SecondCor521’s Somewhat-Less-Lazy-O-Rama A0R 2.0 – March 4, 2008

Pop some popcorn, grab a beer, 2Cor’s second Lazy-O-Rama is here! (Hey, that rhymes…)

Narrative History Since Lazy-O-Rama A0R 1.0 – January 23, 2007

My Lazy-O-Rama 1.0 went smoothly. I ended up with around $92K of BT money about a year ago, and stashed it in the usual HYSA’s. I only made one notable error and that was sending in one of my monthly payments to FNBO both by check and online. I re-upped one of the cards a few months ago that had a no-fee offer. I made about $4700 in interest and about $800 in bonuses. I experienced no adverse action.

I’ve cracked and danced my AM3X cards a number of times over the past six months. I’ve reallocated via their web page to get a large line with them on my personal account. I also love buttoned my BofA AM3X. While refi’ing my mortgage with PenFed, I took the opportunity to CLI my Visa with them as well. In doing so I discovered that the mortgage credit pull could not be used for the CC CLI (they use different “styles” of FICO scores).

I used all of my non-BT cards at least once in the last few months just to show activity; Citi had commented negatively on this fact at some point when I had asked them for a CLI. Apparently as a result of this usage I was rewarded with larger credit lines on two cards (BOA AM3X and USBank). Shortly after paying down my FNBO BT to 29.99%, they also rewarded me with an increased line.

Most of my A0R 1.0 money was in 12 month BT’s. I paid those all off and disputed the balances with the CRA’s. I did have a 15 month offer with FNBO that I decided to pay down to 29.99% and let it run until it expires on 5/1/08.

One other wrinkle that turned up is that I applied to refinance my mortgage through PenFed on 1/23/08; I moved from a 5.75% fixed 30 year to a 4.625% fixed 15 year. By the time they pulled my credit, my score was 749 (TU FAKO). I decided to push out my A0R 2.0 by about two weeks because of this. I got very lucky with the timing of this opportunity matching up well with the end of my A0R 1.0.

Also as a result of my refi, there is a window starting March 3rd where I have no mortgage balance reflecting on my credit reports. I’m thinking this may be a good time to do an A0R .

Goals for A0R 2.0

1. Replace the HELOC I had to cancel when I refinanced with PenFed.
2. Harvest as much 0% capped-fee BT $$$ as possible.
....... I’d like to get over $200K of BT money
....... I’d also like to have my “2008 interest earned” > “2008 interest paid”
3. Obtain CC signup, 1st purchase, and bank bonuses.
....... I’d specifically like to be able to get enough Citi TYP to get a plane ticket to visit my sister sometime this summer.
4. Be more suave and sophisticated about the whole thing.
5. Be more aggressive.

“Somewhat Less Lazy” Tactics

I’m being somewhat less lazy this time in an effort to increase my income from this activity:

1. I’m doing a lot more prep work for this A0R; I started working on it in a low-key way in November. I’ve also written up a document offline that details my plan. This includes a lot of miscellaneous tips and tricks I’ve gleaned from reading a ton of FWF threads.
2. Included in the prep work was making my business look more business-like; see the history below.
3. I’ve signed up for some credit monitoring services in order to make sure my report is clean prior to launching A0R 2.0. I am also just curious to see what happens with my credit score as my A0R 1.0 balances get paid off and my A0R 2.0 accounts and balances show up. I will probably keep them afterwards for bumpage.
4. Depending on how many offers I find, I’ll include offers for less than 12 months 0%, but I’ll still mostly insist on $75-or-less capped offers that I can apply for online. I did allow one phone app to creep into the list.
5. I’ll be going to 89.99%-BT fee on each personal card up to 49.99% overall utilization and 94.99%-BT fee on business cards. As long as I can stay within those utilization limits, I’ll do a BT on any line that I can get 60 $K-months of BT.

