Do you know the one thing to never say to a customer service rep if you're late on your bill? Do you know how Chase ranks you, and how you're ranked determines whether they help you out in a bind? Do you know the best way to get what you want from customer service? After you read these 10 confessions from a Chase customer service rep, you will.
"HOW WE RANK CARDMEMBERS
There are 3 levels of cardmembers at Chase. They are segregated as BEST, VALUABLE, or NON-PROFIT.
10. BEST cardmembers make up a small minority of the people at Chase. If I talk to 100 people in a day, maybe 5 are best cardmembers. If you're a Best cardmember, pretty much anything you want to gets done. You want a late fee taken off? Done. Don't feel like paying $200 in finance charges? No problem. How do you achieve Best cardmember status? You either have to move a lot of money through the bank, (we can tell if you have a mortgage, car loan, etc thru Chase), or have a high balance that you're paying a good amount of interest on. If you generate enough fee revenue from finance charges, say $100 per month, and you want a late fee taken off, no problem, we'll take $39 off this month to make you happy and make sure that $100 monthly keeps rolling in.
9. VALUABLE cardmembers make up the majority of people we talk to. Valuable basically means you pay your bills on time, and are in general a good customer. You can get a fee waived also, but not nearly as often. I don't mind waiving a late fee for you, but usually only every 6 months. Thats standard, but we can base our judgment on it all the way back to a year. And if I remove a late fee for you, dont think you're getting anything waived in the foreseeable future.
8. NON-PROFIT These are the cardmembers who know what they're doing. They're the group of people that pay their bill off, in full, every month, like clockwork. They don't pay finance charges, and they're never late. They don't go over their credit line, they don't have returned payments, and they earn rewards. Which all amounts to the bank isn't making any money on your account. So if you get a late fee, you have absolutely zero chance of getting it waived. That late fee is revenue for the bank, and it uses it to offset the maintenance on your account. Maintenance includes your statements mailed to you, sending you replacement cards, dealing with customer service, and cashing out rewards point / miles / dollars. For this cardmember, if you threaten to close your account if we don't do what you want, don't be surprised to get an offer to close your account during that phone call. Why? What is the incentive to keep you? I know its pretty cold hearted, but thats exactly how it works. You do a great job on your account, but you can get punished. Hey, I don't make the rules, I just enforce them.
HOW TO GET WHAT YOU WANT FROM CUSTOMER SERVICE
7. I WILL GO TO BAT FOR YOU IF YOU TREAT ME LIKE A HUMAN First and foremost, remember we are people. If you're the type of person who calls up and rants and rave with a "you better do this or else" attitude, honestly, it's just going to turn a service rep off. Remember, we talk to a hundred people a day, 5 days a week. Its a thankless job, and in there somewhere, I'm cursed at, yelled, spoken down to, please God knows what else. Think about it like this....are you more likely to want to help someone treating you like a human being, or someone who is degrading you? It's only natural.
I've waived significant amounts of money off of accounts if I feel its deserved, I've reduced APR's, I've contacted credit bureau's to get your record fixed, I've deferred your payment to next month, I've done a lot of things. But the one constant, I've only done this for people who have been pleasant with me on the phone, and in layman's terms, haven't been a douchebag.
6. STATE WHAT YOU WOULD LIKE DONE AT THE BEGINNING OF THE CALL I understand its human nature to explain why you're payment showed up late, how you're a good customer, this has never happened before, etc, but if you just tell me you want a late fee waived, I'll immediately look at the account and decide if you're eligible. To us, it doesn't matter if you forgot to mail the check, were on vacation, your boss didn't pay you, bottom line, you want a late fee waived, I'm gonna judge you on our ratings system and check to make sure you haven't had other fees waived recently.
5. YOU ARE NOT A UNIQUE SNOWFLAKE I've taken thousands of calls, and I've encountered every possible situation. The earlier you tell me what you would like your end result to be, the earlier you can get your matter resolved. Screaming at me does you know good, and honestly, makes me want to help you less.
COMMON SCENARIOS I ENCOUNTER
4. DON'T SAY "MY PAYMENT WAS LATE BECAUSE I DIDN'T GET MY STATEMENT" Please please, don't tell me this. This is the worst excuse ever. While I dont doubt that some people somehow legitimately didn't get their bill, for the most part, its a lie to cover up the fact you didnt make your payment on time. Hmm, for the past 5 years you've always gotten a statement to the correct address on file, but the one month you're late it didn't show up. Right. Somehow, whenever the car payment or the mortgage is due, people never forget that, even without a paper reminder.
