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opmnxtc
- Thrifty Member
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posted: Jul. 24, 2007 @ 9:45a
that link is outdated with almost no activity for a year. |
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ThornnSpear
- Thrifty Member
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posted: Jul. 24, 2007 @ 9:48a
opmnxtc said:that link is outdated with almost no activity for a year. Most of the info is old, but still good. I'm not suggesting anyone post to it, but use it as a reference for our discussion here. As some people already posted, Business credit has not been explored much here on FW Finance and many people are eager to take their AORs to that level. I'm just sharing my source of info, which as worked well for me. |
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ThornnSpear
- Thrifty Member
rated:
posted: Jul. 24, 2007 @ 9:53a
411 listing is important for getting some business credit... so if you have a registered business name, try this: http://www.gaebler.com/How-to-Register-a-Business-with-411-Directory-Assistance.htm First, go to the List Yourself website. This site bills itself as "The Listing Service for the Unlisted" and while it appears to be a very simple site, many small business owners have told us that it has worked for them. However, some have not been successful with this service and others have had to enter their information multiple times before it worked. Still, it's a free service so it's worth a try.
Second, go to SuperPages.com and register your business for a free listing. You will find the "FREE Listing" link on the left nav on the home page.
Third, you can contact Verizon Wireless at 1-800 722-0577 and ask for a "foreign listing" - you don't actually have to have a Verizon number to get into their wireless 411 directory. There is a one-time $9 fee and a $1.12 monthly charge.
Fourth, you can call your local 411, ask for your listing and then when you are told that there is no such business listing, tell them you are the owner of the business and ask them how to get listed. In the worst case, you can a new number with your local phone company and have it forward to your other numbers. It costs money but it might be worth it.
411 information tends to propagate so getting into one 411 directory may be sufficient. Have a 411 listing and being in the various online 411 directories (e.g. whitepages.com) doesn't ensure that you will be in the printed White Listings directory. For that, you will need to call the company that puts out the White Pages.
As you move forward to get a business number listed in the White Pages and 411 Directory Assistance, be careful what you wish for. Once you do get listed, you'll tend to get a lot of inquiry calls from people trying to sell you stuff.
Hopefully, the number of calls from prospective customers will far outweigh the calls from telemarketers. But, importantly, if you want to build up your business credit profile, getting listed is an absolute necessity. I signed up for Skype in and out, and registered with List Yourself... previously I just got an 800 through ATT for about $18 a month and had it forward to my cell phone. The new way is cheaper, if List Yourself actually works. You can enter any name as the business name, so you could probably list a business with your own name. |
Message edited by: ThornnSpear on 2007-07-24 10:49:46 CDT
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ChumChurum
- Senior Member
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posted: Jul. 24, 2007 @ 11:01a
ThornnSpear said:411 listing is important for getting some business credit... so if you have a registered business name, try this: http://www.gaebler.com/How-to-Register-a-Business-with-411-Directory-Assistance.htm First, go to the List Yourself website. This site bills itself as "The Listing Service for the Unlisted" and while it appears to be a very simple site, many small business owners have told us that it has worked for them. However, some have not been successful with this service and others have had to enter their information multiple times before it worked. Still, it's a free service so it's worth a try. Second, go to SuperPages.com and register your business for a free listing. You will find the "FREE Listing" link on the left nav on the home page. Third, you can contact Verizon Wireless at 1-800 722-0577 and ask for a "foreign listing" - you don't actually have to have a Verizon number to get into their wireless 411 directory. There is a one-time $9 fee and a $1.12 monthly charge. Fourth, you can call your local 411, ask for your listing and then when you are told that there is no such business listing, tell them you are the owner of the business and ask them how to get listed. In the worst case, you can a new number with your local phone company and have it forward to your other numbers. It costs money but it might be worth it. 411 information tends to propagate so getting into one 411 directory may be sufficient. Have a 411 listing and being in the various online 411 directories (e.g. whitepages.com) doesn't ensure that you will be in the printed White Listings directory. For that, you will need to call the company that puts out the White Pages. As you move forward to get a business number listed in the White Pages and 411 Directory Assistance, be careful what you wish for. Once you do get listed, you'll tend to get a lot of inquiry calls from people trying to sell you stuff. Hopefully, the number of calls from prospective customers will far outweigh the calls from telemarketers. But, importantly, if you want to build up your business credit profile, getting listed is an absolute necessity. I signed up for Skype in and out, and registered with List Yourself... previously I just got an 800 through ATT for about $18 a month and had it forward to my cell phone. The new way is cheaper, if List Yourself actually works. You can enter any name as the business name, so you could probably list a business with your own name. Great ideas, thanks! |
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ChumChurum
- Senior Member
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posted: Jul. 24, 2007 @ 11:03a
ThornnSpear said:This is where I got my infor to get started as far as business cards go... might be useful to others here on FW finance as we turn to business credit: http://consumers.creditnet.com/Discussions/credit-talk/t-business-credit-the-backdoor-appro-16341.html#post111392
