forget about the racist angle, that won't fly. i'm sure the reasons for your account closure was documented well beforehand. anyway, since it was a fraud notation on your acct and u had to deal with the fraud department, couple that with what the last csr said regarding convenience checks, it's pretty clear to me why they closed your acct. this is what fwf'ers have been dreading.
there have clearly been people before u that have done larger AOR related transactions but maybe there has been a change in policy? let's not forget the recent sub-prime mortgage troubles. all the big banks have huge exposure to it. i don't believe boa has revealed yet the full impact on their balance sheet yet. citi just said they would be writing off about $10 billion.
perhaps banks are taking a hard look at ALL their exposure. the next big thing is all the unsecured debt from credit cards. this may be a the start of the end of all the wasy credit we've all been accustomed to. i don't blame them if they decide it's not prudent to extend $500k in lines to some college kid who claims his household income is $200k. perhaps they are going to go thru every acct and look at how much credit is available on credit reports and compare that to some income ratio, who knows?
theficus said: Yes, I was told a debit of $888,888.88 is a fraud notation. I'm more inclined to believe that the BofA employees are now feeling happy that they think they have just stopped the subprime mortgages timebomb countdown at 888,888.88. Which part of the Lethal Weapon movie is that in?
asdf9876
Happy Member
posted: Nov. 6, 2007 @ 7:47p
I do not want to draw attention to my problem, in fact I don't really want to talk about it at all especially in someone else's thread.
I look pretty white and I have very German sounding name.
Anyway the Fidelity "risk management" group shut me down in a very similar manner to the OP. The best (most absurd) part is I did not have margin so I didn't see how I was much of a risk. They were very rude and refused to talk to me about. All my accounts were closed permanently.
I have no reason to doubt a racist remark was made by an individual to the OP. But it really pisses me off when something bad happens to a minority they hide behind cries of racism. The decision was made well in advance of the slur, was likely in part automated and almost definitely was made by someone other than the one who made the remark.
Again I will not talk about my issue again in this thread. PM me if you really have to know more.
I'm just saying I'm not going to a couple dozen websites saying my accounts were closed because of my ethnicity. I could be wrong but on a % basis there are probably more ethnic Hispanics, particularly in my SoCal region, then there are ethnic Germans but no one wants to give me minority rights.
glxpass
Senior Member - 5K
posted: Nov. 6, 2007 @ 7:55p
TheWiseGuy said: perhaps banks are taking a hard look at ALL their exposure. the next big thing is all the unsecured debt from credit cards. this may be a the start of the end of all the wasy credit we've all been accustomed to. i don't blame them if they decide it's not prudent to extend $500k in lines to some college kid who claims his household income is $200k. perhaps they are going to go thru every acct and look at how much credit is available on credit reports and compare that to some income ratio, who knows? So perhaps The Bank Of America Credit Line Increase on Crack Thread is just a set up for the 16-ton weight about to dropped on us? Reminds me of BoA Defenders of Wildlife Money Market Account, which went up to 5.71% APY shortly before the 9/18 FOMC meeting. Now it's 4.56% APY at the highest tier.
For the record, in the future you can always ask initially if the call is being recorded, and then ask for an identifying piece of information of the person on the phone (extension, last name, etc) before you go into your situation. You may then have an avenue to have the phone representative disciplined or identified for terrible (or good if you wish to ship a compliment) service using the date, time, and person you spoke with.
cashmonkey said: dealingdede said: Wow, that is really bad. I looked at the AOR site and to tell you the truth it does not look legitimate. Couldn't even find them in Better Business Bureau. You supplied a lot of personel info to sign up and that is an easy way of people stealing your ID. I got an email something like this a while back and just deleted it. Dude, you have to research things before you put your info out there. At the bottom of the site it reads:
Efforts have been made to provide accurate information; however, all actions you take as a result of the information here are your responsibility. Do your own research before acting.
I think that says it all. Hee hee. Funny
Notice that this is dealingdede's first post.....how did he find this place in the first place - maybe he needs a chaperone?
SUCKISSTAPLES said: Newsflash - just bc someone utters a racist statement doesnt mean aything.
