Law School vs. MBA and Graduate School: The Advantages and Disadvantages Financially and Career Wise

Hey everyone,

I know I’m probably going to get flamed for this but I’m looking for some detailed advice from some fellow Fatwalleters who might have made, or thought about making the decision I’m going through.

Here's my situation, I’m going to be a junior in college graduating with a degree in Finance and minor in Economics. From the start of my college career I have looked toward eventually going into law school and my competitive academic record and gpa make this a very achievable goal, however I also am struggling with the fact that I could go on to get an MBA. I've been told that the majority of people who get an MBA do so after spending time working, and I’m reluctant about that since once I start working I might not get around to it like I will if I commit to something right out of college. So here are my questions:

1. Has anyone been in this situation and made a choice one way or the other?
2. I know law has a high degree of dissatisfaction among people who are lawyers. I think I would enjoy law but it’s very hard to know without actual experience in the field. Does anyone know of/work in a field of law that has a lot to do with finance, since it's a major interest of mine?
3. For those of you with MBAs, has anyone entered straight out of college, and if not, how easy was it for you to return to get an MBA once employed?
4. I know they are very different degrees, and because of the high dissatisfaction in the law field, what advantages would a law degree hold if I went to law school but instead of practicing law directly, used my Finance/Law background to work in the area of Finance?
5. Money. What's more cost effective? I know its very hard to gauge how much one would make with an MBA over a JD because you can be a one man show in a rural town or a big partner in a huge firm. But in your opinion, which is the more valuable degree with more potential for increased income.

I appreciate everyone who is willing to help me out with his or her knowledge and advice. I have had very little in the way of first hand advice from those who are actually in the field and hope this thread can help to expand my knowledge (and others in my situation).

Study for and take the LSAT and see how you feel afterwards. As tired and beat up after that 6-8 hour ordeal is (if I remember correctly, with breaks here and there), imagine feeling like that every day for a year or longer if you decide to stay.

Also, imagine having professors intellectually beat up the students on a daily basis and feeling like you're in front of a firing squad and getting no grades on anything all semester until final exams which last 3-4 hours each and you will have no clue what exactly will be on the test and how exactly to frame your 10-20 pages of essay answers.

Then after 3 years of that imagine taking a series of tests that take two weeks long.

I will be looking at Graduate school myself in the next year. I will have a BA in Business: Marketing from SDSU (one of the better schools for business is the state compared to public and even some private schools). I want to become a pilot and while I could just go on from the BA to a specific training with an authorized instructor, I am trying to figure out if it would be better to have the MBA as a fall back plan as oppossed to the BA. But the opprotunity cost is the time wasted I could have been training.

Now you will probably get flamed for mentioning the law school part, except for by CN47, but I have only seen it to be a personal situation from one individual to another. No one can really tell you how to run your life or what is better because the biggest cost of this is not the money, but the time. My mother just graduated last semester from a NorCal Univ. (NO NOT THE 91 YEAR OLD IN THE NEWS!) with her MBA and says she wishes she would have done that right out of college but had my sister and then me and this was the first she really even needed the MBA to move up in her job. Unfortunatley, hindsight is 20/20 following you decision, but good luck making the right one.

PS I flamed you

BillRHIT said: But, ask any lawyer is he'd trade his job for a job at McDonald's making 1/5th or so of the money. My bet is no one would.

If I could make 1/5 of my salary for a job at McDonald's... Wait, what would I be doing at McDonald's? If I'd still be practicing law, then forget it. Flipping burgers, you've got a deal.

thejuice said: Stiggzz said: Study for and take the LSAT and see how you feel afterwards. As tired and beat up after that 6-8 hour ordeal is (if I remember correctly, with breaks here and there), imagine feeling like that every day for a year or longer if you decide to stay.

Also, imagine having professors intellectually beat up the students on a daily basis and feeling like you're in front of a firing squad and getting no grades on anything all semester until final exams which last 3-4 hours each and you will have no clue what exactly will be on the test and how exactly to frame your 10-20 pages of essay answers.

Then after 3 years of that imagine taking a series of tests that take two weeks long.

I cannot agree with these sentiments as a recent law school graduate (5/06) myself.

Can it be hard work? Yes. Are there long days? Sometimes. But it's not always grueling and intense (and I was as "busy" as they're supposed to come - law review, law review editorial board etc).

On the whole, I found the experience to be quite rewarding. I love my job, I love my work - it's been a great experience thus far. The biggest drawback for me personally was the cost. I went to a private school that is incredibly expensive - so do consider the cost of schooling before your dive in.

