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tolamapS said:

First of all, congratulations.

Second, about all 4 disappearing as a result of 1 soft inquiry. I explained earlier that there is a block structure.

Suppose that your TU file has room for 100 inquiries in 25 blocks, 4 inquiries per block.

Suppose all 25 blocks are full. And a soft inquiry comes. The system chooses 1 block to kick out of the file system. If that block happens to hold 4 hard inquiries, all hards will be gone.

In that same scenario, if you have more hard inquiries, then even if those hard inquiries came on the same day as the previous 4, you might need 4 additional softs before any of them go away. In other words, your next 3 softs are falling into empty available slots.

The recipe that kicks of existing inquiries to make room (eviction policy) is probably FIFO, but there might be priority given to some categories.

Anyway, the moral of the story is: if you flood enough softs, hards will be removed. It is just too difficult to model the exact order and timing of the removals. That's all.

there are older soft pulls that remain.: do you mind sharing what softs are these, i.e. source and date? Thanks.


I guess your explanation makes sense but it is in total contrast to how my first AOR bumped off (1:1 bump). It also took much longer. On the dates.. Using EQ gold you can see the dates of all of the pulls and my AOR was 10/19 but I still have soft pulls that show up from 10-11, 8-24 etc. These were only single pulls.
The only soft pulls that are being bumped off right now are the NC Identity protect from between 10-19 and my next hard pull of 10-28.

dmlavigne1 said: tolamapS said:

First of all, congratulations.

Second, about all 4 disappearing as a result of 1 soft inquiry. I explained earlier that there is a block structure.

Suppose that your TU file has room for 100 inquiries in 25 blocks, 4 inquiries per block.

Suppose all 25 blocks are full. And a soft inquiry comes. The system chooses 1 block to kick out of the file system. If that block happens to hold 4 hard inquiries, all hards will be gone.

In that same scenario, if you have more hard inquiries, then even if those hard inquiries came on the same day as the previous 4, you might need 4 additional softs before any of them go away. In other words, your next 3 softs are falling into empty available slots.

The recipe that kicks of existing inquiries to make room (eviction policy) is probably FIFO, but there might be priority given to some categories.

Anyway, the moral of the story is: if you flood enough softs, hards will be removed. It is just too difficult to model the exact order and timing of the removals. That's all.

there are older soft pulls that remain.: do you mind sharing what softs are these, i.e. source and date? Thanks.


I guess your explanation makes sense but it is in total contrast to how my first AOR bumped off (1:1 bump). It also took much longer. On the dates.. Using EQ gold you can see the dates of all of the pulls and my AOR was 10/19 but I still have soft pulls that show up from 10-11, 8-24 etc. These were only single pulls.
The only soft pulls that are being bumped off right now are the NC Identity protect from between 10-19 and my next hard pull of 10-28.


So the ones that are still showing, are these REAL account review inquiries (i.e., not soft inquiries initiated by you)? I believe those do not get bumped off on TU.

I am talking about soft pulls on Equifax, not TU.

The EQ total stack is holding at 98 and I am waiting for the last INQ to fall off. The stack behavior is kind of strange. I noticed on a day where I had a hard pull and a soft pull the soft pull falls off first. I must note that the soft pulls only fall off on the issuers that seem to have a lot of soft pulls (like NC).

There are still 5 single soft pulls from different vendors that are older than ones that are being bumped off. I wonder if the SP bump excludes single pulls vendors?

My last pull will come off in a couple of days and I can test the single pull vendor theory because I have a 2 pull soft pull from Treasury bank (CountryWide I think) and one of the softs is dated the same as the hard. I will be interested to see if that soft falls.

The fact that older soft pulls are staying explains why no one could get a good finite number on when bumpage occurs.

dmlavigne1 said: I just pulled like a mad man until the inquiries fell off
Aren't you glad that's the only thing that fell off after so much pulling?

Is there a way to view your EQ soft inquires?

ShaneM said: Is there a way to view your EQ soft inquires?By the way, I did try www.Equifax.com/fcra which worked for soft inquires based on a credit denial, but is there any way to do it without getting denied credit first?

Did you read the first post in this thread? Equifax gold allows it but it is useless for bumpage.

dmlavigne1 said: Did you read the first post in this thread? Equifax gold allows it but it is useless for bumpage.


