,,,maybe you have never heard of service and follow up after the salegalabar said: JamesHughbanks said: i always try to do the right thiong...i will tell you right now, if ANY of the people i sold are not happy and wants their money back i will give them $3500. the problem is that i cannot find any of them that are unhappy...but as a Christian, i will strive to do what is right is God's eye,,,which includes never taking advantage of others...i have a history of not taking advantage of others..it ususally is the other way around

galabar said: JH,

I think it is fair to say that you were quite gung-ho about the UFF software. I guess you could say you were a 10 out of 10 on the proponent scale. Given the information that has come to light during this discussion, where would you rate yourself now on this scale? Are you beginning to have doubts? Might you feel a little bad about what you may have done to your sister or others? Are you still a 10/10 or have you slid down the scale a bit?

Finally, if you do decide that the UFF software is not all that it is cracked up to be will you return your commission ($2500) to those that you have sold the software to? Will you take the extra $1000 out of your own pocket to make up the difference and make these people whole? Furthermore, will you dig even deeper and make up for the inefficiency that UFF has introduced into these people's mortgage payoffs?

I guess what I'm asking is, as a Christian, will you do the right thing by the people that you have scammed (if we are able to convince you that you have scammed them)?

Hmm, that is not exactly what I asked, is it? I asked if you would return the money if you came to the conclusion that the software was not worth the price paid. Of course, you would have to deprogram those that you originally hyped and sold it to. How would they come to you unhappy with the program if they were foolish enough to purchase it in the first place? They have no idea what is going on. You would have to explain it to them (and then return their money).

So, I ask again, if you come to the conclusion that the software is not worth the price paid, will you return the money (even if the customer seems happy)?

p.s. I think the worst fallout from the Bill/Monica episode was all this semantic parsing that we have to deal with now adays.

p.p.s You also conveniently ignored my question about returning the money representing the UFF inefficiency in paying down your customer's mortgages. Could you answer that as well? Damn you Slick Willy!

Simply put, please give me the total interest paid for a $200,000 mortgage with $3000 expenses per month (not biweekly) and $2,000 extra income per month (not biweekly). Give me the time it would take to pay off the mortgage with UFF software and the total interest paid on the HELOC and Mortgage in that amount of time.

This should take you seconds to compute so I will expect:

1) A dollar amount of total interest paid
2) The time it took to pay off the mortgage and HELOC

synnyster said: JamesHughbanks said:
3. i do simulate every scenario with the software...you are probably right that it is simply impossible with basic math algebra and logic... that is the point...the software does much more than those basic tools...the "several pages ago" did not have accurate apple to apple on each side..that is what anthony will update since he did the work as i have updated and posted my numbers...let's wait and see...sometimes logic doesn't make sense when we don't did deep enough

You know, this is pointless if JHB does not even know how to read. I see nowhere in his statements that he said it is "simply impossibe with basic math algebra and logic". So the software does much more than use algebra and logic? What does it do then? sacrifice goats? We are dealing with numbers here where it all about math and logic. How else d you think the software does it? This is hilarious.

Thanks for the laugh. It is not the software, it is the handlers. You don't really rank at UFF until you have sacrificed several of your goats at FWF.

AnthonyU, if you want to play the SS scenarios with Jhb fine, but do not expect him to admit cheating.

Good christians do not cheat. It is a tautology.

JamesHughbanks said: i have a history of not taking advantage of others..it ususally is the other way around Your upline, for example?

JHB, because the Lord forgives the cheaters and the liars, I'll let you play again. Clarify your scenarios based on my comments. On the way home, I was thinking of a way to show very clearly what goes on every month. I'll update my spreadsheet and post the results after you clarify the scenarios.