3. WATCH YOUR CREDIT LIMIT Going overlimit- Its your responsibility to watch out where your credit line is. If you really don't ever wanna go over your credit line, but a block on it. We do let cards go over a little bit, just in case you're in a situation where you really need it. Imagine these scenarios. Imagine you're in a restaurant, and you go to pay the bill. Would you rather be declined and be embarrassed in front of your friends and family, or have it go through and pay the $39 fee. Or, imagine you're stuck on the side of the road and need a tow truck. Do you want the charge to go through so you can get out of the cold, or do you want it declined and sit there shivering for hours? We'll allow the card to go over, but usually not more than $100.
2. READ YOUR CONTRACT Not being aware of fees, or APR's- Everything on your card is agreed upon when you accept the card. The Cardmember Agreement basically states that the bank has the right to change your limit at any time, change your apr, or close your account, no reason needed. That agreement basically leaves the bank holding all the cards. The one constant I see is people never ever read the agreement, then are surprised by things later. Please, read it, or at least call customer service and ask any questions you need answered.
1. IF YOU DON'T NEED IT, DON'T BUY IT The only other advice I have for people with credit cards....get ahold of your spending. I can't tell you how many people I see every day who are absolutely drowning in debt. I get so many people making minimum payments, never getting ahead on their balance, or people just playing the balance transfer game to move their balance to a lower rate card, but they've moved that balance 10 times and it's still not paid off. If you use credit cards wisely, you can make the bank work for you, but instead, we see banks with profits in the billions of dollars every year."
The Chase customer service rep whose 10 Confessions we posted last week has been reading your comments and has responded to some of your questions. The rep also offers five more tips that they forgot to include in their original post.
"To all the Readers of Consumerist-
I'd like to thank you all for taking the time to read the Chase Confessions, I've kept an eye on it and would like to respond to some of the questions left for me in the comments section.
RANDOTHEKING: "Your logic on #4 is dumb and most people don't realize that stating "I didn't get my statement" is an automatic fix for your account. At Macy's if you stated that then your late fee and finance charge were removed as legit no questions asked. You have to factor in that your statements go through a 3rd party called the USPS and they lose shit all the time."
That might be the policy at Macy's, but not at Chase. If you state that you didn't receive statement, I'll confirm your address, and if it's right, I can offer to either send you another copy in the mail. I can also fax one to your home, office, or local branch. I can also get you online and talk you through signing up online and viewing your statement there. No doubt, the USPS loses a lot of mail. But if that's how you choose to receive your statement, it can be lost, like I said I don't doubt some people didn't receive it. But I have to take into account that you know you have a credit card, you're in possession of the banks money, and you know it needs to be paid back. One thing I would suggest, mark it on your calender, set a reminder in your cell phone, or if you just kinda 'feel' the bill is coming due, just call customer service, we have a ton of options to get your statement to you. Also, if you haven't gotten your statement, and need to make a payment before it will be late, let us know, in most cases we'll gladly waive the fee for you to make a payment over the phone, as long as it's not habitual.
ECHODORK: "So, this is basically the same as most of the other call center confessions, I suppose. Don't yell at me, and unless you're a profitable customer, don't expect much. Fantastic."
Not really. You can yell at me if you want to, but obviously, it would make me less eager to resolve your issue. And, I try to help everyone out best I can, but keep in mind, I have to follow rules and guidelines set by Chase. I have a lot of leeway and discretion with those guidelines to do things on your account, but don't be surprised if you encounter what many in the customer service industry call 'the asshole fee'. That would be not getting things waived, or doing the bare minimum to help you out.
PUBLIC ENEMY #1: "If the CSR is reading these comments, how do I get Chase Freedom to stop pestering me about their buyer protection program? I'm not interested, and I get a stupid letter about every two weeks and/or a phone call about it."
What you do is, call the customer service line, and ask the Rep to exclude you from all marketing or solicitations. We'll remove you from all mailing lists, all telemarketing, all special offers, emails, everything. Takes about 2 minutes and you're all set.
