Juniper cancelled my Travelocity card ($25K) the day after opening it. Too many "products". Two airline cards and my brand new National Parks card. Oh well, it was a little too good to be true. Spoke to the CSR to consolidate my lines to the parks card, he said their computer system was giving out too much credit last week and they are encouraging people with closed lines to reapply. Maybe, but now I have an awful lot of inquiries
FWIW the "Juniper is giving out huge credit lines" thread seems to have disappeared. Mods must have stock in Barclay's
devildoc said: Juniper cancelled my Travelocity card ($25K) the day after opening it. Too many "products". Two airline cards and my brand new National Parks card. Oh well, it was a little too good to be true. Spoke to the CSR to consolidate my lines to the parks card, he said their computer system was giving out too much credit last week and they are encouraging people with closed lines to reapply. Maybe, but now I have an awful lot of inquiries
FWIW the "Juniper is giving out huge credit lines" thread seems to have disappeared. Mods must have stock in Barclay's Bummer on the Travelocity card. Will you ask to have the inquiry removed from your bureau? new thread discussion
Some updates: Most banks have given a decision, see the Quick summary. I am still waiting for BofA to decide. The automated phone system for Chase reports 2 of 4 cards approved, but I can't tell which 2 until the cards arrive. $15,000 CL each FWIW. My best experience so far was UMB. Decent CL, and they have a cash or gift card reward system that includes BT, so you get an additional 1%. State Farm -- who does get a card from them?
BofA still hasn't decided according to the website, but phone calls to CSR confirms a $15,000 CL. Now to get the card, consolidate and transfer a large pile of money.
Chase biz allowed me to reallocate to $160K CL, BT check for $159.5 Chase fraud dept has called at least 4 times so far, and that's before any checks
Citi biz took 3 calls to reallocate personal to biz, the first 2 said "not possible" the 3rd said "how much and from where". Still pending approval to $78K, will request a check ASAP BoA biz was approved, consolidated to $25K but the BT is uncapped. But the mailman brought BT checks with $99 cap today! AMEX surprised me and allowed me to reallocate from biz to personal, bringing my original $2K limit to $86K.
After some consolidations and if BoA Citi and a few small banks work out, I will be close to my household goal of $1MM (the wife has about $300K), but I think I'll fall a little short this round.
see QS for some details.
DjPiLL
Senior Member - 2K
posted: Oct. 3, 2007 @ 2:13p
Nice job. You must be spooking the hell out of Chase with that type of credit line.
It's all just about wrapped up now, all the apps, all the fraud dept. calls, all the BT laundering. Some checks are still clearing, but other than that I'm done with part one.
Quick summary has details, but the Highlights are: Loads of approvals, moderate new credit, lots of consolidations. 0% BT total of just under $3/4MM with $200K for 6 months, the rest for a year. With the wife's BTs our househould total is just over $1MM, so I hit my goal. I went over 89% on BoA to get there, but all others are below.
With paying off the HELOC and a bunch of HYS, my take for this AOR should be about $34,000. Minus fees and taxes of course.
I've learned a few things that may help others: 1 - CRAs can be updated within days for free. Pay off the balances, dispute the report with each CRA and voila. Experian requires a paid in full in order to dispute, while the others allow you to just dispute the balance as different. 2 - If your address has variations (city or street name) make sure the CRAs all have the same details and your applications match. Mine didn't and I lost at least 2 cards and had some minor hassles with others. 3 - Closing several unused accounts with BoA and Chase prior to this AOR may have helped get all 3 cards from each lender. 4 - Some smaller banks I liked were Wachovia and RBS for sending checks, UMB for giving me points for BT that amount to 1% back. 5 - Some smaller bankd I didn't like were Commerce (bait and switch on the 0% offer), Wells Fargo (in branch only, 0% not guaranteed), WaMU, PNC (crappy credit line), USBank (no consolidation) 6 - I have learned to love biz credit. Chase and citi were happy to move personal lines to biz for BT, AMEX allowed me to move biz credit to personal for BT.
Although I used a lot of small banks, my payoff was just not worth it. Between Chase BoA Citi and AMEX I got $525K Juniper was worth it for $38K mostly because the checks are easy. Among 9 other banks, the total was under $100K. Next time just the big dogs.
