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MizzouFan
- Thrifty Member
posted: Jul. 16, 2007 @ 9:37p
dolmar said:
That funny considering the US Dollar is currently at 26 year low against Britsh pound currently. And in 1986 US Dollar was less than 1:1 to Britsh Pound and back in 1950 US Dollar was 1.27 to 1 Britsh Pound. So how you figure the value of the US Dollar has been going down?
And you claim about gold is a joke. In 1978 Gold was as high $1026 but in 1986 gold hit a low of $238 an oz. If you factored in for inflation and you bought gold back in 1978 then you would have paid over $2K an oz in todays dollars. Btw gold trades in sync with the US Dollar. When the dollar get stronger gold drops in price and when the dollars get weaker gold goes up in price. This is a fact.
If you look at France, Spain, Germany, even Japan most other countries at 1X or another have devalued there currencies by changing the exchanges rates or issuing new currency except the US Dollar. Inflation has nothing to do with devaluing a countries currancy both are independant of each other while both have the same net result. Agentpt5 is not saying Gold is NOT subject to the markets like everything else. It is subject to mania and bubbles like other commodities, stocks, bonds, and other investment vehicles. What Agentpt5 is saying (if I may attempt to bridge the gap here) is that 1 oz of Gold in 1900 buys the same amount of goods and services as 1 oz of Gold today. In that respect, it has not devalued. The dollar, since 1913, has devalued by 95%. So, $1 in 1913 terms is only worth 5 cents today. That is a fact. So, yes, the dollar -- like every other fiat based currency -- is devalued. Now, have standards of living risen even as the dollar has devalued? Sure; but that is more due to advances in productivity than probably any other factor. Any fiat-based currency can be devalued by simply increasing the money supply (inflation). |
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kantscholar
- Senior Member
posted: Jul. 16, 2007 @ 10:44p
Saycanyouc, What you're looking for is an ETF like the UUP. However, that is very very thinly traded and I would avoid it. As stupid as it sounds, one thing you can do is *gasp* hold dollars! Part of the reason why US stocks have been ripping over the past two years, IMHO, is due to the decline of the dollar. That is, let's say as stock like Proctor and Gamble is trading at 50 dollars two years ago, and let's say in the past two years the dollar has declined by 20%. Excluding all other market factors, just on face that 1 share of P&G stock would now be worth 60 dollars--a sweet gain of 20%. I imagine if you start to see a dollar recovery, the UUP might get some more action or others might launch similar funds that are bullish on the dollar. As another poster mentioned, being long gold is short the dollar, and if you are short gold, then you are long the dollar. You could short the GLD--that's what some boys I know at Goldman Sachs have been doing for the past 6 months. Be careful no matter what you decide to do. Good luck. |
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lray
- Senior Member - 2K
posted: Jul. 16, 2007 @ 10:54p
We should go return to a precious metal backed currency system and just devalue all the currency to compensate. Just my opinion. You could earn $10k/year instead of $100k/year, but your car could cost $300. It's all relative and while we're at it, ditch the penny. It'd help fight counterfeiting too, especially if we do coins only (using the precious metal). |
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iSeller
- Ancient Member
posted: Jul. 16, 2007 @ 11:27p
Invest a minimal amount (0 down) in real estate in an non-overinflated market. Lock in a good interest rate and you'll do ok. |
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agentpt5
- Senior Member - 1K
posted: Jul. 17, 2007 @ 1:35a
kantscholar said: You could short the GLD--that's what some boys I know at Goldman Sachs have been doing for the past 6 months. Please follow these morons. I love people to bet against me and short GLD. Goldman, JPMorgan Stuck With Debt They Can't Sell to Investors By Caroline Salas and Miles Weiss July 17 (Bloomberg) -- Goldman Sachs Group Inc., JPMorgan Chase & Co. and the rest of Wall Street are stuck with at least $11 billion of loans and bonds they can't readily sell. The banks have had to dig into their own pockets to finance parts of at least five leveraged buyouts over the past month because of the worst bear market in high-yield debt in more than two years, data compiled by Bloomberg show. Bankers, who just a few months ago boasted that demand for high-yield assets was so great that they would have no problem raising debt for a $100 billion LBO, are now paying for their overconfidence. The cost of tying up their own capital may curb earnings and stem the flood of LBOs, which generated a record $8.4 billion in fees during the first half of 2007, according to Brad Hintz, the former chief financial officer at New York-based Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aserXf4f8u2M&refer=home
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kantscholar
- Senior Member
posted: Jul. 17, 2007 @ 12:43p
agentpt5 said:kantscholar said: You could short the GLD--that's what some boys I know at Goldman Sachs have been doing for the past 6 months.
