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jakeru's Micro AOR [@ 12 mos; new round of existing account BTs underway!] Archived From: Finance

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Citi BT update:

Today, the Citi bt landed in my BOA checking. On the very same day, the citi web site has balance updated to reflect the posted BT transaction. I also tried clicking on the "see bt offers" link, for research purposes, to see if the 0% no fee offer is still there. It went away! (So, the terms is had were definitely not "rolling bt compatible".)

I scheduled a $10k prepayment of wife's student loan, and will deposit today the remainder of the BT into my Wa Mu 4.0% APY savings. (Getting an extra $10 interest than waiting until monday.)

New Investment Option: Local CU offering 6.01% APY checking (some restrictions)

I also was doing some credit union searching, and happened upon a local one (field of membership = Washington state only) offering a pretty nice, 6.01%APY "up to 40k balance" (2.0% APY above $40k), if online usage and 12 debit transactions are performed each month (No direct deposit requirement.) That is not bad at all!

Pros: $40k @ 6% APY = $200 interest per month. Unlike CD, the funds stay liquid. Unlike savings accounts, no 6 transaction limit. I can even write checks, so less savings-checking "balance juggling." Might be usable for rolling my BOA BTs (although wouldn't be able to roll the whole $50k credit line all the way down to 0%, unless I'm OK with it earning only 2% APY.)

Downsides & Risks: As happened with SBoT and other similar accounts, rates could drop. (However the program is new enough, I am hopeful it will stay put for a while.) There is no guarantee the rate will be maintained, but I can hope. I need to figure out a way to time-efficiently perform 12 debit transactions each month (or 24 transactions, if my wife also opened an account.) Not sure how I'll make deposits (Deposit convenience checks at some local ATM? Have BOA ACH the BT directly into the account each time?)

In lieu of funding the countrywide 4.5%APY 5-mo CD, I think I'll give this a try. If I am happy enough with it, I could have my wife up for her own account so we'd have between us up to $80k of 6% earning capability.


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jakeru said:After registering on Am Ex online, I put in a crack CLI request to raise IN:LA from $35k -> $50k. Got the 7-10 day message. (I figured it might be a long shot, but figured nothing to lose, what the heck. I would be happy to provide docs or get flagged for financial review, to get it over with.) The "check" that was included in my IN:LA welcome package was also "invalidated" with advertising language being printed all over it (and also was missing a routing & account number.) I'll likely need to put the BT request in online instead but I'll give my CLI request a bit of time to process first.

jakeru, great job on the AOR so far!

Just recently did my AOR and asked for CLI requests for AMEX cards. Received the same "7-10 day" message which resulted in a letter stating CLI increases cannot be approved for the first 6 months of the account opening.

Had to call them to have a BT check sent out. I verified with them that it had to be made out to another person and the account it was deposited in could not be associated with my name in any way (or it would be treated as a cash advance). Made the check out to my bro-in-law.


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dvm395 - thanks for the tip on Am Ex CLI; I've been suspecting it'll probably be denied, but your info is just what I needed to hear to realize it's unlikely. Additionally, 48 hrs+ have passed since my online crack CLI request (with the 7-10 day response), and I've seen no credit line change online, no calls, no nothing... not even a soft EX pull.

update: I called a CSR and requested BT checks. He said three would arrive in (you guessed it!) 7-10 days. If I realized earlier that requesting these checks be delivered didn't actually cause a pending BT transaction, I'd have done it 2 days ago.

Once the BT check arrives, I'll make sure it gets used to pay off another lender so I don't get a cash advance hit.

Would I be correct to assume Am Ex only reports statement closing account balances to CRAs? (I'd like to roll 99% - 100% utilization for the first cycle that it doesn't report.)


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I CLIed after 30 days, Approved in 24 hrs so it can be done.


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update: BOA NEA Am Ex and Am Ex Rewards Plus Gold cards arrived, and are now activated.

Dealing with Chase activation chimps conditioned me to dread speaking with all other activation CSRs. So for my Am Ex cards, I opted for online activation (They are the only isser I am aware of who offer this option.)

With BOA I had to call to activate, but was actually quite pleasantly surprised by a nice activation experience! I think they've got some of the consistently best CSRs there. I love how you can speak with their credit analysts too.

Am Ex CSRs I am still trying to put my finger on... some of them are impressive, but nearly all of them exude this quality of trying too hard to suck up. I guess being new with them I am still trying to figure them out.

Citi CSRs seem like can vary a lot, from incompetent to excellent.