If you are doing AORs and investing, this might give you a new line... that "investment" activity might be enough for you to form an LLC or corp doing AORs as a business, and perhaps more than doubling the money you get to play with! In that scenario, your AOR interest becomes earned income and you might very well need to pay self-employment tax at 15%. I know if you can double, that is still better - but something to consider if you can get high credit lines while still not claiming that your business is making interest from 0% deals. |
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MikeR397
- Senior Member - 2K
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posted: Jul. 24, 2007 @ 11:08a
Another issue I want to add to the OP is how to handle the taxes resulting from profits on a business credit card AoR. I have read several different viewpoints and want to see if we can get to a consensus. Below is my current plan of action/theory when it comes to sole proprietorship credit card interest (please advise me with your viewpoints): 1) The credit cards are applied for as a sole proprietorship. 2) The BT money is deposited into a personal savings account. All interest is earned in a personal savings account and there are no earnings whatsoever in any business account. 3) You get a 1099 from the personal savings account at the end of the year showing all interest you have earned. 4) You simply include this income in your own personal tax filing and don't need to file any sort of business tax return as it is a sole proprietorship, and second, the interest was earned on the personal side of things with only the loan originating from this business side. This is my ideal way to handle the tax situation. I realize I may be oversimplifying it, and if so, I want to hear your inputs. This info will be very helpful as an addition to this thead. Thanks to those who contribute. |
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ThornnSpear
- Thrifty Member
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posted: Jul. 24, 2007 @ 11:22a
If you are a sole Prop, you can still use the 411 listing method, to enhance your business credit chances, but tax points are moot... everything is done under your SSN. I *think* for LLC and S Corps it is similar. C Corps, yes, you have to take dividends or pay payroll-related taxes to take money out of the accounts. |
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lrothkcsa
- Senior Member - 1K
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posted: Jul. 24, 2007 @ 1:52p
I wish there was a way to vote for what becomes a sticky, rather than "just" green. Mike, this is tremendously helpful and a great resource. Had it not been for your commentary, I'd have missed out on at least 20k from my wife-o-rama (just got approved for BofA). |
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theman2
- Senior Member - 3K
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posted: Jul. 24, 2007 @ 2:17p
I took advantage of this on my last AOR, getting a couple 0% Citi Business cards and getting them to cut me checks. Even though I registered as a Sole Prop, they issued the checks under my 'business name' which was Lastname Ent.. I was a little concerned but I was able to deposit these into my Wamu checking account through the ATM machine. YMMV, obviously. Ahhh. 0% loans that do not show up on my credit report! Remember, utilization % doesn't really matter as it never hits your credit report. |
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ThornnSpear
- Thrifty Member
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posted: Jul. 24, 2007 @ 5:22p
So far Cap One has given me a credit card with 0% for a year. They apparently don't report to anyone unless you are delinquent so also good for reporting purposes. They are also relatively easy to get credit with. |
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ChumChurum
- Senior Member
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posted: Jul. 24, 2007 @ 6:06p
lrothkcsa said:I wish there was a way to vote for what becomes a sticky, rather than "just" green. Mike, this is tremendously helpful and a great resource. Had it not been for your commentary, I'd have missed out on at least 20k from my wife-o-rama (just got approved for BofA). I can share that sentiment - it was not obvious in the beginning why one should apply for business credit. The info is scattered all over the place. Like Mike said, EVEN if some issuers might have rules, like min 2 years in biz, it does not hurt to apply. Has anyone tried the following strategy: 1. AOR phase 1: bus-app-o-rama: apply, receive, transfer, 2. AOR phase 2: bump-o-rama: get rid of the EQ / TU inqs, 3. AOR phase 3: personal-app-o-rama. I know you can easily combine 1 and 2, but imagine how many more business APPs you can apply for IF the personal APPS are not contributing inquiries. |
Message edited by: ChumChurum on 2007-07-24 18:08:33 CDT
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gandhis
- Senior Member
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posted: Jul. 24, 2007 @ 6:37p
ThornnSpear said: If you are doing AORs and investing, this might give you a new line... that "investment" activity might be enough for you to form an LLC or corp doing AORs as a business, and perhaps more than doubling the money you get to play with! Say you form an S corp, do an AOR, open a brokerage account in your company's name, do your homework /analysis and invest the BT money with the full intention of paying the AOR money back. But say, your investments turn sour and you can not pay the BT money back. In this case, as a C corp, are your own personal assets and your own credit still shielded? (I am assuming no fraud is intended and this is a good faith investment gone wrong) |
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Marquess
- Cranky Member
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posted: Jul. 24, 2007 @ 6:42p
gandhis said:ThornnSpear said: If you are doing AORs and investing, this might give you a new line... that "investment" activity might be enough for you to form an LLC or corp doing AORs as a business, and perhaps more than doubling the money you get to play with!
Say you form an S corp, do an AOR, open a brokerage account in your company's name, do your homework /analysis and invest the BT money with the full intention of paying the AOR money back.
But say, your investments turn sour and you can not pay the BT money back.