Part two, which starts soon, will be the adverse action part of this thread. I'm sure to get blasted since I'll have something like 70% personal util (or 50% if my empty HELOC counts)
PorStaker said: What is the easiest way to dispute? DO I do it through TrueCredit or is there an online form I can fill out, phone number, or must it be snail mail? They all have online disputes
markkundinger
Senior Member - 2K
posted: Oct. 15, 2007 @ 9:18p
Well, it looks like you rubbed up against Chase and BofA's credit ceilings, but still got a net increase from the AOR. Nice.
Did anything take extra work? I'm thinking specifically one getting one Chase card's CL up to $160k (and I'm not sure what happened on the BofA side)
markkundinger said: Well, it looks like you rubbed up against Chase and BofA's credit ceilings, but still got a net increase from the AOR. Nice.
Did anything take extra work? I'm thinking specifically one getting one Chase card's CL up to $160k (and I'm not sure what happened on the BofA side)
Between biz and personal Chase gave me an additional $25K. BoA gave me $30K on top of what I had (so after consolidation I have one $25K biz and one $167K personal) But both Chase and BoA took forever (2 weeks) to approve the new cards, Chase called 4 times and wrote 3 letters requesting information confirmation. I'm still waiting for final approval on my British Air card (no BT but I love "free" lie-flat seats to Europe). BoA called twice to confirm info for personal and for biz. Once the cards were approved, consolidation took no time. Chase let me pull 100K from personal and 50K from my old United biz card to the new card and the BT check came with the card. BoA let me pull together all my personal lines and ACH the $$ to my checking account (2 different accounts since their limit is $99K per transfer). Moderate hassles, but big payoff -- Over $350K between the two. Some of the smaller banks called to confirm info also but only once each.
markkundinger
Senior Member - 2K
posted: Oct. 16, 2007 @ 2:56a
Was any of the additional info from BofA or Chase to verify assets or income? Or just junk about your identity and address?
markkundinger said: Was any of the additional info from BofA or Chase to verify assets or income? Or just junk about your identity and address? Just id/address. No income verification.
USBank did finally agree to consolidate CLs. Had to go through a manager because it's over $15K. $15,500 BT to keep it under 89%. BofA Biz sent me 0% checks with $99 cap, but then charged me an uncapped fee and then an overlimit fee. Called the CSR (BoA biz phone line hold times are horrible), faxed in the T&Cs from the checks, called back and they said they'll adjust the fees. Website still shows full 3% fee. We'll see. AMEX just upped my CL by 10% on my daily use starwood card without a CLI request. Makes no sense, but thanks AMEX.
TrueCredit and Credisecure can't seem to access my files (CRA not responding error) so no news on FAKOs. Not sure what that's about, I'll have to call I guess.
leonardo1
Senior Member
posted: Oct. 19, 2007 @ 8:17a
great work doc. you seem to have no fear of gigantic lines / BT's. 160k with chase ... 167k with BOA ... wow. keep the updates / info coming please
DD - I noticed your prognostication of adverse action a couple of posts up. Just as a reference point, I am close to 100% utilization as well on my personal lines after reallocating most of my personal CL to business CL (where I am at 99%). It's been 2.5 months since my A-O-R. My highest personal utilization is with BoA (like you) and Discover. I did get a letter from BoA that they are jacking up my rates, though my 0% is intact. I have not experienced any other adverse action other than an Am.Ex FR (my fault for being aggressive on CLI), which I survived and came out with a $24K CLI.
I hope your experience is similar (sans the Am.Ex FR).
Congrats devildoc! Your success continues to impress. As you know, I prefer to see most folks take a less aggressive posture, especially in this kind of credit/economic environment. But you're ready for some adverse action at some point, and are willing to accept the consequences of same. Given that, more power to you, and we all appreciate your sharing such a useful "bleeding edge" data point.
One specific question: I gather your $160K Chase line was a business card, and involved consolidation from personal to business, but not the reverse?
I'm especially interested in whether or not anyone has managed to move chase business CLs to chase personal. I'd like to get a chunk transferred business-to-personal, but doubt whether they'll to this.
TIA for any clarification, and good luck going forward. My any adverse action coming your way be mild.
Thanks Dave My Chase consolidation was from personal to biz, so I can't help you there. But I did manage to get AMEX to move $40K from biz to personal, although other people I know have been told no by AMEX in the past.
