Amex APPORAMA Big Problem!

Your wife is running her eBay biz as sole proprietor. I would send AMEX her eBay invoice and paypal transcation history as proof. The checks were written out to you for stocking up for the biz, right??!!

"Ya got ta . . . . play it cool boy!!"

from West Side Story

ntyr said: With recent Apporama I opened a few Business accounts in my wife’s name and deposited convenient check of 37k into my name only checking account. AMEX called us back and verified the check with my wife. Everything is fine. A couple days pass by and today we receive call from their supposedly credit analyst in the review department asking bunch of questions about “business” and what we did with the 37k check. She spoke with my wife but she did not have much clue other than the existence of account and the check. So she froze all her accounts and asked her to send business registration, tax ID and other proof. My wife is a seller on eBay and since she does not have a real business per say we cannot submit that info.

How should we process to remove freezes and clear up my wife’s name from this mess? Any advice is appreciated.

If you can't prove you are a business, you should not apply for business credit. It is fraud, regardless of the bad advice some may give you in that regard.

People haphazardly advise people to get business accounts regardless of having a business or not. It is BAD advice.

If your wife legitimately sells things on E-bay (not just once a year), then she is a business and should be able to properly document it. I suspect their talk with your wife where she was completely ignorant about business cards in her name was a big enough red flag that you can not fix this problem easily with them.

ntyr said: So what is the best thing to do? Repay the balance and close the accounts?

Wait until they request for the $37k back. Until then, just reap and enjoy the interest you make from the $37k!

I strongly do not agree with much of the advice in the Business card thread. I think we will see many more threads like this if people blindly follow that thread.

Just bc wife "knows" about the account does not make it OK. I cant go mortgage my parents house by simply telling them "hey im going to go mortgage your house, alright?". OP madeup a fake business, that he doesnt even own or have any control over, then applied for credt for the business using his wifes ID. Just bc he told his wife he was doing it does not make it permissible, even if she said "sure".

SUCKISSTAPLES said: I strongly do not agree with the advice in the Business card thread. I think we will see many more threads like this if people blindly follow that thread.

Just bc wife "knows" about the account does not make it OK. I cant go mortgage my parents house by simply telling them "hey im going to go mortgage your house, alright?". OP madeup a fake business, that he doesnt even own or have any control over. Just bc he told his wife he was doing it does not make it legal, even if she said "sure"

Pretty sure OP's wife "agreed" not just "knows", don't see how that could be fraud as long as the info supplied is accurate.

There is no evidence they OP made up anything about the business (he could have put Sole Prop, $0 income), but it is a possiblity.

I'm sure the same thing has happened with personal cards, accounts frozen due to rapid large increase in utilization. I expect many people here would not say they put the money into a high yeild savings account to if asked by the card issuer. That's what I would say, even if I didn't tell them it wasn't ever going to buy anything for the reseller business.

Since this topic is read anyway...

Most businesses (80%?) within their first five years. In order to fail I would think they probably lose money or make so little it is not worth the time/capital of the owner.

I have an EE degree. I started a "EE consulting" business in my name, with my SSN, as a sole prop.

Last year I took in $40,000 in BT money in the business's name exclusively. I consider that revenue. From that I made about $2K in profits (profit). I list those numbers on my applications as required (some what revenue, profit, or both).

By my logic I'm more successful than 80% of all new small businesses. The IRS sure doesn't seem to have a problem taking my money.

I've made $0 in actual "EE consulting". I ask my buddies but they don't seem to need any consulting done.

Would anyone cosider what I have done to be fraud? If not then it should be trivial for anyone to start their own business.

asdf9876 said: Last year I took in $40,000 in BT money in the business's name exclusively. I consider that revenue. Proceeds from a loan can in no way be considered 'revenue'. Revenue is an income account (sales), credit cards are liabilities. Regardless of what you may want to consider it. Your $2k interest earnings could be considered income or revenue (a question mark, but reasonably justified), and of course with no expenses that same $2k is also profit. But listing BT money itself as revenue is blatant fraud and would not hold up under any type of review.

SUCKISSTAPLES said: opening credit cards in your wifes name is a federal crime
opening business accounts for fake madeup businesses is a 2nd offense

this has nothing to do with an AMEX problem, this is you lying and being greedytax evasion is a 3rd. that's why he can't give them the necessary info.

hoope4 said: meditator said: Greedy. Exploiting the U.S. credit system.

LOL. Because the companies issuing that credit aren't engaging in any exploitation themselves.

And yes, two wrongs do in fact make a right.
Nope, two wrongs don't make it right, three lefts do.

atobias said: It's starting to get annoying seeing people do stupid things like this. All it does is make it harder for legitimate applicants.

Applying for biz credit when you have no real biz seems to be the new trend. .yup, and the newbies are jumping on board and copycatting when they see how easy it is. Its not only going to ruin it for legitimate business owners, its going to ruin it for all the sophisticated FWFers. Especially when they see threads telling them to do it.

