I was hoping you might be able to answer a couple of questions for me:
1) Are you using the system successfully? 2) Are you are UFF representative?
I am on the verge of purchasing the system, but cannot find any legitimate users out there to give feedback and most of the positive feedback has been from UFF representatives and therefore biased. I would appreciate any and all honest help.
Jenkev said: I was hoping you might be able to answer a couple of questions for me:
1) Are you using the system successfully? 2) Are you are UFF representative?
I am on the verge of purchasing the system, but cannot find any legitimate users out there to give feedback and most of the positive feedback has been from UFF representatives and therefore biased. I would appreciate any and all honest help.
Of the 79 pages on this thread, I'm pretty sure you can figure out where people stand on the issue.
Jenkev said: I was hoping you might be able to answer a couple of questions for me:
1) Are you using the system successfully? 2) Are you are UFF representative?
I am on the verge of purchasing the system, but cannot find any legitimate users out there to give feedback and most of the positive feedback has been from UFF representatives and therefore biased. I would appreciate any and all honest help.I also am too lazy to read. Could someone just summarize this website and all the deals for me?
Jenkev said: I was hoping you might be able to answer a couple of questions for me:
1) Are you using the system successfully? 2) Are you are UFF representative?
I am on the verge of purchasing the system, but cannot find any legitimate users out there to give feedback and most of the positive feedback has been from UFF representatives and therefore biased. I would appreciate any and all honest help. You can help yourself by reading this thread. There's 180 pages, but much of that is quoting other people.
Jenkev said: I was hoping you might be able to answer a couple of questions for me:
1) Are you using the system successfully? 2) Are you are UFF representative?
I am on the verge of purchasing the system, but cannot find any legitimate users out there to give feedback and most of the positive feedback has been from UFF representatives and therefore biased. I would appreciate any and all honest help.
Wondering why everyone who gives positive feedback for the MMA is an agent? There are almost 60,000 agents out there. The agent list has been published. Common UFirst agent claims include 120,000 users. So, one out of every two users is an agent.
Think of it this way: If you are suckered in by the marketing, you just paid $3500 for this thing. Now, your agent asks you, do you want to become an agent? It only costs $175, and you can "help" other people, and make back your $3500 in commissions. (The compensation plan has also been published) Once you've fallen for the MMA for $3500, how do you say "no" to $175 for the chance to make some money on the side?
But again, look at the numbers. 60,000 agents. 120,000 users. Each agent has two sales, on average. But we know that some agents have dozens or hundreds of sales, so it stands to reason that most agents, have 2 sales or less. Many will have no sales at all. So it ain't that great of a money-making scheme, unless you manage to recruit a lot.
Jenkev said: 1) Are you using the system successfully?yes, many of us used the system successfully, but without purchasing the software or using a HELOC. Why make things more complicated. We just made extra payments, just like the UFF system has you do (even though they say they don).2) Are you are UFF representative?oh gosh no, I don't believe in stealing people's money.I am on the verge of purchasing the system, but cannot find any legitimate users out there to give feedback and most of the positive feedback has been from UFF representatives and therefore biased. I would appreciate any and all honest help.you can pay $3500 to prepay your debt, or you can just do it without the $3500. Regardless of whether you use their system or not, it will be YOUR money going to pay YOUR debt. Why exactly to you want to pay other people more of YOUR money when you can already pay YOUR money to your creditors? Odds are you will pay ~$10,000 more in interest and software fee than just sending in your extra income directly to your debt (which is just what the UFF has you do in disguise).
moneyinyourpocket, its almost two weeks since cphansen took you up on your challenge. Care to respond? Or did your upline explain to you that UFirst always loses - and that is bad for sales when you lose in the light of truth in public?
moneyinyourpocket said: I do believe it will be faster than a DIY approach of couse in your case with no debt you really don't need it. Most american's are not in your position. If you just want to come up with numbers that is fine. Most people today have debt in alot of area's put some credit cards, car payment, mortgage. I have no problem posting the numbers I just want us both using the same numbers. I may need to speak with you after you send me the worksheet. I will give you my number on your private e-mail.
I actually got a UFF mass mailing postcard in the mail the other day. It wasn't UFF, it was some other such garbage name, but the claims were all the same, pay mortgage in 1/2 to 1/3 the time, no change in lifestyle etc.
