Edit 7/19/08 Same bad program, new name. The Jubilee Project brought to you by the makers of the Money Merge Account is as bad for you as the original. Don't be fooled. Don't be a victim
** Warning to UFF - this requires following an "algorithm", using "algebra", and other High school math techniques ***
What UFF / MMA WON"T tell you. Get an analysis of how you can easily beat their plan - FOR FREE
This thread is not intended to be one of them. Nor it is intended for debate. The purpose is simple. An objective alternative analysis of what MMA proposes with their "data" as compared to simply prepaying your mortgage. We make no money off the analysis, so we have no stake. Simply seeking to make sure people have the data.
Simply post the following and we will show how the MMA comes out behind what you can more easily do on your own.
How long does MMA say it will take until your mortgage is paid off? What was the amount you owed on your mortgage when you began this program? What is the total amount of interest you will pay by using this program? (This number should be in the total interest paid column on your analysis) What is the interest rate of your mortgage?
Everyone, please ignore and mark as red any post that tries to create or respond to debate. These hucksters are excellent at misdirection. This thread, pure and simple, is intended to allow potential victims to get an objective analysis of how badly MMA performs as compared to easier to implement alternatives - BEFORE THEY ARE SEPARATED from $3500
scam UFF United First Financial, Money Merge, Scam, MMA, scam, u1stfinancial, u1st
UFF/MMA agents admitting that they lose In their own words, admitting that standard prepayment - an easy thing to do - beats MMA /UFF. Their numbers, their example, their math - and their admission
The link gives you all the details - the numbers that UFF gave our hapless scammee - and multiple better easy to implement alternatives
Option 1: $43,632.65 ($3500 purchase fee + $40,132.65 Total amount of interest to pay off mortgage under MMA scam (8.2 years)) Option 2: $37,138.19 Total amount of interest to pay off mortgage simply be paying the exact same amount directly to your mortgage (8.2 years) Option 3: $34,952.58 Total amount of interest to pay off mortgage in 8.2 years using the $3500 and applying it to mortgage immediately (and lower per month payment) Option 4: <$34952.58 - Did not run this, but if you kept payments as in 1 & 2, payment would be less than 8.2 years
As you can see, every option that exists, except "do nothing" beats the UFF /MLM scam by at least $6500
mikef07 said: I used your numbers, YOUR NUMBERS, to show that this will cost you $6,000 more. .... If you do it on your own, the amount of actual money that you will pay over those 8.4 years is ~$6,000 more.
icanselljesus
New Member
posted: Oct. 9, 2007 @ 9:46a
An objective alternative analysis of what MMA proposes
Everyone, please ignore and mark as red any post that tries to create or respond to debate. These hucksters are excellent at misdirection. This thread, pure and simple, is intended to allow potential victims to get an objective analysis of how badly MMA performs as compared to easier to implement alternatives - BEFORE THEY ARE SEPARATED from $3500
Ellroy - I am new to this message board and forum, therefore I am quite curious about this whole UFF/MMA thing - $3500 - what's that all about? But Anyhow...
the way you word your post and the language you use, in the context that you use it, makes you seem like a fraud yourself. Using words such as "FOR FREE" in bolded caps and Everyone, please ignore and mark as red any post that tries to create or respond to debate. only goes to create an atmosphere of fear used by a competitor of the company you are questioning. When you tell people to do something, when you try to HINDER DEBATE - you sound just as unethical as any company that may or may not be a huckster
Maybe I am wrong, but the tatics that you are using and the language you use makes it seems like that you are trying to debunk a product that is in competition with yours...it is pretty obvious that you are trying to sell something as well:
If you wish to run the numbers yourself use this excellent prepayment calculator - I mean come on Ellroy - this is simply nothing more than a link to your PRODUCT which is in direct competition with this MMA crap.
come on - sell me something new Ellroy. How objective are you really being? Do you even understand what objective means? Just in case here is the definition:
5. not influenced by personal feelings, interpretations, or prejudice; based on facts; unbiased: an objective opinion. Text http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/objective
I bet that you do not have enough courtesy to respond to the reply I am creating here - that's if you don't flag this reply 1st!!!