Current Personal Credit Profile

Age: 38.77
HHI: Low six figures
AM3X HHI: 2007 W2 salary + interest income + schedule E income
Credit history: 29 years and 6 months per Equ!fax
Average account age: 3 years 10 months per Equ!fax
Utilization: 1% per Equ!fax
Real estate accounts: 0 active mortgages showing; 1 open zero balance HELOC; 5 old paid mortgages
Installment accounts: 1 active student loan ($13K @ 4.5% fixed 15 year graduated payments); 5 old paid accounts

Issuer      Card                         Age (Yrs)     Bal       CL     Util   Comments
AM3X 	    Costco TrueEarnings AM3X 	      3.42	 0   99,600	
BofA 	    WorldPoints Rewards AM3X 	      2.33	 0   37,800	
Chase 	    Disney Rewards Visa 	      1.08	 0   32,600	
Chase 	    SonyCard Visa 	              1.17	 0   35,000	
Chase 	    Flexible Rewards Signature Visa   2.50	 0      500	
Chase 	    Non-signature Visa 	              2.25	 0      500	
Chase 	    Visa 	                     11.17	 0      500	
Chase 	    Freedom Visa 	              1.17	 0      500	
Citi 	    Simplicity Rewards MC 	      2.59	 0    1,300	
Citi 	    Platinum Select MC 	              2.42	 0    1,300	
Citi 	    Professional MC 	              1.17	 0    1,000	
Citi 	    Diamond Preferred Rewards MC      1.17	 0   38,500	
Citi 	    PremierPass MC 	              1.59	 0    2,000	
Citi 	    AT&T Universal Rewards MC 	      1.17	 0    1,300	
D3ll 	    Preferred Account 	              1.84	 0    7,000	
Discover    Platinum Card 	              1.67	 0   15,000	
FNB Omaha   Platinum Edition Visa 	      1.08   4,026   16,700   24.11%   0% BT until 5/1/08
HSBC 	    GM Flexible Earnings MC 	      1.17	 0      600		
PenFed 	    Platinum Cash Rewards Visa 	      1.17     118   50,000    0.24%   Daily spender
USAA 	    Platinum MC        	              2.25	 0   30,000		
USBank 	    Reserve Line 	              2.08	 0    4,000		
USBank 	    Platinum Visa 	              1.75	 0   10,000		
USBank 	    Premier Line 	              1.75	 0    8,000

Current Business Credit Profile

Sole proprietor
Years in business: 1.25
Business income: $24,602 (2008 projected)
DUNS number applied for 1/22/08

Issuer    Card                       Age (Yrs) Bal       CL   Util   Comments
Advanta   Platinum Business MC            1.17   0    5,000          Closed to apply for new card
AM3X 	  SimplyCash Business AM3X 	  1.17	 0    9,700
AM3X 	  FreedomPass Business AM3X 	  1.17	 0    9,700
AM3X 	  Platinum Business Credit AM3X   1.17	 0    9,700
Chase 	  Business Cash Rewards Visa 	  1.17	 0   35,000
Chase 	  GM Business MC 	          1.17	 0    5,000

Phase 1: HELOC Replacement

h1 Digital Federal Credit Union Equity Line Plus
..... 100% LTV no fee
..... Membership through previous employer
..... May not be able to do if PenFed doesn’t record their first mortgage in time

Phase 2: Business and Personal Credit Cards

"Next time I'll probably be more selective on which cards I apply for." - 2Cor521, A0R1.0.

All lists are in application order. In the original list, I primarily grouped them by expected profit. In my second list, I culled a lot of cards as recommended by FWF and also mostly grouped by issuer. In my final list (found in the QuickSummary), I grouped entirely by issuer, then sorted by expected aggregate profit by issuer, and then I just reorganized things based on some subjective intuitive evaluation of what I wanted to apply for first.

Cards without links can be easily found at CardSelection.

1P = First purchase
TYP = http://www.thankyou.com
CS = http://www.cardselection.com

The original and second lists were moved to a post in this thread here. The final list can be found in the Quick Summary below.