Also, as you may find out through responses on here and elsewhere: people either loved law school and being a lawyer, or can't stand either experience. I think much of this has to do with one's general demeanor and personality. For instance, as a first-year, when everyone has the exact same amount of work to do - you'll find that some 1Ls will complain about their workload to other diligent, content, and non-complaining 1Ls (with the exact same amount of work).

You should cautiously listen to the responses re: law school/legal jobs, and look at the overall personality of the person when weighing their responses. Miserable people will be unhappy whether they're a lawyer or not, and those who complain will do so no matter their situation. Good luck no matter your choice.

Don't confuse a person's personality with work ethic. I worked my tail off, was one of the quiet ones, was told my argument on my first appellate brief was one of the best my professor had heard (got an A on the brief too) and got a 3.3 for the year. And I still hated it. Lots and lots of practicing attorneys are alcoholics (higher % than the regular population). It's not for everyone isn't the same as it's only for the hard workers.

One thing to consider with law school is that only the top schools, and top graduates get the jobs at the big firms... There are a lawyers that don't
make that great of salaries...

A good friend of mine graduated in the top 3% of his class in chemical engineering at UT, and then went to UT law, and graduated top 5%... He came out with 135,000 in student loans, lived hella cheap and paid them off in 1 year with a large firm salary... He works 70 hours a week...

If you can get into a top school and graduate at the top you can do very well, but will work a lot of hours.... What do you want out of life?

Geo123 - I was sharing my experience in law school with the OP - not looking for you to pick apart every word I say line by line. It's a discussion forum. Discuss (not attack). The attack forum is probably what you do for a living, given your defensive response to my post - and your nasty reply shows another lovely trait of lawyers which I won't mention here as I'm sure your mother tells you often.

Feel free to click the little negative button, as I will with you.

Cut and dry this is a personal decision. You told us your major, but what are your aspirations in life? All I get from your post is money (although you hint at finance...but after only two years in Ugrad, do you really know. Have you even taken an upper-level class yet?).

An MBA or JD can lead to the same ends, and neither have to be management or law related, respectively. But IMHO, any potential employer you interview with after attaining either advanced degree is going to want to see some related experience, especially in the corporate world...practicing law, maybe not so much beyond interships during the summers; a JD working at an accounting firm or tax firm, most definately.

Working for a few years after Ugrad is not such a bad thing, and will give you a better idea what you may want to do in life. Either degree is a large financial and or time commitment, and at the outset the whole experience may seem glamourous, but it really is not. Your family and friends might be impressed with you, must most do not feel that way while going through it.

I cannot speak for the MBA programs out there, but Law school can be a humbling experience to those that excelled in other areas of higher education; it is a trudge through your first year, then a slow winding road the rest of the way. Even the most diligent student can get burnt out competing against the best of the best from our nation's various colleges (someone give me a push...just one more year to go). Ugrad to me was just about making an effort, as most students are not prepared or willing to do so...as long as you try and put forth a real effort, you can get that A. Advanced degree programs are another story. Everyone is willing to work; everyone wants the opportunities that come from graduating at the top of your class. Those few that do not work hard fall to the bottom or drop out.

I think in the end, with either an MBA or a JD you will have many more opportunities than most with just a 4-year BA or BS degree. But it all depends what you do along the way and what you do with the degree once you have it. Graduate from a top school, the doors open for you; graduate at the top of your class from a good school, some doors open, others do not. Graduate from a good school in the middle of your class or from some unknown regional school, you better create your own doors or know how to push your way in somewhere.

Stiggzz said: Geo123 - I was sharing my experience in law school with the OP - not looking for you to pick apart every word I say line by line. It's a discussion forum. Discuss. Feel free to click the little negative button, as I will with you.Again, what specifically about your experience that you disliked? Drawing a false analogy between the exhaustion one feel after taking a standardized test and the way the OP will feel "for a year or longer" doesn't tell us much. Instead of telling us just how miserable you were, list some of the REASONS that you felt that way. What are these series of two week long tests that you refer to?

The hours in law school are exhausting. My class lectures were about 3 hours each, twice a week per class. When you go home you get to read cases (edit: TONS OF CASES, 2-3 hours of reading per class) which for the most part can be summarized by your professor in 2 minutes. All but two of my professors used the rapid fire questioning that was very stressful (yes it prepared one for the career) but it was a shock coming out of undergrad to have a nasty torts professor sticking her finger in your face acting as if you were the defendant in the case at hand if you said the wrong thing. I compared it to the LSAT because both were time consuming, stressful, unenjoyable (wastes of time) in my life.