"DALLASDMD: "8. NON-PROFIT" What a load of BS. The bank is most definitely making money off your account. Why would they keep you as a customer if they were not? They are not obligated to keep you. The fact is the bank is making money each time you make a transaction. Those fees each business pays to accept credit cards goes to VISA/MC and to your bank. If I am not profitable, then why is Chase sending me post cards with reminders of my rewards plan and lists of merchants where I can get special deals if I use my Chase card?
The majority of those transaction fees go to Visa and MasterCard. We do get a small cut of it, I don't know exactly how much. But usually it's not enough to offset the other things on the account, especially if you just have a balance transfer amount on the card, and aren't using it. I mean, if you drop 30k every month, then it would be enough, but other people spending 2k or 3k it wouldn't be.
CMDR.SASS: ""I WILL GO TO BAT FOR YOU IF YOU TREAT ME LIKE A HUMAN" -I will continue to treat you like the faceless, interchangeable cog in the Chase machine that you are because "YOU ARE NOT A UNIQUE SNOWFLAKE"
Fair enough. Just expect the same obviously. To me, most people, you'll just be a number, some guy I talk to once and that's it.
MGYQMB: ""We do let cards go over a little bit, just in case you're in a situation where you really need it. Imagine these scenarios. Imagine you're in a restaurant, and you go to pay the bill. Would you rather be declined and be embarrassed in front of your friends and family, or have it go through and pay the $39 fee."
This is ridiculous. Of course I want it to decline, as I DON'T HAVE THE MONEY. This is the same argument for overdraft fees, which turns 3 $5 purchases into a -$100 nightmare."
While you might want it to decline, the other 1000 people I've encountered in this situation have screamed at me demanding what I would do to compensate them for the embarrassment they've had to endure. I mean, the restaurant is just an example. I've had people standing in line at Wal-Mart be declined, at the post office sending a package, paying for some other item in a line somewhere that declined the card and left them hot and bothered looking for other means of payment while people looked on. To me, if putting some food on your credit card is going to get you declined, you should re-think your spending habits and maybe not go out to eat. But, if you want to make certain you won't go over your credit line, just give us a call and we'll put an Overlimit Block on your account. That way, you can be certain you wont incur the $39 fee for making that purchase.
TODDKRAVOS: "I guess the most important rule to CSRs is STILL NOT BEING TAUGHT/TRAINED: Retain the customer at any expense to prevent negative and long lasting ill effects against our brand. In the age of the internet, customer satisfaction and retention are extremely important these days. Boy am I glad I don't use Credit Cards, I'd lose my patience real quick with a CSR like this."
This may come as a surprise, but remember those 'Non-profit' cardmembers we've talked about. Well, if something comes up, we are advised to encourage you to close the account. That's why the threat of "I'll transfer my balance elsewhere" might be met with the Rep offering to close the account during that phone call. Not something I like to do often, but part of the job. As far as losing a customer, to be honest, if I lose you, I gain somebody else. The credit card industry is one big revolving door. There is some other person on the phone right now, at Bank of America, at Citi, at "Name Big Bank Here" telling one of their Reps the exact same thing, that they're leaving. And where will that person go..? Probably to Chase. People transfer their balance out all the time, in fact, every Rep in the call center probably averages over $600k in balance transfers per month. Unfortunately, with all the big banks, most of you named Average Joe Consumer, are treated like like a number. And I don't think you'd lose your patience with me, I'm actually one of the better Reps, by that meaning I know what I'm doing, I give the best advice possible, and, as an added bonus, I speak clear and fluent English.
VASTRIGHTWING: "I always love the response, "we're not making ANY money on you." as if this is an excuse for bad service and a way to make me feel guilty. My thinking is, if they are not making any money on me, it's their problem, not mine. 99% of the time they lie. The other 1% of the time, yes, they didn't make any money on me this time, but they are on most everyone else. Please let me shed a tear for the bank. Paleeeeesssssseeeeee!"
You're right, and it's not excuse for bad service, and I don't try to make you feel guilty either. It's just the facts.
Other than that, some other things I wanted to mention in the first post but forgot to put in..
