SUCKISSTAPLES said:lhendricks92 said:In regards to the OP, I agree that lying about your business and opening cards on behalf of someone else without their permission are bad ideas. (I don't know if that's what actually happened in this case.)

SIS, this is the first time I've heard you express concerns with the business credit strategy. I take your concerns very seriously, which is why I've jumped into this discussion.

Theres no "permission" requirement to make applying for someone else OK. I understand that most people "dont see anytthing wrong with" opening a card for your wife or someone else, if that person says its OK, but that doesnt mean its correct. Go ahead and ask the supervisors at the cc issuers if you dont believe me.

If you have a business, (and that could be something as simple as an eBay business), theres nothing wrong with getting business cards using your honest personal info and your supportable income figures. But most people asking about getting business credit are asking how they can LIE to get it...They make up a fake business name, fake business income, fake business owner. Then when they dont have a DBA, business license, LLC docs, or supportable income to withstand review, they come crying for help (as in this thread).

In the link you posted earlier (http://www.fatwallet.com/t/52/754626/11007606), you said this:

"Applying for credit for someone else without their permission is illegal." That's the only reason I use the word "permission."

OK, sounds like we're all on the same page.

Kids, DON'T LIE ON YOUR APPS.

its not OK for anyone, regardless of their personal credit standing, to make any bogus claims to induce creditors to extend credit.

Its a crime punishable by imprisonment in a federal correctional facility. Its not our "moral" view of what we think is right or wrong. And while there all kinds of illegal ways to make money, FW has made it clear they dont want such discussions in this forum

Not necessarily.

When OP and his wife decide to return to Poland and let AMEX eat the loss, not only is AMEX the victim, we are as well since it will be tougher for us to get business credit

When OPs wife divorces OP, and shes on the hook for this debt, ask her if it was victimless

I have found it pretty clearly spelled out in every business credit card's terms and conditions I have ever looked at that the card is to be used only for business purposes.

For example, from the AMEX SimplyCash Business Credit Card application terms and conditions:

"By submitting this application, I as the Authorizing Officer designated herein and the Company ... REPRESENT THAT THE CARDS WILL BE USED FOR COMMERCIAL OR BUSINESS PURPOSES."

http://www10.americanexpress.com/sif/cda/page/1,1641,27775,00.asp?

SUCKISSTAPLES said:Most business apps ask for revenue/income, NOT net profit. stating your gross rental income isnt scheming at all. The credit issuer pulls your credit report and counts any mortgage debt against you when determining your debt load

stating a "net" figure would be like someone stating their takehome pay instead of gross salary. Who does that?

I know that this is off topic but it's funny SIS-- this exact issue just dawned on me the other day when I was looking at my credit report.

Until a few years ago, none of my income property loans ever reported on my personal credit report because they are all 5 units+
commercial non-recourse loans. But then we bought a duplex and that mortgage does report on our personal credit. I was staring at my credit report and suddenly felt like a dunce, because to creditors it looks as if we owe over a million on our personal residences (instead of the low, under jumbo we've paid down to) I realized that they have no way of knowing that the 2nd property isn't a vacation home. Suddenly I realized that the income from that (positive cash flow) rental property HAD to be added to our household income to give an accurate credit picture Otherwise-- we look way more indebted than we are.

I wish I had read the thread where you pointed this out a while ago.

Back to this thread-- I agree with you that business credit is being abused-- and I hate it too, for legitimate businesses.
But, IMO, greedy lenders are equally to blame. I own a well established, profitable business, so I understand lenders granting me large credit lines. But both of my sons receive unsolicited "pre-approved" offers for business cards every week. One of them owns a small business, the other is at B-School, and recently filed papers for his start-up development firm. I was stunned by the huge lines they were granted. (Both were 100% honest on their apps)

Most of the people who get business cards will probably be excellent customers (they do look at personal credit scores)
But others will screw up.

It happened with mortgages and it will likely happen with biz credit.

It's sad, but true and we read it here first, folks.

ntyr said:With recent Apporama I opened a few Business accounts in my wife’s name and deposited convenient check of 37k into my name only checking account. AMEX called us back and verified the check with my wife. Everything is fine. A couple days pass by and today we receive call from their supposedly credit analyst in the review department asking bunch of questions about “business” and what we did with the 37k check. She spoke with my wife but she did not have much clue other than the existence of account and the check. So she froze all her accounts and asked her to send business registration, tax ID and other proof. My wife is a seller on eBay and since she does not have a real business per say we cannot submit that info.

