I brought this up in another thread and thought I would move it here so I didn't kill the op's thread.

So flame away here, give feed back, ideas, what you do, or ideas how we can put our fatwallet community to even better use.

If there was 100 of us using our AOR money about 100,000 to 300,000 each.

100 X 100,000 - 300,000= 10,000,000 to 30,000,000 dollars.

That money could buy a 100,000,000 to 300,000,000 dollar company to service the debt it would take to buy the company. Now of course it would have to be a company that was making money. But really the sky is the limit.

So read on and think about it, I have no plan, no agenda, don't want nothin.

All of this is very interesting but to what end???? making 5 or 6%, we have alot of very smart people here I think we should be able to make much much more.

Can't we waste time on making real money not just 1% over what we can get with a guaranteed CD!!!!!

I am more than interested in helping to share what i've learned good or bad.

If I get 4% on 200,000 thats 8,000 but if I spend hours buy this other stuff and trading and what not and make 5% on 200,000. That will be an extra 2,000 for my time.

Here is my example, Now i'm not saying to trade stocks i'm just using this as an example of the kind of increases in money that are going on all around us everyday. For each example I right, there may be 10,000 diferent ways to go about this. So bare with me.

Arcelormittal---- is a company that was worth about 1,250,000,000 in 2001 and is now worth 96,000,000,000. Ya I know it was a crappy steel company and the fundamentals changed. Well that the opportunity, that is a about a 7,500%%%%% return in 5 years. Ya I know thats stock trading and WAY TO RISKY. I agree!!!!

Ted Turner, bought a minor league base ball team for 1 million dollars way back when. After the purchase he found an account in the teams name that was from hotdog sales. It had 1 million cash in it. He got the team for FREE!!!!!!

Apple computer was a crappy company that hardly made any money for YEARS and was worth 6,200,000,000 and now today is worth 154,000,000,000 thats over a 2,300%%%%% gain.

Now I bought my property for a total 1,802,250 with no money of my own! I made purchases at different times starting 5 years ago and my last purchase was 3 1/2 years ago. A fire sale right now would bring in about 2,160,000, selling at the current market price would bring in about 2,750,000. Now if I change the use of 1 of my properties to townhomes they were already appraised at 3,054,000 and after upgrades will make the properties RETAIL VALUE 4,772,750 + 710,000 (remaing properties) for a total of 5,482,750. Minus remaining balances on current mortgages and spending about 1,000,000 to upgrade properties to new condition (about 2,535,000) 5,482,000- 2,535,000 = 2,947,000 profit. If I used 10,000 of my own money that would be 29,400%%%% return on investment. Sure that will take alot of work and more money (not my money) but it sure beats the heck out of a guaranteed 5% return. Selling the townhomes for 4,772,000 is also very conservative they sell down the street for much more and could be 5,536,000 + 710,000=6,246,000 - 2,535,000 (loans)= 3,711,000 or 37,000%%% return which would cover the sales commissions and what not.

Now most will say BUT thats realestate and now that is dead. Thats why I gave 4 very different examples and the 4 are using very different scales of money needed, of course there are 1,000s more example but I hope you get the idea.

I going to start a new thread so we don't kill the op's thread.

So you guys can flame away or share your ideas here.

I'll keep this place for future thoughts.

The fun has begun, I've only give some thought here. Don't be so negative, if you don't believe either just read on or leave.

I'm telling you I'm doing it. So don't reply it can't be done.

Or post what your doing, unless it's just making 5%. Maybe the people who have done the same thing don't post here anymore.

Reserved. When my brain wakes up.

And hindsight is 20/20, so it is nice how you picked out all the rosy examples. Notice, I didn't see anything about investing in Enron, or the mortgage market 6 months ago as a potential idea that may have been a good idea at the time but what have likely bankrupted many AOR'ers should they have invested their BT $ in such an endeavor.

One more thing, your title says "making 1,000's of % on your AOR" money. A typically AOR is 1 year long, in which you pretty much have to pay off all the balances before getting new cards; your title is absolutely, utterly far fetched. Even making 100% in a year is far fetched, let alone a thousand, or thousands. Do you really expect a practical method of even obtaining a 10% chance of making 100% return in one year?

win333 said:MikeR397 said:Your analysis is a classic risk/reward tradeoff. If you want to get more than 5% with your BT funds, you better be willing to risk loosing your BT funds. There is simply not open opportunities to earn more than this via risk free means. Otherwise, no one would be doing savings accounts and no one would be risking bonds/stocks. Keep your FDIC accounts, sleep easy, be happy with your free money.

Of course it's a trade off, but it is well worth the return if you structure it right. There are many opportunities out there, I have so many irons in the fire I can't even believe it.

