kkerty89's AOR 6/2007 updated 7/18 (:-( Adverse action documented 8/22)

This is my first documented AOR. Thanks to all who have documented their AORs through painstaking documentation and I wish to return the favor. I conducted it today starting at 7AM CST.

Background:

Age: 32
HHI: 71K personal 375K HH including business
No significant debt showing on CCS (one $423 balance on an AMEX)

Current Accounts Personal:
Card Name / (Balance displayed on CR) / Credit Limit / Age in years
Chase 1 /0 /5000 /2.55
Chase 2 /0 /45000 /5.14
Citi /0 /3700 /4.89
citi AT & T /0 /9700 /4.89
Penfed reg account /0 /18000 /2.05
MBNA AMEX /0 /2000 /2.63
MBNA Quantum /0 /10900 /2.63
MBNA HGW4 /0 /1000 /2.80
MBNA HGW1 /0 /45400 /2.80
MBNA HGW1 /0 /2000 /2.80
BOA /0 /8200 /7.05
Discover /0 /6000 /7.14
Discover 2 /0 /6250 /3.80
AMEX Blue /423 /36000 /4.55
AMEX Green /0 /14000 /4.80
HSBC GMC card not showing /600 /1.50
compassbank /0 /10000 /0.47

total /423 /223750 /3.81

Business Cards: Carried Balance / Credit Limit (I disregarded utilization on business cards to see if it mattered, I believe this will interest some)

simply cash AMEX /59000 /71000 0 till 12/07
advanta /0 /5000
chase /9500 /10000 0 till 12/07
discover /11000 /12000 0 till 12/07
boa /20000 /20000 0 till 12/07
citi /19000 /20000 0 till 12/07
AMEX platinum business /1100 /6000 sorry forgot to add this card added 6/29

Total 119600 /144000

Inquiries 2 years
TU 6
EX 12
EQ 13

Inquiries 6 months
TU 2
EX 4
eq 2

Prep I did:
Reallocated 2 chase lines to 45K & 5K from 24.5K & 25.5K
Reallocated 3 MBNA cards to 45.4K
Clicked Citi button, to go from 7700 to 9700 on citi
Waited for those to show up on CR
signed up at True Credit for daily pulls and monitoring
spent 15-20 hours reading AOR threads and finding apps
signed up for fidelity account

Goal:
Diverify Credit. With substantial lines at citi, chase discover, AMEX and BOA -- I wanted to expand to the mid majors as best I could to round out credit and improve future AOR ability. BT arbitrage and bonuses.

Cards applied for and in the order. If BT requested with app it is noted.

