ways of making 1,000s of % on your AOR money

I brought this up in another thread and thought I would move it here so I didn't kill the op's thread.

So flame away here, give feed back, ideas, what you do, or ideas how we can put our fatwallet community to even better use.

If there was 100 of us using our AOR money about 100,000 to 300,000 each.

100 X 100,000 - 300,000= 10,000,000 to 30,000,000 dollars.

That money could buy a 100,000,000 to 300,000,000 dollar company to service the debt it would take to buy the company. Now of course it would have to be a company that was making money. But really the sky is the limit.

So read on and think about it, I have no plan, no agenda, don't want nothin.

All of this is very interesting but to what end???? making 5 or 6%, we have alot of very smart people here I think we should be able to make much much more.

Can't we waste time on making real money not just 1% over what we can get with a guaranteed CD!!!!!

I am more than interested in helping to share what i've learned good or bad.

If I get 4% on 200,000 thats 8,000 but if I spend hours buy this other stuff and trading and what not and make 5% on 200,000. That will be an extra 2,000 for my time.

Here is my example, Now i'm not saying to trade stocks i'm just using this as an example of the kind of increases in money that are going on all around us everyday. For each example I right, there may be 10,000 diferent ways to go about this. So bare with me.

Arcelormittal---- is a company that was worth about 1,250,000,000 in 2001 and is now worth 96,000,000,000. Ya I know it was a crappy steel company and the fundamentals changed. Well that the opportunity, that is a about a 7,500%%%%% return in 5 years. Ya I know thats stock trading and WAY TO RISKY. I agree!!!!

Ted Turner, bought a minor league base ball team for 1 million dollars way back when. After the purchase he found an account in the teams name that was from hotdog sales. It had 1 million cash in it. He got the team for FREE!!!!!!

Apple computer was a crappy company that hardly made any money for YEARS and was worth 6,200,000,000 and now today is worth 154,000,000,000 thats over a 2,300%%%%% gain.

Now I bought my property for a total 1,802,250 with no money of my own! I made purchases at different times starting 5 years ago and my last purchase was 3 1/2 years ago. A fire sale right now would bring in about 2,160,000, selling at the current market price would bring in about 2,750,000. Now if I change the use of 1 of my properties to townhomes they were already appraised at 3,054,000 and after upgrades will make the properties RETAIL VALUE 4,772,750 + 710,000 (remaing properties) for a total of 5,482,750. Minus remaining balances on current mortgages and spending about 1,000,000 to upgrade properties to new condition (about 2,535,000) 5,482,000- 2,535,000 = 2,947,000 profit. If I used 10,000 of my own money that would be 29,400%%%% return on investment. Sure that will take alot of work and more money (not my money) but it sure beats the heck out of a guaranteed 5% return. Selling the townhomes for 4,772,000 is also very conservative they sell down the street for much more and could be 5,536,000 + 710,000=6,246,000 - 2,535,000 (loans)= 3,711,000 or 37,000%%% return which would cover the sales commissions and what not.

Now most will say BUT thats realestate and now that is dead. Thats why I gave 4 very different examples and the 4 are using very different scales of money needed, of course there are 1,000s more example but I hope you get the idea.

I going to start a new thread so we don't kill the op's thread.

So you guys can flame away or share your ideas here.

I'll keep this place for future thoughts.

The fun has begun, I've only give some thought here. Don't be so negative, if you don't believe either just read on or leave.

I'm telling you I'm doing it. So don't reply it can't be done.

Or post what your doing, unless it's just making 5%. Maybe the people who have done the same thing don't post here anymore.

Reserved. When my brain wakes up.

And hindsight is 20/20, so it is nice how you picked out all the rosy examples. Notice, I didn't see anything about investing in Enron, or the mortgage market 6 months ago as a potential idea that may have been a good idea at the time but what have likely bankrupted many AOR'ers should they have invested their BT $ in such an endeavor.

One more thing, your title says "making 1,000's of % on your AOR" money. A typically AOR is 1 year long, in which you pretty much have to pay off all the balances before getting new cards; your title is absolutely, utterly far fetched. Even making 100% in a year is far fetched, let alone a thousand, or thousands. Do you really expect a practical method of even obtaining a 10% chance of making 100% return in one year?

win333 said: MikeR397 said: Your analysis is a classic risk/reward tradeoff. If you want to get more than 5% with your BT funds, you better be willing to risk loosing your BT funds. There is simply not open opportunities to earn more than this via risk free means. Otherwise, no one would be doing savings accounts and no one would be risking bonds/stocks. Keep your FDIC accounts, sleep easy, be happy with your free money.