I stuck it out a year because I got a free ride just to show myself I could do it - but I would never personally go back to law school. It's hell in a classroom.

And FYI the state association for all the lawyer drunks in my state came to our 2L ethics class and talked about how lawyers are a bunch of angry bitter drunks, which is why I say proceed with caution and leave if you don't like it when talking about law school.

Stiggzz said: The hours in law school are exhausting. My class lectures were about 3 hours each, twice a week per class.Law school and undegraduate classes have the exact same schedule, which is based on the number of credit hours the class is intended to provide. As such, a 3 hour undergraduate class will require the exact same weekly attendance as that offered in law school.

When you go home you get to read cases (edit: TONS OF CASES, 2-3 hours of reading per class) which for the most part can be summarized by your professor in 2 minutes.As time goes on, you get more and more efficient, so it takes you very little time to get through everything. Towards the end, I was spending 15-20 minutes per class each day.

All but two of my professors used the rapid fire questioning that was very stressful (yes it prepared one for the career) but it was a shock coming out of undergrad to have a nasty torts professor sticking her finger in your face acting as if you were the defendant in the case at hand if you said the wrong thing.The exact manner of the socratic method differs from professor to professor and from one law school to another. Professors typically only haze 1L's -- it's fairly unusual to hear of second and third year classes employing hard core socratic method.

And FYI the state association for all the lawyer drunks in my state came to our 2L ethics class and talked about how lawyers are a bunch of angry bitter drunks, which is why I say proceed with caution and leave if you don't like it when talking about law school.Law school has made lawyers in your state drunks? As another poster already asked you above, do you know the difference between causation and correlation?

LawDawgAtl said: Stiggzz said: The hours in law school are exhausting. My class lectures were about 3 hours each, twice a week per class.Law school and undegraduate classes have the exact same schedule, which is based on the number of credit hours the class is intended to provide. As such, a 3 hour undergraduate class will require the exact same weekly attendance as that offered in law school.

When you go home you get to read cases (edit: TONS OF CASES, 2-3 hours of reading per class) which for the most part can be summarized by your professor in 2 minutes.As time goes on, you get more and more efficient, so it takes you very little time to get through everything. Towards the end, I was spending 15-20 per class each day.

All but two of my professors used the rapid fire questioning that was very stressful (yes it prepared one for the career) but it was a shock coming out of undergrad to have a nasty torts professor sticking her finger in your face acting as if you were the defendant in the case at hand if you said the wrong thing.The exact manner of the socratic method differs from professor to professor and from one law school to another. Professors typically only haze 1L's -- it's fairly unusual to hear of second and third year classes employing hard core socratic method.

And FYI the state association for all the lawyer drunks in my state came to our 2L ethics class and talked about how lawyers are a bunch of angry bitter drunks, which is why I say proceed with caution and leave if you don't like it when talking about law school.Law school has made lawyers in your state drunks? As another poster already asked you above, do you know the difference between causation and correlation?Amen.

Stiggzz said: I never said anything caused anything besides LawDawgAtl being an a**hole who was drawn to the law because of that fact.Bravo. He made one factual post disagreeing with you and pointing out specific problems with your statements and you immediately negged his post and labelled him an "a**hole." Way to go.

Now, to address some of the questions asked by the OP and raised by others in this thread, I've been practicing corporate law (syndicated and bilateral lending, loan workouts, bond financing, leveraged buyouts and commercial real estate development) for a few years and absolutely LOVE it! Just like with any job out there, I have plenty of moments when I want to tear my hair out, quit and move to Whistler to become a ski instructor but at the end of the day I just cannot imagine not being a lawyer.

I started out with a 1,000+ lawyer international firm, then switched to a 20 lawyer boutique and then two years ago, after spending a couple of sleepless nights trying to make the right decision (and then a few more days trying to convince my now wife that my decision was the right one), switched back to another large firm (500 lawyer AM100 firm (the largest in its home state) with 10 offices all over the country). Some of my friends enjoy practicing law just as much as I do and some of them have decided that it's just not for them and have switched or are in the process of switching to other areas.

Lawyers have a tendency to b^tch about our profession and their lives and some truly are miserable, overworked and unhappy (I have a couple of friends like that). Quite a few of us, however, are able to find a nice balance between work and social life and have very few regrets about our chosen career paths or future prospects.

