SecondCor521’s Somewhat-Less-Lazy-O-Rama A0R 2.0 – March 4, 2008

win333 said: Library cards, Good one. That's the number I thought I was supposed to put

I can't get over how many UPSTANDING/HONEST citizens we have here, how sweet. Show me the law that says, I must provide my DL to a bank and If the number isn't correct I'll go to jail for fraud. We aren't stealing!

So many people have been brainwashed their entire life, TC says B* is FRAUD. So you better not do that either, I guess doing 30 or 40 apps in an hour isn't fraud either huh? You know what your doing and you still do it.

When people have LIMITED understanding of how the system works, they make STUPID assumptions.

I guess you think **income** is just the number on your pay check right?

I think i'm going to start putting in my lease that *not paying your rent is fraud*, I bet they'll be scared to death and pay early.

Give me 7 hail marries and I might forgive you.

Sorry OP I couldn't resist

When TC tells me I can subscribe to their service and pull my credit as often as once every 24 hours for the fees I pay them, and I do, that is abiding by the terms of our arrangement, not fraud, regardless of what TC might say.

Income is the total amount of household income I can document. That includes W-2 income, business income, interest income, my wife's paychecks, dividends and anything else that brings in money that could theoretically be used to repay the debts in the future. However, I get the sense that some folks on FW are pulling a number out of the air or inflating their HHI arbitrarily to get better terms or a higher CL. That is fraud.

When you knowingly put down any false information in a contract or on a form and then sign it to deceive the other party and benefit financially, that is fraud.

However, when banks offer anyone in the public the chance to apply for a financial product, and you or I elect to take up 40 banks on that offer on the same day, that is playing not only within the law but by the rules. They all have the right to use all the information they can muster to accept or deny my application, to decide whether to do business with us. All just business. Then, after the fact, if they pull our credit and decide we have too much outstanding debt, they can modify the terms, which we agreed to when we signed up with them.

Also, not paying your rent is breach of contract, not fraud.

I don't mean to be preachy, but I think people who use deceptive practices here are the exception and not the rule, and I'd like to see it stay that way. Remember, the way you celebrate says a lot about you and reflects on your school. So take care of yourself and your friends.

A message from VanceWade.

T+00 05:00:00

I adjusted the list a little more before starting. I finished up most of phases 1 through 5 about 2AM EST. I updated the Quick Summary with the results that I thought most people would be interested in, and I'll update the rest as time permits.

Various comments on the results:

1. Getting all this easy money sure is a lot of work!
2. I don't know what to make of the pattern of instant approvals, except to think that there do seem to be separate credit buckets. Various folks recommended the Citi Hilton and AM3X Starwood; I think those cards might represent different credit buckets within the same issuer.
3. Almost all apps were deferred, which I expected.
4. I'm quite pleased that I only got one instant decline. That means I did a good job (with your help, FWF!) of avoiding at least the stupid declines due to issuer policies.
5. Phone apps are a waste of time unless they're a really juicy offer. Although you can pretty easily be applying online for the next card while the phone CSR drones on about the privacy policy or the interest rate disclosures or whatever.
6. Roboform was surprisingly a lot less helpful than I remember it being last time around. I had to correct data in several fields, it didn't fill in fields that I thought it ought to, and it fills in some fields a little too enthusiastically. I still like it, though, at least for not having my address or SSN typo'ed on the application.
7. Lots of issuers want to be able to communicate their credit decision via email.
8. In general, I tried to avoid requesting BT's with apps and did so unless my research indicated that a BT on the app was very likely to generate a large line. I requested four with the apps. I may have messed up on them as a result of trying to strategize after 2 hours of typing late at night:
..... a. I have a potential of $45K going to a Citi card with a $38,500 limit. I'm hoping either (a) this is not a problem with Citi, or (b) I can clear the BT's as they show up.
..... b. I have $30K going to my USAA card. I have read mixed reviews about USAA and credit balances. I had a positive experience with them with a credit balance just a week ago, so I'm hoping for good results. I'll either do a $30K cash advance and eat a few days interest or call USAA and plead stupidity/ignorance/mistake.
..... c. I only requested $15K with Advanta, even though their BT terms go for 15 months and they have a $90 fee. I'll either call them to ask them to increase it, or, more likely get a $2,500 limit like everyone else and cancel the BT altogether.
9. All things considered, it would have been better to do the apps early in the morning. I chose not to because I didn't want to take off any more time from work than I have lately and I wanted to fire things off before my new mortgage showed up on my credit report.
10. Several of the applications, most notably Citi and Hooters, did not work in Firefox but did work in IE.
11. After my original 35 planned applications, I scanned my list of discarded applications and decided to apply for a 36th card - the WA.MU ESPN card - even though others had reported low limits. Instantly approved for $15K. Go figure.