Please follow these morons. I love people to bet against me and short GLD.
Goldman, JPMorgan Stuck With Debt They Can't Sell to Investors
By Caroline Salas and Miles Weiss
July 17 (Bloomberg) -- Goldman Sachs Group Inc., JPMorgan Chase & Co. and the rest of Wall Street are stuck with at least $11 billion of loans and bonds they can't readily sell. The comment about GS and JPM being stuck with bad loans/bonds is completely irrelevant to whether or not some other GS/JPM hedge fund's short gold call is a good one. GS has almost 1 trillion dollars under management in its investment management division, which makes 11 billion of these "not easily sold loans/bonds" a whopping 1% of their total assets. Anyway, my point is not to defend these investment banks, as the OP was asking about bullish dollar plays. But the arrogance of "bet against me and short GLD" is amusing. You, personally, have no control over the price of gold. The guys at Goldman, Bear, Morgan, etc., however, do. If I had money invested in gold (which I do not), I'd be monitoring the big boys very closely, especially since the short-term gold trade is primarily based on technicals.
Either way, the OP needs to do his or her own research and decide what course of action is best for him. Good luck. |
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tooshy
- Frivolous Member
posted: Jul. 17, 2007 @ 1:09p
*I* am brain dead lol...I've been a dollar bull for so long I forgot. Being 100% cash is a dollar bull play is it not? And hoping the US economy can stomach higher rates lol. I read recently there is strength through weakness...how appropriate. I've been so alarmed and concerned recently about the falling dollar is ironical, not funny. Furthermore, dolmar is right, the cooking of the books is not good. I am beginning to be doubtful that we'll ever receive what is rightfully due. On one hand saying no inflation keeps government payouts low and the market churning nicely, on the other hand, saying inflation expectation is on the high end enables the Feds to raise rates if they have to. Nice, they've successfully engineered playing both ends of the fiddle. And also why, I am beginning to doubt whether higher interest rates are in the cards. The economy is bigger than only USA and the finance system much more complicated than I can ever understand that what is logical to happen may not happen. Also the Feds know that managing expectations and cooking the books are key...with those two things they can engineer the markets and the inevitable never happens. Sigh I give up. |
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aquintago
- New Member
posted: Jul. 17, 2007 @ 1:20p
Paris Hilton is not stupid. Trust me. They give her LOOTCAKES to show up at clubs and parties for god's sake. That's ingenious. |
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aquintago
- New Member
posted: Jul. 17, 2007 @ 1:24p
Buy stock in US companies that earn a large chunk of their profits from overseas and report in USD. Examples include Caterpillar, McDonalds, etc. |
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ifyouhavetoask
- Senior Member - 1K
posted: Jul. 17, 2007 @ 1:29p
tooshy said: Also the Feds know that managing expectations and cooking the books are key...with those two things they can engineer the markets and the inevitable never happens. Sigh I give up. Never say never. The Fed can and will lose control of this mess. Printing money is a short term solution, but it cannot avoid the consequences of decades of poor economic choices. When? I do not know. However, the recent rocketship ride of the stock markets should give everyone concern. It stinks of desperation on the Fed's part. You can't listen or watch the mainstream news these days without hearing Soviet-style economic propaganda being reported by the talking heads. "Despite home prices falling for the first time since the 1930's, economists we talked to are optimistic about the economy rebounding by Christmas". 