1 HSBC CashBack -- targeted offer 0%BT fee $75 thru June 08 -- approved instant $11,500. Balance transfer req after decision -- Pulled EQ
2 ESPN WAMU -- targeted offer 0%BT fee $75 to 7/1/08 -- approved instant 30K (requested 30K BT) Pulled TU
3 Bank Atlantic business card (Juniper/Barclay) 15 mos 0% BT $75 fee -- deferred -- no bt requested. Pulled TU -- approved 6/21 afternoon, limit unknown -- 6/25 show me the money, 30K
4 FNBO 12 mos 0% 75 fee -- -- deferred -- I tried Pulled EX 6/21 and....? still pending 6/25, 6/26 still pending) 6/28 -- approved, limit unknown, 6/29 limit 15K -- we'll see still not counting my interest yet. 1 thing I didnt note $10 reward check with approval, $10 reward check at first purchase, so a $20 bonus.
5 Travelocity Juniper/Barclay 9 months 0% BT $50 fee, essentially a $100 bonus, 2% CashBack card. -- deferred -- Pulled TU -- approved 6/21 afternoon, limit unknown -- 6/25 10K
6 rbs 10 months bt 0% $60 fee -- approved instant, amount unknown Pulled EQ -- 6/25 6K
7 principal infibank $75 fee 12 mos 0% bt, req 24k to an mbna card -- deferred Pulled EX --- 6/25 still pending -- 6/26 approved 15K
8 nat city 0% bt 6 months no fee, requested 18k to citi Pulled TU -- approved 10K 6/25
9 m & t bank biz card 6 mos 0% no fee -- deferred Pulled EX ? only one Elan pull not sure its this one -- needed more info, gave it to them 6/25 -- 6/26 pulled EX on 25th and approved for 15K
10 chase sony card $100 bonus 0% 75 fee 12 mos bt, looking to reallocate -- deferred Which one did they pull? -- pulled EX -- 6/25 still pending refused to send me to analyst, hey chase arent you the biggest bank? WTF's taking so long -- 6/26 rcvd call from analyst, approved 5K
11 fidelity 1.5% cashback1.5% CashBack and expand mbna billpay -- deferred GEMB/GEMON or FIA CSNA? EQ OR EX? 6/24 Appr 5K
12 one of the elan 6 mos 0% no fee banks First Place bank 6 mos 0% no fee -- deferred Pulled EX ? only one Elan pull not sure its this one 6/25 appr 5K
13 nat city biz 0% bt 6 months no fee -- somebodys going to call me I have to sign something? -- defrred at best. Pulled yet? Pulled 6/23, 6/25 update needed info, gave it to them, 'going to approve' limit unknown. -- 6/26 limit is 20K
14 AMEX in Chicago through cardselection.com 0% no fee BT 6 months -- approved instant 15K -- Pulled EX
15 Citi's drivers edge card through cardselection.com 0% BT no fee 12 months -- nice rewards, have 12 months to make BT -- deferred Pulled EX -- 6/25 approved 3600 (see professional card limit 5 pulls later, lol, wtf)
16 schwaber $50 statement credit expand mbna billpay -- deferred' GEMB/GEMON or FIA CSNA? EQ OR EX? 6/23 Approved 5K (reduced current line by 5K, but did get fidelity 5K without reduction)
17 ge cash rewards 0% BT 12 months, but unlimited fee. if approved I can use the purchases at 0%. -- deferred -- dont think they pulled yet. 6/25 DECLINED -- REASON WAS UNABLE TO ID ME
18 US BANK 0% purchases -- DECLINED INSTANT (after further research I missed they own Elan probably the reason for decline, second app) 6/26 during M & T conversation got reason for decline -- out of geographical region.
19 penfed 1.25% CashBack card. requested 28K limit -- deferred -- pulled EQ --- approved 6/22, see notes in update
20 citi proffessional through cardselection.com -- Pulled EX -- 6/25 approved 25K (3600 on drivers edge with less inq, lol. maybe if I apply for another one with 10 inquiries showing I'll get 100K)
21 Wachovia -- phone app. Was much higher on the list, but I didnt catch I couldnt apply online. Wachovia 6 months no fee 0% BT -- long shot but figured I'd try. 'send to CC dept' -- Pulled EQ -- 6/25 10K approval. Quite pleased with this one as I almost didnt apply.
Edit: post AOR, 1 hour later -- havent pulled yet --
22 Cap one no hassle --- $500 CL instant approval -- pulled all 3