It has been a very quiet December on the web when it comes to UFirst. Agents seem to have given up completely on Internet discussion as a form of marketing and recruitment, relying instead on one-way content. That's not very "Web 2.0" of them, considering they love that bit of jargon.
They won't even talk on their OWN "Official Blogs", as my comments to "The Whole Truth" have gone unapproved for over two weeks now. Agent Jaime Buckley can have his rant approved within minutes, but my measured response (I think) has languished for 15 days.
Pretty ironic, considering the UFirst Official Blogs were created to allow their "combined intelligence, experience and views to dominate the search engines". Their words.
As for MIYP, my offer stands. It's about as stale as the UFirst blogs, but it stands. His move.
I don't know where she got it (really, I don't), but Tracy Coenen of the Fraud Files Blog has come across the earnings distribution for UFirst agents and analyzed the numbers, together with the previously-uncovered master agent list:
The quick summary is this: Only 1% of UFirst agents make a decent income.
We have completely debunked the efficiency of the MMA many times over. This completely debunks the claimed earnings potential of selling the MMA.
All the agents we see here with poor math and communications skills? Do they strike you as being in the top 1% of anything? Even UFirst agents? Not a chance. None of them are making any money at this.
Put another way - they may be unethical, but at least they aren't profiting from it!
To me, the massive potential earnings of a UFirst agent was the last thing to be disproven, and that has been done. The MMA is not a good product to buy, and it is not a lucrative product to sell. It hurts the buyer, the seller, and everyone but the top 1% of agents and the founders of UFirst, where most of the money goes.
In round numbers, 600 agents are doing well. 59,400 agents are floundering, and 120,000 clients have been tricked into buying a crappy bit of software, even if half of them are agents and are trying to lie their way to the top 1%.
weezyrob said: kamalktk said: synnyster said: What's the update on this challenge? status: being ignored by moneyinyourpocket.
Maybe he was a good seller this summer and is on the UFF Cruise (or waiting for higher ups to return...)The higher up returned and told him to comply with UFirst rules to never engage in an unmoderated public debate
Too bad. No entertainment. Watching the U1st agents try to debate is always entertaining
cphansen said: This is huge. Only 1% of UFirst agents make a decent income.
We have completely debunked the efficiency of the MMA many times over. This completely debunks the claimed earnings potential of selling the MMA.
In round numbers, 600 agents are doing well. 59,400 agents are floundering, and 120,000 clients have been tricked into buying a crappy bit of software, even if half of them are agents and are trying to lie their way to the top 1%.UFF is sold via Multi Level Marketing (MLM), and all MLMs operate by benefitting only those on the very top, while a MASSIVE amount of participants make little or nothing.
Here is a nice little chart showing how poorly these saps are doing by all their spamming
I think the biggest misconception that the original poster is assuming is the ideas behind a close ended debt which is like a home loan/car loan and an open ended debt such as a credit card, Home equity loan, personal line of credit is the same thing. It is not. A close ended debt is calculated using the amount of the loan then the length that the loan is used(such as a 30yr fixed home loan) then the interest applied say 6 percent compounded daily over 30 years. that final value is then divided by the length of time and that is the loan value you pay each month. So basically it would be: A = loan amount X= total loan amount A((length of loan)(Percent interest compounded))= X then you take X / (length of loan in months) = monthly payments So in a close ended debt you are actually paying monthly payments of interest that has been applied over 30 years. In an open ended debt you are paying interest of the debt that you have currently. so lets take a credit card with 9 percent interest a year ie the APR of 9%. So the formula would be (current debt in credit card)(9 % APR /12) = how much you are paying in interest a month or (current debt in credit card)(.0075)= monthly minimum payment also in many open ended debt if you pay in full your current balance each month you dont pay interest. As you can see these are not the same thing. And are 2 totally different concepts. The OP should apply that to his equations
From the post above that said poor saps are floudering you should look at the compensation package that is offered and compare apples to apples. Quickstar which is amway has its market place in general goods while Ufirst is a service + product. They may share the same business model but they dont share the same market.
mchlmichaell said: So basically it would be: A = loan amount X= total loan amount A((length of loan)(Percent interest compounded))= X then you take X / (length of loan in months) = monthly payments So in a close ended debt you are actually paying monthly payments of interest that has been applied over 30 years INCORRECT!
