United First Financial - Looking for the truth

SUCKISSTAPLES said: Lookie what I just got in my email...they had pulled my name and address and lender name from public records, and somehow matched it to my free email account

Projected Reduction Notice: $43000

 


DEAR SIS:

 

In an effort to stabilize the housing market and increase homeowner's equity, the MMA Reduction Option is now available in the SIS area.

 

Based on City and County records your mortgage funded in the amount of $xx00000, you became eligible under the MMA Reduction Option which is estimated to decrease your scheduled mortgage interest by $43000.

 

Through the MMA Reduction Option, homeowners are now able to reduce their scheduled mortgage and term with no refinancing required.

 

Not all homeowners qualify under the MMA Reduction Option. Due to this interest reduction eligibility, it is recommended that you speak with an MMA certified agent no later than 9/30/2009. Due to the overwhelming response, to get priority servicing go to www.mma2009recovery.info and click on "Free Analysis".

 

Afterwards an MMA certified agent will contact you to go over how you can save a minimum of $43000 for you and your family. Once you are contacted reference to Eligibility ID: xxxx

 

 

Sincerely,

MMA Servicing Center

 

 

 

Call for confirmation of eligibility and exact interest and time reduction. Proposed interest reduction is based average reduction results. This is not a mortgage modification offer or solicitation. Loan information displayed is used solely for MMA option validation and is available through public record. This is not an offer to refinance; no refinancing is required under the MMA option. This is not a government offer, UFF, LLC and the MMA reduction option is not affiliated, endorsed nor associated with xxxxx. Certain conditions apply. ©Copyright UFF, LLC 2009

WOW.

How low will these people go for a sale?

SUCKISSTAPLES said:
...
Due to the overwhelming response, to get priority servicing go to www.mma2009recovery.info and click on "Free Analysis".
...

Agent #938988, Ross Beal, Associate. Joined UFF 3/10/09.
Total MMA sales to-date: 0
Total recruits to-date: 0

Late2G said: SUCKISSTAPLES said:
...
Due to the overwhelming response, to get priority servicing go to www.mma2009recovery.info and click on "Free Analysis".
...


Agent #938988, Ross Beal, Associate. Joined UFF 3/10/09.
Total MMA sales to-date: 0
Total recruits to-date: 0

http://www.whois.net/whois/mma2009recovery.info

http://www.linkedin.com/in/rossandmaryan

Congratulations, Ross. In an ocean full of UFirst bottom-feeders, you went one step lower than the rest.

ellory said: SIS - are you going to follow-up and get your free analysis?depends if I get a happy ending from his wife Maryan

SUCKISSTAPLES said:
Not all homeowners qualify under the MMA Reduction Option.
Eligibility is limited to suckers willing to throw away $3500.

cphansen said: Interestingly, once engaged, one of the first bills they wanted me to pay, was the remaining balance.

That factorial math is some complex stuff:

if ($payee = 'UFF') {
   $percent_to_pay = 100;
}
else {
   $percent_to_pay = int(rand(5));
}

bump

It has been a while, and from what I can tell, no agent has ever taken up the challenge proposed by 'calvinandhobbes' here.

Well, with access to UFF's MMA Demo accounts floating around the net, I thought I would try some actual money movements to see what happens. Even though it is a "Demo" account of the MMA, according to Stuart "Mac" Saunders (UFF National Sales Director) it is the "actual" engine of the full fledged Money Merge Account, just limited to a 3 month window (mentioned in either this video recording or a similar one: ufirstvideos.com/usersoftwaredemo.html).

I used calvin's parameters to first run a "Primary Analysis":
Projected Interest Savings: %187,215.58
Projected Payoff: 6.8 years
Payoff Date: October 2015 (From Jan 1, 2009)
Time Savings: 23.3 years

Here is a link (google doc) of the manual transactions that took place for the first 12 months (first mortgage payment on 1/1/2009): MMA Actual Movements

The data should be pretty explanatory. The assumptions are in the first two columns, then show the beginning balances for all accounts at each action, action description, and ending balances of each account. The next few columns (Term, YrsLeft, Int Remaining) were what the MMA reported after each mortgage payment action. The last few columns are for calculating the interest (average daily balance) in the HELOC, which could not be calculated by the MMA. The HELOC interest was paid on the first of the next month from the savings account. The MMA was paid in full from the HELOC. I assumed the user could deposit checks directly into the HELOC and write expense checks from it also.