Of course it's a trade off, but it is well worth the return if you structure it right. There are many opportunities out there, I have so many irons in the fire I can't even believe it.

Once apple or google had their 1st hit, that gave them the money for their next big hit and so on.

Don't forget, when you buy a running company, it also has cash!!!!! So it's not as much risk when WE are the board of directors. It's just more risk when you are a share holder with no CONTROL.I'm not trying to be an arse, but your statements and comments sound like you have never taken a finance or economics class, not to mention having any understanding of how risk/reward works with respect to efficent market theory. What you are talking about is not practical and not possible to do with a 1 year AOR loan. I'd love you to prove me wrong, but I wouldn't suggest trying.

MikeR397 said: One more thing, your title says "making 1,000's of % on your AOR" money. A typically AOR is 1 year long, in which you pretty much have to pay off all the balances before getting new cards; your title is absolutely, utterly far fetched. Even making 100% in a year is far fetched, let alone a thousand, or thousands. Do you really expect a practical method of even obtaining a 10% chance of making 100% return in one year?

If what you buy (instead of a CD) makes the payments on your AOR money then you don't have to worry about it in 12 months. What I bought paid for the debt I incuured to buy it with.

BobtheCFP said: win333 said:
Now I bought my property for a total 1,802,250 with no money of my own! I made purchases at different times starting 5 years ago and my last purchase was 3 1/2 years ago. A fire sale right now would bring in about 2,160,000, selling at the current market price would bring in about 2,750,000. Now if I change the use of 1 of my properties to townhomes they were already appraised at 3,054,000 and after upgrades will make the properties RETAIL VALUE 4,772,750 + 710,000 (remaing properties) for a total of 5,482,750. Minus remaining balances on current mortgages and spending about 1,000,000 to upgrade properties to new condition (about 2,535,000) 5,482,000- 2,535,000 = 2,947,000 profit. If I used 10,000 of my own money that would be 29,400%%%% return on investment. Sure that will take alot of work and more money (not my money) but it sure beats the heck out of a guaranteed 5% return. Selling the townhomes for 4,772,000 is also very conservative they sell down the street for much more and could be 5,536,000 + 710,000=6,246,000 - 2,535,000 (loans)= 3,711,000 or 37,000%%% return which would cover the sales commissions and what not.

I am sure you know there is a large difference between, retail value, appraised value and what it sells for. What about all the expenses you have incurred on these properties? Don't you pay real estate taxes, whats you interest rate on the mortgages? Also, will you be selling these yourself or paying a realtor fees? Have you had to make upgrades or pay any other money for these properties? I find it hilarious that you think you could spend $1,000,000 in this climate and add almost $3,000,000 in property value.

As another bright poster pointed out there is a risk/reward with every investment and when highly leveraged only a small decrease could cause you to lose your whole investment. The beauty with 5% is that the government is guaranteeing your principal.

I added all of those cost you talk about, DON'T just skim over it. REALLY read it, I'm not guessing do you think I just pulled those numbers out of my ARSE come on. Instead of just jumping on the negative OPEN YOUR MIND!!!!

win333 said: Don't forget, when you buy a running company, it also has cash!!!!! So it's not as much risk when WE are the board of directors. It's just more risk when you are a share holder with no CONTROL.Don't forget, when you buy a running company, it also has liabilities! The company I work for has monster cash flow, good reserves, and a massive amount of debt (think a small country). Also, 30 random FWFer's does not make an effective board of directors. Just because someone is savvy in scraping 5% off of BT money doesn't mean they are capable of directing a steel, or internet search, or roadbuilding, etc type company.

I would view this is actually more risk than just investing wisely in the stock market. You are herding cats with massive amounts of money few, if any, can afford to lose.

win333 said: MikeR397 said: One more thing, your title says "making 1,000's of % on your AOR" money. A typically AOR is 1 year long, in which you pretty much have to pay off all the balances before getting new cards; your title is absolutely, utterly far fetched. Even making 100% in a year is far fetched, let alone a thousand, or thousands. Do you really expect a practical method of even obtaining a 10% chance of making 100% return in one year?

