lexus ls 460 lemon car need help

I search and can't find any info on fatwallet.

My dad bought a Lexus ls460 (Not very fatwalletish). Its been in the dealer 4 time repairing the same wind noise. There is a major complain for the wind noise issue. I spoke to one lemon law lawyer, he will take the case if we settle $4,000. A different lawyer said he will take the case to court, but one will have to pay some fees upfront to get the case started. Can anyone direct me toward the right direction? Thanks in advance.

What is a Lemon?
A vehicle that continues to have a defect that substantially impairs its use, value, or safety. Generally, if the car has been repaired 4 or more times for the same Defect within the Warranty Period and the Defect has not been fixed, the car qualifies as a Lemon. All States differ so you should consult the Lemon Law Summary and the State Statutes for your particular State. Note that the warranty period may or may not coincide with the Manufacturer's Warranty.

Do I have a Lemon?
If the paint is peeling, the light switch came out when you pulled on it, the car makes "funny noises" but otherwise drives just fine, or you found 10 things you don't like about your new car but none of them prevent you from driving it, then No, you do not have a Lemon.

If the brakes don't work, the car won't go into reverse gear, the darn thing won't start on cold mornings or hot afternoons, the rear door opens all by itself, the driver's seat wobbles, or the car chugs along at 30 mph when it should be going 50 mph, then Yes, you may have a Lemon. Providing you've given the manufacturer an opportunity to repair the defect.

In most States, 10 different defects during the Warranty Period does not brand the car as a Lemon. In some States, a single defect that might cause Serious Injury makes your car a Lemon if the manufacturer cannot fix the problem within 1 attempt.

You may have a Lemon, but if you do nothing to protect your Consumer Rights, such as documenting your Repairs and allowing the Manufacturer a chance to fix the problem(s), you lose all rights under the various State Warranty Acts.

Do I need a Lawyer?
The answer depends upon which State you Purchased or Registered your car in. In some States and with proper documentation, you simply file a Complaint. In other States, you will need to hire an Attorney.

Who pays the Lawyer?
Only about half of the States allow you to recover Attorney Fees. If your Attorney sues under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, you will be awarded Attorney Fees if you win. Note that an Attorney's Fee is based upon actual time expended rather than being tied to any percentage of the recovery. In some States, you must pay the manufacturer's Attorney Fees if you lose.

Is a Used or Leased Car protected?
It depends upon which State the car was purchased or leased in. Some states include used and leased cars in their Lemon Law statutes. Some states have separate laws for used vehicles. Some states provide protection only for new cars. In some states, even the Attorney General is unable to tell you if a Leased vehicle is covered due to the way the law is phrased and you will be referred to an Attorney for clarification of the law. See the Lemon Law Summary and the State Statutes for your particular State to determine what is covered.

What about Motor Homes and Motorcycles?
Most States cover the drive train portion of Motor Homes (that part which is not used for dwelling purposes). Motorcycles are generally not covered but a few states do include them in their lemon law statutes.

If you have a defective Motorcycle, Motor Home, used car, leased car, or a car used for business purposes and your State Lemon Law does not cover these vehicles, you still have other recourses such as the Uniform Commercial Code and the Federal Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act (providing you were given a written warranty). Consult with an Attorney that specializes in this area.

On the regular ls they replace the front windows; replace some clips, and add more foam insolution. On the L, they just replace clip and add foam. The problem still exist.

Have you tried closing the interior of the sunroof? Noise levels decrease significantly when you have it covered, since it blocks the noise being generated right by your ears.

Noise levels also increase significantly over 55mph due to much more wind resistance. Maybe he can drive 55mph to conserve energy, help the environment, avoid $4000 in legal costs, and get rid of most of his noise.

Let us know if this changes anything.

You know like kilacam19 has pointed out that laws varies greatly by state. Also what is covered under Lemon Law also varies by state.

For Example in CA "Wind Noise" is not covered by the Song-Beverly Consumer Warranty Act (CA Lemon Law) at all as the only defects that are covered under CA law are defects that prohibit you from driving the car like engine, electrical, mechanical, and safety reasons. "Wind Noise" would not be covered at all because it does not impact your ability to use the car. Also "Wind Noise" is subjective judgement which would make your cause for action an up hill battle in a state like Ca which clearly does not even cover that kinda of defect at all.

I have a felling driving a car around a dealer with "Lemon Law" written on it when it clearly not a lemon car in CA could also be considered defamation or slander in the rare event you lost your lawsuit which could open you up to being sued by the dealership for loss of income.