Phase 3: HYSA-style Bank Accounts for BT Stash

b0 - Provident Direct 4.50% APY
b1 - Alliant Credit Union $5 min $100 to earn 4.35% APY
b2 - Shore Bank 4.15% APY
b3 - Vanguard Prime MM Fund VMMXX $3K minimum 3.84% APY
b4 - IndyMac Bank e-Money Market $1K minimum 4.05% APY

Phase 4: Bank Account Bonuses

TDA - TDAmeritrade $1100 in bonuses - - - > $1,100
..... Open online here and fund at least $25K -> $100
..... Call and apply promo code 517
..... Deposit at least $30K
..... Make 5 trades
..... Receive $1K bonus
..... Keep account open 9 months

k1a - Chase Free personal checking $125x4 +$25x2 bonus - - - > $550
..... Open online here or try via phone to get coupons to stack
..... $125x2 coupon code: 3xxxxxxxxxxxxxx1 (expires 5/31)
..... $25x2 coupon code: 3xxxxxxxxxxxxxx2, 3xxxxxxxxxxxxxx2 (expire 4/8)
..... Must set up DD (use ACH push)
..... Request no checks be ordered
..... Inform fathickory via email that you’ve used codes (email A0R2.0 folder)
..... Close after 6 months

– or –

k1b - Chase checking $125x4 bonus - - - > $500
..... Hard pull
..... Log into Chase then use this link
..... Call in same day 800.935.9935 to cancel check order

k2 - BofA Checking $75x4 - - - > $300
..... Offer code AOU260208
..... Check for fees first

k3 - Chase $200x1 + $50x1 biz checking - - - > $250
..... Expires 3/15
..... Deposit $500
..... Try over the phone
..... Coupon in physical folder
..... Ask for Chase Business Complete package
..... Request they waive fees first year
..... Request no checks be ordered
..... Stack with $50 referral code from dpjnyc (PC A0R 2.0 folder)
..... Inform dpjnyc via email that you’ve used code (email A0R2.0 folder)
..... No min for first year
..... Close after 6 months

k4 - ING Direct $25x4 bonus - - - > $100

k5 - OptionsXPress $100x1 bonus - - - > $100
..... Expires 3/31
..... Deposit $500
..... No hard pull on no margin account
..... Choose Xpress Fund sweep option
..... Close after 6 months

k6 - Wells Fargo $50x1 bonus with $100 initial deposit (targeted offer) - - - > $50
..... Expired 2/29
..... 2/25/08 – Opened account with $101

k7 - Amtrust Direct $50x1 bonus with $100 deposit for 3 months (targeted offer) - - - > $50
..... Expired 2/29
..... 2/26/08 – transfer set up for $101x4

k8 - LaSalle Bank $100x4 - - - > $400
..... No hard pull
..... Open two accounts (Convenience Checking and Stmt Savings)
..... Fund both accounts with up to $1K on PenFed ca$h back card
..... $250/$100 minimums in checking/savings
..... Request no checks (probably not a problem)
..... 1P on debit card within 60 days
..... Close after 6 months

k9 - BofA Business Checking $100 - - - > $100
..... Expires 3/31
..... Hard pull if no existing BofA checking
..... Click here to open online
..... Fees waived if you have a BofA personal account

Phase 5: CLI existing low-limit cards

Depending on the level of adrenaline in my bloodstream at this point, I will CLI my existing low-limit cards. "Low-limit" in this case is a judgment call.

Phase 6: To be decided

I will post a new thread on A0R Phase 6 if I decide to proceed.

FICO History (TU/EX/EQ) Up through A0R

Pulling daily with Key Bank www.myprivacymatters.com ($1 for 30 day trial), 24ProtectPlus www.24protectplus.com ($29.95 for a year), www.creditkarma.com (free), and www.equ!fax.com credit watch service (free, but allegedly not good for bumpage). I canceled my Key Bank product after 29 days…they tried charging me $12.95 for my first month but refunded that when I called to complain. They have not disabled my login, however.

History below only includes dates where something changed.

1 year inquiries are 2/2/3. Inquiries in the last six months are 1/1/2 which represent the PenFed mortgage refi and a pull by Wells Fargo when I opened an account for a bonus last week (even though they said they wouldn’t pull – grr!)