Unless the fraud investigator who made a racial statement during dicussions with OP was the same one who made the account closure decisions, this has nothing to do with why this action was taken.I'll answer, in case your comment is an oblique reply to my posts. I earlier said that I don't think the slur has anything to do with the account closing. I am encouraging OP to consider racial harassment charges because I think he has a case /*unrelated*/ to his account problems.
I certainly might be wrong, and IANAL of any type or persuasion. A short telephone call to the right kind of lawyer however, may be informative and useful. Heck, it may even be profitable. Slamming a racist *and* a bank is double dipping at its best.
Grobe
Senior Member
posted: Nov. 6, 2007 @ 9:03p
In his initial post the OP said: "I have had these accounts for approximately 7 months and use them as my main accounts"
This is in no way a long-term customer.
My belief is that the problems he had were because of the AOR games he was playing as a new customer. It's very clear to me that to be safe people should set up AOR accounts at different institutions than their primary checking accounts.
ArbolLoco
Tired Member
posted: Nov. 6, 2007 @ 9:28p
theficus said: I'm Muslim and I was born in the Middle East. One of my parents is white and I grew up speaking English, so nobody can tell my race or religion unless they know my name. The CSR pretty much called me a terrorist.sounds like your name ended up on some type of Treasury Department watch list. unfortunately in the Muslim world, as in China, certain name/surname combinations are very common/repetitive.
I have an immigration lawyer friend who is representing a Syrian family, all of whom were granted asylum... except for the son. Let's say that his name is Osman al-Tabrini. The name Osman al-Tabrini appears on a DHS watch list as an undesirable alien... so the family is fighting his deportation. One problem... this Osman al-Tabrini is seven years old and knows more about Pokemon than he knows about Jihad. He was just born with the wrong name. Heck even Ted Kennedy had problems with a similar name showing up on a do-not-fly list.
rnj1975
Happy Member
posted: Nov. 6, 2007 @ 9:29p
OP, first you said this (on page 2 of the thread):
EDIT: Before anyone asks, yes, I'm a US citizen (natural born) and yes, I provided Bank of America with entirely accurate personal information.
And then you said this (on page 8 of the thread):
I'm Muslim and I was born in the Middle East. One of my parents is white and I grew up speaking English, so nobody can tell my race or religion unless they know my name. The CSR pretty much called me a terrorist.
And make sure that a reasonable version of your name isn't one it. There is at least a small possibility that a good match to your name appears on the OFAC list, and that's why BofA is closing the accounts. However, if it were the reason, then I would suspect that they either wouldn't tell you ANYTHING about the closure.
And I'd recommend a letter to the office of BofA's CEO, carefully laying out two points:
1) The closure of accounts being bogus 2) The unprofessionalism of the fraud department.
beethovengirl said: That's what I thought. Contact CAIR. ...
I don't think I would do that since there is now a great push for congressional investigation of that group because of alleged ties and financing by declared terrorist groups.
It's not OP's fault that they only have about 3 dozen surnames over there, but I still don't think I'd call Ibish for help.... maybe the ACLU would be a little better.
FYI, Savage called for his entire audience to call their reps and sens to ask for this investigation just today. If you don't know what I'm talking about then just ignore what I said.
rnj1975 said: OP, first you said this (on page 2 of the thread):
EDIT: Before anyone asks, yes, I'm a US citizen (natural born) and yes, I provided Bank of America with entirely accurate personal information.
And then you said this (on page 8 of the thread):
I'm Muslim and I was born in the Middle East. One of my parents is white and I grew up speaking English, so nobody can tell my race or religion unless they know my name. The CSR pretty much called me a terrorist.
Am I missing something?
One of the parents must be an US citizen therefore OP was born a US citizen.
I read pages 1-3 and here is what I would suggest, sorry if it is covered before:
1. the high profile/high risk option: go through legal route. A competent lawyer can establish the damage the bank has caused you in closing all of your accounts without notices. Plus there is the racial slur incident.
2. the low profile/less time consuming option: write a complaint to the office of the comptroller of the currency. They have a website and I am almost certain they have an online complaint form.
delzy said: beethovengirl said: That's what I thought. Contact CAIR. ...