Btw in CA if you have legit claim under the CA "Lemon Law" you don't need an lawyer either. You just request an Arbitration hearing which just requires proof that you gave the dealer "Adequate time and allowed the dealer reasonable amount of tries to repair the car". And on the arbitration form it asked for basic information and proof of your claims and if they fell you gave the dealer adequate opportunity to repair the car then they will set a formal arbitration date with 30 days.

Op,

Many states have an arbitration process geared towards laymen which you can utilize. These are usually better than bringing a lawsuit anyway because it will likely be a lot quicker process.

The 'lemon lawyers' you are consulting likely do not think the manufacturer will offer you a repurchase or a replacement.. and they are probably right. Very few of these lawyers litigate cases, so it comes down to what is negotiatable, and I doubt you will willingly get a repurchase or replacement for wind noise in most states. Whether you could win in litigation/arbitration is highly questionable (all the states require to some extent that the defect complained of is 'substantial'), but if you aren't interested in a couple thousand bucks, then it can't hurt to pursue it.. especially in an arbitration process designed for laymen.. so you can save yourself a fee.

or should have bought a reliable, tried and true USED LS. Great deals on mid90s models.

The new ones are an absolute nightmare and will all be parted out for their $1000+ electronic modules once they get old and start needing expensive repairs

The only thing difficult about the case for the lawyer is that he can't get a huge bunch of atty's fees. What state are you in? What are the lemon laws?

Screw the lawyers and do it yourself.

Perhaps, rather than persuing legal ways, you might want to start by talking to your service manager and explain him the issue and make it clear that you would want a replacement vehicle or money back. I own a ES350 and had issues with it after 5000 miles (transmission got replaced twice, squeaking noise from dashboard, alignment got messed up that couldn't be fixed by Lexus dealer). I talked to the service manager who talked to Lexus corporate and they gave me a new car which is everything I expected out of a Lexus.

btownballer said: My dad threatened to return the car to the dealership through their front window if they didn't get it fixed and supply my mom with a loaner. Magically mom had a car to drive and hers was fixed in record time.

If he did that today, he'd be in jail under both state and federal laws. I think it's know as a terroristic threat.

As long as it still parks itself, then you're all good

our LS460 has excessive wind noise too.
The dealer changed over 30 parts on mine and the noise still exists.
the noise is coming from the side mirror/window seal area.
noise starts are 40mph (or lower, on windy days)

delzy said:
What you guys seem to fail to understand is that the more aerodynamic a car is, the more you hear the non-aerodynamic components. Crack a window and you won't even hear what you're complaining about. Talk about big babies. Changing parts out will never eliminate a design constraint.

What you fail to understand is that if you push the window down a little say 1cm, the car is dead silent (the wind noise dissappears). This tells you that the window seal is not working properly.

I don't get your point on cracking the window open? wouldn't it be louder and what if it's raining?

The more aerodynamic a car is, the less "wind noise" you should hear. Wind noise is directly related to the flow of air.. think about it for a second.. Einstein.

yes, i am a big baby.. r u my daddy? if so, shoot me..i don't wanan contribute to the gene pool

I would contact Lexus Corporate directly. I had an issue with my brakes squeaking and Lexus Corporate took care of it ASAP.

Why didn't you take it to another dealer? Service changes dramatically from Lexus dealer to Lexus dealer.

SUCKISSTAPLES said: or should have bought a reliable, tried and true USED LS. Great deals on mid90s models.

The new ones are an absolute nightmare and will all be parted out for their $1000+ electronic modules once they get old and start needing expensive repairs

I try to talk him into a older version of the 750i, but who am I to tell him how to spend money. At his age 65, I don't think he'll go through many new cars.

Spac3d said: I would contact Lexus Corporate directly. I had an issue with my brakes squeaking and Lexus Corporate took care of it ASAP.

Why didn't you take it to another dealer? Service changes dramatically from Lexus dealer to Lexus dealer.

I did. I took it to three different dealers and also call corporate customer service. Not much help.

codename47 said: The only thing difficult about the case for the lawyer is that he can't get a huge bunch of atty's fees. What state are you in? What are the lemon laws?

Screw the lawyers and do it yourself.

I am in Calif. I am thinking of writing a certify letter. Then go through the arbitration. If I don't like to result, I think I still can go through the lemon law lawyer to seek for damages. I am just not sure I have the time to do it.

Does Lexus guarantee a certain noise level at a certain vehicle speed?

OP: did you Dad buy the Lexus brand-new?

If he bought the Lexus used, did he buy from a Lexus dealer, from another car dealer, or from a private party? Unfortunately, a lot of high-end used cars which sustained flood damage from disasters (hurricanes, floods, tornados) were totaled by insurance companies, only to be fraudulently resold by means of "vehicle title washing".

did you try ductape?

brand new. major wind complain from many unhappy customers.