FAKO's (true scores are close from a recent mortgage app)
TU EX EQ
6/10/2007 774 752 763
6/11/2007 774 752 763
6/12/2007 774 752 763
6/13/2007 774 752 763
6/14/2007 774 752 763
6/15/2007 774 752 763
6/16/2007 none none none
6/17/2007 777 752 765
6/18/2007 777 752 765
6/19/2007 777 752 765
6/20/2007 777 752 765 pre AOR
6/21/2007 768 732 754 Post AOR
6/22/2007 777 716 752 Chase pulled EX, Wachovia EQ (both on 6/21) All 5 TU Inq disappeared? reporting on EX: BOA took 5K from my 45.4K account and reported the 28K billpay balance. Appears I was approved for one of fidelity or schwab with this 5K. Barclays showed up on EX with 10K limit.
6/23/2007 766 716 752 TU inqs came back, NC (Biz?) pulled 6/23
6/24/2007 756 716 706 BOA 28K billpay balance showed up on TU & EQ EQ took it especially hard.
NC inq disappeared from TU. FIA account as unknown type showed up on EX.
6/25/2007 754 716 706 NC inq came back on TU
6/26/2007 754 701 706 1 pull from Elan only thing I see on EX, not sure why 15 point drop
6/27/2007 752 701 708 FIA CSNA account showed on EX. 1 old inquiry dissolved naturally on EQ
6/28/2007 752 701 709 citi prof showed up on EX, FIA CSNA showed up on EQ.
6/29/2007 752 701 709
6/30/2007 737 701 709
7/1/2007 no pull
7/2/2007 737 698 715
7/3/2007 737 698 715
7/4/2007 737 701 715
7/5/2007 737 701 752 less than 50% util showed up on MBNA card on EQ
7/6/2007 739 694 752
7/7/2007
7/8/2007 739 696 752
7/9/2007 732 696 752
7/10/2007 732 693 752
7/11/2007 none
7/12/2007 732 693 752
7/13/2007 732 685 749 salem five pulled EQ
7/14/2007 732 685 749
7/15/2007 732 685 749
7/16/2007 721 676 748
7/17/2007 724 676 748 First bump on TU.
7/18/2007

BT Plans:
Will update after this is done.

Sent BT's from Bank Atlantic to a MBNA billpay card. Done.

HSBC & Providian -- sent 9K and 29.5K respectively to a chase card I used to open a citi bank account.

Wrote check to self on Travelocity card.

Reallocated most of free AMEX lines to IN Chicago card to get it up to 70K and sent 5 BT's to 5 billpay cards (including 2 of the wifes) to clear all of the balances. This is in process. All 5 transfers completed.

Refilled Largest MBNA line Transferred 11K from FNBO and 11K from Principal card and 15K M & T Bank to billpay card CONFIRMED INFIBANK=FNBO. Interms of BT couldnt transfer to FNBO bank.

Reallocated Chase lines to 50K and 2 smaller lines. I figure if I'm going to get adverse action its from CHASE. I requested 2 transfers totalling 48.5K (max transfer is 35K) and requested they waive the fees. Sent this to AMEX to clear it as a no fee card.

Going to refill ALL billpay cards after cycle closes and use either AMEX and/or national city and/or citibank to transfer. Ideally I could write a BT check to wife and deposit for AMEX, but would prefer to stay under radar and do 'normal transfers' Probably take me another month or so to fill everything up to where I want to be in BT land.

Inquiries:

FNB OMAHA 06/21/2007 Experian

CITI 06/21/2007 Experian

FIRST USA,NA 06/21/2007 Experian (showed up after 6/21 pull in this order)

CAPITAL ONE BANK 06/21/2007 Experian

INFIBANK 06/21/2007 Experian

AMEX 06/21/2007 Experian

CITI 06/21/2007 Experian

CBNA 06/21/2007 Experian

ELAN FINANCIAL SERVICE 06/21/2007 Experian

FIA CSNA 06/21/2007 Experian

HSBC NV 06/21/2007 Equifax

RBS 06/21/2007 Equifax

GEMB/GEMON 06/21/2007 Equifax

PENTAGON 06/21/2007 Equifax

CAPONEBANK 06/21/2007 Equifax

WACHOVIACC 06/21/2007 Equifax (showed up after 6/21 pull in this order)

CAP ONE BANK 06/21/2007 TransUnion

NCBK-NCCS 06/21/2007 TransUnion

BRCLYSBANKDE 06/21/2007 TransUnion

BRCLYSBANKDE 06/21/2007 TransUnion

WASHMTL/PROV 06/21/2007 TransUnion

NCBK-NCCS 06/23/2007 TransUnion

ELAN FINANCIAL SERVICE 06/25/2007 Experian

Where is Chase's pull? Ans: Came in later in the day.

Will add edits and updates as needed. Comments welcome.