Attached is a screen cap of the account balances after 6 full months of money movements, and 12 months.

Before continuing, I thought it would be a good idea for others to compare these movements to the "Do It Yourself" method. But I think most here already know what the result will be.

Given the HELOC rate is above the mortgage rate, isn't it obvious the software is flawed by letting the HELOC average ride so high? Ideally, it would get close to zero at its lowest each month, keeping the average low as possible.

I find it amazing how many people in a certain sector slam an idea, that actually helps people. Lets take a moment and do the math. First the average American works 40-60-80 hours a week. Second travel time lunch dinner sleep and clean house go go go. Second yes Quicken is a good software but it does not help an individual save money. Third if there is something out there that is better then 80 dollars a month to help you save money with support and help. And tools to tell you to do it right other then a broker charging you more points and more compounding interest on your next loan or your old doc fee or the next good old broker fee i am will to take a peek.Personally i am a firm believer that for 80 bucks a month. Less then i go an play a hand of pia-gow with a month has helped me and has led me to saving money I am happy with the program i am a single dad and finding time let alone is hard enough.

Personally if someone told me i had to pay the whole amount of money lets take a house at 350,000 i would say no. Fortunantly mma lets you make payments and you make that money back in your first two months. Can you say the same about buying a house and refiancing it or useing the heloc and how much more time do you have to spend to enter in your credit cards and your car payments and beat them too open for suggestions here. I have found the program to be a godsent but thats just me.

Single Dad.

Seattle,WA

Why hasn't any of the people who call this a scam laid out precise step by step instructions for those math-challenged folk? Not everyone is confident in the math and has a program set up to alert us which account to transfer money to one which date, etc etc. I would love to save $3500 by DIY, but I'm simply not confident enough in my own math and programming capabilities. I also love that no one out there was touting this method before UFF came along. At least not in a way that spread the word quickly. This company spent time and money on advertising, programmers, etc. Why shouldn't they get paid? Again if anyone wants to spend the time and help me set this up step by step (and then open up a hotline to help anyone else) that would be great. I just don't see that happening. Those who are math savy, excel spreadsheet savy, and programmers (to automate the alerts and calculations) seem to show how this product costs more than it's worth. But $3500 is cheaper than doing nothing because a person needs to be hand held. Insult me all you want about being an idiot regarding the math, but that's just the point: there are lots of math idiots who need the help!

shifty1981 said: Why hasn't any of the people who call this a scam laid out precise step by step instructions for those math-challenged folk? Not everyone is confident in the math and has a program set up to alert us which account to transfer money to one which date, etc etc. I would love to save $3500 by DIY, but I'm simply not confident enough in my own math and programming capabilities. I also love that no one out there was touting this method before UFF came along. At least not in a way that spread the word quickly. This company spent time and money on advertising, programmers, etc. Why shouldn't they get paid? Again if anyone wants to spend the time and help me set this up step by step (and then open up a hotline to help anyone else) that would be great. I just don't see that happening. Those who are math savy, excel spreadsheet savy, and programmers (to automate the alerts and calculations) seem to show how this product costs more than it's worth. But $3500 is cheaper than doing nothing because a person needs to be hand held. Insult me all you want about being an idiot regarding the math, but that's just the point: there are lots of math idiots who need the help!

I love how the shills self-identify themselves. "Shifty", eh?

But heres something even easier than what Tazzy quoted for the logically challenged:

Step 1) Pay all your bills.
Step 2) With the remaining money you have in your checking account, pay the mortgage. No math, logic, or anything else required to beat out the $3,500 MMA.

There you go, I just replicated the MMA except my method has better results with less money transfer shenanigans.

shifty1981 said: Thanks for the link. I'll give it a look see.

As for the name "Shifty", it's a tribute to the best shooter in the 101st airborn unit in WWII. That'd be pretty funny if I made my online name "slimeball" when posting supposed support for UFF. I searched google for UFF, came up with this thread. Read a bunch and then posted. Believe me if I were a rep I wouldn't be wasting my time on this thread. No one's going to change their minds on this thread, that's clear.

And for the guy who says just pay off your mortgage with extra money you have, yes that makes sense, but it's still more cost saving if you can do the UFF process without paying $3500 for it because of the type of interest rate compounding that's done.

