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Business Credit Reporting and Strategies - the FWF way

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   posted: Feb. 7, 2008 @ 3:38p
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What can we learn from creditboards about business credit?

There is a tremendous amount of information about business credit at the infamous creditboards, but their goals seem to be different than the typical member of FWF.

The discussion at CB seems to be all about getting business credit without a personal guarantee. Pardon the gross generalization, but I’m assuming this is because many creditboard members have…ummm…less-than-perfect personal credit, so PG-free business credit is the only type of credit available. Also, and again, pardon the generalization, there are many CB members who seem to be hoarding credit for credit’s sake, regardless of profit potential.

In contrast, FWFers (especially the BT investing crowd) are more focused on obtaining credit because it MAKES US MONEY. We typically have excellent personal credit, and we are exploiting it for maximum gain. We are looking to business credit to enhance our arbitrage game and are more than willing to use personal guarantees if necessary.

MikeR397 started an excellent thread extolling the virtues of business credit, but I’d like this thread to be focused on 2 business credit topics: 1) Reporting and 2) Strategies.

Reporting

We all know that business credit is hidden from our personal reports. However, business lines obviously report somewhere. That leads to a lot of questions:

What do we know about the business CRAs?
How do business scores work? (e.g., What’s D&B and how will a paydex score of 80 help me?)
How can we monitor and manage the information our reports contain?
Which lenders pull which report(s) and how do they use these reports to make decisions? Which lenders report lines to which business CRAs?

Strategies

To what extent do which lenders treat personal and business credit as separate buckets?
Can you create multiple business entities to create multiple credit buckets? If so, how can we exploit this? I’ve always assumed everything ties back to your SSN, but perhaps this isn’t the case.
How can we time biz and personal AORs for maximum effectiveness?

I know I’ve asked a bunch of questions without providing many answers. I know a tiny bit about the questions above, and I’ll add in a few things when I get a chance. Regardless, this thread should be a work in progress, and I’m hoping to tap into the collective wisdom of the forum.

Message edited by: lhendricks92 on 2008-02-09 17:58:23 CST
   posted: Feb. 7, 2008 @ 3:38p

Who Reports Where?

              EQ Commercial          D&B          Exp Biz
Advanta             yes              no             yes
Am.Ex               yes              no             no
BB&T                yes              no             no
BofA/FIA            yes              no             no
Elan/Us Bank        yes              no             no
Chase               yes              no             no
Discover            yes              no             yes
Capital One         yes              yes            no
Wells Fargo         yes              ?              no
Citibank            no               no             no 
National City       no               no             no
Juniper/Barclays    no               no             no

Message edited by: jackcrawfish on 2009-04-17 10:33:21 CDT

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   posted: Feb. 7, 2008 @ 3:47p
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Awesome thread, lhendricks92.

I got my chocolate and my laptop and watching .

Message edited by: tolamapS on 2008-02-07 15:47:50 CST
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   posted: Feb. 7, 2008 @ 3:56p
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lhendricks92 said:The discussion at CB seems to be all about getting business credit without a personal guarantee. Pardon the gross generalization, but I’m assuming this is because many creditboard members have…ummm…less-than-perfect personal credit, so PG-free business credit is the only type of credit available. Also, and again, pardon the generalization, there are many CB members who seem to be hoarding credit for credit’s sake, regardless of profit potential.

I've been scanning the CB thread. Haven't really seen much on what they are doing with the biz credit. Real biz use I'd guess. Doesn't seem to be about 0% offers. I suppose if you get the credit without a personal guarantee that works even better than 0% offers if you don't pay it back, but that doesn't seem to be the point.


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   posted: Feb. 7, 2008 @ 3:57p
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I recently did a mini business AOR and consolidated some credit. One thing I noticed that I wanted to share with the community was that Chase personal cannot reallocate to a business credit account. Chase business can but is only open 8am to 8pm. (I think EST) If you call outside of those hours, you'll get a personal account rep. The first time I did this the rep simply told me that she couldn't reallocate to my business card and did not clarify that with the fact that if I called during business hours I could get a rep who could.


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   posted: Feb. 7, 2008 @ 3:59p
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Yeah, I don't really get it, either. Hence this thread. I don't know if having a paydex score with D&B helps you get more and better 0% biz credit or what.


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   posted: Feb. 7, 2008 @ 4:04p
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xxjt said:One thing I noticed that I wanted to share with the community was that Chase personal cannot reallocate to a business credit account.

Yes, they can. I've done it. Read several AOR threads where it has been done.


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   posted: Feb. 7, 2008 @ 4:43p
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http://www.fatwallet.com/t/52/751932/


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   posted: Feb. 7, 2008 @ 6:43p
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Just to be clear, I did not say "Chase cannot reallocate credit onto a business line" but _Chase personal_ cannot. You need to talk to the _Chase business_ credit reps, which are only available 8 am to 8 pm EST.


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   posted: Feb. 7, 2008 @ 6:48p
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I'm not sure it's a helpful piece of information, but a friend of mine -- recently of CapOne -- told me that biz cards charge merchants more than personal cards, the banks keep the difference and the merchants eat it.
This makes banks more likely to give cards and higher CLs for biz.


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   posted: Feb. 7, 2008 @ 7:52p
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Glad to see this thread Lh


There is so much we don't know about biz credit

I have received 5 or 6 pre-approved business cards but I've never known how they targeted me.