Edit: 6/21 12:15CST to add Inquiries and credit score

Edit: 6/22 8:15 CST was approved for 2 Juniper/Barclay cards via email yesterday afternoon, unknown limit. Penfed had a note on my app page that essentially said Penfed had a hard 40k limit for a members credit cards.
i asked for 30 on the CashBack card and 10 on existing line.

Edit: 6/25 lhendricks92 style round robin calling today. Time consuming as heck. Updated most items above with a 6/25 before the notes. Pretty good news today, a little irritated with the lines 6K and below as its tough to do anything with them BT wise.

Edit 6/26 -- M & T (Elan) pulled yesterday, I guess the missing info prevented pull, but they still approved. Everything done with approval stage except FN'BO. Hoping to start getting cards and avoid neg reaction.

Edit 6/29 -- FNBO approved 6/28, found limit assigned of 15K today. Bank Atlantic limits Balance transfers to just under 20K per transfer, costed an extra BT fee.

Edit 7/5 (AM) -- I have received all cards except NC Biz, FNBO and Sony. National City put me through the 'we think your ID got ripped off' ringer to activate the card. I had to go into any bank for an ID check. I bad BOA branch manager call in, they Call ID'd them and then I had to send in 3 utility bills and 3 paystubs. I was not pleased and let them know that when I faxed in the docs. Card finally active, but WHAT A HASSLE. Added to do list.

Edit 7/18 -- I have all 20 cards. BT's in progress

Tally:
Approvals: 20
Deferred: 0
Declined: 2 (1 due to geographic restriction, and 1 due to inability to verify identity)
Additional Credit: $253,600

Overall New Credit: $613,350. 69% increase in available credit
Biz: $201,000
Pers: $412,350

To do:
Citi prof -- try reallocation, then xfers within 12 months -- probably do this one first, pay off and try reallocate to drivers edge in 11 months. Do BT's in $1500 chunks to get $5 per transfer. 7/18 reallocation didnt work (nothing happened online)

citi drivers edge, see above, use for grocery etc first year.

Pay down providian card to 89%

Both National City cards give 60 days to transfer and get 6 billing cycles (can this be maximized by transferring right after first cycle close?)

Wachovia, call to do transfer, try to get them to commit to larger line with larger transfer -- didnt raise limit

First place bank, elan card -- transfer 49% (no fee)

nice call on the 3 Bank Atlantic business card! Where'd you find that one?

so, did you report 375K as HHI? 71K personal? does your business not pay you a salary?

lhendricks92 said: nice call on the 3 Bank Atlantic business card! Where'd you find that one?

so, did you report 375K as HHI? 71K personal? does your business not pay you a salary?

First, great job on your thread. top notch, used it as a template, lol.

71K regular w-2 salary, the rest of it sole prop/eBay.... 'started this year' for convenience and documentation reqs. If there was just one slot. I put in 375K, if there was 2 I put in 71K and 304K. I dug through the MEGA thread for hours using it as a baseline Looking at app after app.... -- thats where I found the Bank Atlantic card.

kkerty89 said: lhendricks92 said: nice call on the 3 Bank Atlantic business card! Where'd you find that one?

so, did you report 375K as HHI? 71K personal? does your business not pay you a salary?

First, great job on your thread. top notch, used it as a template, lol.

71K regular w-2 salary, the rest of it sole prop/eBay.... 'started this year' for convenience and documentation reqs. If there was just one slot. I put in 375K, if there was 2 I put in 71K and 304K. I dug through the MEGA thread for hours using it as a baseline Looking at app after app.... -- thats where I found the Bank Atlantic card.

yes, the similarity of your formatting did not escape me.

i mined that MEGA thread, too. that's how i found M&T Bank. i should have given credit to PolarDude.

good luck, i can't wait to see how things shake out.

markkundinger said: Not many instants, but I expect good things given your credit history, income, and scores.

What's an HGW?