I don't think I would do that since there is now a great push for congressional investigation of that group because of alleged ties and financing by declared terrorist groups. CAIR has been under a cloud of suspicion for years now. I'm not aware of anything new. In any case, I still think CAIR might have some advice on how the OP should proceed, since I suspect his name has been flagged due to similarity to a name on a terrorist watch list like the OFAC list.
psychtobe
Senior Member - 2K
posted: Nov. 6, 2007 @ 10:05p
Call Clark Howard. He loves this kind of stuff and his team is very willing to listen to a case. He also dislikes BOA as it is. Just make sure your story adds up before going public.
IMHO If the bank thinks he committed a unlawful act, with the funds transfer, and judging by the banks comment the DHS has/will be notifed and will possibly investigate him. This is just stirring up the pot of trouble for him.
While I dont agree with the treatment of OP if all he says is true. IMHO he should just move on, that is if he still can. At times its best to stand your ground, and some times it best to walk away. Extraordinary renditions.
.mostly arabic and hispanic names. Time to sue this Racist govt!
uood8
Member
posted: Nov. 6, 2007 @ 10:23p
Your account was probably flagged for money laundering, which the bank will have nothing to do with if they even suspect something. and by you making a large deposit then transferring funds to outside instutitions is a huge red flad. All calls to customer service are now recorded ( at least the center i was at) as of Jan 07.
uood8 said: Your account was probably flagged for money laundering, which the bank will have nothing to do with if they even suspect something. and by you making a large deposit then transferring funds to outside instutitions is a huge red flad. I [and many rate-chasing FWFers] have made plenty of 6-figure deposits and then transfered them to outside institutions soon after. I've never had any issues.
beethovengirl said: I [and many rate-chasing FWFers] have made plenty of 6-figure deposits and then transfered them to outside institutions soon after. I've never had any issues.
we dont have names that sound like known terrorists or Colombian drug dealers either.
As was said above, these names are often common Arabic and Hispanic names, yet even innocents sharing similar name are subject to increased scrutiny.
Ive said this several times before in this forum and people doubted me/dont want to believe its true. But if you have Arabic/SE Asian sounding name you must be VERY careful playing financial games. Yes this includes the numerous Indians, Pakistanis etc reading these boards. They arent targeting you bc of race or religion, they are targeting the names.
beethovengirl said: uood8 said: Your account was probably flagged for money laundering, which the bank will have nothing to do with if they even suspect something. and by you making a large deposit then transferring funds to outside instutitions is a huge red flad. I [and many rate-chasing FWFers] have made plenty of 6-figure deposits and then transfered them to outside institutions soon after. I've never had any issues.
But they dont have the OPS name.
aeiouy
Senior Member - 1K
posted: Nov. 6, 2007 @ 10:45p
scott1961 said: Don't want to derail your thread but you are accusing a bank of something pretty serious by saying they called you a "Racial Slur" That's the only reason I'm interested in the context of it. I have moved over a half million out of BoA in the last month without any issues, Must be because of my nice Jewish name?
If the accusations are true, they should be taken to task. Since a lot of calls are recorded, it seems this kind of rude behavior would have potentially been captured, and I think the OP should make sure they follow up in filing a proper complaint. All they would need to do is pull the call, listen to it, and I am sure the CSR would be insta-fired.
That is why I find multiple cases of horrible customer service behavior from multiple people all to the same person in a short period of time to be hard to believe. Just because of the way these things are managed and controlled.
So I think the OP is obligated to follow through with the proper complaint. Having racist CSRs around does not benefit anyone, even if you do just want your money and want to move on.