I could care less about debating UFF...did you even read my reply all the way through? When some one makes claims about subject A, claiming it to be "Objective" then redirects someone else to a site of their own, subject B, I have hard time calling that objective.
please point out, in explicit detail, where I have in any way tried to debate the merits of UFF or any product for that matter, in my 1st and only post so far on FW.
My only qualm is the misuse of logic - if Ellory has something real to point out then the way he worded his post is not necessary. Simply state what you have to offer, let the thinking public decide after the proper information has been presented and go from there. What Ellroy has done in What UFF / MMA WON"T tell you. Get an analysis of how you can easily beat their plan - FOR FREE is something Akin to Al Franken or Rush Limbaugh - misuse of logic to push a skewed perspective - if he really wants to help people, then there is no need for fear tactics and derogatory language, all that does is push people away - it is counter-productive to his agenda, which is quite stupid from a strategic perspective. If Ellroy or you for that matter wish to debunk anything, try a little bit of humility - it worked for Jesus.
Besides, I thought I proved my point by giving the dictionary defintion of of the WORD OBJECTIVE - can you or he honestly say that his post is objective?
So, please point out where my logic is wrong. Please point out, qoute from my original reply to Ellroy, where I tried to debate the merits of UFF.
WalStMonky
Happy Member
posted: Oct. 9, 2007 @ 10:45a
Man it's almost as reliable as gravity...mention the UFF scam and out of the woodwork comes a new screen name...
Sign you are a shill: you can't spell ellory. This is like the third shill to make this exact same mistake.
icanselljesus
New Member
posted: Oct. 9, 2007 @ 11:14a
I am a shill because I did not spell ellory's name right?
as I asked, once, and will again - please show where I have tried to debate the merits of any product.
All I am debating is the use of Ellory's logic and language. I am a Mass Media / Communication's PHD candidate - Temple University - The use of language and the logic employed to push such language are of natural concern to me - especially in any mass medium.
When I originally came to FW, I did so because my girlfriend and I are engaged to be married (Just so - this past weekend)and are in the very beginning stages of planning our lives together, so I ran across FW and here I am - I can assure you I am not here to sell anything. I am simply trying to ease my fears of the financial aspects of marriage (owning a home, life insurance, duel checking accts, credit cards, etc.)- we are in our mid-20's and are naturally nervous, albeit, in love.
So please, when you accuse me of being a shill, at least answer my question 1st - don't try to wade your way around my point by using dbl. speak and weak arguments based on if I did or did not spell your friends name right or not.
Ellory's tone stems from 80 pages of rebutting shills in the thread SiS linked to. I actually agree with you that the OP looks garish with all the smileys, and has something of the advertisement initial impression to it; but this is not the intent, I assure you.
I admit to now being bored by the entire UFF scam, but a couple of weeks ago gave considerable thought to coming up with the simplest explanation or demo that a hapless potential victim might understand, having come to our forum by way of a google search on UFF. I added it to SiS' FAQ on offset accounts in the summary section after the OP. This is Ellory's approach, using the equivalent of a P&I comparison calculator.
I don't know if the undecided will recognize a P&I comparison as a valid debunking of the scam, and in accord with Ellory's request, will not analyze or substantiate the logic in this thread. I will say fwiw, that I have no doubt it is completely valid.
brushwood
Greedy Member
posted: Oct. 9, 2007 @ 11:38a
Does anyone else find it interesting that MMA shills use monikers like "icanselljesus" and "confuseu"? Why not just sign up as "iamauffshill"?
I have been slow to recognize shills before, but do not think icanselljesus is one. I prefer to accept him at face value as someone who can probably provide very interesting insight into marketing a message.