I've never seen problems reallocating either way with AMEX...indeed one can typically to it instantly, online (with all products other than the BLOC, anyway). Chase, however, is another matter.
pyro123
Senior Member
posted: Nov. 1, 2007 @ 11:53a
I understand you allocated money from your personal cards to your business card. But how much business income you reported to get additional business cards, e.g. NatCity Biz $49K, Citi Biz $15k, Chase Biz $25K, Pretty good. I didnt get a high CL, because I reported only $8000 new biz income. Maybe if I lie, will they ask for biz income verification.
Don't lie I reported 30K. But the big new line from Nat city seemed to be more about my personal credit score than the income. The rep who called was pretty clear about that.
Well, I screwed up. I had some unused credit lines with AMEX, and decided to transfer the credit to my In:LA card so I could BT some more (13K). Sent it online to BoA to launder into my checking. So far so good. Then I called to ask AMEX for the exact date that the 0% offer ended. That's when I realized the 13K was NOT 0% but 16%. (I know I should have called BEFORE the BT, but I was online, it looked easy ...) So now I have 75K at 0% and 13K at 16%, which if my math is correct is somewhat of a wash since I'm getting 5% in HYS (yes, I'm ignoring taxes). So I paid the whole damm thing off. I lost out on a significant (~$1,500) chunk of potential interest and I'm kicking myself. At least I caught it 5 days after the poorly planned BT, so I didn't lose any real $$, just potential $$.
What does the FWF world think is the next best move? 1 - nothing, eat crow, wipe the egg off my face etc. 2 - apply for a new In:Chicago card now, move the credit over and do it right this time. 3 - wait for March when about $130K 0% money comes due and apply for the IN:Chi then.
I have bumped all my inqs off TU and EQ already.
markkundinger
Senior Member - 2K
posted: Nov. 30, 2007 @ 7:25a
doc, you were already floating 0% on the IN card, right? So the interest rate just kicked in because you were past the initial promo period for 0%?
That's frustrating. But paying off the entire balance (including 0%) was probably the best play, since otherwise you'd just be paying taxes for no good reason.
Using a second IN card to BT your expiring 6mo BTs seems like it might be a good idea. Then everything will come due at the same time as your 12mo BTs.
Most everything is in coast mode now, B* is done, payments automated, $$ rolling in from HYS and some more profitable ventures. Only a couple of issues
AMEX did an F/R when I called them about the BT screwup above. They must have had me flagged, 'cause I went straight to F/R when I called to talk to a CSR. He asked me a few questions, put me on hold a few times, came back and said "no problem, let me get you a CSR to answer your original question"
Chase just sent me a letter saying I was not entitled to the 20K British Airways miles since I already got one bonus last year. I suppose it's only a matter of time before they debit my BA account. AFAIK this is new for Chase/BA. Flyertalk has long known of the Chase/United churning problems, but not Chase/BA
Cardselection came through with all $230 ($25 I had to email them to verify a card was approved)
BoA - I had to call Schwab to get them to reaalocate my credit into the big new 0% deal, total CL $171,100
All balances reporting (including the AMEX which is paid off now): FAKOs 707, 666, 743, can't b* the EX
The adverse action has finally started, albeit gently. Juniper dropped my CL to $350 above my balance (putting me at 99% util) claiming: "Growth rate of overall debt is too high Too many accounts opened in the past 6 months" and citing TU as their source
so now the question is: Do I pay it down to 89% and see if that gets them off my back, or ignore it and see if they'll just keep dropping my CL as I make minimum payments.
Overall personal util is now at 51% (or 34% if you count my HELOC)
devildoc said: The adverse action has finally started, albeit gently. Juniper dropped my CL to $350 above my balance (putting me at 99% util) claiming: "Growth rate of overall debt is too high Too many accounts opened in the past 6 months" and citing TU as their source
so now the question is: Do I pay it down to 89% and see if that gets them off my back, or ignore it and see if they'll just keep dropping my CL as I make minimum payments.
Overall personal util is now at 51% (or 34% if you count my HELOC)
Wow, didnt know this was possible. Wont this hurt your credit score A LOT? I hate how they simply do this so you will pay off the balance and go away, what a scary practice. It is close to a bait and switch program if you think about it, they reel you in with the 0% offer, then make it so bad that you have to pay it all off immediatly, or if you actually had the debt, take a hit on your credit score because they offered up something they want out of now.