Assuming you get the Chase Sony card, and can reallocate to it, you can really do some BT damage there. I didn't see an app for a BofA/MBNA card that would be a BT candidate though?

sorry HGW -- it was a 10% card -- archived MBNA hgw thread

while it is demoralizing not getting instants, you have to keep pushing through.

i have a cap one platinum mastercard that i got a 0% for 12 months back in march. I cannot see how you could not get the $30k with your HHI.

i would also rec a cap one business card

kkerty89 said: markkundinger said: Not many instants, but I expect good things given your credit history, income, and scores.

What's an HGW?

Assuming you get the Chase Sony card, and can reallocate to it, you can really do some BT damage there. I didn't see an app for a BofA/MBNA card that would be a BT candidate though?

sorry HGW -- it was a 10% card -- archived MBNA hgw thread

while it is demoralizing not getting instants, you have to keep pushing through.

Ahhh the HGW cards. That was when I first came to FWF and that was an awesome deal!

jairocon said: kkerty89 - congrats on well executed aor - and for typing it up so quick. I still need to type mine up (shame on me for being so slow). Good luck on all the apps!

thanks, I think the latest round of aors are going to be valuable to senior memers with a substantial credit history. Moving to the mid majors requires a lot of thought. Order becomes even more important. I'm curious to see what the majors do being way down the list. chase, citi, boa aren't going to give us 1M at 0%, so at a certain point its important we find more sources. I thought real hard about doing FNBO & state farm and then waiting for the cards to be on the way before doing the full blown aor, I didnt want to blow the whole thing for those 2 though. I just did FNBO early and held off on state farm. Maybe I'll try that on Mrs Kkerty89's aor

ok, TU's 5 inquiries disappeared? Time for another TU exclusive AOR? What cards pull TU only? If this is real and they stay off I may apply for more Monday.

kkerty89 said: lhendricks92 said: nice call on the 3 Bank Atlantic business card! Where'd you find that one?

so, did you report 375K as HHI? 71K personal? does your business not pay you a salary?

First, great job on your thread. top notch, used it as a template, lol.

71K regular w-2 salary, the rest of it sole prop/eBay.... 'started this year' for convenience and documentation reqs. If there was just one slot. I put in 375K, if there was 2 I put in 71K and 304K. I dug through the MEGA thread for hours using it as a baseline Looking at app after app.... -- thats where I found the Bank Atlantic card.Wow, if I was pulling in $304k in income from eBay I wouldn't bother with a W-2 job. Of course, I'm betting you're not pulling in $304k of income from the business.

lhendricks92 said: beckles, are you asking gross vs net?I'm not asking anything, I think that the OP is representing business revenue as business income, which are not the same thing.

Beckles said: lhendricks92 said: beckles, are you asking gross vs net?I'm not asking anything, I think that the OP is representing business revenue as business income, which are not the same thing.

Its prorated for this year and that figure is somewhere in the middle of revenue and income, but I've been up there for about a year and a half. I do think a lot about no w-2 job and is my goal. I have no interest in being traditional and getting my butt up at 5:30 every morning for 30 more years. I just want a substantial financial base in place before I do it, it is a lot of pressure to provide for your family with no w-2 job. Everything becomes extremely magnified when its all on you. I dont see myself making (anywhere near) that much long run and while I could document it, I took advantage of it for application purposes.

man, i wish i had the sack to put unrealized capital gains on my applications. i say anything contributing to net worth qualifies as "income."

chuckalo said: It is interesting if you go read the archived threads that some of the "elders" who preach to never lie about income and to not get business cards if you don't have business actually recommend that if you have $10,000 a month in rental revenue but $9,999 in mortgages and expenses that you should include the entire $120,000 in income.

I'm not sure why real estate and self-owned business should get to put top line revenue instead of bottom line profits.
I think the difference is that when you're paying a mortgage, you are essentially building equity (as well as paying interest of course). When you are selling on e-Bay, the difference between what you paid for an item and what you sold an item (minus fees) is your profit or income.

Notice I said the ENTIRE $120,000 in income. Certainly a portion will build equity but a great amount will go towards expenses, taxes, and interest that will never be recovered.