1. If I say no to your request, ask for a supervisor. My mind is not gonna change if you argue with me. 2. You have to verbally state your request. I'm not allowed to just waive fees, even if you and I both know that's why you called. 3. Same thing with asking for a supervisor. You have to ask, I can't just transfer you, even if it would make both of us happier. 4. If you really want to voice a concern, write or email our executive office. Yelling at me about is gonna do nothing. I'm not the one in the boardroom making all these rules and regulations. 5. If you don't want a late fee, don't be late. One thing I always tell people, your due date is not the only day you can make the payment. You're allowed to make it before that.
I don't know how fees on credit cards are assigned (i.e how much goes to Visa vs. the issuing bank, etc), but I can't see how someone who puts >50K a year on a credit card and pays his balance in full does NOT bring any profit to that bank. I am definetly a non-profit customer based on this definition, and I have gotten late fees removed several times over the years.
Not if you are racking up several thousand in purchases each month
beall
Member
posted: Jan. 4, 2008 @ 4:25p
I made a mistake with the bank account number when I set up the online payment for the Chase card. My first month payment was returned. They slapped a $39 returned payment fee on my account.
I called them and explained the situation. The service rep was very helpful, corrected the error for me, and waived the fee.
Maybe I was too new to them, so they hadn't get a chance to profile me as NON-PROFIT. But still, I think being nice and patient to a service rep, from any company, goes a long way to make it a better day for both of us.
ArbolLoco
Tired Member
posted: Jan. 4, 2008 @ 4:26p
bad107 said: Not if you are racking up several thousand in purchases each monthI was putting $10k/mo on my Chase Freedom card and they still treated me like a "Non-Profit".
I guess if you are financially responsible your are hated by banks, kinda a catch22
Corndogg
Senior Member
posted: Jan. 4, 2008 @ 5:37p
ArbolLoco said: bad107 said: Not if you are racking up several thousand in purchases each monthI was putting $10k/mo on my Chase Freedom card and they still treated me like a "Non-Profit".
But the key question is did you pay it all off on time without going over limit or did you incur finance charges? It doesn't seem to matter much how much you charge to your card if you pay it off every month, they like to see that you are actually paying them money.
To FWF members they probably are working to develop a fourth category "Costly and Needy". What kind of people take up our time to dance credit lines all over the place, take advatage of our balance transfer money, and worse than not paying us a dime seem to know all the ways to get signup bonuses, free gifts, and Cash Back. We are the scurge of the credit industry! I love it
jerry2003
Happy Member
posted: Jan. 4, 2008 @ 5:50p
number 4 is a bit stretchy. car payment and mortgage are fixed payment each month, so one can setup auto payment. but credit card bill varies each month, and also the bill close date changes slightly over time (which could amount to significant shift after many billing cycles). sure one can setup auto payments from the credit card side, but there are lessons on this forum not to do so. also, I would like to review my statement before I sending the money and the paper bill is a reminder to review it and send my check. So may be I was on time for 5 years, but the one missing bill can be the exact reason why I am late this month. Why it is a lie? and in fact, in the past, I had exactly this kind of situation with Discover before. I did not end up with late payment, because I have a table of all bills due and check them off when paid.
kronus
Ancient Member
posted: Jan. 4, 2008 @ 6:25p
ArbolLoco said: bad107 said: Not if you are racking up several thousand in purchases each monthI was putting $10k/mo on my Chase Freedom card and they still treated me like a "Non-Profit".That means about $2400 in processing fees for them at 2% + per tx fee on 120k. I'm pretty sure it doesn't cost them anywhere close to that to maintain your account, even when factoring in a rewards program. I guess it's just you being rude to the csr or Chase being Chase
Depending on what avr % of the $10,000 a month was getting the 3% CashBack, they could be losing money on him.
I also agree no. 4 is sketchy. Mail is lost all the time and that seems perfectly reasonable someone would forget because the bill reminder got lost. The problem is most people are either lying or inadvertently threw it out, so they don't believe anyone who says that.
ArbolLoco
Tired Member
posted: Jan. 4, 2008 @ 6:33p
Corndogg said: ArbolLoco said: bad107 said: Not if you are racking up several thousand in purchases each monthI was putting $10k/mo on my Chase Freedom card and they still treated me like a "Non-Profit".
But the key question is did you pay it all off on time without going over limit or did you incur finance charges? It doesn't seem to matter much how much you charge to your card if you pay it off every month, they like to see that you are actually paying them money.
