This is my first AOR and I just might make it a country-style AOR. By that I mean no Citi apps. Read below to see why.
UPDATE 10-19: Never mind about skipping Citi...see Quick Summary.
Anyway, I hope I can contribute at least a few good data points to the FWF community. Thanks to such AOR folks as DjPiLL (I borrowed heavily!), markkundinger, lhendricks92, miker397, thisguy, venturion, markber, maddhatter, SIS, DaveHanson and too many more folks to mention…
If you’re tired of reading AOR threads, go ahead and suggest something that maybe I can do or contribute to make this AOR interesting for you.
Credit Age -- Old – first cards: Dept Store 25+ years, AMEX 20+. Currently have 6 young cards and 2 old ones (see list). Credit History -- Flawless for 20 years
Job -- Same employer for 20 years Home -- Same residence for 15 years
Assets -- Home, market value $400k Liability 1 -- 15-year fixed, rate sub-5%, 12 years to go, PITI under $1,400, bal. $115k Liability 2 -- $30k HELOC, bal. $19k (reporting), $23k (as of Nov. 1)
Credit Utilization -- With HELOC, 26%; credit cards only, 9% (see cards below)
FAKOs (using TrueCredit) 6/15 Tu 763 Ex 709 Eq 692 8/15 Tu 760 Ex 734 Eq 738 10/22 Tu 782 Ex 740 Eq 777
Inquiries (cable and mtge inqs excluded) Pre-b*: TU 3 / EX 5 / EQ 3 (B* began in June) Current: TU 0 / EX 3 / EQ 1 (EX: 3 Citi, 2006; EQ: 1 AMEX, mid-2006)
Goals 1- Avoid serious missteps in AOR execution 2- Become a decent AOR practitioner 3- For AOR1, get 10-20 new cards (some business) with many different lenders having 0% BT offers, including 2 or more “bankable” cards 4- Invest 0% BTs wisely in short-term CDs, HYS and MMA 5- Lather, rinse, repeat; i.e., set the stage for subsequent AORs, in which I invest 0% BTs in same places (and possibly elsewhere) to increase wealth
AOR Preparation March -- FICO 718 May – Closed AT&T2, reallocated its 7k to AT&T1, CL now 17k May – Applied for new Discover cards (each 0%, 12 mos., $75 BT fee) for DW and me. Got CLs of $8k (instant approval, no BT request) and $10.5k (48-hr. approval, requested 9.5k BT at time of app), respectively. BTs from Citi AT&T1 and HELOC, $6k and $9.5k, resp. June – TrueCredit monitoring @ $11.21 per month July – BofA CLI fm 5k to 10k; AMEX Blue CLI fm 5k to 12k Aug – Saw the effects of taking Citi’s CL buyback program – pitiful CL now, but at least we “cashed it in” Aug – AMEX Blue CLI fm 12k to 18k
I plan to open a Fidelity MMA and apply for the Fido Visa card at the same time.
Other Comments I am trying to emphasize business cards here, but I wound up with a pretty short list, having rejected many for one reason or another. Same is true to a lesser extent for personal cards. I am shooting for 100k BT funds, more or less.
QUESTIONS—
BTs – Taking the conservative approach, I plan not to request BTs at the time of app on most cards. I know that for some cards, I may get higher CLs by requesting a large BT, but I don’t want to get into much trouble with credit balances. With this approach, am I selling myself short on this AOR?
Proof of Apps, Proof of Terms and Conditions – As I apply for each card, I plan to save each web page of the app process (including Terms and Conditions) to one or more PDF files. Should I consider using something other than PDF-creation software, maybe SnagIt (screen-capture software)?
Offers/Links – Since I’ve been collecting app links for a while, I’m a little concerned about expired offers and expired links. Maybe this is a non-issue but, when applying for a given card, if the screen says that the app has been processed or that I’ve been approved, is there still a chance that they’ll withdraw the processing or approval due to an expired offer or expired link?