2Cor521

win333 said: Geez, I thought you gave up

77,000 instant, darn good job. I wouldn't worry about the cap1 decline, we know they only except 1 app every 45 days.

I thought hilton, starwood and Delta seem to be different credit buckets.

CITI Associates card, i've been thinking to add that to my AOR but I just noticed my CITI homerebate card shows on my credit report as **Assoc/CITI**. I wonder if thats the same?

The AORs that start like yours, end up kickin a$$. You are already at 40% of your goal of 200,000, good thing there's a credit crunch huh?

win333,

Thanks!

I realized last night that, less than 5 hours into my second A0R, I've already got more in requested BT's ($100K) than I managed to get in total in 0% BT money in A0R 1.0.

You could have told me yesterday only one CapOne offer per 45 days yesterday!

Yeah, I think the "different buckets, same issuer" idea is a very good idea for us A0R folks to take advantage of.

By the way, my goal is actually $200K in new BT money, not just $200K in new credit. But yes, hopefully I am off to a good start...

2Cor521

jackcrawfish said: SecondCor521 said: A0R 2.0 Phase 3: HYSA-style Bank Accounts for BT Stash

B1 - Alliant Credit Union $5 min $100 to earn 4.35% APY
B2 - Shore Bank 4.15% APY
B3 - Vanguard Prime MM Fund VMMXX $3K minimum 3.84% APY

I realize you're quite busy right now but, would you consider CD's for 85% of your new BT cash? Let's assume $200,000 in total new BT $$$. $100,000 is for 6 months and $100,000 is for 12 months. Your strategy might look like this:

Type              $$$$$$$$$
MMA's             $30,000
4-5 month CD's    $90,000
10-11 month CD's  $80,000

Yup, it's on my list after the dust settles to try to optimize the interest earned side of the equation in essentially the manner you describe.

ETA: If I were going to go through this sort of hassle for the extra yield, I'd strongly consider the high-yield checking accounts being bandied about here on FWF. For some people on FWF it might be a better choice. I've already decided against the checking account route as I'm not convinced they'll stay around long enough, and I don't want to hassle with properly timing that many debit card transactions.

2Cor521

win333 said: I looked back, I thought I did mention the cap1 but I guess not. No biggy, they just cancel it from the moment you send it, no INQ like some banks do.

That's good to know. Even if they did pull an INQ, what's the real difference between 42 or 43 inquiries?

2Cor521

SecondCor521 said: win333 said: I looked back, I thought I did mention the cap1 but I guess not. No biggy, they just cancel it from the moment you send it, no INQ like some banks do.

That's good to know. Even if they did pull an INQ, what's the real difference between 42 or 43 inquiries?

2Cor521

1 more experian or 1 less. Thats about it.

2Cor - I leave for travel for a few days and someone pops up with an A0R after my own heart - WTF?? I love your approach. I just summarized my similar A0R - 32 apps.

As to Citi, I wouldn't sweat it. I pushed $110K to my $2K CL Citi card. I had no problems doing BT directly into my checking account. I think I did almost $90K in my first A0R to the same card when it was a higher CL ~$30K. I did all of it online.

We had very similar instant decision numbers. I think your card selection is MUCH better. I did freeze EX and I dispute (current) EQ. I'm ready for another A0R! Might mirror yours (for non duplicative cards) as imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

Good luck!

T+01 04:22:00

I'm going to try to post a daily update. I'll also keep updating the OP and QS as data arrives. References to "b1" and "27" and similar refer to the first bank account and the 27th credit card.

My day job, family, and social life all required attention today, so I didn't have all that much time to spend on my A0R. Fortunately, it was a relatively quiet day overall in A0R-ville.

Phase 1:

I actually ended up starting to apply for the HELOC from DCU and got cut off at 7:28 p.m. By the time I called back, they were closed. So I skipped it. Later, when opening the b1 Alliant CU account they said I also qualified for a no-fee HELOC as well as a Visa card with a $7,500 limit and no fees. I accepted both.