As you make monthly payments (assuming fully amortizing), part of the payment goes towards the principal and reduces the balance owed (and hence the interest portion on the next month's payment).
Let us run simple numbers to see what your calc. yields. A = 100k length of loan: 120 months (10 years) rate of interest: 6% As per your "formula" above for X (it is so imprecise but I will try to make sense of it; assume monthly compounding): X = A*(1+6%/12)^120 = 182k (approx.) Therefore monthly payment = 1,516 per your "formula"
Use any simple mortgage calculator and it would say that the monthly payment on a 10 year fixed rate mortgage at 6% and 100k principal is 1,110 (approx.)
I guess the quite period is over, mchlmichaell didn't get the message that UFF agents shouldn't come here and exspose their fundamental financial illiteracy as already shown by uutxs.
mchlmichaell said: I think the biggest misconception that the original poster is assuming is the ideas behind a close ended debt which is like a home loan/car loan and an open ended debt such as a credit card, Home equity loan, personal line of credit is the same thing. It is not. A close ended debt is calculated using the amount of the loan then the length that the loan is used(such as a 30yr fixed home loan) then the interest applied say 6 percent compounded daily over 30 years. that final value is then divided by the length of time and that is the loan value you pay each month. So basically it would be: A = loan amount X= total loan amount A((length of loan)(Percent interest compounded))= X then you take X / (length of loan in months) = monthly payments So in a close ended debt you are actually paying monthly payments of interest that has been applied over 30 years. In an open ended debt you are paying interest of the debt that you have currently. so lets take a credit card with 9 percent interest a year ie the APR of 9%. So the formula would be (current debt in credit card)(9 % APR /12) = how much you are paying in interest a month or (current debt in credit card)(.0075)= monthly minimum payment also in many open ended debt if you pay in full your current balance each month you dont pay interest. As you can see these are not the same thing. And are 2 totally different concepts. The OP should apply that to his equations Are you f'ing retarded? Certainly you don't feel capable of selling this trash to people stupider than yourself, do you?
mchlmichaell said: I think the biggest misconception that the original poster is assuming is the ideas behind a close ended debt which is like a home loan/car loan and an open ended debt such as a credit card, Home equity loan, personal line of credit is the same thing. It is not. A close ended debt is calculated using the amount of the loan then the length that the loan is used(such as a 30yr fixed home loan) then the interest applied say 6 percent compounded daily over 30 years. that final value is then divided by the length of time and that is the loan value you pay each month. So basically it would be: A = loan amount X= total loan amount A((length of loan)(Percent interest compounded))= X then you take X / (length of loan in months) = monthly payments So in a close ended debt you are actually paying monthly payments of interest that has been applied over 30 years. In an open ended debt you are paying interest of the debt that you have currently. so lets take a credit card with 9 percent interest a year ie the APR of 9%. So the formula would be (current debt in credit card)(9 % APR /12) = how much you are paying in interest a month or (current debt in credit card)(.0075)= monthly minimum payment also in many open ended debt if you pay in full your current balance each month you dont pay interest. As you can see these are not the same thing. And are 2 totally different concepts. The OP should apply that to his equations
Is THIS what they're teaching at UFirst training sessions now? Junk finance?
To be clear to anyone who is reading this, hoping to learn something, the above is almost all wrong.
We were also recently solicited by a friend to become UFF agents. Whenever friends contact us about business opportunities, our red flags go up and the radar goes on. After some inquiring, the UFF MMA plan involves floating money between a Home Equity Loan and your existing first mortgage company. This is in a way similar to a scam people did in the 1970's and 1980's - getting two credit lines and using one to pay off the other each month, in the meantime floating the full balance and drawing the interest and possibly avoiding taxes. Possible? - Yes. Ethical? - Maybe. Dangerous? - Yes.
There is a fee of $150 to become an agent, so this is not a simple employer/employee relationship, and more closely resembles an MLM, with a downline, which will actually generate any profits for the potential agent. The key element of the Money Merge Account is a software package, which costs (brace yourself), a whopping $3500. What this software does is tell you when and how much to pay to make the system work.