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jakeru said:I have also not yet experimented with using citi for rolling 0%, but perhaps! (I am not sure if I use their 0% BT offer, if it becomes no longer available? IE: can you use it just once or multiple times?)

From my past experience with CITI,

I would do a BT right when I get the card, pay it off in full on the 11th month, and the 0% BT offer would show up again, in which I got another 12 months free BT.

 

PS. about the business CCS.
At first, I was also unsure as to the legal aspects of getting a business cc.

When I applied for my Chase Business CC over phone,

I specifically told the rep that I have no business, but I do sell items on eBay once or twice a month.

He said that would most definitely count as a business (I swear if there was video, I would see his ass winking at me when he said that)

anyways, 5 days later, I got a 15k line.

so jakeru, if you want to be 100% truthful, do the app over the phone.


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Elleve, in my opinion, a CSR that is likely compensated by soliciting your application only serves as justification or rationalization that the business application is legitimate. The CSR's action does not somehow make your business application legitimate. Now I do agree that most of these secondary market activities (eBay, A0Rs, etc.) should count as business activities. However, I just want to point out that the action you suggest does not, in my view, provide any more legitimacy for someone questioning this issue.


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Venturion said:Elleve, in my opinion, a CSR that is likely compensated by soliciting your application only serves as justification or rationalization that the business application is legitimate. The CSR's action does not somehow make your business application legitimate. Now I do agree that most of these secondary market activities (eBay, A0Rs, etc.) should count as business activities. However, I just want to point out that the action you suggest does not, in my view, provide any more legitimacy for someone questioning this issue.

I agree with what your saying, but it goes to show how the creditor is looking at it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sole_proprietorship


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Update:
As predicted, the inquiries were relatively painless, but the new accounts reporting are hurting the FAKOs, actually quite substantially. (Much more than I would have predicted!)

With three new accounts showing on all three bureaus (so 4 more new accounts plus balances still set to show later), the FAKOs sit at:
759 TU / 778 EX / 713 EQ

That is down 14, 24, and a whopping 63 points (on EQ) down compared to where they sat before the micro-rama:
773 TU / 802 EX / 776 EQ

As soon as my wife's aged CapOne 0% BT expires, I think I'll have her add me back on as AU to bump up the average age a bit. (That won't be until a couple months, but may give a helpful score boost.)

I am analyzing a few BT plans, ranging from probably the least conservative I might consider, to the most aggressive. It can be helpful to see how profit varies with risk and the different "options".

I am most concerned with letting combined debt > 40% of HHI report. I know there is evidence some issuers use this as a trigger point for A/A. However, there is quite some extra profit to be made so it might be worth taking a little bit extra of risk of A/A. In even my most aggressive borrowing option, overall utilization will only reach a modest 34%, so that won't be an issue at all. What I am potentially worried about is letting my combined reported unsecured revolving debt exceed 40% HHI. (My most conservative borrowing scenario has it at 40% HHI, and in my most aggressive it rises to mid 40%'s HHI.)

I am playing with a few options:
* utilizing more heavily 12-month 0% debt options (Chase, Citi) rather than 6-month 0% debt (Am Ex IN:LA) or alternately, triggering an additional BT on Chase ($99 bt fee) when Am Ex 6-mo BT is paid off.
* paying off the discover Motiva 2.2k balance (to allow borrowing more debt at 0% for same total reported borrowed.)
* how to distribute the utilization across the accounts (biased to any accounts, or more evenly.)

I think my goals are changing from maintaining "refinance mortgage at any moment" credit scores, into more of a "take more BT profit while keeping a comfortable risk of A/A." So, I am updating my plans to better reflect my new goals.

Edit:
Reallocation also went smoothly with BOA, bumping up my NEA Visa's CL to just a few hundred shy of $50k.


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jakeru said:Update:
As predicted, the inquiries were relatively painless, but the new accounts reporting are hurting the FAKOs, actually quite substantially.

Wait till you see the impact of high balances. It will make this stuff look like preschool.

Actually, if you REALLY want to see some drama, don't pay one of your cards for four months. That's a fun one.


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Update:

All cards are in now, except the BOA "Signature" upgrade, which is several days past when they said it would arrive. Seems to be "missing in action." I wonder if it's just some unexpected processing delay, or whether someone actually declined me for the upgrade. Either way I don't really care (my combined credit limits are already nearly 1.5x HHI, so I don't need to extend them further, just for the sake of extending them.) I wasted no time waiting for BOA, and rolled a BT after statement closing, taking my utilization from 0% all the way to 100% (hitting a new "High Balance" of almost $50k.)