I don't quite understand the point you make in your last paragraph, but what I do understand is incorrect. First, the UFF scamware has been shown to be inefficient, just look at the most recent example posted above.

Even if the HELOC shuffle is done correctly, the benefit is very small, and may not be worth the extra effort to many home owners.

A home owner using a high yield checking account for their mortgage payments might come out ahead vs the HELOC shuffle.

shifty1981 said: ...
Believe me if I were a rep I wouldn't be wasting my time on this thread. No one's going to change their minds on this thread, that's clear.
...

Both of these statements are provably false -- read the thread and note all the rep/shills that participated as well as those that were warned and stayed away from UFF (and similar outfits).

shifty1981 said: Anyway, I read those links and probably didn't give it enough time but I still don't see something laid out step by step with spreadsheets and all. it's gets murky quickly with filtering out idiotic posts from both sides.

magika already laid out how to do it. The whole HELOC game is a waste of time. At best, you're talking about pennies of gain. Just pay your bills, then take any extra income you have and put that towards your highest interest debt. Spend the rest of the time that you wouldn't have had on banging your gf or whatever it is you like to do to improve your quality of life.

galabar said: shifty1981 said: ...

Then those shills were naive. I meant that if I were a shill I wouldn't spend time on here. The conversion rate for people who thought it was a scam and came to be convinced it wasn't must be low. I do find it rather odd that anyone who comes on here supporting UFF in the least bit is immediately assumed to be someone who directly benefits if UFF does well. I mean come on. I have friends who believe whole heartedly in Avon, Pampered Chef, Creative Memories products but don't sell them. Doesn't make them biased, just believers in the products, even if they are sold with a MLM strategy. The issue is that people can use rude language, make blanket claims that they have no factual evidence of and call people anything they want without fear of retribution so they do and they turn people away from being willing to politely debate and discuss because of idiots. Granted there are probably biased UFF reps here trying to promote simply so their source of income doesn't die out, but that doesn't mean everyone who supports the product is like them.

Anyway, I read those links and probably didn't give it enough time but I still don't see something laid out step by step with spreadsheets and all. it's gets murky quickly with filtering out idiotic posts from both sides.

Is has been shown here that doing the following will beat UFF (and is easier to manage):

A) Pay all your bills.
B) Put any leftover money into your mortgage.

Do you agree that this? Do you have any evidence to the contrary?

I have not done the math enough yet to say confidently I agree or disagree. That's the point of me posting, that I need more mathematical guidance. No worries though. I just found a great blog series on this topic that has step by step examples, etc. Search Google for JoeTaxpayer. He has some great stuff. And best yet there's no rude ridiculous posts by idiots like I've had to filter through here where their only goal is to insult and point out supposed shills. I've used FW and SD for years and this type of posting makes me want to quit using the service. Instead I'll just find intelligent blogs instead I guess. FYI - So far people have been semi decent since I started posting and I appreciate that. But I'm sure the "shill-killers" are watching the thread waiting to jump once they think I'm somebody representing UFF. Thanks anyway and best of luck watching out for shills! What an exciting job that must be.

shifty1981 said: I have not done the math enough yet to say confidently I agree or disagree. That's the point of me posting, that I need more mathematical guidance.

http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/741118?msgid=12075472#m1...

Here's the math... If you want to analyze the math, let's do that.

s1235 said:
Suppose your total monthly income is x, discretionary income is y. Monthly interest rate of checking is rc, monthly interest rate of HELOC is rh, monthly interest rate of first mortgage is rm. Total time to payoff is m months in either case, and you get d days of float on average in a month (pretend every month has 30 days).


uutxs said:
Let me make some simplifying (but very reasonable) assumptions in your analysis:
rh = rm = r (certainly most favorable to UFF in current environment)
d = 30 (maximum possible float; most favorable to UFF).

Then the UFF float saves (x*rm*d/30-(x-y)*rh*(30-d)/30) = x*r per month
The checking a/c approach (call it DIY) pays you in interest: x*rc*d/30 + y*rc*(30-d)/30 = x*rc per month
The 3500 fee costs 3500r in interest per month (since the fee is essentially wrapped into the HELOC in UFF approach).

So the net savings per month of UFF approach over the DIY approach is: x*r - 3500*r - x*rc = x*(r-rc) - 3500*r

For UFF to win, it is necessary that: x*(r-rc) > 3500*r or
x*(1 - rc/r) > 3500.