Variety of Issuers – I have noticed that many good BT offers cited by recent AOR folks originate from issuers who don’t serve residents of MA. This is one reson I have tried to follow markkundinger’s excellent suggestion to take a shot a cards issued by relatively unknown, local lenders. For example, I could try Citizens Bank (part of RBS), but since they have no decent BT offers, I would be using such cards simply for purposes of utilization. I think I have enough of that currently with PenFed and UnionPlus – what do you think?
Idea on Credit Pulls – This idea comes from markkundinger (who considered it anal-retentive). Anyway, as mentioned, my inquiries now are as follows: TU 0 EX 3 EQ 1. If I have time, I will shoot for another data point by placing the emphasis of this AOR on cards from lenders whom I expect (or somewhat expect) to pull TU and EQ, based on my review of the recent entries under MA in the CB credit pulls database. Maybe I can do an “EX AOR” in 9 months when all inqs are gone. Thoughts on this?
Country-Style AOR? – I am considering making this a “country-style” AOR; i.e., no Citi apps. My reasons: 1) I’m pretty curious about what would happen, and I really do want to give FWFers some decent data points – this could be an opportunity for some; 2) Citi knows I have already taken advantage of 4 or 5 0% BT offers, and may be getting tired of giving me any more; 3) In this AOR, I may have plenty of apps and approvals with other lenders and won’t need Citi; 4) I already have 3 Citi cards, so I wouldn’t gain anything in terms of diversifying lenders; 5) I am spending plenty of time as it is on this AOR and really don’t want to spend any time nursing any adverse action w/ Citi in particular; 6) I’d like to see whether Citi ends up sending me any nice 0% BT offers within, say, a year of the AOR; 7) I prefer that my EX inquiries come from the AOR-targeted lenders with whom I have no cards; 8) I may be on Citi’s s**t list anyway, since I had enrolled in their Payment Partner Program which a) paid us $550 (the max) and b) cut our CL fm 9k to 1k. The offers they send me now are the absolute pits, and I want to see whether that will change!
Maybe reason 8) is actually a reason for me to go for 1 personal and 1 biz card. Thoughts?
Edited 10-15, 10-19, 10-22 for broken links and minor stuff
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The original title was "bogalusa’s Old-Timer (and Country-Style???) AOR." But I included 3 Citi apps after all.
UPDATE TOTALS - Estimated $167K in new CLs Looks like about $63K in new biz credit and about $104K in new personal credit
Cards in order of application
The first 8 are the really worthwhile ones to me, of which the first 4 might have the “fussiest” issuers. Then 1 BoA and 1 GE (my only apps from them), then 2 citi biz and 4 chase (2 biz, 2 pers), then finally 5 more in the category of “let’s just see what happens” (now trying for USBank's Baylor card for utilization -- let's see if they'll issue in MA).
Citi Drivers Edge 0% BT, 12 mos., NO BT FEE, bankable --- $25 CS Approved $4.5K
BofA Platinum Plus Visa 0% BT, 12 mos., NO BT FEE Approved $4.4K, immediate CLI to $15K. Plus, credit analyst offered me a new 5k line (no inquiry) on a BofA/AMEX card. I'll take it!
Citi Biz and Prof (and Business PremierPass) have 15k Thankyou Points offers. See here for links. Those are also all no-fee, and the BT can be delayed up to 12 months.
Chase has some business cards on CS with 12-month offers, and $30/each to boot. Seems they would be better than your current Chase business selections.
If you are using CS anyways, add a couple AMEX business cards - easy $60/each, although BT offers are rather weak (0% on purchases though - use google checkout before the end of the year to run the balance up?).
EDIT - Oh yeah, and what could possibly happen as a result of excluding Citi apps, besides not getting approved for any new Citi cards? Not being sarcastic, but I fail to see any useful info that may come from doing that. True, you may not be able to reallocate your existing $17k limit to a new promo-rate card, but the business apps will still be useful to you.