New accounts reporting: I have already reported here that Citi and BOA reported their new account relatively quickly after approval. As of today, all the rest of the issuers I applied with (Chase, Am Ex, Cap One) have still not yet reported new accounts, and may be waiting until either the first statement date gets reached, or perhaps the end of the month. I'll know soon.

Another interesting difference I noticed between issuers, is that Cap One and Chase responded very quickly to request to change the statement date (basically, effecting the change immediately.) The other issuers (BOA, Citi, Am Ex) seem to be waiting until the previously scheduled statement date gets reached first, before changing the statement date for the following cycle.

Am Ex CLI update: indeed the Am Ex CLI response letter arrived and it gave the "account needs to be opened for 30 days or 3 months until last CLI" rejection. I am still waiting for their BT check in the mail. This is also the only BT I have yet to complete.

Citi Associated update: The card just arrived last night.

I discovered one oddity about this card: citi's online system doesn't seem to allow adding the associated card into to an existing "www.accountonline.com" login profile. It directs you to "associatedcreditcard.accountonline.com" (seemingly, to crease a brand new profile to access the associated card?) I am wondering if this is necessary; it would be nice to be able to manage the associated card from my main citi profile.

-edit-
I also just put in a request with a Citi CSR to reallocate 7k from Citi Associated to my Home Rebate. After putting me on hold for a few minutes, she returned claiming she had submitted the request and told me to check back to see if it has processed in 24-48 hrs.


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Jake, I got the same 1-2 days response from Citi on my CLR request (upromise to citibiz). I got 3-5 days from Chase, but it was done overnight, so maybe Citi will also surprise me.


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Citi Reallocation update:
I had to go to great lengths and use the retention department to get it done, but I finally got credit line moved from Citi Associated card to Citi Home Rebate. I moved over $7k, leaving behind $500 on the associated card, building a $49k home rebate card, which dropped the BT utilization from 99% to 85%. (At the time of reallocation, the destination card didn't have a "live" 0% BT offer on it.) I still had to wait a day for the retention supervisor to process the request, but I did verify the new credit line is now showing up in online banking. (Venturion was right about my first reallocation attempt through front line CSRs getting shot down - reportedly due to "card incompatibility.")

Other updates:
* Am Ex IN:LA convenience checks arrived (And I'm debating whether to pull the BT trigger now, or wait for about one week to first try for a 30 day CLI.)

* Both new Chase accounts got reported to the CRAs following their statement closings (one with $18.8k BT balance, and about 55% utilization.) TU FAKO dropped by the usual 10 point figure. EQ dropped slightly (~2-3 pts.)

* EX actually increased, perhaps due to aging of account or inquiries (a few of each just reached the 12 month level, with the current month changing to March).

* Received first interest payments from my 6% APY rewards checking accounts.

* some bizarre pre-approval behavior coming into my mailbox: Wa Mu solicited me with no less than THREE identical credit card pre-approved offers all on the same day, in indentically-packaged envelopes. Usually I see them spaced out at least by a week. (The offer was their usual "0% on purchases for xx months when you BT now!" Cap One also sent me out another "up to $30k credit line" pre-approved offer, identical in every way to the one they sent previously and that I applied and was approved for two weeks ago. Citi sent me a professional pre-approved, with their usual 0% 12 months no BT fee and 3% rewards in some categories (same offer as available to general public.) My wife now has no new accounts in 12 month period, and even with some high utilization reporting (> 50% overall, < 89% individual) is getting some pretty attractived pre-approved's. Two example from Chase: 0% 15-month no BT fee "national geographic" or "platinum" (we've been getting tons of these platinum pre-approveds, but this is the longest no-fee BT term seen on them I have yet seen.)


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I'd be tempted to apply for one of the WAMU preapprovals. Those, by reputation, tend to be the ONLY way to get good credit limits from them


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I thought about Wa Mu earlier, but ruled them out because the 0% APR was only for purchases. It seems Wa Mu has dried up the 0% on BT offers with capped BT fees that they used to have. AFAIK, Wa Mu also doesn't allow reallocation or consolidation, so it's not even clear if I did get a $30k credit line from them, that I would profit from utilizing it any point in the future.

Even if I executed my most aggressive BT utilization plan, my overall utilization would still be just under 35%, so seems like I would get little benefit from further increasing my combined credit limits just for the sake of reducing overall utilization.