To FWF members they probably are working to develop a fourth category "Costly and Needy". What kind of people take up our time to dance credit lines all over the place, take advatage of our balance transfer money, and worse than not paying us a dime seem to know all the ways to get signup bonuses, free gifts, and Cash Back. We are the scurge of the credit industry! I love it I missed a payment by a few days like three years ago when I was trekking through the Cambodian jungle looking for Colonel Kurtz... and my APR has been astronomical every since... maybe 1-2 points less every year. called their "executive customer service" number last week but the bish never called me back.
I agree with Jerry on #4 of the "don't try to tell me this" list. Mail does get misdirected/lost. Less than 1% of the time, but sometimes.
I have one home and 20 credit cards. If I had a mortgage, I'd notice that I hadn't paid that this month before I'd notice that one of my CC statements was missing.
kronus said: ArbolLoco said: bad107 said: Not if you are racking up several thousand in purchases each monthI was putting $10k/mo on my Chase Freedom card and they still treated me like a "Non-Profit".That means about $2400 in processing fees for them at 2% + per tx fee on 120k. I'm pretty sure it doesn't cost them anywhere close to that to maintain your account, even when factoring in a rewards program. I guess it's just you being rude to the csr or Chase being Chase
It doesn't break down as cleanly as that.
The % fee that the merchant pays (a/k/a the interchange fee) is split by 1) the transaction processor that transmits the data from the POS to the credit card company (Ex. Visa), 2) the credit card company (Visa), and the issuing bank (Chase).
This is a very simplistic explanation, and as I understand it, the fees and splits vary (sometimes greatly) depending on the processed volume of the merchant. I think that the majority of the fees actually goes to the processors and the credit card companies whereas the issuing banks rely mostly on the interest and fees.
dude8404
Ancient Member
posted: Jan. 4, 2008 @ 8:22p
#4 "Hmm, for the past 5 years you've always gotten a statement to the correct address on file, but the one month you're late it didn't show up."
Uhhhhh, maybe the one month it's late is caused by the fact the statement didn't show up. I know my cc statement got lost one in the mail before, luckily I check my accounts online everyweek.
Ehhh, I wonder how AMEX gets figured into all of this. Their charge cards require you to pay in full every month AND they have no preset spending limits (on some cards).
I would much rather be "embarassed in front of friends and family" by having the card denied rather than pay a $39 late fee. I have other cards I can whip out. And in emergency situations, I'd prefer to have to make a phone call to the card company and asking them to let it go over than have it go over everytime.
And funny...I've tried putting blocks on the card, they just won't do it. It removes a revenue stream for them (not that I've ever gone over, but it's the principal of the matter).
ArbolLoco said: 3. WATCH YOUR CREDIT LIMIT Going overlimit- Its your responsibility to watch out where your credit line is. If you really don't ever wanna go over your credit line, but a block on it. We do let cards go over a little bit, just in case you're in a situation where you really need it. Imagine these scenarios. Imagine you're in a restaurant, and you go to pay the bill. Would you rather be declined and be embarrassed in front of your friends and family, or have it go through and pay the $39 fee. Or, imagine you're stuck on the side of the road and need a tow truck. Do you want the charge to go through so you can get out of the cold, or do you want it declined and sit there shivering for hours? We'll allow the card to go over, but usually not more than $100.
All AMEX charge cards have annual fees. Only some of their credit cards (which let you revolve) have no annual fee.
Also, the percent of the transaction that AMEX gets is higher than Mastercard and Visa. And since most AMEX cards are issued by AMEX, they get to keep the entire commission versus MC/VS. which has to share some with the issuing bank and processing bank.
bravebiffy said: Ehhh, I wonder how AMEX gets figured into all of this. Their charge cards require you to pay in full every month AND they have no preset spending limits (on some cards).
So I might be getting something for nothing?
brianbrianbrian
Senior Member
posted: Jan. 4, 2008 @ 9:59p
slc39 said:
Also, the percent of the transaction that AMEX gets is higher than Mastercard and Visa.
This is why most places just dont accept AMEX. When I worked in retail they wanted 4% versus MC/V who wanted 3%. Our store decided to stop carrying it.