I say stick with it, pay minimum payments and let it hit the file. SInce you just did your AOR you should be fine in a year. BUT do not listen to my opinion purely as I do not plan on needing my credit file for another 2 years, when I will start looking to buy houses, and do not mind over 90% util on my cards if a CC co. does this to me in the future. I am not sure how long it takes to repair the damage of this sort, but would like to hear from someone with experience how long it seems to take.
Quick question Devil doc, when you BT the balances did you do any of it to your debit card? How did you handle the ones that needed a CC to pay directly?
Chase just did the same thing with me (CL cut by $13K to just $300 above the current balance = 99+% utilization on the card) ... and I started to fully appreciate the questions such action poses. My guess is that they want either push you to really pay down the balance or make this card glow on you credit report like a pound of radioactive plutonium 210.
Paying down the balance would be voluntarily reducing the scope of you AOR, but having a card at 99% utilization may trigger similar actions from other issuers. My take is that even if other issuers start cutting CLs one would probably end-up with a larger overall credit after AOR than before. However, if the AA gets as bad as closing then all bets are off ... Another consideration is that Chase (not sure about Juniper) has been reported to cut people's CLs more than once (2-3 times, with the last cut being done [sometimes] after the entire balance is paid off), but it's not like they'll be trimming your CL every month. So, if I were you I'd probably pay the card down to 89% and see if another CL reduction (on this same card) follows soon.
In my own case case I decided not to worry about utilization, as I'm only a month away from having to pay the entire balance back anyway (damn, I was almost coming out clean!).
markkundinger
Senior Member - 2K
posted: Jan. 17, 2008 @ 8:36a
Doc, you've got two things to juggle with Juny,
1) If you pay down more of the balance, it might just give them more available credit to reduce from you again.
2) If this action on this one card made your overall profile fall past a mysterious threshold of suckiness, you might get AA from other lenders.
I'd suspect 1 is more likely, so I'd just keep paying down Juny at the same rate you were before.
brushwood
Greedy Member
posted: Jan. 17, 2008 @ 8:41a
PorStaker said: Wow, didnt know this was possible. Wont this hurt your credit score A LOT? I hate how they simply do this so you will pay off the balance and go away, what a scary practice. It is close to a bait and switch program if you think about it, they reel you in with the 0% offer, then make it so bad that you have to pay it all off immediatly, or if you actually had the debt, take a hit on your credit score because they offered up something they want out of now.
I think the impact to your credit score is more of a byproduct of what they are doing. We aren't really the average credit users, so our usage is not typical. The reason they reduce the credit limit is because they assume you are deeply in debt and they don't want you to be able to rack up even more debt that you will then default on. I think that is their real concern here. Of course, that does not apply to us (unless you are buying mortgage REITs or trying to put together a LBO with other FWFers) but that is how it looks from the issuers perspective.
PorStaker said: Quick question Devil doc, when you BT the balances did you do any of it to your debit card? How did you handle the ones that needed a CC to pay directly? I never used a debit card. I usually "launder" through my BOA card that has a no fee BT right into my checking.
win333
Senior Member - 2K
posted: Jan. 17, 2008 @ 11:36a
brushwood I think the impact to your credit score is more of a byproduct of what they are doing. We aren't really the average credit users, so our usage is not typical. The reason they reduce the credit limit is because they assume you are deeply in debt and they don't want you to be able to rack up even more debt that you will then default on. I think that is their real concern here. Of course, that does not apply to us (unless you are buying mortgage REITs or trying to put together a LBO with other FWFers) but that is how it looks from the issuers perspective.[/Q said:
Hey, I felt that all the way over here.
I've always BTed the entire line -500, why don't you dispute the balance and then you can have an answer within a few days. The answer being, how bad will the score drop.
It really sucks that they get to do this.
BRUSHWOOD, Maybe if we could earn more than 1% or 2% over inflation we wouldn't have to trash our scores by using as much of our credit as possible. Doing a LBO today wouldn't be good, but soon there will be a chance of a life time. But ya I know, you won't be there to profit from it.
This question doesn't need an answer from you and I don't want to trash the OPs thread, but what will you do when your CDs are yielding 2% really soon.
I guess AOR will be dead 200,000 @ 2% = 4,000.00 not even worth the hassle.