Date | 2 Year Inquiries | Cards with Balances | TU Score | CK Score | Comments

01/15/08 | 06, 07, 12 | 7, 7, 7 | 721 | ??? | Started pulling
01/19/08 | 05, 07, 12 | 7, 6, 7 | 721 | ??? | Zero balances starting to report
01/24/08 | 05, 07, 12 | 7, 5, 7 | 721
01/28/08 | 05, 07, 12 | 5, 4, 6 | 749
01/29/08 | 05, 07, 12 | 5, 4, 4 | 749
01/30/08 | 06, 08, 13 | 5, 4, 4 | 747 | 839 | PenFed refi inquiries hit
02/05/08 | 05, 08, 14 | 5, 3, 4 | 749 | 843 | Inquiries start dropping off TU and PenFed CLI inquiry shows up
02/07/08 | 04, 08, 14 | 5, 2, 4 | 751
02/08/08 | 04, 08, 14 | 3, 1, 2 | 775
02/09/08 | 03, 08, 14 | 2, 1, 2 | 777
02/11/08 | 02, 08, 14 | 2, 1, 2 | 778
02/12/08 | 01, 08, 14 | 2, 1, 1 | 780
02/13/08 | 01, 08, 14 | 1, 1, 1 | 780 | 895 | All balances reporting as they should
02/22/08 | 01, 08, 14 | 2, 2, 2 | 780 | 898 | Small balance showing up on my PenFed Visa
02/24/08 | 00, 08, 14 | 2, 2, 2 | 782 | 898 | Last TU inquiry has been bumped
03/03/08 | 00, 08, 15 | 2, 2, 2 | 782 | 898 | All three reports show mortgage paid off; score didn't increase
03/04/08 | 00, 08, 15 | 2, 2, 2 | 782 | 898 | Last pull before A0R

>> Post-A0R FAKO history can be found below in the Quick Summary.

A0R 2.0 History

01/06/08 – Began process of paying off all A0R1.0 balances except the FNBO card, which I paid down to just under 30% utilization
01/20/08 – Started disputing balances today after the various credit card companies have a zero balance on their website
01/22/08 – Requested DUNS number for my business
01/23/08 – Applied for PenFed 15 year mortgage refi
02/05/08 – Request and receive PenFed CLI to $50K
02/09/08 – Started compiling list of applications
02/11/08 – Signed PenFed mortgage refi papers
02/15/08 – PenFed refi finalized
02/19/08 -- Added my business listing to 411
02/23/08 – CC list pretty much finalized
02/23/08 – Tried disputing 6 EQ inquiries
02/25/08 – Canceled existing Advanta biz card in order to reapply
03/02/08 – Posted plan on FWF
03/03/08 - Culled and reordered list based on FWF feedback
03/04/08 – D-Day

>> Post A0R periodic summaries are posted separately to the thread below.

Lessons Learned

I'll try to note my lessons learned here. If you want to be thorough, read the whole thread.

Pre-A0R

1. It has oft been reported on these boards that PenFed will reuse a credit pull within 30, 60, or 90 days if you ask for a CLI on their credit card. Unfortunately, PenFed cannot use a credit pull from a mortgage (refi) application in order to consider a CLI request. They will pull your credit again. Small oops.
2. If you’re refinancing your mortgage it might be a good time to do an A0R in the gap where your old mortgage is reported as paid off and your new mortgage isn’t reflected yet.
3. Grouping by issuer is a good thing for two reasons:
..... a. It probably shows the best possible credit profile to each issuer because the earlier pullers don't get a "second look" at your later, inquiry-trashed report.
..... b. It gets you into the groove of the application filling -- usually the same fields are in the same locations, etc.

A0R

1. Don't do an A0R starting at 9:00 pm Eastern. It's late, you're tired, and so it's slower going. More importantly, if you have to do any phone applications, there is a high likelihood that whoever you are trying to call is closed.
2. It seems that putting a BT request in with the app would have increased my instant approval numbers. I don't know if I would have ended up with any more credit, though.
3. Roboform is useful, but be sure to check the information over carefully before submitting, especially if you are intermixing business and personal applications -- "Business name" in the first case refers to "2Cor521 Enterprises" and in the second case refers to my day job employer.
4. CapOne will instantly reject a second application.

Post-A0R

1. It has been reported on this thread that BT's to a Citi card can exceed your Citi CL. I sure hope that's the case, because I may end up in that situation.
2. PenFed treats bank opening deposits using their credit card as cash advances, but as long as you PIF each month you won't incur finance charges.