From what I've read I thought EQ gold would actually stop B*. It seems they take care of your credit report as part of the service.

I don't know if thats right but I canceled it anyway, just to be safe.

14 from Experian? that is weird. I went through most of the AOR posts. Usually, citi and chase only pull Equifax.
BOA, AMEX, discover, and other ugly card issuers like providian, WAMU like Experian, which is the pain
in the ass.



Bogdan said: dmlavigne1 said: Bogdan said: I thought Experian inquires don'r come off with B*. Am I missing something?

I think he meant EQ. You are right Experian is unbumpable.


Thanks! By the way, I did my AOR monday and there are 15 inquiries on my CR, 14 of which are to Experian, including the ones from Citi, Chase, BOA and AMEX. For sure I'll have to wait for a while before attempting a second AOR. Also, I'll be surprized to get even close to all approvals this time.

I finished bumping my EQ report today. From what I can gather via EQ Gold it appears to weight soft pulls by number of pulls per issuer.

From my AOR date to the late hard pulls I expected to see all of the soft pulls from those dates bumped before the next hard pull.

Ths turned out to be untrue. The only soft pulls that were bumped before the hard pulls were the NC IP soft pulls (about 40 pulls total on the report from this service) from dates before teh hard pull. Other softs (even 2 from Countrywide) stayed in place from dates before the AOR and bumped hard pulls.

My conclusion is that the EQ total stack size (Hard Pulls + Soft Pulls) = 98 and TU has increased their stack/block size in teh last month or so.

dmlavigne1, Just thought I'd tell you my experience with TU in the last month. Like I said in an earlier post, pulled 71 times with 4 services over the last month, and started bumping EQ but no TU. Pulled 4 times after next day and continued to bump EQ. Then I read your post about skipping a day, so I didn't pull for the next 3 days. Yesterday I pulled 1 service, boom, all 9 TU INq's gone in one shot! (And 7 of the 9 were Mortgage INQ's).

Same happened for boyfriend, but with fewer pulls. He was on pull #35 and had not bumped anything. Then he didn't pull for the same 3 days I didn't. When we pulled the 1st service for him, bam all 8 TU INq's (All Mortgage) were gone.

Skipping the days made the difference!!

But I am surprised to see mortgage Inq's fall of TU. I thought they couldn't be bumped? Anyone have experience with this?

Star2211 said: dmlavigne1, Just thought I'd tell you my experience with TU in the last month. Like I said in an earlier post, pulled 71 times with 4 services over the last month, and started bumping EQ but no TU. Pulled 4 times after next day and continued to bump EQ. Then I read your post about skipping a day, so I didn't pull for the next 3 days. Yesterday I pulled 1 service, boom, all 9 TU INq's gone in one shot! (And 7 of the 9 were Mortgage INQ's).

Same happened for boyfriend, but with fewer pulls. He was on pull #35 and had not bumped anything. Then he didn't pull for the same 3 days I didn't. When we pulled the 1st service for him, bam all 8 TU INq's (All Mortgage) were gone.

Skipping the days made the difference!!

But I am surprised to see mortgage Inq's fall of TU. I thought they couldn't be bumped? Anyone have experience with this?


In computer programming terms it's almost like it is a "cache" and the cache expires when no new pulls thus causing a refresh of the cache.

Star2211 said: dmlavigne1, Just thought I'd tell you my experience with TU in the last month. Like I said in an earlier post, pulled 71 times with 4 services over the last month, and started bumping EQ but no TU. Pulled 4 times after next day and continued to bump EQ. Then I read your post about skipping a day, so I didn't pull for the next 3 days. Yesterday I pulled 1 service, boom, all 9 TU INq's gone in one shot! (And 7 of the 9 were Mortgage INQ's).

Same happened for boyfriend, but with fewer pulls. He was on pull #35 and had not bumped anything. Then he didn't pull for the same 3 days I didn't. When we pulled the 1st service for him, bam all 8 TU INq's (All Mortgage) were gone.

Skipping the days made the difference!!

But I am surprised to see mortgage Inq's fall of TU. I thought they couldn't be bumped? Anyone have experience with this?