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Fairly juicy pre-approved arrived yesterday:
* Chase Freedom "Plus" (Visa Signature) with 25k bonus points on first purchase. (redeem 25k points for airline ticket, or possibly redeem 20k points for $250 cash and have 5k points left over.) Besides the bonus, the other terms looked the same as the standard publicized Freedom "Plus" (unlimited rewards in 6 out of 15 categories, $30 yearly "program" fee very well buried in fine print, but waived 1st year)

Would have been nice if I had this offer before I applied for the $100 bonus Freedom, however I've already done my apps, and think I will just see how things settle. I think part of my credit card strategy is being in it for the long term and that would be best accomplished by exercising restraint from time to time.

credit score update
With all new accounts showing, except for Capital One and 2x Am Ex, and also with one large-ish balance showing (18.8k from Chase), PM123 FAKOs are:
TU: 749
EX: 780
EQ: 710

other updates
Haven't triggered Am Ex BT yet. Tentatively planning on first doing a 30 day crack-CLI.

BOA NEA Am Ex convenience checks arrived! I plan to reallocate my NEA Plat Plus CL over to it and use it after its 0% expires at the end of the month.

Already received and deposited a $50 bonus check from Chase Free Cash Rewards (they qualified the BT as a bonus-worthy transaction.)

Citi Platinum Am Ex is a great daily spender so far. My wife and I are using it everywhere Am Ex is accepted. Where there is no Am Ex luv, I have been using my Cap One Visa. Poor discover got sock drawered, and I have yet to use Chase Freedom (although I will probalby cycle it in there sometime.) Am Ex Gold has gotten a bit of action and will be sure to charge $500 required purchases in the next couple months to get the 50k bonus pts.


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The AMX 0% promo rate turns into a pumpkin fairly soon after you get it. Make sure it doesn't expire on you before you do the BT.


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markkundinger - you're right on the IN:LA BT; looks like I'll have about a 2 week timeline after putting in the 30-day CLI request to get the BT processed.

Other update:
My BoA NEA Visa Signature card arrived today! (Replacing my 1-year old NEA Visa Platinum Plus.) I called and activated it, and then verified immediately in online banking that the new number was showing up instead of the old number. The near-$50k, 100% utilized credit limit was still in tact.

It will be interesting to see after I pay this balance off and the statement cycles next time, if the reported credit limit stops, and if the reported high balance sticks. Seems like perfect timing for my upcoming NEA Visa -> NEA Am Ex reallocation.

It's also kind of cool to have a card that you never see advertised. To add to the "exclusive" cachet, it's a black card too.


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Hmm you're doing the reward checking thing? I'm just worried I'd botch it up so I went with the Provident 4.5% savings.
Still worried about rate cuts though since all the major banks cut rates recently, so who knows what'll happen.

Wish I got a sweet offer like that Chase freedom offer you got. Oh well, there's always next year

I ended up getting 9K from Citi so far. Might hold onto it like you said since it's good for 12 months (still haven't heard back from my business app yet, but it looks like they pulled TU for both apps, so I hope it won't be a problem).


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Cirrus - $9k is about twice the $4.5k they gave me for my first line; so not bad! It still might be worth waiting for a CLI before BT'ing. More info on my citi CLI story here. Putting purchases on the card may be key for getting a generous CLI.

I'm surprised you didn't receive equally juicy pre-approved offers as well with your high 700 credit scores? If you weren't - something was holding you back, either your credit history wasn't long enough or something, or you were opted out of the pre-approved offers list. Besides waiting for better pre-approveds to arrive, I would have also considered waited for the Chase credit limit increases to report before pulling the trigger on your apps. But hey, it's a done deal now, and I'm sure you'll make out fine.

The rewards checking is more maintenance work than a high yield savings, but I figure I'll profit about $130 per month doing it, so it's worth it for me. I used a credit union search web site to locate a local credit union offering it I qualified for in the field of membership. My wife and I visited the branch and opened up one account for each of us (to double the limit that can earn 6%.)

My first month was automatically qualified for the 6% rate, no transaction required. I got my 6% qualifying transaction in for March by making a bunch of small transactions through a local utility company that just started allowing online credit card payments. Their system allows you to specify the transaction amount, and it accepted 50 cents, and spat back authorization number, so kept repeated it to get my needed number of monthly transactions. I thought I was home free, but next morning I got a call from a human to "verify suspicious activity", so it apparently got flagged, which I'd like to avoid for next month's transactions.

update:
Visa Signature "no pre-set spending limit" (NPSL) feature... worthless?
Over the weekend I "tested" this feature by attempting to charge a $30 restaurant meal on the (100% utilized, near $50k CL) Visa Signature card. The transaction was denied! The feature is worthless as far as I can tell - didn't even allow an overage less than .1% credit limit.


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