JamesHughbanks said:
I wanted to inform you that while I have made a few mistakes, so have you in your calculations compared to my request.
We are all human and that is OK.I did not make any mistake in the spreadsheet calculation, as proven by the similar results projected by your software. You may be referring to 1 typo that I made, but the spreadsheet calculation clearly shows what the correct date should be. YOU made the mistake of making up the bogus dates without taking out or adjusting the software's actual projected duration. And you got caught, an even bigger mistake.Here we Go:

I have redone the layout so there is no 11/30/08 income it starts on 12-15...5k deposit starts on 12-1... let's review the scenario so our figures are accurate. 3500 OUT OF EQUITY LINE OF 60K- START BALANCE OF 56,500. I have gone through your notes on your spreadsheet and have tried to comply with your dates since I know the spreadsheet has limitsThe only limits are in the human mind. If you can think it, the spreadsheet can represent it. You have to post your transactions for the 1st 6 months, the way you did earlier. That's the only way we can find out that you're actually making an almost $9K prepayment as soon as the loan got signed and that you are claiming a 3rd $2.5K salary during the first month. I'm not saying that it's wrong, we just need to make an apples to apples comparison. Imagine if the spreadsheet calculated everything perfectly like last time, but will always come out behind becase we never knew that you put that in. I post all my transactions and interest, balance and prepayment amount for each month for the duration of the mortgage.1. change to biweekly one of the incomes from 1250 per pay period to 1300 per pay period. The 1st new pay period is feb 1, 2008. The excess biweekly yearly paychecks (2 per year I HAVE NOT ADDED TO DISCRETIONARY)Dude, when you make $1300 twice a month ($1300 x 24 = $31200) and the Company's pay period gets switched to every 2 weeks, you do not get 26 $1300 payments ($33800). There is no "excess 2 paychecks per year". You get paid $1200 ($31200 / 26) every 2 weeks. The annual salary does not change. If you're claiming it does, you have to disclose that the person got another increase worth 2 paychecks. The Company does not all of a sudden give you 2 bonus paychecks every year. This 24 vs. 26 paychecks is often used/abused by the scammers so they can project that you're making more money than what you actually make. Fortunately, almost everybody in this thread is familiar with that trick.
2. save $150 per month out of the budget this starts on 2-30-08 and continues throughoutDude, in our world, there is no such date as 2-30-08. Our February is only 28 or 29 days long. Also, how were you able to shave 5 months off your loan from #1 to #2 when Scenario 2 calls for a $150 reduction in your pre-payment because you're putting $150 in a savings account? Are you making up bogus payoff dates again? Are you adding $150 to the pre-payment instead of reducing it by $50? Please re-do your projections or clarify your scenario.
3. spend $900 per month for 8.5 months from 7/30/08 to 5/15/09Dude, check your calendar again. Apparently the "software glitch" in your $3500 software is still there. Or maybe you're using the demo software again. 7/30/08 to 5/15/09 is 9.5 months. And if you really start your 1st payment on 7/30/08, that's 10.5 months worth of payments. Count the number of payments you made for that time period so that we're clear.
4. deposit 3500 into principle on 9/30/2008OK. It's principal, not principle...but I digress.

5 Withdraw 20,350 from equity line at 7% on 6/30/2009. You will need to factor in the interest. I will prove to you the software calculates the interest because when on # 10, I raise the interest rate from 7% to 18 % it changes the payoff date. (everyone ASS-U-MES it does not because I did not reconcile each month on the first 7 months of the original. When we execute the reconcile button on the heloc each month (MMA screen) it provides an entry to put the ACTUAL amount of intereset charged by the bank. One of my mistakes that everyone POUNCED on...but their assumption is 100% incorrect. So again, to be accurate, figure your interest. If you want figure it as a loan over a period of time like you did but add your interestOK. So that we get the whole picture, let's factor in the estimated monthly HELOC interest incurred beginning in Month 1 and add that to the HELOC balance monthly.
6. car loan of 12,000 60 MO AT 4.99%-- 4-30-2010 till 3-30-2015 you need to reduce your discretionary income by your monthly payment for 60 months. DO NOT pull it out of the equity line to pay off and not provide interest. I ran it both ways, from the equity line and from payments of your figure from discretionary for 60 months. the software matched equal either way. that showed that the equity line net interest was at the 4.99%. my presentation to you will show paying the monthly payment from discretionary income for 60 monthsThe only reason I paid off the car after 2.5 years and used the HELOC to do so is because you said so in this post, and I quote: "GIVE ME YOUR PAYOFF DATE buy the car at year 2.5". I'm just following your rules, man. I don't make things up, unlike others in this thread. And just so we're clear, is 4/30/2010 the day you got the loan, meaning 1st payment is due on 5/30/2010, or is 4/30/2010 already your first payment?
7. lose biweekly income on month 63 2-1-2013OK, now it's a lot clearer that 7, 8 and 9 are all related. In your earlier post, only scenario 9 actually had clear parameters.
8. save $500 per month of expenses on 2-28-2013OK. I'm glad your software has figured out that there are only 28 days in Feb 2013. The Y2K bug in your software has been fixed.
9. new biweekly income starting on 9-5-2014OK