If you look at my 1st few posts in this thread I explain I had 8 fall in 1 day. I've also bumped TU mortgage inqs, but I cant bump EQ mortgage inqs.

I have paused for a week at a time recently, I'd like to figure this out.

I'll bring my message from the 1st page.

win333 said: I have 4 services cip, AMEX, tc, pm123. When I checked into this I thought I noticed that.

TC = soft
AMEX = soft

but pm123 and cip only equaled 1 soft on tu.

on eq all 4 = 4 softs

I also noticed my younger hard inqs would B* before all of my older softs.

The only thing I could come up with was similiar to the blocks theory but instead of 1 block holding 1 inq (soft or hard) I thought maybe each block held 4 or so inqs (soft or hard).

I have no proof of this, i'm just guessing, but some how my older softs stay and my new hards get B*ed.

To sum up:
With the 4 services I have, I ONLY GET 3 SOFTS PER DAY ON TU.
WITH THE 4 SERVICES I HAVE, I GET 4 SOFTS PER DAY ON EQ.

I have written about this in other threads and I read about it on 1 other thread a few months back. Really this is not new, I figured the extra eq soft was worth it to me.

I also use to have eq gold, I also noticed what you said. That 1st you pull then it puts a soft on (you don't see the soft until the next day) I think GOLD will put about 10 softs on your report then those start getting B*ed so it looks like it is just replacing the last gold soft.

This is hard to follow i'm sure, I'll read comments and try to help. Good thread, thanks for trying.


It's spread out with multiple posts

dmlavigne1 said: Star2211 said: dmlavigne1, Just thought I'd tell you my experience with TU in the last month. Like I said in an earlier post, pulled 71 times with 4 services over the last month, and started bumping EQ but no TU. Pulled 4 times after next day and continued to bump EQ. Then I read your post about skipping a day, so I didn't pull for the next 3 days. Yesterday I pulled 1 service, boom, all 9 TU INq's gone in one shot! (And 7 of the 9 were Mortgage INQ's).

Same happened for boyfriend, but with fewer pulls. He was on pull #35 and had not bumped anything. Then he didn't pull for the same 3 days I didn't. When we pulled the 1st service for him, bam all 8 TU INq's (All Mortgage) were gone.

Skipping the days made the difference!!

But I am surprised to see mortgage Inq's fall of TU. I thought they couldn't be bumped? Anyone have experience with this?


In computer programming terms it's almost like it is a "cache" and the cache expires when no new pulls thus causing a refresh of the cache.


Can you maybe explain your CACHE thoughts, I think we're getting close to an answer and B*ing Mortgage INQs would be great!

dmlavigne1 said: My conclusion is that the EQ total stack size (Hard Pulls + Soft Pulls) = 98 and TU has increased their stack/block size in teh last month or so.
TU will hold a total of 128 inquires, this has not change for the last year. EQ will probably hold 128 inquires also, I currently have 107 on mine. You would have to pull a true TU report every day to figure this out, I am not aware of a way to do this.

Also remember since November there has reports (at CB) about TU not reporting properly to third party services. This could be why you are seeing groups of hard inquires falling off at once. They can actually be falling off one by one but when the report updates properly they are all gone.

this is a little off topic, but it's important I think.

I use 4 services, and had been getting 4 softs on experian but since DEC 8 07 I have not had any softs added from 2 of my services. So it looks like even experian is working on the problem of to many softs being recorded.

That sucks, get your credit while you can. I'm sure the others will follow.

Try to explain this 1!


National City pulled my TU yesterday and today the INQ is already gone. I may have pulled 2 reports before it fell off.


I wonder if my file is about to split? Maybe it only has a few more blocks of space left, because it's storing my old softs. I was wondering how come I was able to B* items newer that my old softs. This might make sense.


I thought I would add that I have 2 INQs from 1/25 that haven't B*ed yet.

win333 said: Try to explain this 1!


National City pulled my TU yesterday and today the INQ is already gone. I may have pulled 2 reports before it fell off.


I wonder if my file is about to split? Maybe it only has a few more blocks of space left, because it's storing my old softs. I was wondering how come I was able to B* items newer that my old softs. This might make sense.