- Do you literally intend on applying for all business cards first, then all personal?
- If you read teh fine print of the BofA business link, it states that the BT fee is 3%, uncapped. Now, you may very well get a capped fee, but as I learned in my AOR, a 9mo BT with a $100 fee has a breakeven point of around $3k, and isn't particularly lucrative, especially since there's no reallocation with personal BofA cards.
- I'd have a hard time not applying for a least a few citibank cards. The deals are just to good, it's like leaving money on the table. Now, I flogged Citibank pretty hard on my last AOR, but it netted $800 in TY points and $50000 in debt, so I think it was worth it.
- There was that strea of unsolicited wamu apps getting crappy lines. I'm not sure if it's been broken yet. Just an FYI.
- The HSBC UnionPlus might be a little bit subprime, so who knows what you'll get there (what with the HSBC space monkeys and everything).
I got BOFA to cap my BT fees to $150 (i BTed 25k $$ => 750$ BT fee).... ymmv i am wary of advanta and hsbc as they gave me CL of $3k-5k only and require paper documentation for increase so no go for me there!
markkundinger said:- Do you literally intend on applying for all business cards first, then all personal?
- If you read teh fine print of the BofA business link, it states that the BT fee is 3%, uncapped. Now, you may very well get a capped fee, but as I learned in my AOR, a 9mo BT with a $100 fee has a breakeven point of around $3k, and isn't particularly lucrative, especially since there's no reallocation with personal BofA cards.
- I'd have a hard time not applying for a least a few citibank cards. The deals are just to good, it's like leaving money on the table. Now, I flogged Citibank pretty hard on my last AOR, but it netted $800 in TY points and $50000 in debt, so I think it was worth it.
- There was that strea of unsolicited wamu apps getting crappy lines. I'm not sure if it's been broken yet. Just an FYI.
- The HSBC UnionPlus might be a little bit subprime, so who knows what you'll get there (what with the HSBC space monkeys and everything).
bogalusa said:Country-Style AOR? – I am considering making this a “country-style” AOR; i.e., no Citi apps. My reasons: 1) I’m pretty curious about what would happen, and I really do want to give FWFers some decent data points – this could be an opportunity for some; 2) Citi knows I have already taken advantage of 4 or 5 0% BT offers, and may be getting tired of giving me any more; 3) In this AOR, I may have plenty of apps and approvals with other lenders and won’t need Citi; 4) I already have 3 Citi cards, so I wouldn’t gain anything in terms of diversifying lenders; 5) I am spending plenty of time as it is on this AOR and really don’t want to spend any time nursing any adverse action w/ Citi in particular; 6) I’d like to see whether Citi ends up sending me any nice 0% BT offers within, say, a year of the AOR; 8) I may be on Citi’s s**t list anyway, since I had enrolled in their Payment Partner Program which a) paid us $550 (the max) and b) cut our CL fm 9k to 1k. The offers they send me now are the absolute pits, and I want to see whether that will change!
I don't think you should worry about citi I got 550 from their payment partner program 2-3 month ago. And during recent AOR(about 1 month ago) applied and got approved for: AT&T(6000thank you + 0% for 12 month no fee), Businesss PP(15000+0% for 12), Personal PP Elite(15000+0% for 12), Citi business(15000 thank you + 0% for 12) No averse action, just got checks from city payable to myself.
Why wait for offers on existing accounts, just apply and get them
as for AMEX, at least get the following: AMEX Gold Business (60 from cardselection + 25000pts), AMEX Starwood Business($60 form CS + 10000pts), starwood personal(30 from CS + 10000pts) If you want to do 0% BT for 6 month get IN XYZ(NYC/LA/Chico) card from AMEX as well, but watch out for FR(i.e. don't request big CLIs and don't utilize more than 50% of CL)
Re no Citi apps ("country-style"), I'll go ahead and add 3 apps. I supppose I was a) curious as to what FWFers thought, and b) conscious of the fact that I wasn't about to do a huge AOR (can't afford the time) and so could afford to keep Citi off the roster.