10. raise interest from day one on equity line to 18%OK

You have posted your scenarios twice already. In both cases, I have found multiple errors and incomplete information to be able to make an informed decision, so I don't know if it's carelessness or just a lack of understanding on your own scenarios. I guess the software may tell the user his payoff date, but it does not necessarily make him any smarter.
THE BALL IS IN YOUR COURT! LET'S SEE WHERE IS ALL LIES....IF YOU ARE TRUELY "SEARCHING FOR THE TRUTH"Dude, the ball's always in your court because you're the one that's already down by $3500 so you have to prove that it's worth your every penny. We don't need to prove anything. My spreadsheet is free. My mind, however, priceless. The only lies that I have seen lately are the bogus payoff dates that you posted.

anthonyu said: JHB, because the Lord forgives the cheaters and the liars, I'll let you play again. Clarify your scenarios based on my comments. On the way home, I was thinking of a way to show very clearly what goes on every month. I'll update my spreadsheet and post the results after you clarify the scenarios.

JamesHughbanks said:
I wanted to inform you that while I have made a few mistakes, so have you in your calculations compared to my request.
We are all human and that is OK.I did not make any mistake in the spreadsheet calculation, as proven by the similar results projected by your software. You may be referring to 1 typo that I made, but the spreadsheet calculation clearly shows what the correct date should be. YOU made the mistake of making up the bogus dates without taking out or adjusting the software's actual projected duration. And you got caught, an even bigger mistake.Here we Go:

I have redone the layout so there is no 11/30/08 income it starts on 12-15...5k deposit starts on 12-1... let's review the scenario so our figures are accurate. 3500 OUT OF EQUITY LINE OF 60K- START BALANCE OF 56,500. I have gone through your notes on your spreadsheet and have tried to comply with your dates since I know the spreadsheet has limitsThe only limits are in the human mind. If you can think it, the spreadsheet can represent it. You have to post your transactions for the 1st 6 months, the way you did earlier. That's the only way we can find out that you're actually making an almost $9K prepayment as soon as the loan got signed and that you are claiming a 3rd $2.5K salary during the first month. I'm not saying that it's wrong, we just need to make an apples to apples comparison. Imagine if the spreadsheet calculated everything perfectly like last time, but will always come out behind becase we never knew that you put that in. I post all my transactions and interest, balance and prepayment amount for each month for the duration of the mortgage. I DID NOT EXECUTE THE TRANSACTIONS, I JUST KEPT PUTTING IN THE SCENARIO AND THE SOFTWARE SAID THE NUMBER ON PAYOFF..SINCE YOU CONTINUE TO THINK I AM A LIAR...YOU WILL HAVE TO SEE FOR YOURSELF MY ENTRIES "LIVE"1. change to biweekly one of the incomes from 1250 per pay period to 1300 per pay period. The 1st new pay period is feb 1, 2008. The excess biweekly yearly paychecks (2 per year I HAVE NOT ADDED TO DISCRETIONARY)Dude, when you make $1300 twice a month ($1300 x 24 = $31200) and the Company's pay period gets switched to every 2 weeks, you do not get 26 $1300 payments ($33800). There is no "excess 2 paychecks per year". You get paid $1200 ($31200 / 26) every 2 weeks. The annual salary does not change. If you're claiming it does, you have to disclose that the person got another increase worth 2 paychecks. The Company does not all of a sudden give you 2 bonus paychecks every year. This 24 vs. 26 paychecks is often used/abused by the scammers so they can project that you're making more money than what you actually make. Fortunately, almost everybody in this thread is familiar with that trick. IT IS NOT A TRICK, THE SCENARIO REPRESENTED A JOB PROMOTION TO A SALARY POSITION, $50 INCREASE PER PAY PERIOD) (1300 PER PAY PERIOD TOTAL) AND BI-WEEKLY,,,ON THE SOFTWARE ENTRY OF THE INCOME YOU WILL BE ABLE TO SEE A CHOICE THE CLIENT CAN MAKE TO PUT THE EXTRA PAYCHECKS IN DISCRETIONARY OR NOT...I SAID NO ..YOU WILL SEE FOR YOURSELF. I HAVE MADE A PDF OF EACH SCREEN I ENTERED SO I WOULD BE ABLE TO VERIFY QUESTIONS.
2. save $150 per month out of the budget this starts on 2-30-08 and continues throughoutDude, in our world, there is no such date as 2-30-08. Our February is only 28 or 29 days long. Also, how were you able to shave 5 months off your loan from #1 to #2 when Scenario 2 calls for a $150 reduction in your pre-payment because you're putting $150 in a savings account? Are you making up bogus payoff dates again? Are you adding $150 to the pre-payment instead of reducing it by $50? Please re-do your projections or clarify your scenario. THE 150 SAVINGS IN THE BUDGET IS GOING INTO DICRETIONARY ON MY END..SO TO MAKE IT THE SAME ON YOURS...PLACE THE 150 AS A PRINCIPAL PAYMENT. THE SOFTWARE AUTOMATICALLY PICKS THE 29TH OR 28TH DEPENDING ON THE YEAR AND THE 30TH ON THE OTHER MONTHS
3. spend $900 per month for 8.5 months from 7/30/08 to 5/15/09Dude, check your calendar again. Apparently the "software glitch" in your $3500 software is still there. Or maybe you're using the demo software again. 7/30/08 to 5/15/09 is 9.5 months. And if you really start your 1st payment on 7/30/08, that's 10.5 months worth of payments. Count the number of payments you made for that time period so that we're clear. I MUST HAVE COUNTED MONTHS TOO MANY...USE THE ACTUAL DATE I STATED IF IT IS 10 MONTHS THEN USE 10 MONTHS
4. deposit 3500 into principle on 9/30/2008OK. It's principal, not principle...but I digress. I AM CONSTANTLY RUSHING TO TYPE SINCE I AM BOMBARDED FROM AL SIDES ON THIS FORUM..I CAN HAVE ANYWHERE FROM 5-10 OF YOU GANGING UP ON ME AT ONCE..SO DEAL WITH MY MISPELLINGS PLEASE...EVERYONE IS SO CONCERNED ABOUT MY SPELLING MAYBE SOME OF YOU ARE LOOKING FOR A SECRETARIAL POSISTION,,I HAVE AN OPENING
5 Withdraw 20,350 from equity line at 7% on 6/30/2009. You will need to factor in the interest. I will prove to you the software calculates the interest because when on # 10, I raise the interest rate from 7% to 18 % it changes the payoff date. (everyone ASS-U-MES it does not because I did not reconcile each month on the first 7 months of the original. When we execute the reconcile button on the heloc each month (MMA screen) it provides an entry to put the ACTUAL amount of intereset charged by the bank. One of my mistakes that everyone POUNCED on...but their assumption is 100% incorrect. So again, to be accurate, figure your interest. If you want figure it as a loan over a period of time like you did but add your interestOK. So that we get the whole picture, let's factor in the estimated monthly HELOC interest incurred beginning in Month 1 and add that to the HELOC balance monthly. THE SOFTWARE DOES IT FOR THE LIFE OF THE LAON AND IS INCLUDE UP TO THE MONTH THAT WE RECONCILE THE HELOC BANK STAGTEMENT AND PUT EXACT IN...DO IT WHAT WAY YOU NEED TO MATCH I DID NOT EEXECUTE ANY TRANSACTIONS, SO THE HELOC WILL FIGURE FROM DAY 1 WITHOUT ME ENTERING IN AN AMOUNT.[Q=]
6. car loan of 12,000 60 MO AT 4.99%-- 4-30-2010 till 3-30-2015 you need to reduce your discretionary income by your monthly payment for 60 months. DO NOT pull it out of the equity line to pay off and not provide interest. I ran it both ways, from the equity line and from payments of your figure from discretionary for 60 months. the software matched equal either way. that showed that the equity line net interest was at the 4.99%. my presentation to you will show paying the monthly payment from discretionary income for 60 monthsThe only reason I paid off the car after 2.5 years and used the HELOC to do so is because you said so in this post, and I quote: "GIVE ME YOUR PAYOFF DATE buy the car at year 2.5". I'm just following your rules, man. I don't make things up, unlike others in this thread. And just so we're clear, is 4/30/2010 the day you got the loan, meaning 1st payment is due on 5/30/2010, or is 4/30/2010 already your first payment?4/30 IS FIRST PAYMENT-- I TRIED TO COMPLY WITH YOUR NOTES AND DATE ON THE SPREADSHEET AND I USED YOUR PAYMENT FOR 60 MONTHS...I SHOWED PAYING FOR IT BY REDUCING DISCRETIONARY INCOME FOR THAT PERIOD OF TIME. YOU MIGHT WANT TO MAKE YOUR CAR LOAN AMORIZATION AT THE BEGINNING OF HE MOINTH, NOT AT THE END THE BEGIING LOAN AND PAYMENT WOULD BE 4/30/20107. lose biweekly income on month 63 2-1-2013OK, now it's a lot clearer that 7, 8 and 9 are all related. In your earlier post, only scenario 9 actually had clear parameters. SORRY --ME BAD
8. save $500 per month of expenses on 2-28-2013THE RST OF THE MONTHS AR ON THE 30TH THOUGHOK. I'm glad your software has figured out that there are only 28 days in Feb 2013. The Y2K bug in your software has been fixed. YOUR A PRETTY FUNNY GUY!
9. new biweekly income starting on 9-5-2014OK