SUCKISSTAPLES said:
yup, and the newbies are jumping on board and copycatting when they see how easy it is. Its not only going to ruin it for legitimate business owners, its going to ruin it for all the sophisticated FWFers. Especially when they see threads telling them to do it.

I notice it's also being heavily promoted on the credit/deadbeat boards. These are the same people who get outraged that American Express is doing financial reviews and asking for 4506T to verify income.

If your wife is a legit eBay seller, she should have just answered that she used the cash to stock up on items she sells on eBay (and perhaps greatly expand her selling).

ntyr said: With recent Apporama I opened a few Business accounts in my wife’s name and deposited convenient check of 37k into my name only checking account. AMEX called us back and verified the check with my wife. Everything is fine. A couple days pass by and today we receive call from their supposedly credit analyst in the review department asking bunch of questions about “business” and what we did with the 37k check. She spoke with my wife but she did not have much clue other than the existence of account and the check. So she froze all her accounts and asked her to send business registration, tax ID and other proof. My wife is a seller on eBay and since she does not have a real business per say we cannot submit that info.

How should we process to remove freezes and clear up my wife’s name from this mess? Any advice is appreciated.

Most business apps ask for revenue/income, NOT net profit. stating your gross rental income isnt scheming at all. The credit issuer pulls your credit report and counts any mortgage debt against you when determining your debt load

stating a "net" figure would be like someone stating their takehome pay instead of gross salary. Who does that?

You keep going back to "profit"... business credit apps dont ask you to list profit!

Until they do, listing your net profit isnt the correct figure to use. You dont need to give a cc issuer more detailed information than they ask for (such as detailing your profit margins). The apps ask for revenue or income, and thats the figure you give, IF you are authorized to apply for credit in the business name.

And thats the problem with the OP of this thread - as long as you answer WHAT THEY ASK honestly, you are OK. One of the questions on a cc app asks whether you are an officer/owner of the business authorized to apply for business credit (OP isnt). It asks that you agree to be personally liable (OP isnt, his wife is now liable). If you dont own a business, you dont apply for business credit. If you are not the one who owns the business, you dont apply "for them" (and just bc its your wife, brother or friend and they know you want to do it, and they are OK with it, does not somehow make it right).

^They could care less whether you've got a business or not. If there's a chance they can make money off of you, they'll be all over it. There's just as much chance that someone will miss a payment or carry a balance with a business card as there is with a personal card.

And I think someone else mentioned that these financial reviews are certainly not limited to business credit accounts.

the accounting term income is synonymous to term revenue minus expenses

lhendricks92 said: Exactly.

1) Biz cards are almost always nothing more than glorified personal cards. You can't get biz credit if your personal credit is in the crapper, so that argument is moot.
2) It's very easy to start a legitimate sole proprietor business. All you have to do is register a DBA and you're in business.
3) If you've started a new biz, put $0 rev, 0 years in business on your credit apps.

Fine to complain about OP getting his wife involved, but where's the fraud when it comes to using business credit? And why aren't the old-timers launching their rants in the biz credit thread where we can have a proper discussion?Its all in perception. If you think you have a business, you call it a business, you run it like a business, and you report it like a business (yes, including on taxes as self-employment income), then you have a business and getting a biz card is completely appropriate (we'll disregard arguments regarding various local laws requiring registration, etc).

The OP's use of a biz card (aside from the distinction/issues between him and his wife) for 'their' eBay business is perfect legit. All the OP has to do is send in his (rather his wife's) taxes showing the $XXX in revenue that he listed on the biz card application.

But I'm guessing the revenues were never reported on their taxes..... Because the OP states it is "not a real business per say". Just like the idea that if you treat it like a business it is a business, if you dont treat it as a business it is NOT a business - its a hobby. And they are not called "hobby credit cards" - if it is not a business, then getting biz credit cards based on that hobby is not legit and probably fraudulant.

Getting a biz card in your own name, using $0 revenue and 0 years in business, is abusive and of questionable merits. But it is probably acceptable, as you can operate a business in your own name and you have specifically stated there is no current revenue. However, as SIS has said, I too see this leading to more documentation requests/hoops to jump through to show the business is viabile and has the means to repay, and less access to credit for legit new/low revenue businesses.

That is why I've opened biz credit card accounts with almost every major issuer, and have kept them all open even though I have no intention of using them again. So when the increased scrutiny comes this will hopefully help to show a well-established history of business accounts with flawless repayment activity, and show I am not applying merely to exploit the system (ok, I am, but not in that way - the 0% money from my biz cards are in a biz savings account/CD and reported on my biz taxes )

And most likely biz accounts (namely sole proprietor accounts opened under the owner's SS#) will begin to show up on personal credit reports at some point. They will go the way of the authorized user benefits - use, abuse, and outright exploit the advantage, and it will be taken away.

hoope4 said: My sole proprietorship sells sunshine and happiness. I've been in business for a year, and I've yet to make a sale (despite my rock bottom $0 pricing).

To be a business, you must have a profit motive. If you're not in business to make money -- you're not in business.