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desiluvu
- Member
posted: Jul. 17, 2007 @ 1:38p
Caution: IF i am not mistaking if US dollar continues to fall down then it will hurt lot more to Japan, China & Korea. I think it will also bring their currency down. So do more research on this. Good luck |
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tooshy
- Frivolous Member
posted: Jul. 17, 2007 @ 1:46p
ifyouhavetoask said:tooshy said: Also the Feds know that managing expectations and cooking the books are key...with those two things they can engineer the markets and the inevitable never happens. Sigh I give up.
Never say never.
The Fed can and will lose control of this mess. Printing money is a short term solution, but it cannot avoid the consequences of decades of poor economic choices.
When? I do not know. However, the recent rocketship ride of the stock markets should give everyone concern. It stinks of desperation on the Fed's part.
You can't listen or watch the mainstream news these days without hearing Soviet-style economic propaganda being reported by the talking heads. "Despite home prices falling for the first time since the 1930's, economists we talked to are optimistic about the economy rebounding by Christmas". LOL...IYHTA, your posts are da bomb!!  I love it..."The Fed can and will lose control of this mess"   There are so many moving parts in this scheme that on one hand it makes it possible for the Feds to orchestrate and achieve magnified results, then on the other hand the Feds COULD very well lose control because of the size and complexity that is the New Finance Order. I'm just tired of the games that are played. Wish life was simple and straightforward...A--->B, B---->C, therefore, A--->C. There are other conspiracy theories I've been reading that seem as frightening, eg. not only is CPI cooked, how about our initial employment numbers filled with assumptions that can pad >20,000 to the total employment numbers easily. Do we know anymore what a good number is, ie. a number that is truly bullish? Or are these disguised bearish numbers. We are living in a new paradigm, maybe even the old Hoover jobs loss numbers will be nothing to worry about. I often believe we live in a capital vs labor world, so how could labor have that much of an impact. The forces of capital will find a way out of every limitation, cooking the books, yes, so is cheaper pools of labor, constant liquidity, etc. Go figure. sorry for the edits to fix grammar and pun |
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desiluvu
- Member
posted: Jul. 17, 2007 @ 2:10p
Hey Guys, i really love this topic because it has been hurting my pocket. So if we can talk more serious and also with more knowlege. ALl the analysts out their bring their analysis here in this topic and let us know what's short term future in 6 to 12 months. Should be buy indian currency for being indian or any other currency or gold etc? What is causing US dollar fallinig down? Is it in benifit of US to devalluate temporary so they can reduce their debit? What will drive back US higher in future (Only higher interest rate becuase Oil prices doesn't seem to be coming down) Reply with good points or other links or researches. Tahnk you for everybody's time All FW members this could be great money making investment if we follow right path and of course if it works that way. This is very volatile situation so be careful with investment. Problem is you can not jsut sit and not do any action. Becasue average indian like me just lost 20 % of their liquid money compare to last year because of us dollar falling down. Thank you |
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kamalktk
- Ancient Member
posted: Jul. 17, 2007 @ 2:18p
desiluvu said: What is causing US dollar fallinig down? ... Thank you The topic is "What is a good long term investment for a rising US dollar?" Also, you only lost 15%, presuming you held everything in dollars for the past year and are now converting to rupees instead of either repatriating periodically (in which case your loss would have been about 5% based on the 372 day average) or not converting at all. source |
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tooshy
- Frivolous Member
posted: Jul. 17, 2007 @ 2:44p
desiluvu said:Caution:
IF i am not mistaking if US dollar continues to fall down then it will hurt lot more to Japan, China & Korea. I think it will also bring their currency down. So do more research on this. Good luckBut isn't it all relative? For example with Japan, the dollar is currently very strong compared to the yen. Should there be a reversal and the yen gains strength, the dollar will fall with respect. And what may cause this reversal? The carry trade is risk averse, so whenever the US stock market rocks, the yen carry trade wobbles and the yen gets stronger, and when the yen gets stronger, the yen carry trade wobbles further. However, while it may not be the end to the entire carry trade business, it will certainly cause concern for our economy and further the subprime contagion, which is why I believe the Feds/our government could have a hand in smoothing out the statistics it bears. I just think when the carry trade unwinds Japan will coincidentally emerge out of it's shell (eg. partnerships with American companies (GE) to lend the leadership it needs). I'm silently hoping for a reemergence of Japan's dominance. |
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Potlickerttu
- Senior Member
posted: Jul. 17, 2007 @ 8:52p
Too much back and forth in this thread......If you want to Bet on the strengthing just buy RDPIX (Rising U.S. Dollar ProFunds) The question was not if they should go long on the dollar but how to do it. |
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MizzouFan
- Thrifty Member
posted: Jul. 18, 2007 @ 8:59a
Potlickerttu said:Too much back and forth in this thread......If you want to Bet on the strengthing just buy RDPIX (Rising U.S. Dollar ProFunds)
The question was not if they should go long on the dollar but how to do it. Agreed, we've gotten a bit off track. To the OP, for a rising dollar you can look at Everbank's Dollar Bull CD or you can even invest in something as common as stocks/bonds. Bonds will benefit quite a bit if you think interest rates are going down (bond prices are inversely related to interest rates) and nothing seems to shake the stock market right now. |
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tooshy
- Frivolous Member
posted: Jul. 18, 2007 @ 10:24a
Potlickerttu said:Too much back and forth in this thread......If you want to Bet on the strengthing just buy RDPIX (Rising U.S. Dollar ProFunds)
The question was not if they should go long on the dollar but how to do it.Therein lies the problem....I don't understand why OP would want to go long I guess....long against European currencies? Long against the yuan and yen? Has anything really changed macrospeaking that we should now think the worst is behind us? Depending on which side of the continent you're comparing with, there is much more pressure against the dollar than for it. As far as the effect of inflation on the dollar, I think there is much more upside in the pipelines. Hence why BB is playing both fiddles. When the yuan and yen appreciate, not if but when...2008?, inflation will really hit our shores worse than what we are currently experiencing with the dollar weakened against European currencies. That's another shoe to drop. Also cooking the books has a tradeoff...as much as it sours the dollar it is what is saving us. So it is not so much a detriment I would guess. |
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Kanosh
- Senior Member
posted: Jul. 18, 2007 @ 10:57a
Let me bring this conversation back to earth. The OP actually asks a very simple question. How to benefit from a rising dollar. The answer is also simple ... hold dollars, and dollar-denomiated assets and stocks of corporations doing business in the US. Fact is...if you are an American, chances are you already are paid in dollars and more likely than not, you already have a bank account or other investments in dollars. Congratulations! You've doing what it takes to benefit from a rising dollar. Yes, there are more "advanced" strategies that some have alluded to...OK if gambling/speculation is what you have in mind, but inappropriate if your goal is just to benefit generally from a rising dollar. Also please ignore the "goldbugs" and would-be monetary theorists here. This isn't the Monetary Theory forum. I actually happen to agree with some of the conclusions these clowns have made --- but not for the reasons they make them. |
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tooshy
- Frivolous Member
posted: Jul. 18, 2007 @ 11:14a
Kanosh said:Also please ignore the "goldbugs" and would-be monetary theorists here. This isn't the Monetary Theory forum. I actually happen to agree with some of the conclusions these clowns have made --- but not for the reasons they make them.Must be me...but I fail to understand how you can have an intelligent discussion about a LONG TERM investment without discussing the merits or reasoning. He's not talking about hedging foreign exposure or what happens when/if/should the Feds raise rates. What gets me is how do you answer when you don't understand the merits of the question. Also, why is every flag waving Uncle Sam avatar so quick to shame others. Pure arrogance. |
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