While this may very well work for many participants, and in fact save them money on their mortgages and debts, the simple fact is that anyone can do this on their own with a little free research at their public library. It's as simple as setting up the HELOC, determining the exact dates to write and send the checks and posting them on your wall calendar. Of course if you do this, you'll miss out on the opportunity to earn a piece of the $150 registration fee and percentage of the $3500 software cost from those you recruit into the system, but that's really my point.
No one gets rich from this by simply buying and using the software. The real money is made by recruiting friends and family to also become agents - the trademark of a typical MLM.
ccrider77 said: No one gets rich from this by simply buying and using the software. The real money is made by recruiting friends and family to also become agents - the trademark of a typical MLM.
Have they always been charging $150 to become an agent? Or is that something they came up with recently to offset the fact that no one was buying the $3500 software?
swandown said: ccrider77 said: No one gets rich from this by simply buying and using the software. The real money is made by recruiting friends and family to also become agents - the trademark of a typical MLM.
Have they always been charging $150 to become an agent? Or is that something they came up with recently to offset the fact that no one was buying the $3500 software?
No, they charge $175 for the "opportunity" and have for a while. If you want to show people demos (and not just an analysis), that will put you back $99 plus $10/month. There are other "tools" that they tell agents they need (Utracker for $50 or $75/month). And of course, you will start to hear more of "how can you be effective selling if you don't own the program yourself?" Add to that the pressure you'll feel to attend seminars/conferences ($30-60 a pop), advanced replicated websites, DVDs, magazines, and the only real way you can make money is to recruit and hope to repeat the process. Typical MLM indeed.
weezyrob said: swandown said: ccrider77 said: No one gets rich from this by simply buying and using the software. The real money is made by recruiting friends and family to also become agents - the trademark of a typical MLM.
Have they always been charging $150 to become an agent? Or is that something they came up with recently to offset the fact that no one was buying the $3500 software?
No, they charge $175 for the "opportunity" and have for a while. If you want to show people demos (and not just an analysis), that will put you back $99 plus $10/month. There are other "tools" that they tell agents they need (Utracker for $50 or $75/month). And of course, you will start to hear more of "how can you be effective selling if you don't own the program yourself?" Add to that the pressure you'll feel to attend seminars/conferences ($30-60 a pop), advanced replicated websites, DVDs, magazines, and the only real way you can make money is to recruit and hope to repeat the process. Typical MLM indeed.
Weezyrob, well put. Most agents have been scammed as much, or more, than the folks who simply buy the MMA. The argument that you should own the product to sell it is also turned around and used against critics to say that we shouldn't criticize it until we buy it! Still, UFirst can claim they are breaking no laws because they don't require agents to buy the software.
Well done guys. If you take a look at all of the top money earners in the company I bet it is because of the massive networks they have formed selling it like discussed above and most of the top earners came from other MLM type companies and just the brought the old downline into this business.
I need your help guys... I think we are missing the boat by not coming up with our own MLM company. Let's say that the agents pay 50 a month for this utracker program x 10,000 agents = $500,000 a month income without selling any software! Through research of other MLM firms like the Amways and such they all have their own 'help your business grow' monthly packages that just make the MLM parent company rich off of the agents. I just can't get over the fact that the guys that created this program don't charge a fee that is comparable to other financial software programs available to the consumer. It absolutely blow my mind! If it is so easy to use and there is already a customer support team in place why not charge I don't know $200 - not to debate even if it is worth using such a software which doesn't pay down debt but merely shows the 'what ifs'.
moeblogger said: If you take a look at all of the top money earners in the company I bet it is because of the massive networks they have formed selling it like discussed above and most of the top earners came from other MLM type companies and just the brought the old downline into this business.
Like Steve Smith? Lynn Spencer? Barry Elrod? George Veronis? What MLMs were they associated with? I remember seeing a video of Jarrett Holmes (not a top money maker, but upline to some big names) where he stated he had been trying for years to make it big in MLM, failing 3 times with "scAmway" and some phone one before landing at UFF.
moeblogger said: I need your help guys...I just can't get over the fact that the guys that created this program don't charge a fee that is comparable to other financial software programs available to the consumer. It absolutely blow my mind! If it is so easy to use and there is already a customer support team in place why not charge I don't know $200 - not to debate even if it is worth using such a software which doesn't pay down debt but merely shows the 'what ifs'.