My latest offer is from CitBusiness for a 0%APR until May 09 $50 cap BT (no annual fee) Comes with a "Personal Business Assistant" (?) and $100 in Money-Back Certificates

Small print on the back says: Citibank selected the Business for this offer because the Business met certain criteria of creditworthiness based on its credit record maintained at commercial credit bureaus.

I haven't figured out where CitiBiz reports yet (not EQ Commercial or D&B or Exp)
There is another credit card database at D&B that I haven't figured out how to check yet. It's possible they use that.

As discussed in other threads I have verified that AMEX, Wells Fargo, Advanta, Chase, Home Depot & Lowes all report on EQ Commercial.


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   posted: Feb. 7, 2008 @ 8:14p
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D&B and Experian Biz is very important for any biz.
I have a US bank business card and I got it with no hard pull on personal because I had a paydex score on D&B and a EXP Biz score of 85.
It is very important also for securing BLOC. Banks want a well rounded business file.
I have received Home Depot Store Cards and Home Depot Bus MC with no pp.
I also received Keybank Biz MC and a couple Chase cards that asked for my TIN with no pp.
I have also been able to get increases on Biz cards due to having a strong D&B and ex biz file.


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   posted: Feb. 7, 2008 @ 8:33p
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I assumed they focus on no PG because they know they'll eventually default. Most people seeking biz credit there are doing so because they blew up their personal credit. The average CB'er goes through a cycle of seeking credit, destroying credit, cleaning up credit, and over again.

They've also screwed up processes for applying for biz credit and even credit reporting due to their reckless abandon and addict-like desire for credit lines. No thanks. I don't need to learn anything from them.

Message edited by: atobias on 2008-02-07 20:33:42 CST
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   posted: Feb. 7, 2008 @ 9:13p
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---

Message edited by: ColbyS on 2008-03-11 20:54:14 CDT
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   posted: Feb. 7, 2008 @ 9:17p
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ColbyS said:LaJollaInvestor said:My latest offer is from CitBusiness for a 0%APR until May 09 $50 cap BT (no annual fee) Comes with a "Personal Business Assistant" (?) and $100 in Money-Back Certificates

Small print on the back says: Citibank selected the Business for this offer because the Business met certain criteria of creditworthiness based on its credit record maintained at commercial credit bureaus.

I haven't figured out where CitiBiz reports yet (not EQ Commercial or D&B or Exp)
There is another credit card database at D&B that I haven't figured out how to check yet. It's possible they use that.

I received this offer as well, but want to verify it doesn't report to personal before pulling the trigger. Can anyone verify that it definitely does not report to personal?

Good point-- wish I had thought of that. The "commercial credit bureau" and the fact that it was mailed to my office (not home)
made me assume (usually a bad idea)

Curious if anyone knows for sure.


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   posted: Feb. 7, 2008 @ 9:22p
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One thing I'll add (and I'll update my other business thread as well) is that it appears the companies are not being so generous with the 0 years in business/$0 revenue Sole Prop anymore. I'm only basing this on my roomates very recent experience of getting denied from all business cards so far (few pending) b/c "Unable to verify business." This is with 810 FICO and $200+ HHI.

This occured 6 months after I was able to get $100k plus for my mom with $0 revenue and 0 years in business with the same cards.. (see quick summary). Perhaps it is another credit crunch change.

For myself, I put 2 years in business with about $1k in eBay sales (which is accurate), and was able to get about $50k of business credit. I attribute my lower amount due to my short and limited individual credit history, which is why I strongly believe(d) that busienss credit is still heavily reliant on your personal credit reports, maybe more so than your business reports. This seems to maybe be changing now.

Good post lhendricks, I'll be watching when I can squeeze in some FWF time away from the studies.

Message edited by: MikeR397 on 2008-02-07 21:25:13 CST
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   posted: Feb. 7, 2008 @ 9:25p
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I have Citi Business w/ TYN and Citi Business Premier Pass and neither shows on my report, except for the inquiries - which got combined into one since I applied the same day. Citi Professional DOES report.


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   posted: Feb. 7, 2008 @ 9:28p
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Tom9999 said:I have Citi Business w/ TYN and Citi Business Premier Pass and neither shows on my report, except for the inquiries - which got combined into one since I applied the same day. Citi Professional DOES report.Thanks. This is a well known that the Professional reports on your personal lines.

Also, did you get a higher CL with the professional than the other business cards? Traditioanlly I think the Professional gives large lines, and I'm wondering if that is still true.


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   posted: Feb. 7, 2008 @ 9:31p
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Another aspect I've seen many people overlook with business credit:

Just b/c you have your Chase business credit hidden from your credit report (so you can still get a good BOA line) does NOT necessairly mean that you can get more Chase personal credit. While Chase can't see it on your credit report, they do know (I am pretty sure of this) about how much credit you have on the business side with them. I do know some issuers can't see your business credit when looking at personal, but it seems many can tell. I know Chase and Citi know how many total cards you've applied for regardless. Just another thing to be aware of.

Message edited by: MikeR397 on 2008-02-07 21:32:32 CST
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   posted: Feb. 7, 2008 @ 9:39p
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Message edited by: ColbyS on 2008-03-11 20:54:30 CDT
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