If what you buy (instead of a CD) makes the payments on your AOR money then you don't have to worry about it in 12 months. What I bought paid for the debt I incuured to buy it with.

I think the point is that after 1 year it's no longer 0%, but rather 20-30% interest on the debt.

If you are talking about borrowing the money, buying a company, and then paying off the entire original investment in 1 year, that is unlikely.

ALSO.... your example involves borrowing the money, then using it as a down payment on a business (30 mill buys a 300 mill business). You are now talking about using borrowed money as a downplayment to borrow money, basically double leveraging. Few people will allow you to do this, and if you do it secretly, you may be charged with fraud.

win333 said: Don't forget, when you buy a running company, it also has cash!!!!! So it's not as much risk when WE are the board of directors. It's just more risk when you are a share holder with no CONTROL.Oh gosh, shoot me now! You think you are Warren Buffet?

Feel free to add to my list:

1. People has to trust you to going in investing with you.

2. You are going to present an offer with AOR money?!

3. You know any good CEO just sitting on a beach waiting to work for you?

4. Good company are priced accordingly. You are going to pay a premium for it.

5. Bad companies are where the opportunity lies. Any experience turning things around?

6. Lostdude for CEO? Failure for sure.

Board of director don't really "run" the company, despite what you heard

I'm in. Send me $300k and I'll get the ball rolling. You think we have a shot at acquiring Hello Kitty?

BobtheCFP said: win333 said:
I added all of those cost you talk about, DON'T just skim over it. REALLY read it, I'm not guessing do you think I just pulled those numbers out of my ARSE come on. Instead of just jumping on the negative OPEN YOUR MIND!!!!

I've read it a few times now and you have no mortgage interest costs, so did someone buy these properties for you and give you them for free? You have no property taxes listed, is the income so good from all of these properties that it covers both mortgage payments, property taxes and all other expenses throughout the year?

This is the information you've said
HOME COSTS $(1,802,250)
MORTGAGE INTEREST $-
PROPERTY TAXES $-
SELLING COSTS $-
REPAIRS $-
TOTAL COST $(1,802,250)

CURRENT "MARKET VALUE" $2,750,000
CHANGE TO TOWNHOME $3,054,000
"UPGRADES" $(1,000,000)
"RETAIL VALUE" $5,482,750

NEW TOTAL COSTS $(2,802,250)

"PROFIT" $2,680,500

Of course the properties pay the taxes and the interest rate and the debt srevicing What do you think I bought I freakin home!!!! How do you think I live and pay my employees. I'm not saying it's all fun but it works.

Instead of saying THAT IT CAN'T BE DONE, TRY TO FIGURE OUT HOW I'M DOING IT!!!! Jesus christ, what do you think i'm just a guy who got a credit card wooohoooo. Put it to work.

There is nothing creative or new here.

There are thousand of people and corporations out there right now with millions of cash doing nothing but looking for opportunities 24x7.

I'm not looking down on FWF people but what I AM saying is there the world is not as dumb as you think. What is doable is to form a mutual fund for FWF but then again you are going to have a such a diverse opinion on what's going to be HAWT you be spending all day playing peace maker.

squid3 said: Even better, ways I can make 1,000s on YOUR AOR money

Start a company, mmm, let's call it...AORway

I'll create some training materials and sell them for...mmm...how about $499.00

Then I'll recruit future AORianites and I'll get a portion of their AOR funds. This may not seem fair to them at first, but since they used MY training materials and MY recruiting and marketing skills, they have gained more knowledge and will be able to build their own AOR business, generating $$ from their clients.

So EVERYONE wins!!!

Seriously though, your plan is interesting, but it really has little to do with AORs and more to do with trying to go into business with other FW members. While this is not in itself a bad discussion, whether the funds come from AOR or another source wouldn't so much matter. In fact, in the case of an AOR, you are generally dealing with a 6-12 month timeframe before interest kicks in, so it may make it more difficult knowing you would need to extract nearly 100% of the initial purchase $$$ within 1 year.

Your gettin there, but this isn't about YOU giving ME money, I am not askin for SQUAT. I am just throwing the idea out there but NOT FOR ME. Maybe I could be a part of it, Maybe there is someone better. WHAT EVER, Can't we stop with the CAN'TS and start with the HOW CAN WE.