In this case, as a C corp, are your own personal assets and your own credit still shielded?
(I am assuming no fraud is intended and this is a good faith investment gone wrong) 99% will require a personal guarantee so you would still be personally on the hook. |
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ThornnSpear
- Thrifty Member
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posted: Jul. 24, 2007 @ 6:51p
No matter what the structure, almost every credit card requires you to sign a personal guarantee. The only ones you might be able to not give a PG would be store cards which are pretty useless for AORs. For those of you concerned about depositing sole proprietorship checks into your personal checking account: 1) File for a DBA or Fictious Name in your state... in NJ its ~$50 2) Open a free business checking account locally 3) Get a separate business savings or brokerage account. For the small players, Cap One has a Money Market fund that pays 4.5%, its higher if you are a costco executive member. ING just rolled out their business accounts (http://business.ingdirect.com/). NB: ING allows ACH transfers, Cap one makes you deal with checks and the USPS. Just speaking from my experience, AOR vets might be able to steer you to higher yields. |
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gandhis
- Senior Member
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posted: Jul. 24, 2007 @ 7:05p
Marquess said:gandhis said:ThornnSpear said: If you are doing AORs and investing, this might give you a new line... that "investment" activity might be enough for you to form an LLC or corp doing AORs as a business, and perhaps more than doubling the money you get to play with! Say you form an S corp, do an AOR, open a brokerage account in your company's name, do your homework /analysis and invest the BT money with the full intention of paying the AOR money back. But say, your investments turn sour and you can not pay the BT money back. In this case, as a C corp, are your own personal assets and your own credit still shielded? (I am assuming no fraud is intended and this is a good faith investment gone wrong) 99% will require a personal guarantee so you would still be personally on the hook. Thank you ! I knew credit card companies are not stupid so there had to be a catch; just could not figure out where. |
Message edited by: gandhis on 2007-07-24 19:05:52 CDT
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MikeR397
- Senior Member - 2K
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posted: Jul. 24, 2007 @ 7:19p
ThornnSpear said:No matter what the structure, almost every credit card requires you to sign a personal guarantee. The only ones you might be able to not give a PG would be store cards which are pretty useless for AORs.
For those of you concerned about depositing sole proprietorship checks into your personal checking account:
1) File for a DBA or Fictious Name in your state... in NJ its ~$50 2) Open a free business checking account locally 3) Get a separate business savings or brokerage account. For the small players, Cap One has a Money Market fund that pays 4.5%, its higher if you are a costco executive member. ING just rolled out their business accounts (http://business.ingdirect.com/). NB: ING allows ACH transfers, Cap one makes you deal with checks and the USPS.
Just speaking from my experience, AOR vets might be able to steer you to higher yields.Why even mess with getting a business checking or savings? I have never had any problem depositing business credit card balance transfers into my personal checking account. So why the extra effort and complication? Not to mention by doing this, then you do have business profits and would possibly complicate tax filing. |
Message edited by: MikeR397 on 2007-07-24 19:21:31 CDT
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ThornnSpear
- Thrifty Member
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posted: Jul. 24, 2007 @ 7:39p
MikeR397 said:ThornnSpear said:...For those of you concerned about depositing sole proprietorship checks into your personal checking account...
Why even mess with getting a business checking or savings? I have never had any problem depositing business credit card balance transfers into my personal checking account. So why the extra effort and complication? Not to mention by doing this, then you do have business profits and would possibly complicate tax filing. I said for those who are concerned about doing so, not everyone. It's 1099 vs Schedule C income, not like there's additional filings. If your bank shoots you down for "Lastname Enterprises" checks then it's not too difficult to open the second account. However, since everything is under your SSN it'd probably be all 1099 forms anyway (investment income) not Schedule C business income. The difference likely comes into play if you want to deduct business expenses from the investment income (schedule C) or not (maybe just 1099). My business is not primarily AOR investments, and is C Corp, so I've long moved past Sole Prop. To each his own, YMMV, IANAL, IANACPA, and all that... |
Message edited by: ThornnSpear on 2007-07-24 19:59:52 CDT
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sph7
- Member
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posted: Jul. 27, 2007 @ 8:36a
theman2 said:I took advantage of this on my last AOR, getting a couple 0% Citi Business cards and getting them to cut me checks.
Even though I registered as a Sole Prop, they issued the checks under my 'business name' which was Lastname Ent.. I was a little concerned but I was able to deposit these into my Wamu checking account through the ATM machine. YMMV, obviously.
Ahhh. 0% loans that do not show up on my credit report! Remember, utilization % doesn't really matter as it never hits your credit report. I took advantage of 0% deal on my Citi Professional Card, but the balance on the card shows up on my credit reports. Just be aware! |
Message edited by: sph7 on 2007-07-27 08:38:07 CDT
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djspray
- Addicted Member
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posted: Jul. 27, 2007 @ 8:43a
Thanks for the alert on Citi Prof. I think it's better to do BT on this CitiBusiness offer than the Professional in that case. |
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