What are you saying here? Do you actually think UFF is not making any money on their UTrackerPro/Plus? It sounds like you watched the pre-launch hype last week. Are you an agent or someone looking to benefit from the types that are drawn to MLMs? Regardless, UFF is following the pattern of many MLMs: when sales of the main product slow, add "tools" to "help" agents, ie hype the false dream and siphon off more.
FYI, here is a screen capture of a slide from a recent UFF webinar showing their goals for 2009. The last item is "Internet Optimization" because in their words, some negative blogs occationally pop up in search engines. How about the top three when googling "Money Merge Account"? Kudos to the Fatwallet posters, among others.
Late2G said: FYI, here is a screen capture of a slide from a recent UFF webinar showing their goals for 2009. The last item is "Internet Optimization" because in their words, some negative blogs occationally pop up in search engines. How about the top three when googling "Money Merge Account"? Kudos to the Fatwallet posters, among others. edit: nm now I see it.
You may have or soon will have UFF agents claiming "Magazines that are found in Barnes and Noble have validated us as a legit company!" They are probably referring to the Success From Home magazine, which indeed can be found in B & N, among other places. But doing a little research has cast doubt in my mind on the objectivity of this mag.
From www.successfromhome.com/about.php: Companies featured in our magazine include Arbonne, NuSkin, PrePaid Legal Services, Inc., Quixtar and USANA. Uh oh, not a good start. The parent company, VideoPlus, L.P., was founded in 1987 as a media and marketing communications company offering innovative, turnkey solutions for the direct selling industry. Its customized video, audio and print products have helped clients increase their recruiting, retention and revenue efforts. That's clear from their "Distinguished" Client list: http://www.videoplus.com/index.php/clients Their Portfolio link shows that UFirst is a client, as they produce UFF's slick initial Agent Training packet.
Even more telling is from a "white paper" published by VideoPlus:here. Under "Tools Work": Since 2005, the tool making the most impact on the direct selling industry—in recruiting, retention and revenue—has been the third-party magazine. While there have been other magazines that addressed small or minor aspects of the industry, the publications created by VideoPlus address each of these challenges so completely that they have impacted the industry more than any other communication tool in history...
Under "Tailored to the Marketplace": Success from Home magazine has 132 pages showcasing the outstanding opportunities that direct selling provides for so many. Generally, this magazine is appropriate for larger companies with revenue of approx. $1 million or more. It has been called the “greatest recruiting tool in history” by more than one CEO. And if there was any doubt about the true colors of Success From Home, Under "Why Magazines Work": These third-party magazines are effective in recruiting because they are easy and comfortable for associates to use. Their effectiveness also makes cost-per-team-member-acquisition very low. With 100-136 pages, these magazines are comprehensive; able to tell a variety of stories to interest virtually every prospect. Third party magazines also offer the benefit of working well within a company with an established tools culture, as well as companies trying to implement tools into their business processes. Companies with strong tools cultures found that they were able to increase revenue and recruiting significantly.
Under "Third Party Validation": Each issue also includes familiar advertisers such as Dell, Chase Visa, Southwest Airlines, Travelocity and the Got Milk campaign; subtly reassuring readers this magazine is offering a solid third party look at the featured direct selling company. Since each issue focuses on a single direct selling company, no advertising competing with the featured company is found within the magazine. The third party validation of and within the magazine clarifies and enhances the reputation of both the industry and the featured company. And finally... As you consider investing in a third party magazine...
Well guys I'm a new member who recently met with agent of ufirst and he was cool and all but it seemed to good to be true so I did some research and stumbled into this site and from what I've read, I definitely am not going to use the product. Not only is it extremely expensive but it also can be achieved yourself through making extra payments to principal. I'm all about paying off the loan early and making biweekly payments through wells fargo helps along with making an extra payment each year but since I am a new home owner, and have not been schooled in finance, or mortgage loans I heard the presentation and was already about to buy the program but told him I'd let him know what I thought, thank god for that. This site saved me 3500.
fatstacks said: Well guys I'm a new member who recently met with agent of ufirst and he was cool and all but it seemed to good to be true so I did some research and stumbled into this site and from what I've read, I definitely am not going to use the product. Not only is it extremely expensive but it also can be achieved yourself through making extra payments to principal. I'm all about paying off the loan early and making biweekly payments through wells fargo helps along with making an extra payment each year but since I am a new home owner, and have not been schooled in finance, or mortgage loans I heard the presentation and was already about to buy the program but told him I'd let him know what I thought, thank god for that. This site saved me 3500.You are quite welcome. Thanks for posting!