Once apple or google had their 1st hit, that gave them the money for their next big hit and so on.

Don't forget, when you buy a running company, it also has cash!!!!! So it's not as much risk when WE are the board of directors. It's just more risk when you are a share holder with no CONTROL.I'm not trying to be an arse, but your statements and comments sound like you have never taken a finance or economics class, not to mention having any understanding of how risk/reward works with respect to efficent market theory. What you are talking about is not practical and not possible to do with a 1 year AOR loan. I'd love you to prove me wrong, but I wouldn't suggest trying.

MikeR397 said:One more thing, your title says "making 1,000's of % on your AOR" money. A typically AOR is 1 year long, in which you pretty much have to pay off all the balances before getting new cards; your title is absolutely, utterly far fetched. Even making 100% in a year is far fetched, let alone a thousand, or thousands. Do you really expect a practical method of even obtaining a 10% chance of making 100% return in one year?

If what you buy (instead of a CD) makes the payments on your AOR money then you don't have to worry about it in 12 months. What I bought paid for the debt I incuured to buy it with.

BobtheCFP said:win333 said:
Now I bought my property for a total 1,802,250 with no money of my own! I made purchases at different times starting 5 years ago and my last purchase was 3 1/2 years ago. A fire sale right now would bring in about 2,160,000, selling at the current market price would bring in about 2,750,000. Now if I change the use of 1 of my properties to townhomes they were already appraised at 3,054,000 and after upgrades will make the properties RETAIL VALUE 4,772,750 + 710,000 (remaing properties) for a total of 5,482,750. Minus remaining balances on current mortgages and spending about 1,000,000 to upgrade properties to new condition (about 2,535,000) 5,482,000- 2,535,000 = 2,947,000 profit. If I used 10,000 of my own money that would be 29,400%%%% return on investment. Sure that will take alot of work and more money (not my money) but it sure beats the heck out of a guaranteed 5% return. Selling the townhomes for 4,772,000 is also very conservative they sell down the street for much more and could be 5,536,000 + 710,000=6,246,000 - 2,535,000 (loans)= 3,711,000 or 37,000%%% return which would cover the sales commissions and what not.

I am sure you know there is a large difference between, retail value, appraised value and what it sells for. What about all the expenses you have incurred on these properties? Don't you pay real estate taxes, whats you interest rate on the mortgages? Also, will you be selling these yourself or paying a realtor fees? Have you had to make upgrades or pay any other money for these properties? I find it hilarious that you think you could spend $1,000,000 in this climate and add almost $3,000,000 in property value.

As another bright poster pointed out there is a risk/reward with every investment and when highly leveraged only a small decrease could cause you to lose your whole investment. The beauty with 5% is that the government is guaranteeing your principal.

I added all of those cost you talk about, DON'T just skim over it. REALLY read it, I'm not guessing do you think I just pulled those numbers out of my ARSE come on. Instead of just jumping on the negative OPEN YOUR MIND!!!!

win333 said:Don't forget, when you buy a running company, it also has cash!!!!! So it's not as much risk when WE are the board of directors. It's just more risk when you are a share holder with no CONTROL.Don't forget, when you buy a running company, it also has liabilities! The company I work for has monster cash flow, good reserves, and a massive amount of debt (think a small country). Also, 30 random FWFer's does not make an effective board of directors. Just because someone is savvy in scraping 5% off of BT money doesn't mean they are capable of directing a steel, or internet search, or roadbuilding, etc type company.

I would view this is actually more risk than just investing wisely in the stock market. You are herding cats with massive amounts of money few, if any, can afford to lose.

win333 said:MikeR397 said:One more thing, your title says "making 1,000's of % on your AOR" money. A typically AOR is 1 year long, in which you pretty much have to pay off all the balances before getting new cards; your title is absolutely, utterly far fetched. Even making 100% in a year is far fetched, let alone a thousand, or thousands. Do you really expect a practical method of even obtaining a 10% chance of making 100% return in one year?

If what you buy (instead of a CD) makes the payments on your AOR money then you don't have to worry about it in 12 months. What I bought paid for the debt I incuured to buy it with.

I think the point is that after 1 year it's no longer 0%, but rather 20-30% interest on the debt.

If you are talking about borrowing the money, buying a company, and then paying off the entire original investment in 1 year, that is unlikely.

ALSO.... your example involves borrowing the money, then using it as a down payment on a business (30 mill buys a 300 mill business). You are now talking about using borrowed money as a downplayment to borrow money, basically double leveraging. Few people will allow you to do this, and if you do it secretly, you may be charged with fraud.