Phase 2:

2 - Received email from USBank saying I was declined. I found this somewhat surprising at first, but I think maybe USBank might be a 1-app-at-a-time-thank-you-very-much issuer. In retrospect I should have switched the order on the USBank cards and done the Baylor application first. Maybe I'll call and ask them to reconsider.

32 - Received email saying I was approved, and the limit would come with the card. I called Advanta and asked if they could tell me the limit, and they said their systems don't get new cards that fast. I could call back in a couple of days if I wanted.

No definitive word on any of the other deferrals.

I pulled my credit report via 24protectplus.com and myprivacymatters.com. I was somewhat surprised that there were only 12 new inquiries after 36 applications, 5 new bank accounts, and 7 hard pull credit limit increases yesterday. There were 2 TU, 9 EX, and 1 EQ. I don't get the individual inquiries via my credit pulling services, so I can't tell you which cards pulled which.

Phase 2A:

32 - In the same call inquiring about my limit, I asked Advanta about my BT and was informed that if BT < CL, BT would be processed; if BT > CL, BT would be canceled completely.

Phase 3:

I funded all of my accounts in Phase 3 and 4 with my PenFed Visa. I called PenFed today and discovered that they would treat these transactions as cash advances, but I would not incur any interest as long as I paid in full by my due date, which I normally do since this card is my daily spender.

Phase 4:

k1b - Will call to try to add fathickory $25 bonus referral code to this account. Sent secure message to cancel check order. Also called them to cancel check order and apply for k3.

k3 - Was informed by Chase that they do not offer business checking accounts in my area. Rats. I thought that perhaps my business could open an East Coast branch, but I don't know if they would allow it since I have no East Coast address on my credit report. Any other ideas?

Phase 5:

No news.

2Cor521

SecondCor521 said: In retrospect I should have switched the order on the USBank cards and done the Baylor application first.
The "deal" is equally good with the other US Bank card, right?

This does, however reinforce the general importance of sorting your cards by desireability.

Glitch99 said: SecondCor521 said: Phase 2A:

32 - In the same call inquiring about my limit, I asked Advanta about my BT and was informed that if BT < CL, BT would be processed; if BT > CL, BT would be canceled completely.I can confirm this is what happens with Advanta. However, I was also told this about the Nat City Lifespring Acct, but my BT request was automatically reduced to 100% of the approved credit line.

Glitch,

Good to know.

I think the only way to manage it is to keep track of what BT requests one has made and monitor them closely. If what you say happens to me, I will either ask for a CLI ("I've heard 100% utilization is bad for my credit score.") or pay down the balance to 89.99% ASAP.

2Cor521

Venturion said: 2Cor, are you referring to Advanta still? First, I was in the situation in cancelling a $12.5K Advanta card and reapplying. Second, I did request a $25K BT but only got a $2.5K CL. So I don't think the card is cancelled if BT > CL. Third, its a biz card so I don't believe the utilization matters in the case of Advanta...

Yes, I was talking about Advanta in my previous post.

But I didn't say the card would be canceled, I said the BT would be canceled. At least that's what the CSR told me; I personally will monitor it all closely to see what does in fact happen. As you well know, CSR's aren't always accurate in what they say.

Thanks for the reminder on utilization on business cards. I'd pay it down to 94.99% in that case, since that is my provisional rule for business utilization.

2Cor521

Venturion said: 2Cor - I leave for travel for a few days and someone pops up with an A0R after my own heart - WTF?? I love your approach. I just summarized my similar A0R - 32 apps.

As to Citi, I wouldn't sweat it. I pushed $110K to my $2K CL Citi card. I had no problems doing BT directly into my checking account. I think I did almost $90K in my first A0R to the same card when it was a higher CL ~$30K. I did all of it online.

We had very similar instant decision numbers. I think your card selection is MUCH better. I did freeze EX and I dispute (current) EQ. I'm ready for another A0R! Might mirror yours (for non duplicative cards) as imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

Good luck!

Venturion,

Thanks for the kind words.

Yes, your recent A0R was one I reviewed for cards, which is why you're in my list of thank-you's in my original post.

Good to know on Citi; I haven't done the Citi BT laundering process before, so it's new to me.

I am strongly considering freezing EX on A0R 3.0 since I am now at 17 inquiries there.

2Cor521

jackcrawfish said: SecondCor521 said: ....References to "b1" and "27" and similar refer to the first bank account and the 27th credit card......A0R-ville.....ATTENTION: All guests of the A0R-ville pig roast party -

Make certain to keep your scorecards handy (use pencil as there may be several corrections). It appears the home team cracked a couple of homers with "15" and "16".... Maybe realloc from Diamond Preferred Rewards MC to "15" will net a few bonus RBI's...