Assuming that is true, the pay off period must be long enough so that the net savings of
x*(r-rc) - 3500*r per month, compounding at monthly rate r, would grow to 3500 or more.

Let us use some numbers now:
r = 6%/12 (monthly rates)
rc = 3%/12
x = 15000

Excel tells me that it takes well over 30 years for UFF to break even. Certainly not what UFF wants. You can certainly play around with the numbers a bit for different scenarios.

In any case, the biggest assumption favoring UFF in the above analysis is d = 30!! Free float of entire salary for a full month.



If we set d = 15 in the above, a more reasonable setting, here is the analysis:

The UFF float saves (x*rm*d/30-(x-y)*rh*(30-d)/30) = x*r/2 - (x-y)*r/2 = y*r/2 per month
The checking a/c approach (call it DIY) pays you in interest: x*rc*d/30 + y*rc*(30-d)/30 = x*rc/2 + y*rc/2 = (x+y)*rc/2 per month
The 3500 fee costs 3500r in interest per month (since the fee is essentially wrapped into the HELOC in UFF approach).

So the net savings per month of UFF approach over the DIY approach is: y*r/2 - 3500*r - (x+y)*rc/2 = y*(r-rc)/2 - x*rc/2 - 3500*r

For UFF to win, it is necessary that: y*(r-rc)/2 - x*rc/2 - 3500*r > 0
or y*(r-rc) > x*rc + 7000*r.

A necessary condition for the above to hold is that rc < r/2. Let us set rc = r/3 (checking interest rate is a third of mortgage/HELOC rate). We then require:

y*2/3 > x/3 + 7000 or y > x/2 + 10500.
But note that y < x.

Therefore x must be at least 21000. Say x = 25000, in which case y > 23000. Monthly income of 25k with 23k being discretionary!!! for UFF to have a snow balls chance in hell to win out. How long of a pay out period would be required in for UFF to eventually win out in that case? Dont even ask

How can any rational person justify a $3500 upfront cost? AFAIK there isn't a single piece of commercial software made for personal use that costs that much.

shifty1981 said: JM80 said: shifty1981 said:
I have friends who believe wholeheartedly in Avon, Pampered Chef, Creative Memories products but don't sell them. Doesn't make them biased, just believers in the products, even if they are sold with a MLM strategy.

There is a difference between providing people with a slightly over priced (usually) higher quality item, and lying about a product that provides no intrinsic value. The product can be beaten by simply following the idea of paying all of your income on bills, and keeping a fallback equity loan open for when you get into trouble. The product costs $3,500 and it is suppose to save you money. That is a contradiction.

You may be right, but that doesn't mean you should crap all over people who come into the discussion who in your opinion are misinformed. My only point here is that not all proponents are shills. Many people are just those who haven't learned all the facts yet and naively believe they do. How many people have you heard try to give diet tips but are overweight? Or people giving investment advice who are just as much in debt as you are? They clearly don't care and think they've learned the secrets to life so they share that information enthusiastically. But that doesn't mean they're all secrelty working for the man. When you crap all over people like that you make FWF a place where people say "to heck with those losers" and they stop coming back. Sure maybe the shills stop too, but no need to accuse everyone. that being said, I'm off to joe the taxpayer's site. his information is factual, helpful, and not personally insulting.

I did not crap all over anyone. I responded to your point, and did not say anything negative about you or anyone. You however did everything that you accused this site and it's members of. I ENTHUSIASTICALLY pointed out a fact, just as you were pointing out an opinion. It just so happened that your opinion was in conflict with the facts. Now you are coming on this site as a new member and are claiming we are persecuting you. Please reread all of the responses, no one has said anything negative towards you. You are exhibiting shill posting tactics, new members should not be recommending products and if they do, they will be called shills.

I was about to buy the UFF program. Coincidentally, I received an e-mail from a kindly Christian West African woman. For some reason the authorities thought that she may have had a hand in her husband's death so they made her drink water from his skull or something like that. Anyway, that seemed to be enough to keep her out of prison. She has $7.5 million dollars that she can't use and nobody knows about. From the goodness of her heart, she's going to give it to me. So, that brings me to my question.

Now that I'm rich, instead of buying one UFF program for $3500, should I buy ten of them for $35,000 (maybe even get a bulk discount)? This way, I can pay off my mortgage and my debts 10x faster!