How should we process to remove freezes and clear up my wife’s name from this mess? Any advice is appreciated.OP, Send in to AMEX proof of what you said on the application. No one told you to lie on the app, and if you applied as a sole proprietorship, and your wife has sold something on eBay, then she is a sole proprietorship, so send in the easy proof. You should not have filled out the application for her, but there is no crime to help her with the applicaition and help her manage her account. I trust people aren't advocating on this forum that credit card advice is illegal. I don't think it will require a lot of documents to prove a claimed $0 revenue.

SUCKISSTAPLES - I have never promoted anyone lie on any application. I have advised countless times to always be honest on your apps. If OP was honest, even if he put $0 revenue and 0 years in business and has some sort of transaction to show, then what is the problem? If AMEX does not like "startup companies" let them deny the application, or at worst, close the credit card. There is nothing more they can or will do so long as the applicant was honest. I have not suggested ANYONE fill out the applications for thier spouse. Re read my post that you linked to earlier. I've done nothing but warn people to be honest and do this with other people, not alone with someone's permission. If they follow that advise, there should not be problems like this.

It sounds like you are blaming me for people who intentionally misinterpret what I say in my posts despite the guidelines and warnings I give? If so, are are you not just as blameworthy for starting the whole AOR thread? Do people ever disreguard your instructions and take that money and spend it, or put it in stocks and loose it all? I feel no guilt to those who purposefully misinterpret what I had advocated. I will furthermore not feel responsible for those who are simplily unorgainized, unintelligent, or for some other reason cannot handle the plans I have discussed. I am not the gatekeeper to what people can read on the internet. I will, however, feel pride in helping some people, like Venturion, who had a very successful business AOR to make extra thousands of dollars by sharing some of the knowledge I have learned off this forum and by making my own deductions. I'm sure you feel the same pride knowing you have helped people make thousands with your AOR posts. I know I'm grateful to you for posting this thread here. Heck, that link is paying for 2 years of my legal education in a 13 month time frame.

LaJollaInvestor said:
. Suddenly I realized that the income from that (positive cash flow) rental property HAD to be added to our household income to give an accurate credit picture Otherwise-- we look way more indebted than we are.
thats correct. Without listing the income, you do yourself a disservice because the mortgage will be counted against you

SUCKISSTAPLES said:LaJollaInvestor said:
. Suddenly I realized that the income from that (positive cash flow) rental property HAD to be added to our household income to give an accurate credit picture Otherwise-- we look way more indebted than we are.
thats correct. Without listing the income, you do yourself a disservice because the mortgage will be counted against you

Yup. Can't believe I missed this. I assume you add it to your other investment income?

Can other real estate investors tell me-- Do 1-4 unit property loans always report on your personal credit report? Logically, they *should* be treated like business credit-- and reported separately.

SUCKISSTAPLES said:The wife didnt do the app, it didnt contain truthful info, she couldnt give AMEXs analyst decent answers, and we are where we are.

I repeat yet again, where do you get the OP was lying on the app? He might have put sole prop, $0 income. Which wouldn't be a lie and sorry that is what is recommened in the business card thread. OP might have lied, but you can't tell from what is posted.

I've done a regular personal card app for my wife, but no wife-o-ramas like I've seen half a dozen times on FW. My wife wouldn't be able to give decent answers either, that doesn't make the application info false.

Otherwise I agree 100% with what you are saying. Be honest. If a card issuer calls and asks what you did with the money, says its sitting in a HYS account (or whatever).

MikeR said "I will, however, feel pride in helping some people, like Venturion, who had a very successful business AOR to make extra thousands of dollars by sharing some of the knowledge I have learned off this forum and by making my own deductions. "

You should be proud. You did an excellent job in the biz credit thread. I'm sure there are other business owners (like me)
who never took advantage of business credit bc they (me) didn't understand the benefits.

I had never even heard of Advanta, for instance. I initially decided to use Biz Credit to make tax time easier (no more sorting through year end personal credit card statements with a highlighter) but, of course, I see all of the other benes
now.