It's fun to work on matters that make the front page of NY Times; it's gratifying to work on intellectually challenging transactions that impact the markets in profound ways and influence the lives of tens of thousands of people; it's incredible to work with and to learn from people at the very top of their respective fields and to see their names on the "best of" lists (we have former state governors, former state and federal judges, authors of the same treatises taught in law schools, etc...); it's humbling to have expert answers to practically any legal question at your fingertips -- we have experts in practically every field. Combine all that with very reasonable hours that allow you to have a normal life and you'll understand at least some of the reasons that many of us absolutely love what we do and can't even fathom doing anything else.

P.S.
I am not the first one to say it, but I do have to admit that law wasn't my first calling. When I was the second person to realize (longwood was the first), however, that the market for gigolos catering exclusively to young, gorgeous women was a bit slow, I thought that law was an acceptable alternative.

I appriciate everyone's response both positive and negative.

isles1 said: Cut and dry this is a personal decision. You told us your major, but what are your aspirations in life? All I get from your post is money (although you hint at finance...but after only two years in Ugrad, do you really know. Have you even taken an upper-level class yet?).


My post is mostly about my possibilities with both degrees which incorporates money. I thought it would be wise to make the post that way since it's in a Finance forum and not a Personal Decisions and Aspirations forum. I do have many aspirations and good reasons for wanting to go law school but that is the personal decision part of the equation. Yes, I have taken upper level courses and I may never know if Finance is the best thing for me, and if I wait to make this decision much longer, the oppurtunity may pass me by. I was looking mostly for stories/tips from those who had made this decision in their lives or are in the fields and could offer any type of advice. Fatwallet is simply one of many resources i'm trying to utilize to make the best decisions about my future as I can.

Fattdawg said: BillRHIT said: But, ask any lawyer is he'd trade his job for a job at McDonald's making 1/5th or so of the money. My bet is no one would.

If I could make 1/5 of my salary for a job at McDonald's... Wait, what would I be doing at McDonald's? If I'd still be practicing law, then forget it. Flipping burgers, you've got a deal.

So you'd take 1/5 of your salary to flip burgers the rest of your life? Honestly!?!?!

That's got to be such a boring and mundane task. Unless you make well in excess of $100K, on 20K or less how are you ever going to be financially secure?

Just to follow up on my post above, I wanted to briefly address your question about the most financially rewarding path. Since your question was understandably quite general, here's the very general answer that many of us tend to give: in purely financial terms, your earning potential will be (a lot) higher in business rather than in law. Again, in purely financial terms, law tends to offer very comfortable but rarely outrageously attractive salaries. What law does offer, however, is something that very few disciplines can match: financial security. In general terms, your job and your income stream as a lawyer tends to be a lot more secure and tends to depend a lot less on the state of the economy than that of a business person.

In my practice area, for instance, I tend to be ridiculously busy when the economy is doing extremely poorly (so I get lots and lots of forbearance and restructuring requests, the "fallen angel" syndrome of former cash flow borrowers converting to asset based ones, etc...) or extremely well (new money loans are made, banks actively revise their loan documents to reflect the latest lending realities, new financial players enter the market and need regulatory oversight, developers look for new projects and engage in new ventures, etc...). When the economy is just coasting, my practice area tends to experience a significant slowdown. Quite a few other practice areas are actually quite similar in that respect.

P.S.
I am not sure that I understand the reasons the OP is getting so much red. Although I don't think that the OP is phrased in the most artful way, the general question that he is asking is actually a pretty interesting one and the answers can certainly benefit a lot of people out there.

P.P.S.
Wow, Stiggz, you really are as sad and bitter as your posts suggest that you are. Someone just brought to my attention that you not only strangely negged this post but also appear to have indiscriminately negged quite a few of my other posts throughout FW (here's one, and here's two).

Richfish-

In most avenues of finance, an MBA is going to put you at a hiring disadvantage during your early career years. You will be overqualified. Your best bet is get some experience under your belt and have your company cover the cost for the MBA. Why should you have to pay for it?

There are so many career avenues in Finance from an accountant to a bank manager. Then you have to decide if you want public or private in some avenues and what sector like manufacturing, bio-tech, IT, distribution. Where you live is also going to dictate what is available to you. The midwest is more manufacturing based where the east coast has bio-tech, funds companies and IT.

There are many CPA/attorneys where we current reside.

It depends on the market. Right now the finance market in the larger cities are starved for qualified candidates. This may not be the case when Richfish would hit the market. We all know the stories of the MBA waiters and parking valets.