ArbolLoco said: 8. NON-PROFIT These are the cardmembers who know what they're doing. They're the group of people that pay their bill off, in full, every month, like clockwork. They don't pay finance charges, and they're never late. They don't go over their credit line, they don't have returned payments, and they earn rewards. Which all amounts to the bank isn't making any money on your account. So if you get a late fee, you have absolutely zero chance of getting it waived. That late fee is revenue for the bank, and it uses it to offset the maintenance on your account. Maintenance includes your statements mailed to you, sending you replacement cards, dealing with customer service, and cashing out rewards point / miles / dollars. For this cardmember, if you threaten to close your account if we don't do what you want, don't be surprised to get an offer to close your account during that phone call. Why? What is the incentive to keep you? I know its pretty cold hearted, but thats exactly how it works. You do a great job on your account, but you can get punished. Hey, I don't make the rules, I just enforce them.
That last part is kinda surprising to me. I mean, I've never had a late fee, gone over credit limit, had a payment returned, etc ... and pay full balance monthly, pay off 0% BT offers two weeks before confirmed date, etc. At the same time, I've milked the CC offers for a good $1000-$3000/yr in the last 5 years or so without giving back a dime in return. So I figure that I'm probably not in the most profitable customer category. Yet, I've more or less always been passed to retention or being offers some incentive to keep accounts open when calling to close or consolidate balance.
Example: I got the 50k points AMEX offer this year. Used the points, then called to close since I didn't want to pay the annual fee. I was about 6 month from that renewal fee and when called to cancel, I was offered another 6500 points to keep the account open. No problem, used most of those points and then called again. Was offered 2500 points this time which I also used up. And still closed the card as planned. So in my experience it's YMMV on retention even for "bad" customers. I think especially in early relationships with a CC company, they tend to give you retention offers just because it costs money (initial offers) to get a new customer. So even if all they've done in 6 months or so was to collect their sign up bonus, they want to keep you a bit longer to give you a chance to become profitable. That's my interpretation at least.
gerardkw2015
Member
posted: Jan. 5, 2008 @ 12:35a
Shandril said: That last part is kinda surprising to me.
I agree. I have never paid interest on any Chase credit card, nor gone over the limit. I have received nothing less than the best customer service whenever dealing with any sort of problem - mostly receiving promotional sign-up bonuses that were found here in FWF...
While I trust that this CSR is telling what they perceive to be Chase's reasoning why banks prefer a certain demographic to another, I doubt the CSRs would have all the information behind the ratings. I honestly cannot imagine a bank wanting to deny credit lines to financially responsible individuals, it would hurt their overall credit rating (if all the unsecured debt the bank held was in the hands of people who incur late fees and over-the-limit fees).
Does a restaurant trust their prized, money-making recipe to the line cook? Not if it wants to stay on top, and similarly I doubt that a huge bank such as Chase would trust their rating system to a CSR.
mikeres
Senior Member - 1K
posted: Jan. 5, 2008 @ 1:08a
bravebiffy said: Ehhh, I wonder how AMEX gets figured into all of this. Their charge cards require you to pay in full every month AND they have no preset spending limits (on some cards).
So I might be getting something for nothing?AM3X and all other CC have spending limits - even if they don't tell you what they are. It doesn't matter if you're Bill Gates or Warren Buffet. Your spending limits may be very high, your spending limits may not be cast in concrete, your spending limits might not be known or declared to you, but there are limits nonetheless.
Once, I tried out the paperless billing and I didn't receive my payment notification by email. I was charged a late fee and I had to explain my situation to the CSR because I had missed a payment a few months ago from having to relocate for my new job. She made it really clear to me that the fee would be waived for one-time only. Whatever, I don't like Citi anyways.
adityanm
Happy Member
posted: Jan. 5, 2008 @ 1:42a
qcumber98 said: I didn't receive my payment notification by email.
I know my billing dates and always keep checking all my bills online. It is a lame excuse that you did not get a mail.