Now that you're here, stay around. Read some, and become even more financially knowledgeable
fatstacks said: Well guys I'm a new member who recently met with agent of ufirst and he was cool and all but it seemed to good to be true so I did some research and stumbled into this site and from what I've read, I definitely am not going to use the product. Not only is it extremely expensive but it also can be achieved yourself through making extra payments to principal. I'm all about paying off the loan early and making biweekly payments through wells fargo helps along with making an extra payment each year but since I am a new home owner, and have not been schooled in finance, or mortgage loans I heard the presentation and was already about to buy the program but told him I'd let him know what I thought, thank god for that. This site saved me 3500.Congratulations on being an informed consumer. I realize you saved $3500.00 in this case and that seems important. However, the key thing is that you recognized it seemed to good to be true and held off and educated yourself.
There are many other choices in life that may not seem so clear cut. However, trust your gut and always be willing to walk away. Especially if it is someone who is "selling" you something. Whether it be mortgage acceleration, whole life insurance, annuities, financial planners, etc...
In the "hot deals" section we are trying to get the best deal for a product. Hopefully, for something we already need and not just because it is a good buy. While paying less for pruducts is nice, the dollars involved usually pale in comparision with the money affect by our choices in our financial life.
Just a little heads up. Do a little more investigation of the biweekly payment program at Wells Fargo. Very often, these are managed by third party companies who charge a fee. Unless you really need the convienence of the biweekly patments, consider doing this essentially yourself. Biweekly payments are still only applied to your mortgage monthly (your mortgage didn't change). So instead pay an extra 1/12 of your mortgage each month as an extra principal payment. If you mortgage processor allows online or automatic payments, pay the extra principal before the 1st of the month (I can explain why if your interested).
I have a Wells Fargo mortgage, and they do allow online payments, and you can include any additional principal you like. They may also offer auto payments, but I've never made use of it. I don't have to pay any service fee for the online scheduled payments, but another FWF poster reported that he does get charged.
Another notion to consider fatstacks, is whether or not you really should accelerate your mortgage payments at all. Is the interest rate low? Do you get any tax benefit from the interest (reducing your effective rate)? Do you have cash reserves in case of emergency or loss of income? Are you maximizing employer matching and tax benefits for 401k and IRA contributions? Many people have more financially effective uses for money than accelerated mortgage payments. Most who accelerate do so at least partly for emotional reasons (which I think is fine to an extent, as long as you're aware of the tradeoff).
we seriously need to start our own Fatwallet MLM. While they operate just like a Ponzi, the "product" aspect keeps it leigitmate enough to keep running.
btuttle said: fatstacks said: Well guys I'm a new member who recently met with agent of ufirst and he was cool and all but it seemed to good to be true so I did some research and stumbled into this site and from what I've read, I definitely am not going to use the product. Not only is it extremely expensive but it also can be achieved yourself through making extra payments to principal. I'm all about paying off the loan early and making biweekly payments through wells fargo helps along with making an extra payment each year but since I am a new home owner, and have not been schooled in finance, or mortgage loans I heard the presentation and was already about to buy the program but told him I'd let him know what I thought, thank god for that. This site saved me 3500.Congratulations on being an informed consumer. I realize you saved $3500.00 in this case and that seems important. However, the key thing is that you recognized it seemed to good to be true and held off and educated yourself.
There are many other choices in life that may not seem so clear cut. However, trust your gut and always be willing to walk away. Especially if it is someone who is "selling" you something. Whether it be mortgage acceleration, whole life insurance, annuities, financial planners, etc...
In the "hot deals" section we are trying to get the best deal for a product. Hopefully, for something we already need and not just because it is a good buy. While paying less for pruducts is nice, the dollars involved usually pale in comparision with the money affect by our choices in our financial life.