Is Marshall Macluhan still venerated ? I'm probably just dating myself here
EricGo07 said: I have been slow to recognize shills before, but do not think icanselljesus is one.( spotting shills:
#1 New member #2 they bump a thread thats 2 weeks old, dozens of pages off the main page. Obviously they found this via google search for UFF or were searching for the UFF posts at FW
Spotting same posters as past shills
#3 they exhibit the same characteristics (misspelling ellory), trying to cloud discussion by starting an argument about objectivity/choice of tone vs. the subject of the thread, etc.
This is most certainly a shill, and probably one of the past shills in the other thread. Ask FW mods to compare the IP data between this user and the other shills
I've offered a gambit. Will he take it ? My experience with UFF shills so far is that they are all stupid, and will not recognize my offer, let alone avail themselves of it.
In my world, what you describe are known as risk factors; that it, epidemiological associations that increase the pre-test probability of something being true. I don't dispute any of the ones you mention, but am familiar with people who tend to listen much more than they talk; and only speak up when they are quite certain of their contribution. That sort of person would fit the shill pattern, but not be one.
Moreover, I think it better to let shills have their moment in the sun before being cut down, if the cost is errant tarring of a new contributor. I KNOW we are all sick of UFF shills, and have become sensitized to anything that reeks of them. Still, a bit of patience is a good thing, and civility always benefits the bearer in the end. I admit to mild hypocrisy in this last admonition.
Cheers
iamauffshill
New Member
posted: Oct. 9, 2007 @ 12:40p
brushwood said: Does anyone else find it interesting that MMA shills use monikers like "icanselljesus" and "confuseu"? Why not just sign up as "iamauffshill"?
icanselljesus said: long post 1. If you want to debate the merit of UFF / MMA or understand why it is a scam, please read post in the thread I've linked in the OP 2. If you don't like the prepayment calculator I linked to, feel free to use anyone you want. They will all show you the same result 3. I am not responding to personal attacks. 4. When something is false, I have a point of view and portray it. I do not believe outright false views- and lies -(e.g the world is flat) have "an equal right" to "express their viewpoint"
There was really no need to PM me to insist I respond to this thread. (I do have to sleep sometime) Everyone else was doing a great job.
This thread has a purpose, for people to post their numbers that UFF provided and then get an objective view of what they can do themselves so let's please stay on topic.
And please mark as red and do not respond to off topic posts - or this thread will get as swamped with off topic noise as the other ones
Definition of a shill, courtesy of WikipediaA shill is an associate of a person selling goods or services or a political group, who pretends no association to the seller/group and assumes the air of an enthusiastic customer. The intention of the shill is, using crowd psychology, to encourage others unaware of the set-up to purchase said goods or services or support the political group's ideological claims. Shills are often employed by confidence artists and governments.Our unmasked shills for this UFF scam tended to use straw man arguments to debate the scam. Your criticism of Ellory's medium was taken in the same light. Ironic, eh ?
ellory said: This thread has a purpose, for people to post their numbers that UFF provided and then get an objective view of what they can do themselves so let's please stay on topic.
And please mark as red and do not respond to off topic posts - or this thread will get as swamped with off topic noise as the other ones
calvinandhobbes
Thrifty Member
posted: Oct. 9, 2007 @ 3:05p
icanselljesus said: again, as I have said all day long please show where I tried to promote a product in any way, shape or form. If you can I will apologize and move forward...funny you should say that given you accused ellory of the very same thing when he wasn't advertising anything either. It may sound like it is, but I guarantee that you sounded far more like the UFF shills than he sounded like a huckster. not accusing you of being a shill, just pointing out an irony.
somewhat off topic... what's the longest the finance forum has gone without an MLM/UFF/"looking for more information on <insert scam of the week>" thread being started? Few days maybe?