I am a non-profit customer to my now 5 credit cards. I pay each card off to zero 2 to 4 times a month. The only reason the limit is 4, is because that is all they'll allow with online payments. At least the cards I have. The reward cards are gold, because I get 1% on one card and 3% on the other and I put everything possible on them from cable payments to all restaurant bills, gas and supermarket purchases. Credit cards and rewards are a game. If you're in control, you can make money on every purchase you make and get checks for $100, $200, $250+ in the mail. I have always viewed credit cards as games, because their goal is to offer me all this money, tens of thousands of dollars to buy whatever I want and sell me on the idea of making affordable monthly payments at 17% interest. My goal is to give them as little money as possible and to get them to pay me for every purchase I make, every meal I eat and every drop of gas I put in my car. I want 100's of dollars mailed to me and I want free airline tickets and free goodies...but mostly, I want the cash. The people who yell about how credit cards are ripping them off and all the horrible fees are not playing the game right.
2weeks
Senior Member
posted: Jan. 5, 2008 @ 3:26a
Uhhhhh, maybe the one month it's late is caused by the fact the statement didn't show up. #4 You guys are missing the point. You are a liar, because they think so.
#7 It's hard to be polite when you're being mistreated. I've missed payments before, because their system messed up, or I was given incorrect info by a .....CSR. It's always beg, beg, beg then they'll give you a "one time" courtesy late. Thanks to FW you already know they are messing up a lot of accounts. But when you call, the CSR pretends like you're trying to pull something.
"No preset spending limit" isn't quite accurate. You charges would not be approved if the pattern is exceedingly not the usual one, for example. Also, nowadays you can convert charge cards into credit cards by signing up for "pay over time" or whatever they call it. The way it works on my accounts is I have to pay in full if charges are less than $300. If charges are more than $300, I have an option to pay only a "minimum payment" and carry a balance. AMEX charges higher % in transaction fees, AFAIK.
Good article though. I once did waive a late fee, with AMEX no less - for the #4 reason. I simply didn't get the statement and didn't look online. The bill was something like $2.xx, noticed it about a week after the payment was due, called, had it waived, and paid off instantly online.
2weeks> You're missing the point with #7. When you're talking to a CSR, HE or SHE did NOT screw up - the system may well have though. So you talk politely to them because it's not their fault and they only go by the (incorrect) information computer presents to them about your account.
bravebiffy said: Ehhh, I wonder how AMEX gets figured into all of this. Their charge cards require you to pay in full every month AND they have no preset spending limits (on some cards).
dude you must be a newb; you could pay over time on AMEX charge cards long time ago like you said; before the Optima brand was even introduced. You just paid the normal amount and the selected to put the rest of the balance on your line (18%+) and go. i'm talking like 20-25 years ago from what i remember.
ArbolLoco said: 6. STATE WHAT YOU WOULD LIKE DONE AT THE BEGINNING OF THE CALL I understand its human nature to explain why you're payment showed up late, [/L]
sfvera said: I don't know how fees on credit cards are assigned (i.e how much goes to Visa vs. the issuing bank, etc), but I can't see how someone who puts >50K a year on a credit card and pays his balance in full does NOT bring any profit to that bank. I am definetly a non-profit customer based on this definition, and I have gotten late fees removed several times over the years.Exactly what I was going to say. I've got almost $100K of Chase's money at 0% for more than 12 months now, and pay my other balances in full, have only enough in my checking account to pay my bills, etc....and I've gotten lots of overdraft / late payment / over limit fees waived during that time.
A customer who avoids finance charges is not automatically a loss for the credit company because of merchant fees -- just a less profitable customer. Still a good idea to keep them on the books.
A FWf customer who uses $100k's of company money for free year after year IS a poor customer for the company. I just think we fly under their radar, and I keep my fingers crossed it will stay that way.
I agree that the 0% customers are not profitable, but I am sure the card companies have some customers pay the 0% late, or add charges or do not pay the 0% off in time to avoid interest, etc...
So today someone is no profit, tomorrow they are 30% interest profit.
fattie123
Senior Member
posted: Jan. 5, 2008 @ 10:12a
Shandril said: ArbolLoco said: 8. NON-PROFIT These are the cardmembers who know what they're doing. They're the group of people that pay their bill off, in full, every month, like clockwork. They don't pay finance charges, and they're never late. They don't go over their credit line, they don't have returned payments, and they earn rewards. Which all amounts to the bank isn't making any money on your account. So if you get a late fee, you have absolutely zero chance of getting it waived. That late fee is revenue for the bank, and it uses it to offset the maintenance on your account. Maintenance includes your statements mailed to you, sending you replacement cards, dealing with customer service, and cashing out rewards point / miles / dollars. For this cardmember, if you threaten to close your account if we don't do what you want, don't be surprised to get an offer to close your account during that phone call. Why? What is the incentive to keep you? I know its pretty cold hearted, but thats exactly how it works. You do a great job on your account, but you can get punished. Hey, I don't make the rules, I just enforce them.