10. raise interest from day one on equity line to 18%OK

You have posted your scenarios twice already. In both cases, I have found multiple errors and incomplete information to be able to make an informed decision, so I don't know if it's carelessness or just a lack of understanding on your own scenarios. I guess the software may tell the user his payoff date, but it does not necessarily make him any smarter.
THE BALL IS IN YOUR COURT! LET'S SEE WHERE IS ALL LIES....IF YOU ARE TRUELY "SEARCHING FOR THE TRUTH"Dude, the ball's always in your court because you're the one that's already down by $3500 so you have to prove that it's worth your every penny. We don't need to prove anything. My spreadsheet is free. My mind, however, priceless. The only lies that I have seen lately are the bogus payoff dates that you posted.

THERE YOU GO AGAIN...PLEASE WAIT ON YOUR COMMENTS TILL WE GET THIS DONE AND THEN YOU CAN VERIFY THE LIVE ENTRY OF THE NUMBERS INO THE SOFTWARE AND YOU SEE FOR YOURSELF. ON THE WEBINAR, I CAN EVEN GIVE YOU THE KEYBOARD SO YOU CAN PHYSICALLY ENTER THE INFO INTO THE SCREEN ON MY COMPUTER YOURSELF AS WE BOTH WATCH.
NO MATTER WHERE THE NUMBERS END UP, YOU WILL NEED TO SEE THE ENTRIES SO THAT YOU CANNOT CALL ME A LIAR ANYMORE... WE WILL ALSO BE ABLE TO TALK VIA A CONFERENCE LINE

anthonyu said: JHB, thanks for the response. The only things that I need or need to clarify are:

I still need your transactions, at least for the 1st 3 months. I need to know if there is any non-recurring transaction that was executed during setup. For example, there hasn't been any recent mention of the $5K savings available at the start of the loan but this was mentioned in the past. I need to know if I have to factor this in or not. Post the transactions and I will upload the spreadsheet after I confirm your transactions. I'm almost done. I KEPT THE 5000 IN THERE AS WITH THE ORIGINAL REQUEST THAT WE ALL STARTED WITH. IT IS THE EXACT STARTING POINT AS CALVINS CHALLENGE BASED ON HIS DATES STARTING ON 12-1-2007 5000 GOES IN THAT DAY,,FIRST PAYCHECK IS 15TH AND THE 30TH 1250 EACH PERSON EACH PAY PERIOD ON A SEMI MONTHLY TO START OUT..YOU SHOULD BE STARTING OUT AT 6.50...I AM AT 6.75 START YEARS..7% HELOC, YOU WILL BE ABLE TO VERIFY MY ENTRIES ON THE WEBINAR. SO IN YOUR FIGURING FROM DASY ONE, YOU SHOULD JUST PLACE YOUR DISCRETIONARY AGAINST THE MORTGAGE FROM DAY ONE...PUTTING IN THE MMA FIGURES FOR THE FIRST SEVEN MONTHS WOULD NOT BE AN ACCURATE COMAPRISON SINCE WE ARE COMPARING JUST PUTTING IN THE DIY SCENARIO THE DICFRETIONARY FROM DYA ONE...DON'T YOU AGREE?

Scenario 1: I will also assume that the increase is $100/mo = $1200/year. I will not use any additional paychecks that may appear OK

Scenario 2: So when you said "accommodate a savings of $150/mo permanently", you did not mean that the person will be putting away an additional $150 into a savings account, you actually meant that their expenses are now less by $150 and you'll put this amount into the mortgage. We're now clear on that. THAT IS CORRECT

Post your initial transactions and we're ready to roll. I'm typing a rather lengthy reply right now. It's almost showtime.

THAT WOULD BE CORRECT ON YOUR PART SINCE WE PAID FOR IT OUT OF THE HELOC ON DAY ONEanthonyu said: So I'm able to apply the $5K savings plus the $3.5K software cost, meaning my loan amount would be reduced to $191.5K. Correct?

JamesHughbanks said: anthonyu said: JHB, thanks for the response. The only things that I need or need to clarify are:

I still need your transactions, at least for the 1st 3 months. I need to know if there is any non-recurring transaction that was executed during setup. For example, there hasn't been any recent mention of the $5K savings available at the start of the loan but this was mentioned in the past. I need to know if I have to factor this in or not. Post the transactions and I will upload the spreadsheet after I confirm your transactions. I'm almost done. I KEPT THE 5000 IN THERE AS WITH THE ORIGINAL REQUEST THAT WE ALL STARTED WITH. IT IS THE EXACT STARTING POINT AS CALVINS CHALLENGE BASED ON HIS DATES STARTING ON 12-1-2007 5000 GOES IN THAT DAY,,FIRST PAYCHECK IS 15TH AND THE 30TH 1250 EACH PERSON EACH PAY PERIOD ON A SEMI MONTHLY TO START OUT..YOU SHOULD BE STARTING OUT AT 6.50...I AM AT 6.75 START YEARS..7% HELOC, YOU WILL BE ABLE TO VERIFY MY ENTRIES ON THE WEBINAR. SO IN YOUR FIGURING FROM DASY ONE, YOU SHOULD JUST PLACE YOUR DISCRETIONARY AGAINST THE MORTGAGE FROM DAY ONE...PUTTING IN THE MMA FIGURES FOR THE FIRST SEVEN MONTHS WOULD NOT BE AN ACCURATE COMAPRISON SINCE WE ARE COMPARING JUST PUTTING IN THE DIY SCENARIO THE DICFRETIONARY FROM DYA ONE...DON'T YOU AGREE?