Props

I’ll probably miss a few, but thanks are due to:

SIS and DaveHanson – for pioneering
fathickory and dpjnyc – for the referrals
Glitch99 – for all the good comments
lhendricks92 – for the USBank Baylor card
elleve – for the “google” credit card
lillazyfats81 – for the BofA credit card
markkundinger – for the humor
brushwood – for the hint to use IE
win333 – for the enthusiasm and the PM on EQ inqs
DreamKrusher, dvm395, paperchaser80, and desidealmaster – for the bank bonuses
brushwood, xjagox, Sparhawk24, Alimo, brianLp518, jakeru, Venturion, ShaneM, Hindustani, mhesidence, djspray, thisguy, devildoc, dmlavigne1, MikeR397, jairocon, polardude, alchemize, and others – for the A0Rs

- and of course -

everyone who posted feedback on this thread!

Some Stats

Existing credit: $505,700
Initial list of phase 2 applications: 56
First revised list of phase 2 applications: 35
Final list of phase 2 applications: 36
Projected CC bonuses: $1,033.50
Projected bank bonuses: $2,200
Projected BT $$$: No idea

Questions for FWF Gurus

1. I’m considering applying for an AM3X IN:XX card, CLRing via the website, and then doing a 6 month 0% BT. How much would people recommend I take, utilization-wise? Also, which strategy is better: (a) take 89.99% BT in order to prevent loss of CL if AM3X clamps down, or (b) take 50% BT in order to try to avoid FR or A/A?
2. Should I close any of my existing puny (CL < $1,000) cards? My inclination is to just leave them for now.
3. Should I freeze Experian? When? How?
4. My TU bumped pretty quickly; none of my 14 EQ inquiries have been bumped. In general, is this normal?
5. How many CapOne apps can one do?

In general, any feedback on, or questions about, any of the above is welcome!

2Cor521

I just applied 3 AMEX IN:XXX card. If you haven't already know, you can't do CLI request when you get the card less than 30 days. I learned this the hard way and got FR and security flags. So I did the alternative, I just relocate my credit from my Blue card. The original CL limit is very low for me: only $2000/card. My recommendation is to apply for these cards only for emergency (i.e. you need to BT from card that its promo almost expired).

Wow, very ambitious AOR and well-detailed post. I like it Alot.

My answers to the questions

1. I chose to avoid FR route with my INLA BT and stuck to 49.99% utilization, but given you prepared your financial documents and already have much more substantial credit stats for total util and credit age you could probably afford to try the higher util route.
2. I would keep those small lines unless you think you're going to go over the cards allowed per issuer limit.
3. Freezing Experian would probably be worth it given on average you should expect 18 or so Experian Inquiries if you're doing 56 apps that'll stay for 2 years and could hurt you applying for cards/mortgages in the future. You can read how to freeze experian in this FW Thread and the link to get the information on what information to mail in can be found here. Although I've heard it takes a week for this freeze to go into effect, so you'd have to delay the O-Rama a bit but I bet it'd be worth it in the longer(2 year) run.
4. Yeah people have reported that TU usually bumps after ~40 soft pulls and EQ bumps after ~90 soft pulls, so just keep pulling.
5. I remember reading a limit of 1 in someone's AOR thread(though I now forget who) as another got cancelled when he applied for 2 but I think they were both on the personal side, but I would imagine you could do 1 biz and 1 personal.

Additionally, you might want to look into this Credit Card Issuer FAQ FW Thread as they have important information on the limits certain issuers have on applications. For example, I've read from some AOR-veterans that Citi has a limit of applying for 2 Personal Cards, 1 Professional Card, and 2 Business Cards in a 60 day period (although I'm not sure if cobranded cards like the Associated Bank card count as part of that Personal app limit). Anyways I wish you the best of luck and I'm eager to see the results.

Thanks for all of the detail!

SecondCor521 said:I’ve cracked and danced my AM3X cards a number of times over the past six months. I’ve reallocated via their web page to get a large line with them on my personal account. I also love buttoned my BofA AM3X. While refi’ing my mortgage with PenFed, I took the opportunity to CLI my Visa with them as well. In doing so I discovered that the mortgage credit pull could not be used for the CC CLI (they use different “styles” of FICO scores).We sure do speak a different dialect 'round these parts!