The correct purchase would more than pay off the AOR money or service the AOR debt. Didn't you see what I said about TED TURNER???

Those things happen all the time, if WE fatwalleter open our minds WE could be a force.

win333 said: MikeR397 said: And hindsight is 20/20, so it is nice how you picked out all the rosy examples. Notice, I didn't see anything about investing in Enron, or the mortgage market 6 months ago as a potential idea that may have been a good idea at the time but what have likely bankrupted many AOR'ers should they have invested their BT $ in such an endeavor.

I and WE are smarter than that to invest in ENRON or REALESTATE 6 months ago.

Come on I'm not talkin about buying a flash in the pan!!!!

Tell that to codename47

Big deal. Using other people's money is how you build wealth. Whether it comes from an AOR or a venture capitalist or an IPO or any other funding source, it is all the same concept, and there are plenty of people doing it.

Related thread: Using AOR money to buy stocks & mutual funds

win333 said: BobtheCFP said: win333 said:
I added all of those cost you talk about, DON'T just skim over it. REALLY read it, I'm not guessing do you think I just pulled those numbers out of my ARSE come on. Instead of just jumping on the negative OPEN YOUR MIND!!!!

I've read it a few times now and you have no mortgage interest costs, so did someone buy these properties for you and give you them for free? You have no property taxes listed, is the income so good from all of these properties that it covers both mortgage payments, property taxes and all other expenses throughout the year?

This is the information you've said
HOME COSTS $(1,802,250)
MORTGAGE INTEREST $-
PROPERTY TAXES $-
SELLING COSTS $-
REPAIRS $-
TOTAL COST $(1,802,250)

CURRENT "MARKET VALUE" $2,750,000
CHANGE TO TOWNHOME $3,054,000
"UPGRADES" $(1,000,000)
"RETAIL VALUE" $5,482,750

NEW TOTAL COSTS $(2,802,250)

"PROFIT" $2,680,500

Of course the properties pay the taxes and the interest rate and the debt srevicing What do you think I bought I freakin home!!!! How do you think I live and pay my employees. I'm not saying it's all fun but it works.

Instead of saying THAT IT CAN'T BE DONE, TRY TO FIGURE OUT HOW I'M DOING IT!!!! Jesus christ, what do you think i'm just a guy who got a credit card wooohoooo. Put it to work.

Sorry I can't resist. I think you got suckered into an easy money scheme. If something seems to good to be true it probably is. Even if this is as great as you think it is, which I doubt, what happens when occupancy rates at your places drop? Or when the housing market continues to slide and the economy goes into a recession?

The "fire price sale" is the market value of your properties and their is NO guarantee that they will go up in value. I've heard enough sob stories in my short life about paper millionaires declaring bankruptcy. I wish you good luck, but you logic is flawed and just wishing something will go up in value doesn't mean it will.

I think we can patch this idea up to address your guys' concerns.

First, we only have that AOR money for a year, right? Well, there needs to be some sort of setup where we can all _temporarily_ buy a part of a good company. At the end of the year when we've turned it around we can sell it for more than we bought that part for.

Second, if we just buy one company then there's a chance we could get blindsided by failure, right? Well, what if instead of this temporarily buying a part of one company we instead set up a system that allows us to all temporarily buy parts of _multiple_ companies?

Finally, how do we decide which companies and how many parts? Well, this is a group effort so we're talking about solidarity. Really, we've got to find one leader to make the decisions. We could select one of our own, but why not hire a real frickin' genius of economics?!? Now, follow me here. I bet that somebody has come up with a scheme like this before, and hired financial geniuses to make their money. There's got to be a record of these schemes somewhere, and from there we can find who the biggest frickin' genius is. Hell, maybe we don't even have to get this guy to set up something new for us, maybe we can just sneak into something he's already got going on!

I think this could work!

--Joe

win333 said:

Of course when you buy a company it has liabilities,
Just like me my Company has zero debt

JP Morgan to buy BSC for 2 bucks a share.

Who wants to buy some?

This is the type of opportunity I was talking about, this deal is to big of course. But just wait, there are more to come!

Thats about 98.8% off the 15 month high $170.00 per share