ScootyPuffSr said: Borodeva said: ScootyPuffSr said: If you are even questioning yourself I would go with the MBA. It is a lot smaller time commitment (1-1.5 years?) versus law school (3 years). Also no offense to business majors but I believe it is a lot fewer hours of work and your getting/keeping a job is not dependent on passing a huge test at the end after you graduate.

1-year MBA??? I wouldn't recommend it.

Do yourself a favor and if you are considering an MBA, look into the highly-ranked schools in your area. A reputable full-time MBA will be a 2-year degree.

You are right....Northwestern Kellogg, Cornell, Michigan Ross, DePaul, USC, and UCLA are all horrible universities with terrible reputations.

When you have your Kellogg MBA people aren't going to care whether it was 18 months or 24 months, especially after your first job.


Hmmm... As a current MBA student from one of the school you stated. I believe most of the MBA programs are 2 years if not more. For part time its 2+ to 3 years.

BTW if your going to get a MBA at least get one from the top 25 like others have said otherwise you might be better off going into law. And most of the top MBA programs require at least 2 years of working experience.

And yes the brand name of your MBA DOES Matter... MBA from a state school vs one from IVY makes a BIG difference.

hope69 said: ScootyPuffSr said: Borodeva said: ScootyPuffSr said: If you are even questioning yourself I would go with the MBA. It is a lot smaller time commitment (1-1.5 years?) versus law school (3 years). Also no offense to business majors but I believe it is a lot fewer hours of work and your getting/keeping a job is not dependent on passing a huge test at the end after you graduate.

1-year MBA??? I wouldn't recommend it.

Do yourself a favor and if you are considering an MBA, look into the highly-ranked schools in your area. A reputable full-time MBA will be a 2-year degree.

You are right....Northwestern Kellogg, Cornell, Michigan Ross, DePaul, USC, and UCLA are all horrible universities with terrible reputations.

When you have your Kellogg MBA people aren't going to care whether it was 18 months or 24 months, especially after your first job.


Hmmm... As a current MBA student from one of the school you stated. I believe most of the MBA programs are 2 years if not more. For part time its 2+ to 3 years.

BTW if your going to get a MBA at least get one from the top 25 like others have said otherwise you might be better off going into law. And most of the top MBA programs require at least 2 years of working experience.

And yes the brand name of your MBA DOES Matter... MBA from a state school vs one from IVY makes a BIG difference.


Law is a lot more school snobby than Business will ever be. Outside of the top 10 law schools or so, most people are immediately shut out of many types of opportunities. There are 190(+/-) law schools in this country and most of the top firms will only look at students from the top 6-10 of them. Search for the story of a sad young man named Loyola 2L to confirm this.

hakujin said:   I"m not going to read this thread any further, and I'm pretty much done w/ you, but I'd like to say that not only is it not 'an easy path', it's an illogical one unless certain criteria are met due to cost, time, and the absurdity of your profession's rating system, as well as the median income and the likelihood of gainful employment.

If you'll kindly re-read that which I've written (doubtful you did one even once) and omit the parts where I called a spade a spade (as this upsets your ego a little), you may see past your tunnel vision.

For the record, when you suggest, 'I quite clearly know very little about' you sound glib, condescending, and and like an egoist at best, because it's quite clear I do, or we wouldn't be having this conversation ergo your rebuttal to most of my valid criticisms of Law school as to its career viability are strangely missing (hmmmm). If you spent half of your wasted time here on something other than discrediting the opposition's character, or card stacking, you may be worth listening to at this point.

I don't have disagreements with any posts as I haven't read them. To the extent that you would actually like to rebut my principal points against Law school at present, rather than focus on the semantics of what abbreviations stand for and the life cycle of a summer associate, please PM this as you're too little, too late, and I can't get back the time I spent talking to you on here. I wish you felt the same; logic and your purported pedigree to me via PM should virtually guarantee this, but alas, you do have a LOT of time on your hands as a lawyer. This is something else associates should know as well, they certainly won't have your free time, haha! But hopefully they'll have a job, where more and more law grads do not. No wonder w/ the job growth (or lackthereof). Fat cats keyboard commandos like you really need to GTFO, haha!

Cheers and pardon for any potential typos, I know how important that is to the overall context here, since it is so about 'who' says it and not 'what they say', in the little megalomaniac bubble you call home.

This whole 99% versus 1% thing is getting a little old. I am part of the 53% and I am getting a little tired a few folks in the 47% claiming to represent me and my interests when they cannot even occupy a job. Maybe you shouldn't post here unless you are willing to try and occupy a grad program for a little while.