I thought I would add that I have 2 INQs from 1/25 that haven't B*ed yet.
i had something similar happen to me with my citi inquiry with TU. It disappeared, but it came back 2 days later

Well here's something else to add.

I had frozen my TU yesterday so CRAP1 could only pull my EQ. Then I unfroze TU and applied for National City biz, I wonder if that had something to do with it.

If TU isn't keeping track of the time your TU is frozen, maybe they removed it?????? That might be a stretch but we'll see.


I am sure the TU INQ will not reappear.

I have already pulled AMEX CS, TC and PM123 and the INQ is gone from all 3. I'll pull chaseidentityprotect later tonight and check there.

Now that nymgiants mentioned it, I recall similar thing: a fresh TU inq disappeared for 2-3 days only to re-appear later. I believe I've even made a post about it, perhaps even in my own AOR thread.

dmlavigne1 said: Has anyone seen a TU inquiry bump off in the last couple of weeks? If so post the date.

I bumped one TU inquiry on 2/5/08 and a second TU inquiry on 2/7/08. I'm using Key Bank Privacy Matters and 24ProtectPlus.

2Cor521

nymgiants said: win333 said: Try to explain this 1!

National City pulled my TU yesterday and today the INQ is already gone. I may have pulled 2 reports before it fell off.

I wonder if my file is about to split? Maybe it only has a few more blocks of space left, because it's storing my old softs. I was wondering how come I was able to B* items newer that my old softs. This might make sense.

I thought I would add that I have 2 INQs from 1/25 that haven't B*ed yet.
i had something similar happen to me with my citi inquiry with TU. It disappeared, but it came back 2 days later
I second nymgiants experience (others also have seen this I beleive)

Bumping because the quick summary is damned useful

nymgiants said: win333 said: Try to explain this 1!


National City pulled my TU yesterday and today the INQ is already gone. I may have pulled 2 reports before it fell off.


I wonder if my file is about to split? Maybe it only has a few more blocks of space left, because it's storing my old softs. I was wondering how come I was able to B* items newer that my old softs. This might make sense.


I thought I would add that I have 2 INQs from 1/25 that haven't B*ed yet.
i had something similar happen to me with my citi inquiry with TU. It disappeared, but it came back 2 days later



you were right, the darn Inq came back. Nothin new here.

I'm at around 90+ softs, and 10+ hards on my Equifax report, and no bumpage yet... Pulling daily from 3 sources... I hope I see some b soon...

At least in my case nothing with B* has changed. TU after about 60 pulls and EQ about 90.

nymgiants said: win333 said: Try to explain this 1!
National City pulled my TU yesterday and today the INQ is already gone. I may have pulled 2 reports before it fell off.
I wonder if my file is about to split? Maybe it only has a few more blocks of space left, because it's storing my old softs. I was wondering how come I was able to B* items newer that my old softs. This might make sense.
I thought I would add that I have 2 INQs from 1/25 that haven't B*ed yet.
i had something similar happen to me with my citi inquiry with TU. It disappeared, but it came back 2 days later


I have a plausible explanation. As always, I don't know this for sure, but this is the best guess I can make.

1. TU system is not real-time. ANY updates to the report file are processed as a batch process. Inquiries are also processed in this batch-process manner.

2. There are multiple versions of the data, stored in multiple databases. There is, however, one Master Data store, which EVENTUALLY will get all the updates, reported from various third-parties.

3. Because of the time-criticality of inquiries, the intermediate database where NEW inquiries are stored is queried when furnishing a new report in response to some inquiries (hard and soft), however, TU is not able to guarantee this all the time, or they guarantee for new hard pulls, but not new soft pulls,

Now, before your new inquiry finds its way to the Master, and then, from the Master is propagated to all the other data sources that are used by the various monitoring programs, you might see an intermediate inconsistent view. This might lead you to believe that the inquiry has disappeared shortly after being recorded. However, as soon as the batch process updates the Master, and then the updates to the Master are propagated to all the secondaries, then you will see the inquiry come back.

Experian, on the other hand, does not work like this. Again, this is my opinion, I don't know this for sure.