SUCKISSTAPLES said: beethovengirl said: I [and many rate-chasing FWFers] have made plenty of 6-figure deposits and then transfered them to outside institutions soon after. I've never had any issues.
we dont have names that sound like known terrorists or Colombian drug dealers either. I know. My statement was in response to uood8's post regarding suspicion of money laundering due to the large deposit and subsequent external transfers. i.e. I don't think it's the large deposit and the external transfer that's the problem -- it's his name. I suspected this from the beginning, which is why I mentioned the Council on American-Islamic Relations in my first post before theficus revealed that he is indeed Muslim.
aeiouy
Senior Member - 1K
posted: Nov. 6, 2007 @ 10:52p
theficus said: SUCKISSTAPLES is on the right track. Anyway, I decided to make one last call to see if I could speak to a supervisor. The CSR who answered told me:
1.) The decision is final. 2.) There aren't any supervisors I can speak to. 3.) "Bank of America doesn't like people depositing convenience checks." 4.) "Bank of America is not going to help you steal money." 5.) "We don't have an address to give you." 6.) When I asked for an address to send a complaint, I was told "you can't sue us," even though I didn't mention that. She then hung up on me.
I don't know what in the world is wrong with the people in this department. Again, I was polite and simply asked to speak to a supervisor about the matter. When they refused, I asked for an address to send my complaint, which they also refused. The phone number is (818) 291-8649 if anyone is interested.
To make matters worse, all my transactions for the month of November have been returned, including all my credit card payments. I'm also being charged NSF fees and returned payment fees for each of these transactions since each of my accounts appear to be in the negative over $800,000. What a nightmare.
I'm never doing business with Bank of America again and I'm going to pursue this matter legally. I'm nearly 100% certain I'm being profiled because of my name.
Don't take this the wrong way, but do you have an unusual demeanor/phone voice?
I have some friends that speak very loud/aggressively, even in their most passive polite tone.
Something has to be triggering these people to turn on you over and over again, and it is just not clear what it is. It is just odd that you keep having these confrontations yet you are peaceful and polite as you say. It is possible to run into 1 bad apple. The odds are much less that you would run into 3 or 4 people, if you were being polite and straight forward. Even if they could not helop you, must people would at least empathize with you. That person after person would be ultra-rude to you, simply defies reasonableness on any level without you doing something.
SinbadS
Member
posted: Nov. 6, 2007 @ 10:56p
On a related note...
Developing nations, especially in Asia and the Middle East, are aggressively stockpiling some of the largest concentrations of investment money in history. The cash hoards, called sovereign wealth funds, are controlled not by state-run companies or private investors but by governments.
These investment pools are equal to or even bigger than the largest pension and private-equity funds in the United States, and many are highly secretive about their activities. The Abu Dhabi Investment Authority has an estimated $875 billion to invest, while China's first stab at a sovereign wealth fund, which started last month, has $200 billion. The largest private-equity firm has about $90 billion under management.
Sovereign wealth funds have been around for decades. But enriched by the surge in the price of oil, which settled at a record $93.53 yesterday, and the trade gap between the United States and Asia, these funds have grown to gigantic proportions. This has alarmed U.S. politicians and regulators, some of whom held a series of meetings on the topic here this month. Some on Wall Street say the growing prominence of these funds portends a fundamental shift in financing power away from Western nations.
"It's evidence of the emergence of the developing world as an economic superpower and . . . of a shift of economic power away from the United States," said Alex Patelis, head of international economics at Merrill Lynch.
beethovengirl said: uood8 said: Your account was probably flagged for money laundering, which the bank will have nothing to do with if they even suspect something. and by you making a large deposit then transferring funds to outside instutitions is a huge red flad. I [and many rate-chasing FWFers] have made plenty of 6-figure deposits and then transfered them to outside institutions soon after. I've never had any issues.I would have to say I have moved $1m (easily) through my checking account in last 5 years. There was a single one that was almost 1/4 million dollars. It hardly ever sits there for long. No problems beyond inconsitent funds hold policies.
That is Presidential though, not BofA. And I have a nice Irish name (once upon a time that might have had its own issues, but no longer I presume)
I'm sorry to hear you had to go through this, OP. BofA was definitely not my financial institution of choice before this point (though I've had a mortgage & 4-5 CC through them -- though all as result of acquisitions aftere I opened them), and this pretty much seals the conclusion for me. Small thing to you I know, but just want to share that.
theficus said: Also, I want to publicize my situation because I strongly believe I was targeted because of my name. I still don't think this would have happened to me if I had an Anglo-sounding name.