That last part is kinda surprising to me. I mean, I've never had a late fee, gone over credit limit, had a payment returned, etc ... and pay full balance monthly, pay off 0% BT offers two weeks before confirmed date, etc. At the same time, I've milked the CC offers for a good $1000-$3000/yr in the last 5 years or so without giving back a dime in return. So I figure that I'm probably not in the most profitable customer category. Yet, I've more or less always been passed to retention or being offers some incentive to keep accounts open when calling to close or consolidate balance.
Example: I got the 50k points AMEX offer this year. Used the points, then called to close since I didn't want to pay the annual fee. I was about 6 month from that renewal fee and when called to cancel, I was offered another 6500 points to keep the account open. No problem, used most of those points and then called again. Was offered 2500 points this time which I also used up. And still closed the card as planned. So in my experience it's YMMV on retention even for "bad" customers. I think especially in early relationships with a CC company, they tend to give you retention offers just because it costs money (initial offers) to get a new customer. So even if all they've done in 6 months or so was to collect their sign up bonus, they want to keep you a bit longer to give you a chance to become profitable. That's my interpretation at least.
the AMEX signup bonus and retention credits you talked about paid for all the materials on the re-roof job on my house, with another 1k gift cards to spare, i am sure they lose money because i hardly used them cards, i don't know why they still want to keep me as a non-profitable customer
dodgeman007
Senior Member
posted: Jan. 5, 2008 @ 10:43a
sfvera said: I don't know how fees on credit cards are assigned (i.e how much goes to Visa vs. the issuing bank, etc), but I can't see how someone who puts >50K a year on a credit card and pays his balance in full does NOT bring any profit to that bank. I am definetly a non-profit customer based on this definition, and I have gotten late fees removed several times over the years.
interchange fee is a very small portion of a banks income usually less than 10% so a pay in full customer is a worthless customer to a bank. someone who revolves a balance makes the bank so much more money than you ever will. interchange is less than 1% and it goes between visa the merchant bank, and chase.
I have chase account at 0% BT APR thanks to my recent App-O-Rama's but even more wonderful was the auto payments that chase offers. Did anyone have a problem with the autopay not debiting your bank accounts and you ending up in late fees?
dodgeman007
Senior Member
posted: Jan. 5, 2008 @ 10:45a
EricGo07 said: A customer who avoids finance charges is not automatically a loss for the credit company because of merchant fees -- just a less profitable customer. Still a good idea to keep them on the books.
A FWf customer who uses $100k's of company money for free year after year IS a poor customer for the company. I just think we fly under their radar, and I keep my fingers crossed it will stay that way.
your not flying under anyones "radar" wake up and come back to the real world. and you also have to look at the costs you cause, just having an acct open costs money stmts cost money phone calls are very very expensive, ever used their website. disputes everything goes into how valuable you are.
dodgeman007
Senior Member
posted: Jan. 5, 2008 @ 10:50a
qcumber98 said: Once, I tried out the paperless billing and I didn't receive my payment notification by email. I was charged a late fee and I had to explain my situation to the CSR because I had missed a payment a few months ago from having to relocate for my new job. She made it really clear to me that the fee would be waived for one-time only. Whatever, I don't like Citi anyways.
they dont like dumb people like that either, you did it you even admited to changing it. its your fault they shouldn't have waived the fee, your online set up your damn pmt in advance lazy.
Skipping 65 Messages...
thok
Tired Member
posted: Apr. 22, 2008 @ 10:31p
madshana said: AMEX told me that the real payment due date is 30 days after the statement closes on charge cards. They said I can ignore what the web site or statement says. Since charge cards require the balance to be paid in full they allow more time to make the payment. I have been doing this since they told me and haven't experienced any fees or negative consequences.
Yeah, that confused me about my gold card at first, too. The "due" date on the statement is usually two weeks after the statement closes, which ends up being about a week after I get the bill. The real due date is the close of the following statement period, however.
I still usually mail it in by the date printed on the statement, but I don't fret about it.
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