Just a little heads up. Do a little more investigation of the biweekly payment program at Wells Fargo. Very often, these are managed by third party companies who charge a fee. Unless you really need the convienence of the biweekly patments, consider doing this essentially yourself. Biweekly payments are still only applied to your mortgage monthly (your mortgage didn't change). So instead pay an extra 1/12 of your mortgage each month as an extra principal payment. If you mortgage processor allows online or automatic payments, pay the extra principal before the 1st of the month (I can explain why if your interested). thanks for the heads up, I actually checked on the whole biweekly thing and its actually through wells but they only apply these monthly so they hold it two weeks before applying it. by paying 1/12 every mo. at the time of due date along with my regular mo. payment would I pay off the loan faster applying one extra payment per year for principal? the thing I hate about wells is they charge an extra $10 to pay your mortgage online if its not due.....ridiculous. I don't trust they will apply my payment to principal if I send a check, even if I specify to.
fatstacks said: thanks for the heads up, I actually checked on the whole biweekly thing and its actually through wells but they only apply these monthly so they hold it two weeks before applying it. by paying 1/12 every mo. at the time of due date along with my regular mo. payment would I pay off the loan faster applying one extra payment per year for principal? the thing I hate about wells is they charge an extra $10 to pay your mortgage online if its not due.....ridiculous. I don't trust they will apply my payment to principal if I send a check, even if I specify to.This is what people are warning you about. So you pay in the middle of the month, but it does not get credited or paid to your loan until the end of the month. Might as well keep it in some interest bearing account and pay once at the end of the month. And then they charge you a fee on top of that?
anthonyu said: fatstacks said: thanks for the heads up, I actually checked on the whole biweekly thing and its actually through wells but they only apply these monthly so they hold it two weeks before applying it. by paying 1/12 every mo. at the time of due date along with my regular mo. payment would I pay off the loan faster applying one extra payment per year for principal? the thing I hate about wells is they charge an extra $10 to pay your mortgage online if its not due.....ridiculous. I don't trust they will apply my payment to principal if I send a check, even if I specify to.This is what people are warning you about. So you pay in the middle of the month, but it does not get credited or paid to your loan until the end of the month. Might as well keep it in some interest bearing account and pay once at the end of the month. And then they charge you a fee on top of that? what they do is, if a payment has already been applied, they charge 10 for an extra payment on the account. if I made a payment towards principal each month, 1/12 of my mortgage would that speed up the process more than the 21.8 biweekly payments do?
SlimTim said: I have a Wells Fargo mortgage, and they do allow online payments, and you can include any additional principal you like. They may also offer auto payments, but I've never made use of it. I don't have to pay any service fee for the online scheduled payments, but another FWF poster reported that he does get charged.
Another notion to consider fatstacks, is whether or not you really should accelerate your mortgage payments at all. Is the interest rate low? Do you get any tax benefit from the interest (reducing your effective rate)? Do you have cash reserves in case of emergency or loss of income? Are you maximizing employer matching and tax benefits for 401k and IRA contributions? Many people have more financially effective uses for money than accelerated mortgage payments. Most who accelerate do so at least partly for emotional reasons (which I think is fine to an extent, as long as you're aware of the tradeoff). What do you mean by emotional reasons? I just figure since I'm young and have a young family, I'd like to have my mortgage paid off quick. I have an ira which I just put into my 401k since they match 100% and my ira was doing real bad. other long term assets are my kids college funds, emergency funds and a loc with a rate of 5.75 w/ a 22,000 line. its just one of my goals to have a home paid off before I'm 40. it gives me a little over 15 years.
calvinandhobbes said: JamesHughbanks said: If you want to make a point, I challenge you to answer each section of my statements with something of substance that will benefit everyone.how about this for a challenge that will prove your software once and for all (and we know you won't touch this with a 10' pole).
We challenge you to use your software to payoff a simple mortgage faster than prepayments:
$200k, 6%, 30 year mortgage, minimum payment due on the 1st $5k income, paid semi-monthly (15th and 30th of every month) $2k non-mortgage expenses, all paid by credit card, due on the 28th $5k savings sitting in a 3% checking account HELOC ($0 balance for prepayer, $3500 balance for you), 7%
you show us the money movements for this incredibly simple case we show you a more efficient MMA approach than the UFF offers, AND we show you simple prepayments that beat both.
care to take our challenge?
Well Calvin, it took quite a while, but I did find a rusty ole 10-foot pole with which to touch this outstanding challenge. My post with as many gory actual money movement details as possible will be forthcoming, but for now, here is a teaser:
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