I have often seen Experian updated as soon as my statement closes (next business day), while TU does not update for 1, 2, 3 days, sometimes a week. This confirms the batch process idea. BofA sends a bunch of credit file updates for 500,000 K accounts per day, and it is NOT a priority for TU to propagate that to the Master database. TUs priority is to provide up-to-date inquiry statistics for new hard pulls. However, they immediately put the 500K records into some intermediate database, which can be queried, if necessary.

If my theory is right, then some disputes of account balances at TU should resolve in very short time. The TU resolution process simply queries the intermediate database for updates on that SSN # and Credit Card ID, and if found, simply updates the Master. There is no need to go to the furnisher at that point.

So, how to make the bumpage working in Experian? I read all the discussions but can't find any possible solutions in case of handle Experian enqueries? Thanks.

faizur said: So, how to make the bumpage working in Experian? I read all the discussions but can't find any possible solutions in case of handle Experian enqueries? Thanks.~730 pulls from a single service will bump off Exp inquiries......

Meaning there is no solution, which is mentioned quite often. You can dispute the inquiries with Experian, then sue them for failing to investigate a dispute and collect your $100-$1000 per inquiry they didnt investigate.

No one has reported on actually doing this and its likely the inquiries will STILL remain even after the dust settles, but your wallet might get a bit fatter.

Good post Tolamaps!

Glitch99 said: faizur said: So, how to make the bumpage working in Experian? I read all the discussions but can't find any possible solutions in case of handle Experian enqueries? Thanks.~730 pulls from a single service will bump off Exp inquiries......

Meaning there is no solution, which is mentioned quite often. You can dispute the inquiries with Experian, then sue them for failing to investigate a dispute and collect your $100-$1000 per inquiry they didnt investigate.

No one has reported on actually doing this and its likely the inquiries will STILL remain even after the dust settles, but your wallet might get a bit fatter.


I sure wish someone would go after experian already I'm having to much fun to rock the boat!

TU: after 40+ b the hards gone, but when new future hards appear, do you have to start brand new with a new 40+ b? Does not seem to make sense since the space on your file is still used up, but????????

duna said: TU: after 40+ b the hards gone, but when new future hards appear, do you have to start brand new with a new 40+ b? Does not seem to make sense since the space on your file is still used up, but????????
Yes, it starts all over again.

duna said: TU: after 40+ b the hards gone, but when new future hards appear, do you have to start brand new with a new 40+ b? Does not seem to make sense since the space on your file is still used up, but????????

Last in last out. New INQ goes to the top of the stack, bottom entry gets B*ed. Makes perfect sense.

Please explain--I do not get it: I am speaking about after you knocked out all prior TU inqs and afterwards one or two new ones show up. If you filled up all all the space---why start just like brand new again???????????? But if it works this way than it is better to wait for a while( after prior b) when you have several TU or EX hards so you will get more than just one or two?

duna said: Please explain--I do not get it: I am speaking about after you knocked out all prior TU inqs and afterwards one or two new ones show up. If you filled up all all the space---why start just like brand new again???????????? But if it works this way than it is better to wait for a while( after prior b) when you have several TU or EX hards so you will get more than just one or two?

try this

Okay, I just started seeing b* results over the past couple of days on PM123. TU inqs dropped from 3 to 1. However, TU FAKO did not change at all. Anyone else seeing that kind of result?

--VW

EQ seems to have done some major choppage around 3/23/08, removing duplicate soft inquiries. I had been getting b* on EQ up until last week and then it stopped. Here are my softs from CS, CIDP, PM123 and NCIP:

CIC/EXPERIAN RPTS 03/27/08, 03/26/08, 03/25/08, 03/24/08, 03/23/08, 02/29/08
FIRST ADVANTAGE CREDCO 03/28/08, 03/27/08, 03/26/08, 03/25/08, 03/24/08, 02/29/08
True Credit/VERTRUE 03/28/08, 03/27/08, 03/26/08, 03/25/08, 03/24/08, 02/29/08
True Credit/VERTRUE 03/27/08, 03/26/08, 03/25/08, 03/24/08

What you don't see are all the inquiries dated before Feb 29th, or between that date up to March 23. They all disappeared. Others have reported a similar experience on CB all around the same day. It looks the softs were removed, leaving only the most recent one from each month. I do not have any EQ products so it does not seem to be choppage due to using EQ products.



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