Why don't you just change your name to Alfie Rubinowitz. I like that name.
beethovengirl said: i.e. I don't think it's the large deposit and the external transfer that's the problem -- it's his name. I suspected this from the beginning, which is why I mentioned the Council on American-Islamic Relations in my first post before theficus revealed that he is indeed Muslim.we dont know if hes Muslim or not. I have many friends with Arabic names who are not Muslim.
Its also not a "one or the other" issue - large money movements on a new account do raise risk flags. Certain names also raise flags. Combine the 2 and they dont want you as a customer.
SUCKISSTAPLES said: beethovengirl said: i.e. I don't think it's the large deposit and the external transfer that's the problem -- it's his name. I suspected this from the beginning, which is why I mentioned the Council on American-Islamic Relations in my first post before theficus revealed that he is indeed Muslim.we dont know if hes Muslim or not. I have many friends with Arabic names who are not Muslim.
beethovengirl doesn't realize that she probably made one of the most offensive, stereotyping comments on this board. Ignorance is so entertaining when it comes from those so enlightened.
For all the grief that FNBO was getting, even FNBO did not freeze my accounts when I moved $300K from two accounts within a week. BofA, while generally good, put a hold on a large check even though I have had an account with them for 10+ years.
SUCKISSTAPLES said: beethovengirl said: i.e. I don't think it's the large deposit and the external transfer that's the problem -- it's his name. I suspected this from the beginning, which is why I mentioned the Council on American-Islamic Relations in my first post before theficus revealed that he is indeed Muslim.we dont know if hes Muslim or not. I have many friends with Arabic names who are not Muslim. theficus said that he is Muslim: http://www.fatwallet.com/t/52/778747/11415056#m11415056
SinbadS
Member
posted: Nov. 6, 2007 @ 11:38p
It is funny ... As of March 2007, Citibank is the largest bank in the United States by holdings and its single largest shareholder is Prince Al-Waleed bin Talal of Saudi Arabia, who has a 4.4% stake.
delzy said: SUCKISSTAPLES said: beethovengirl said: i.e. I don't think it's the large deposit and the external transfer that's the problem -- it's his name. I suspected this from the beginning, which is why I mentioned the Council on American-Islamic Relations in my first post before theficus revealed that he is indeed Muslim.we dont know if hes Muslim or not. I have many friends with Arabic names who are not Muslim.
beethovengirl doesn't realize that she probably made one of the most offensive, stereotyping comments on this board. Ignorance is so entertaining when it comes from those so enlightened. WTF are you talking about?! He said that he's Muslim. http://www.fatwallet.com/t/52/778747/11415056#m11415056
I made no offensive, stereotyping comments AT ALL.
theficus said: ... I don't think I would have had this problem if my name was "Ted Stevens" or something more vanilla sounding. What do you guys think? ...
FWIW, Uncle Ted's been having g-men sorting his recyclables for him for several months. Not sure using that particular name in association with electronic money transfers would be such a good idea.
beethovengirl said: delzy said: SUCKISSTAPLES said: beethovengirl said: i.e. I don't think it's the large deposit and the external transfer that's the problem -- it's his name. I suspected this from the beginning, which is why I mentioned the Council on American-Islamic Relations in my first post before theficus revealed that he is indeed Muslim.we dont know if hes Muslim or not. I have many friends with Arabic names who are not Muslim.
beethovengirl doesn't realize that she probably made one of the most offensive, stereotyping comments on this board. Ignorance is so entertaining when it comes from those so enlightened. WTF are you talking about?! He said that he's Muslim. http://www.fatwallet.com/t/52/778747/11415056#m11415056
I made no offensive, stereotyping comments AT ALL.
Sorry, I missed the part where he said he was a muslim. My bad.
delzy said: Sorry, I missed the part where he said he was a muslim. My bad. thank you for apologizing
I, too, know non-muslims with Arabic names. The majority of Arab Americans are Christian, so it's very common.
asdf9876
Happy Member
posted: Nov. 7, 2007 @ 12:17a
delzy said:
beethovengirl doesn't realize that she probably made one of the most offensive, stereotyping comments on this board. Ignorance is so entertaining when it comes from those so enlightened.
The only one entertaining us with their ignorance is delzy who is too ignorant to read before commenting.
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