Glitch99, thanks for the links. I will update the QS with any changes to links and (eventually) the results.
markkundinger, I will update the QS with the revised order of apps, along with my related thinking. After this reordering, I doubt that I will sweat things that much with regard to the order of apps, as I am applying for far fewer apps than most A0R folks. Besides, I plan on pulling the trigger on 10/22 and 10/23 and won't really have time for further revisions.
Looking forward to more feedback before Monday night...
1. BT's at app time. I really have not seen any evidence that the this practice has resulted in higher amounts. On the contrary I have seen adverse action on limits and BT's that you can't stop once in motion.
2. Proof. In my first AOR I have one issue with Citi on bonus points but other than that, all cards have come in as expected. My second AOR I didn't bother at all. To save it, don't bother with the pdf, just print to file (microsoft file writer) then you can print it as needed in the future.
3. Idea on only using TU and EQ is way anal retentive! The only time this will bite you is on the re-up and even then if over a year it won't.
4. Citi Professional is a personal card. I can send you a link for 0% 12 months no bt fee and a free 10K typ (on first purchase) and as a bonus I get 10K typ If you can't find a decent link. Just PM me. Wait, looking at your offer there is no fee... How about it you want to use my link lol its the same offer and I get TY points also OK enough begging.
You can also add a Citi ATT rewards card with 6K TYP bonus. The ATT universal card does not seem to "count" toward the citi applicaiton limit and I have successfully gotten Drivers Edge, ATT, and Professional in the same AOR.
I'd request a BT with the Bank Atlantic app too - I requested a $15k BT, was instantly approved for $15200 (not sure if it was related, but I wonder what would have happened had I requested a $20k BT?). Doesnt hurt, and being a Biz card you dont need to worry about any high utilization showing on your report.
If you want a good card to boost available credit (for overall utilization), try the US Bank Baylor Alumni card - it gave me a $15k limit as card #17 (pull #5 on EXP) in my A0R. No good for BTs (no-cap fee) but 0% applies to purchases too.
And you may be pushing it with Chase. But since terms are the same, you may want to atleast move the Sony card first to ensure the $100 credit (would be a shame if they cut you off at 4 apps). I'd drop one or two (I got the feeling that 4 - 2 personal and 2 biz - ended up being one too many for me), but the worst that can happen is they reject them so no real harm for the learning opportunity.
Well you obviously read my AOR history. Here are my data points:
- Definitely go for more Citi cards. The Citi cards you added to your list are good. I had three cards and one had a 24k balance at 85% utilization. I still got three out of three approvals... 45k in TYPs. If you are maxed out in credit limits with them, they will call you and offer to reallocate your cards (PERFECT TIME TO DO THIS EASILY). The woman that called me to say I was approved for the new cards had the power to do instant reallocations. Very useful!
- DON'T do a BT with the Bank Atlantic Biz. You may get a 25k limit from them like I did... but because I requested 15k BT in the application I had to eat another $75 fee. Also remember you are reallocating from the Nat Parks to this card so it really doesn't make a sense to do a BT with this card.
- I also wouldn't recommend doing a BT with the LifeSpring Health card application unless you don't mind a little 100% utilization on your credit report. They may give you a credit limit matching your BT leaving no room to get under 89% utilization. If you want to tempt fate... request a high limit BT in the application (at least 15k... try for 20k)... send it to a HELOC if possible (doesn't have to be 16 digit account number)... and call them a day or two after the application to check on the status. If you get them on the right day... you can have them change the BT amount after you find out you were approved to lower it to under 89% util.
- Don't be afraid of Advanta low CLs. I got a 10,000 limit with them and my wife got 12,500! I still don't know how she pulled off a higher limit on that card than I did.
- Don't expect much from WAMU unless you have a targetted offer. If they give you a weak 1k limit... hold onto the card and hope for a targetted offer in the future.