Scenario 1: I will also assume that the increase is $100/mo = $1200/year. I will not use any additional paychecks that may appear OK

Scenario 2: So when you said "accommodate a savings of $150/mo permanently", you did not mean that the person will be putting away an additional $150 into a savings account, you actually meant that their expenses are now less by $150 and you'll put this amount into the mortgage. We're now clear on that. THAT IS CORRECT

Post your initial transactions and we're ready to roll. I'm typing a rather lengthy reply right now. It's almost showtime.

UFF Results::
MONEY MERGE ACCOUNT START PAYOFF PERIOD 6.75 YEARS
SCENARIO PAYOFF
1. PAY RAISE OF $50 BIWEEKLY - PAYOFF - 6.667 YRS 8/2014
2. SAVE $150 MO IN BUDGET - PAYOFF - 6.25 YRS 3/2014
3. SPEND $900 FRO 8.5 MO - PAYOFF - 6.583 YRS 7/2014
4. DEPOSIT 3500 - PAYOFF - 6.417 YRS 5/2014
5. SPEND 20,350 FROM EQUITY - PAYOFF - 7.167 YRS 2/2015 TRUE COST IS $28,084
6. BUY CAR-12K PAY MO. PAYMENT PAYOFF - 7.583 YRS 7/2015
7. LOSE JOB OF BIWEEKLY ---------- OUT OF MONEY IN 35 MONTHS FROM EQUITY LINE
8. SAVE $500/MO IN CHILD CARE PAYOFF - 20.667 YRS 8/2028
9 NEW BIWEEKLY JOB - PAYOFF - 10.583 YRS 7/2018
10 RUN HELOC AT 18% FROM DAY ONE PAYOFF - 11.167 YRS 2/2019

DIY Results:
Base: 5/2014 (6.5 years)
1. 2/2014 (6.25 years)
2. 10/2013 (5.917 years)
3. 2/2014 (6.25 years)
4. 12/2013 (6.08 years)
5. 8/2014 (6.75 years)
6. 1/2015 (7.167 years)
9. 4/2016 (8.417 years) (7, 8 and 9 are related scenarios.)
10. 5/2016. Note that my simulation did not get affected that much by the HELOC rate increase to 18% because I used HELOC for emergency purposes only. Total HELOC interest incurred (Cell T7, non-compounded) increased from 557.23 to 1487.94 but you are still able to pay off the loan at the same month.

Summary:
The DIY approach had a .25 year (3 months) advantage to begin with because of the $3500 software cost. From scenarios 1 to 6,the DIY approach remained between .20 to .40 year advantage (~2 to 4 months). This is to be expected since we're supposedly running the same scenarios, therefore similar results. The variance of +/- 1 month between the scenarios would be due to the fact that the loan could be paid off in month x, but in certain instances there is some balance left causing the other scenario to finish the following month.

Our end result after scenario 9 are quite different, so we would have to look into that. As mentioned above, the DIY approach did not get affected by the HELOC rate change (Scenario 10).

JHB, I do not need to see your software as we have produced similar results (except maybe for 7, 8, 9 where you end much later). If you disagree on the result in any scenario, investigate the spreadsheet. I display ALL the data monthly. If you think I entered the wrong payment scenario (incorrect start or end month, incorrect amount), go ahead and change it and click on Calculate. It should give you the payoff date.

And now, I rest.

kenmoreland said: Double green for anthonyu!

Thanks to JB for helping to find the truth.

Great job by anthonyu. More work than I would have done to appease the UFF puppet. But I suspect JBH will come back with some lame excuse or another. Possibly fudged numbers. I will be very surprised if he admits UFF is inefficient and exorbitantly expensive. My guess is if he actually admits to the numbers, he'll just contend that the average person will not know how to use such a "complex" spreadsheet and would be wise to spend $3500 on UFF crapware for ease of use.