Also if you are counting the equity as you build it as income this year, are you telling me you aren't going to count the capital gains when you sell the property as income? Because that would be counting it twice as "income".

Beckles said: Gross income = Revenue less cost of sales.

yep, you're right. i stand corrected. however, there's also a difference between gross income and net income. your original comment referred to the generic term "income," which was confusing. that was my only point.

carry on.

r0man said: 21 Wachovia -- phone app. Was much higher on the list, but I didnt catch I couldnt apply online. Wachovia 6 months no fee 0% BT -- long shot but figured I'd try. 'send to CC dept' -- Pulled EQ

kkerty89,
I phoned in my Wachovia app on Monday and was initially denied. I called the credit department at 866-900-0662 and was told that the computer automatically rejected me because of too many inquiries (about 8 TU at the time). After manually reviewing my file, the nice lady approved me and asked what kind of credit line I wanted. I mentioned I wanted to do a large BT and she game me $20K line of which I BT $17K to my BofA BillPay card. I definitely got the impression that the BT request allowed her to give me a higher line.

It was the only one of my ~30 apps that was denied so far, with 4 more to go. But then I avoided FNBO, Principal and State Farm. Most were initially deferred.

Good luck.
Roman

thanks. great input and advice. Another thanks for updating the credit card application status thread.

amalpani said: lhendricks92 said: nice call on the 3 Bank Atlantic business card! Where'd you find that one?

so, did you report 375K as HHI? 71K personal? does your business not pay you a salary?

What was the line on the Bank Atlantic Card?


Just updated. Quite pleased with 30K.

kkerty89 said: Kind of unhappy with 6K from RBS, I didnt see much on these guys in terms of CLI, I did see cardjuggler got ~16K from RBS in the card issuer FAQ. Any thing additional known?

I only got $7K from RBS. I've received plenty of $20K+ lines from the same AOR, so I'm in the same boat as you.

WRT Bank Atlantic, the credit department there claims that they didn't receive an app from me. I applied on 6/18 and can't tell if they did a hard pull. Could you please tell me which CRA they pulled and what they were listed under? I called 866-383-0312, but maybe there's another number to try?

Thanks.
Roman

r0man said: kkerty89 said: Kind of unhappy with 6K from RBS, I didnt see much on these guys in terms of CLI, I did see cardjuggler got ~16K from RBS in the card issuer FAQ. Any thing additional known?

I only got $7K from RBS. I've received plenty of $20K+ lines from the same AOR, so I'm in the same boat as you.

WRT Bank Atlantic, the credit department there claims that they didn't receive an app from me. I applied on 6/18 and can't tell if they did a hard pull. Could you please tell me which CRA they pulled and what they were listed under? I called 866-383-0312, but maybe there's another number to try?

Thanks.
Roman

try calling this number for status (866) 663 6536

amalpani said: They pulled TU and it is under the name " BRCLYSBANKDE ". I applied for the Bank Atlantic Card as well.

Thank you amalpani,
Yep, they pulled my TU on 6/18. When I call the regular Barclays status line (866-663-6536) they tell me my business application is 'pending'. I'm only worried because my TU report was listing an incorrect address until a few days ago and I had to verify my address on several apps in order to have them processed. I've called 3 or 4 different numbers given to me by reps at the Barclays line with no luck.
I haven't received a letter from Bank Atlantic like I did with RBS, National City and Hooters. I think I need to speak to their credit department directly before it's too late.

kkerty89, I apologize for jacking your thread. I won't take it personally if you tell me to go away.

kkerty89 said: jackcrawfish said: kkerty89 said: Ok, time to really start thinking about the future
.....
4) Rev up new AOR with a more Business Centered approach and utilize credit lines currently in place rather than a mass apply approach in hopes of continually being able to take advantage of promotions. I guess the term is a rolling AOR.Have you been "rolling" or are you going to do a "FullBlown BIZAOR"?thanks for the f/u....Oh...

you mean "follow/up"....

and here I thought I offended you in some way.