I decided to drop Chase GM Business. That means 2 Chase biz and 2 Chase personal. Adding USBank Baylor makes the final count 21 – 7 business and 14 personal.
And we’re off…let's see whether we can take care of all 21 at one sitting.
In terms of "too much citi apps" it really depends on what you're going for, and if you don't mind the extra inquiries. I applied for the "supermax" of 5 (2 personal, 2 business, 1 prof). A couple were for 0%, the rest were for bonuses.
bogalusa said:I decided to drop Chase GM Business. That means 2 Chase biz and 2 Chase personal. Adding USBank Baylor makes the final count 21 – 7 business and 14 personal.
And we’re off…let's see whether we can take care of all 21 at one sitting.I applied for the same - 3 were approved. The 4th (a personal one) was denied due to the length of time since my last new account was opened. May have been because of the first three, or maybe factored in the 3 accounts opened about a year ago. I'd still bump the Sony card up to the 1st Chase card for that reason (the $100 credit plus BT beats the other offers, and you can still reallocate it to a biz card before BTing)
Regarding BofA - I figured I'd want to ask for a CLI and/or transfer part of my existing BofA CL to the new card. So I waited until Monday morning. The conversation went something like this:
I mentioned my surprise at the weak 4,400 CL. The CSR asked whether I was planning to do a BT. Glad you mentioned that -- I was surprised at low CL Do you have a BT amount in mind? Maybe we can do something about that... My income, employment (I always volunteer my job longevty here), HHI, mtge payment (nice to report, since it excludes insurance and taxes). He told me there would be a hard inquiry, but I figured I'd take the hit.
On hold, he comes back Tells me he will transfer me to a credit guy Sr. credit guy takes down similar info from me On hold for a while, comes back "There must have been some kind of oversight" He mentioned 1976 as age of my credit (Note: They originally pulled EX; this time, it was EQ. This must be the reason my credit looks so good?) Boom! CLI to 15k! Not only that, but while the terms seem to indicate BTs are for other credit lines, the credit guy talked in terms of BTing to my checking. I have no problem there!
Next conversation with same credit guy: He called, and I asked about taking an old 10K line and moving 7.5k of it to the new card. No problem, so he took my checking acct info and sent 20k to it. So the new 4.4k line turned into a 22.5k line. (11/1: reporting as 27.5K?!)
AND in the process, he started gushing about how good my credit was and offered me a new 5k line (no inquiry) on a BofA/AMEX card. "Loads of features," he said, including 1.99% BT w/ $75 cap (at 5k, not that attractive). Several minutes of legalese later, the card was mine.
Did you call about the Disc Open Road card? You can have up to three accounts with Disc, so I see no reason it should be declined. Now that the Biz app has been approved, they should be able to take another look at and approve the personal card as well. Call in to ask, and I'll bet they'll approve it on the spot.
Great tip about Disc Open Road, I'll try it and report.
Re Sony, guess I was focusing too much on biz. Also, the browser (or I) messed up on Citi Prof, Citi Biz and Chase Sony, so I had to apply about 16 hours after the others.
Natl City - BT $13.5K (90% util, should have made it 89%), mailing a check
USBank Baylor - BT $13.3K to HELOC
That makes about $47K requested in BTs over a 3-day period from new personal CLs. I have about $100K in new personal CLs and no more than 30% util on previous personal CLs. Anyone think I have gone overboard? At the very least I will wait until the smoke clears before doing any more BTs from personal lines.
Chase Business Cards - I applied for both Chase Biz Rebate and for Chase Platinum Business Visa -- or at least I thought I did. Ended up with two of the latter at $10K and activated both of them. Not sure if it's worthwhile asking Chase to consolidate; I may take the 2 BTs with 2 fees and not look a gift horse in the mouth.
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If you can't find a decent link. Just PM me. Wait, looking at your offer there is no fee... How about it you want to use my link lol its the same offer and I get TY points also 
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