ellory said:confuseu said:I have said dozens of times, you could go buy a car for CASH...for the AVERAGE PERSON that is a DIRECT change in your immediate financial lifestyle. If you buy the car with a "loan" it doesn't really change or AFFECT your lifestyle to the same degree. And you know this...unless of course YOU CAN AFFORD TO DO IT WITH CASH BECAUSE YOU ARE WEALTHY OR HAVE SPENT A GREAT DEAL OF TIME SAVING FOR THIS TRANSACTION. If that is the case CONGRATULATIONS!!!! You also constantly fail to equate the "consolidation" option of the program. Give it a rest. The MMA works, again, get over it.

This is actually a great example, because by the terms you use in the MLM pitch, if I buy the car with my "idle cash" (your words form the MLM pitch), you are saying it DOES affect my lifestyle, but if I take out a loan, it doesn't

Yet, by analogy, you make the exact reverse pitch with the MLM scam, that applying "idle cash" to you mortgage DOES NOT affect your lifestyle.

JayK is right, there are two camps

1. Those that see the numbers clearly that MMA / MLM is oversold hype
2. The scammers and those that are still scammed

I'm done responding to you. You won't face the fact it's a legitimate company, program or anything else. Your whining cause of the costs,and you think taking $10,00.00 out of "liquid" cash to by a car is the same as paying $200 month for the car loan...one affects you very differently then the other...especially for the average person. That is the fact. That is what the MMA allows you to do. Move larger sums of money to pay off a large interest loan (mortgage) while paying a MUCH SMALLER amount of interest to accomplish this. This is done everyday with credit cards. The HELOC also provides a "cushion" to access additional funds if necessary.

According to The American Heritage Dictionary, the word mortgage
is derived from Latin and Old French – “mort” meaning dead and
“gage” meaning pledge – or, in loose translation, “pledge unto death.”

I'm sorry you don't like the program. But I'm very happy paying down my mortgage with the MMA.....and so are about 12,000 others. And this has all happened in less than 9 months....oh yeah....some scam.

confuseu said: Move sums of money to pay off a large interest loan (mortgage) while paying a MUCH SMALLER amount of interest to accomplish this. .

More accurately

Move sums of money to pay off a low interest loan(mortgage) while paying a MUCH HIGhER rate of interest to accomplish this.

If you borrow $x at a high rate (HELOC) to pay off a low rate mortgage, every month, month after month, you come out behind

Doesn't matter if x is $1, $10, or $100 or any other number. (This is called math and it uses variables). The larger the average daily balance in the HELOC, the more you lose.

confuseu said:[I'm done responding to you.

Really? I hope this is one promise you will keep. Everything else has been hype

uutxs said:ellory said:confuseu said: Move sums of money to pay off a large interest loan (mortgage) while paying a MUCH SMALLER amount of interest to accomplish this. .

<snip>If you borrow $x at a high rate (HELOC) to pay off a low rate mortgage, every month, month after month, you come out behind

Doesn't matter if x is $1, $10, or $100 or any other number. (This is called math and it uses variables). The larger the average daily balance in the HELOC, the more you lose.
And it is woth repeating: It doesnt matter how long or short it takes to payoff the HELOC. As long as it is at a higher rate than the mortgage, borrowing from the HELOC to pre-pay the mortgage doesnt make sense. This is simple math to most OD us here and has been demonstrated several times in this thread.

Who said I"m paying large sums of money every month towards my principle?

confuseu said:
Who said I"m paying large sums of money every month towards my principle?You did. I quoted you. Go back and read your prior post.

And, please, stop responding, as you promised

confuseu said:And this has all happened in less than 9 months....oh yeah....some scam.

Thanks, you finally admitted it, it is some scam! Move on, this software and United Scam Financial is very shady.

I like it

All the people who have not bought the UFF scheme agree it is a scam, but what about the question: what is better, to float with HYS, or to float with a (free of charge) HELOC ?

AnthonyU and I had a nice chat, and tried to find the breakeven point. That one must exist can be pretty easily recognized by the extreme positions of float: If you only get one day, then HYS is obviously better; while if you get a full month's float, the HELOC is obviously better.

The effective interest Rate:
I contend that if the effective rate (ER) of the HELOC is Y (where Y < 1), then the ER of the HYS is (1-Y). To convince this is the case, consider a salary of 10,000, that could be put in a HYS and is found to have an ADB of 3000. This means that the ER is .3. It also can be explained as spending 7000 on day 1 of the cycle, and no more money for the rest of the month. If this money was put into a perfect HELOC float scheme, on the start of the cycle the balance is zero, and we will be paying our bills with debt for the remainder of the cycle. Again, we pay out 7000 on day 1, and nothing further for the remainder of the month, and so the ER of the HELOC is 0.7.
So, HELOC ER + HYS ER = 1.

The effect of discretionary salary on float calcs:
The point I wish to convince of here, is that the breakpoint for determining whether a HELOC float or a HYS float returns more, is NOT dependent on salary. First, it seems clear that discretionary salary plays not part, since we can also set the minimum monthly home loan payment to soak up the discretionary money, and Anthony has shown that direct payments to the home loan as the money becomes available, is cheaper than taking out HELOC debt to prepay a large amount that is then paid on the direct payment time schedule.

The other proof is that the breakpoint is independent of salary:
S: salary
Y: ER of the HELOC
ML: mortgage loan rate
HYS: HYS savings rate

To recap the breakpoint formula:
ML*S = HELOC*Y*S + HYS*(1-Y)*S -- The S cancels out,
And the ER breakpoint (Y) is equal to
(ML - HYS)/(HELOC - HYS)

E.g., if HELOC =9%, HYS = 5%, and the ML = 6%, then the ER is 25%. As an aside, a HELOC ER of 25% (or HYS of 75%) is a VERY lofty goal that I doubt is achievable, and suggests that as a practical matter, float through HYS is is better idea than float through HELOC. It should be clear that an ER below breakpoint favors HELOC, while an ER above breakpoint favors the HYS approach when ER is relative to the HELOC.

Your explanation demonstrates that you do not know how the product works. It has nothing to do with sending your idle cash to the mortgage. It as an interest cancellation methodology and has been successfully in use for 12 years in Australia.

For everyone else who wants to know how it works, feel free to contact me. My advice is to talk to someone who actually either owns / uses the software or who actually knows how the product works.

This poster does not understand the product at all.

please examine further how the program works as you are missing it. And to correct your math, your mortgage is only 6% (as used in your example) once you average it out over 30years. Year 1 it is 80%+. It is not until year 16-20 that you actually get to paying 50% of your payment towards principle.

So, when you can offset that principle in the early periods it has a dramatic long term result. It's just math as you say.