New Mexico's state saying (ala state flower, animal etc) has recently been ratified to be "red or green ?" Ellory's avatar is a hint to it's meaning.
Red for me, surely . I promise this will be my last off-topic post
GiovanniGigiloMan
Member
posted: Nov. 6, 2007 @ 11:33p
Don't crucify me for being new on here, you have to start somewhere. I have been reserching MMA since I have bought the system and surfing around the internet. When found this and I felt compelled to sign up and reply. The Money Merge Account is NOT a scam and the $3500 is an investment in my family's future. I will be completely debt free in 7.8 years and that includes a $22,000 loan for a BMW that is less than a year old and a $174,200 1st Mtg and a $74,000 2nd that was almost maxed when I started the program. As well as other credit card debt. It has given me a way to plan my future and my finances currently, as well as shown me how I can use the system to build up a very nice retirement. There is also a 100% Money Back Guarantee. This programwas paid for the 2nd month I was on it so everthing else is gravy. I could stop using it right now and still be further ahead than I was a few months ago. I don't understand why people attack something that you have not fully checked out and are commenting on what you think this is rather than what you know it is. I would like to know how many of you are doing this on your own,and achieving results anywhere close. I bet not one of you are. Also the coolest thing about MMA is that I am using the banks money to pay off my debt and keeping my money working for me!
If you arent a shill, you will follow the guidelines of this thread (repeated below) This thread has a purpose, for people to post their numbers that UFF provided and then get an objective view of what they can do themselves so let's please stay on topic.
GiovanniGigiloMan
Member
posted: Nov. 6, 2007 @ 11:41p
I expected that. Not a shill just a happy customer.
GiovanniGigiloMan said: Don't crucify me for being new on here, you have to start somewhere. I have been reserching MMA since I have bought the system and surfing around the internet. When found this and I felt compelled to sign up and reply. The Money Merge Account is NOT a scam and the $3500 is an investment in my family's future. I will be completely debt free in 7.8 years and that includes a $22,000 loan for a BMW that is less than a year old and a $174,200 1st Mtg and a $74,000 2nd that was almost maxed when I started the program. As well as other credit card debt. It has given me a way to plan my future and my finances currently, as well as shown me how I can use the system to build up a very nice retirement. There is also a 100% Money Back Guarantee. This programwas paid for the 2nd month I was on it so everthing else is gravy. I could stop using it right now and still be $70,000 further ahead than I was a few months ago. I don't understand why people attack something that you have not fully checked out and are commenting on what you think this is rather than what you know it is. I would like to know how many of you are doing this on your own,and achieving results anywhere close. I bet not one of you are. Also the coolest thing about MMA is that I am using the banks money to pay off my debt and keeping my money working for me!
Unlike the short sighted people here I say congratulations to you. Could you have done the same thing on your own ? Yes. Would it have been cheaper? Yes. Would you have? From what you say, no. So if $3500 spent by you helps you reach your goals that you would not have otherwise reached then good for you.
Some of these same jokesters on this board spent hundreds of thousand on private schools or out of state tuition when they could have gone to an in state public school and saved money. They have normal jobs (meaning they make $80,000 or less) that they could have obtained just as easily with that in state education. Did they waste their money? I guess so. If you are happy and you are on your way to your goals who am I to say that isn't $4,000-$5,000 (price you will pay extra over the long haul) well spent?
GiovanniGigiloMan
Member
posted: Nov. 7, 2007 @ 7:48a
mikef07 said: GiovanniGigiloMan said:
Some of these same jokesters on this board spent hundreds of thousand on private schools or out of state tuition when they could have gone to an in state public school and saved money. They have normal jobs (meaning they make $80,000 or less) that they could have obtained just as easily with that in state education. Did they waste their money? I guess so. If you are happy and you are on your way to your goals who am I to say that isn't $4,000-$5,000 (price you will pay extra over the long haul) well spent?