If you feel you need to answer take it to my thread.
lhendricks92
Senior Member - 1K
posted: Jan. 17, 2008 @ 12:24p
juniper will keep cutting your lines if you keep reducing the balance.
ahself
Senior Member
posted: Jan. 17, 2008 @ 12:52p
devildoc said: The adverse action has finally started, albeit gently. Juniper dropped my CL to $350 above my balance (putting me at 99% util) claiming: "Growth rate of overall debt is too high Too many accounts opened in the past 6 months" and citing TU as their source
so now the question is: Do I pay it down to 89% and see if that gets them off my back, or ignore it and see if they'll just keep dropping my CL as I make minimum payments.
Overall personal util is now at 51% (or 34% if you count my HELOC)
Juniper did this to me too...also citing TU as their source. I just called them up and talked to someone in their Portfolio Credit department. The CSR explained what the letter I got stated (pretty much what they claimed for you). I asked him if proving I could pay my CC balances with cash on hand would work and he said yes. So, I just faxed him a copy of my savings account balance and my original credit line was restored pretty soon afterwards.
lhendricks92 said: juniper will keep cutting your lines if you keep reducing the balance.
Did you actually do this, or are you guessing?
I had an issue with them on my last round of BTs a year ago -- I was at 98%, got nervous and paid it down to 89% and THEN they cut my CL. I made only routine (slightly above min) payments afterwards and they did not re-reduce my CL.
ahself said: devildoc said: The adverse action has finally started, albeit gently. Juniper dropped my CL to $350 above my balance (putting me at 99% util) claiming: "Growth rate of overall debt is too high Too many accounts opened in the past 6 months" and citing TU as their source
so now the question is: Do I pay it down to 89% and see if that gets them off my back, or ignore it and see if they'll just keep dropping my CL as I make minimum payments.
Overall personal util is now at 51% (or 34% if you count my HELOC)
Juniper did this to me too...also citing TU as their source. I just called them up and talked to someone in their Portfolio Credit department. The CSR explained what the letter I got stated (pretty much what they claimed for you). I asked him if proving I could pay my CC balances with cash on hand would work and he said yes. So, I just faxed him a copy of my savings account balance and my original credit line was restored pretty soon afterwards.
Great idea. I'll try that as well
lhendricks92
Senior Member - 1K
posted: Jan. 17, 2008 @ 3:26p
devildoc said: lhendricks92 said: juniper will keep cutting your lines if you keep reducing the balance.
Did you actually do this, or are you guessing?
I had an issue with them on my last round of BTs a year ago -- I was at 98%, got nervous and paid it down to 89% and THEN they cut my CL. I made only routine (slightly above min) payments afterwards and they did not re-reduce my CL.
they cut my personal line and my wife's person line 3 times as I tried to pay the balance down to 89%. Happened about a year ago. regardless, i suggest moving all of your juniper BT investing activities to the BankAtlantic biz card.
lhendricks92 said: they cut my personal line and my wife's person line 3 times as I tried to pay the balance down to 89%. Happened about a year ago. regardless, i suggest moving all of your juniper BT investing activities to the BankAtlantic biz card. While I agree with this in theory, I would like to mention that when I voluntarily paid off my National Parks $17K 0% balance with the intention of reallocating the $20K line to my Bank Atlantic card, I found that Juniper/Barclays closed my National Parks account the same day the payment posted. Note that I had not seen any adverse action from Juniper until that point.
lhendricks92
Senior Member - 1K
posted: Jan. 17, 2008 @ 3:45p
r0man said: lhendricks92 said: they cut my personal line and my wife's person line 3 times as I tried to pay the balance down to 89%. Happened about a year ago. regardless, i suggest moving all of your juniper BT investing activities to the BankAtlantic biz card. While I agree with this in theory, I would like to mention that when I voluntarily paid off my National Parks $17K 0% balance with the intention of reallocating the $20K line to my Bank Atlantic card, I found that Juniper/Barclays closed my National Parks account the same day the payment posted. Note that I had not seen any adverse action from Juniper until that point. oh, that's cold! were you showing devildoc's levels of personal debt at the time? i just reviewed his A0R - HIS NUMBERS ARE HUGE!
BTW, devilDoc, can you give us an update on your current personal/business debt and utilization?
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