Thanks, I only had a two year stint at NCSU chasing coeds 20 years ago. My sister however is a graduate from an private college in VA with a finance and accounting degree.She married a VP at Leeman Bros. I had them both take a look at this before I purchased it and it blew them away. They have just started using it. I will see them over Thanksgiving to look at their results after they make their first funds transfer this month. By the way they have a 1.5 million apt in SOHO.
GiovanniGigiloMan said: mikef07 said: GiovanniGigiloMan said: ... .... Please respect the OP's wishes and take it to the other thread. I've redded you because of the OP's wishes. Now everyone please red me too.
GiovanniGigiloMan
Member
posted: Nov. 7, 2007 @ 8:15a
I posted my numbers on my first reply. I then gave a positive response that is the truth on the next. DO you want me to lie and say only neagative things in here. Is that what Fat Wallet is all about?
WalStMonky
Happy Member
posted: Nov. 7, 2007 @ 8:40a
I see numbers in your post, but nowhere near enough to do any calculations. Insufficient data. Now, why in the world would people into the UFF scam be so resistant to posting a complete data set?
edit: LOL, nobody here is adamant about disproving it. That's water under the bridge a long time ago and we've even got the t-shirts to prove it.
GiovanniGigiloMan
Member
posted: Nov. 7, 2007 @ 8:45a
I am gathering my report right now to post in a minute. Why are you people so adament about disproving this, is it above your comprehension level?. I am an actual client.
calvinandhobbes
Thrifty Member
posted: Nov. 7, 2007 @ 9:08a
GiovanniGigiloMan said: I am gathering my report right now to post in a minute. Why are you people so adament about disproving this, is it above your comprehension level?. I am an actual client.i would bet $1000 based on the name dropping that this story is not legit (researching after you bought?). he has no understanding of finance, only standard UFF talking points. 99.99% shill. Why are we adamantly trying to disprove? Most people try to help out people in need. People NEED to know the truth behind this. Can't wait to see your numbers...
Google results hurtin' ya business much?
GiovanniGigiloMan
Member
posted: Nov. 7, 2007 @ 9:40a
Changed and reposted.
calvinandhobbes
Thrifty Member
posted: Nov. 7, 2007 @ 10:07a
see this is the flaw with this thread. people dumb enough (sorry Gman, not a more accurate word to use there) to buy into MMA aren't smart enough to know what information to post.
what's your extra income you have available to apply towards debt? if you are paying off all your debt in 8 years, you have to have a LOT of it. What are the interest rates of the various debts you have? You didn't think that might be relevant?
This is why I say 99.99% sure this guy is a UFF shill. He only spouts the result, not what it actually takes to get there, IE, REAL PAYMENTS he has to make.
Everyone just happens "to be researching the product they just bought." Yeah, I'm going to go buy a few thousand dollars worth of stock......and then research the company.
GiovanniGigiloMan said: interest rates for all those loans would be useful, as well as your monthly net income and monthly net expenses before and after MMA. Also you seem to be leaving out something on your negative amortization first mortgage, so we'll need the terms of this ARM.
From the OP Simply post the following and we will show how the MMA comes out behind what you can more easily do on your own.
How long does MMA say it will take until your mortgage is paid off? What was the amount you owed on your mortgage when you began this program? What is the total amount of interest you will pay by using this program? (This number should be in the total interest paid column on your analysis) What is the interest rate of your mortgage?
I googled for this after recording an infomercial for Mortgage acceleration.
Q: Why can’t I make extra principal payments to my primary mortgage and achieve the same results? A: Simply put, the mathematics behind LEAP® present a sophisticated process that has a substantial financial benefit over increasing your monthly payments. The algorithms in the proprietary LEAP® system are systematically programmed to create the highest interest savings possible in the least amount of time. The math engines programmed in the LEAP® system calculate the specific timing and dollar amounts required to produce the most optimum savings possible.
This sounds like the exact wording from some MMA agents' sites.
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