Ahhhh the beer tastes great and is less filling too....

Let us hope mighty Casey doesn't strike out

Oh, and I can't change the numbers now...that would mess up me keeping track of all this somewhat carefully controlled chaos

2Cor521

T+02 01:06:00

Again, a quiet day on the A0R-front. I expect it to get busier in the next few days as the deferred decisions start happening, and BTs start happening, automatic payments need to get set up, etc.

Phase 2:

1, 2 - I called USBank to talk to them about the situation. Unfortunately, I called 1-800-285-8585, which is the "you already have an account and want help" folks. I needed to call 1-800-947-1444, which is the "you want a USBank credit card but all you have right now is an application" folks. And they were closed by the time I found this out.

10, 11 - I received two emails saying that I had been approved for Citi Business Cards. I think it's these two but I'm not sure.

24 - Received an email indicating that I was approved for the Discover Open Road card, no mention of a CL. Called 800-DIS-COVER to find out that they approved me for $10K. I also noted that my existing Discover card was clipped by $5K.

25 - After talking with them about #24, Discover transferred me to a business credit ninja. After some basic credit verification type questions, she could approve the Discover business card for $7,000. She also said I had 60 days to decide if I wanted to move any credit from my personal lines to my business line, but that if I moved credit that direction that it was not possible to move it back. She also said she had no discretion to give me any higher limit.

No definitive word on any of the other deferrals. I did try calling some of the status lines and checked around online, but didn't see any new accounts popping up anywhere.

I did figure out my mystery from yesterday regarding my inquiries. About a week and a half ago, I disputed a lot of EQ inquiries. 12 of them were removed the day after my A0R. So they were still there for anyone who did an instant pull, but they're gone now. So of the 16 EQ's, 3 are older and 13 are two days old. I believe that makes a total of 27 hard inquiries across the three bureaus, which I think is really good considering I'm working on 37 credit cards, 8 new bank accounts, and 7 CLI requests.

I noticed a soft pull on EQ from "ANDERA" -- didn't know who they were, but it seems they are some sort of account opening service, presumably for one of the bank accounts.

Phase 4:

I actually added a latecomer account -- to be designated k9 -- after seeing a thread here on FWF about it. It's a $100 bonus for a BofA business checking account. I opened it with $101 from my PenFed Visa. I'll add a link to the OP soon.

I did see a couple of trial deposits today but have to dig out the paperwork to figure out which accounts they might have come from . One of them seemed to be from OptionsXPress, which seems to really be on the ball with everything.

2Cor521

VanceWade said: win333 said: Library cards, Good one. I can't get over how many UPSTANDING/HONEST citizens we have here, how sweet. When you knowingly put down any false information in a contract or on a form and then sign it to deceive the other party and benefit financially, that is fraud.

I think people who use deceptive practices here are the exception and not the ruleMe too. But if you look at a large enough group of people, you'll always be able to find a few bad eggs.

SecondCor521 said:
...
Phase 2:

1, 2 - I called USBank ...

2Cor521

Now that this thread has stretched onto two pages and will be reaching three before too long I'm sure, would you mind naming the cards next to the numbers? While you probably have a cheat sheet (or have them memorized by now), we'll have to reference the QS each time you mention an update. Just a suggestion.

ahself said:
Now that this thread has stretched onto two pages ...

Keep in mind that page length (messages/page) is a user preference. I've been beyond two pages for some time.

Still a good suggestion

In my spreadsheet I have a column for due date and 1 for statement date. Thats a priceless thing for me, spreadsheets are great!

bogalusa said: SecondCor521 said: T+02 01:06:00
...
I noticed a soft pull on EQ from "ANDERA" -- didn't know who they were, but it seems they are some sort of account opening service, presumably for one of the bank accounts...

You got it. I recall seeing <<andera.com>> in the IE address bar when opening a bank account 3 months ago...

andera.com is the website it goes to while opening an account with Metropolitan National Bank

T+04 23:45:00 (Ignoring the effect of DST)

A quiet few days have passed since my last update. My credit score continues to drop gradually as I expected it to; the history can be found in the QS. I have noticed a pattern where most of the credit pulls were done on the first day, but there were still a handful the second day and even one or two the day after that. These pulls were not done in the order of application; it just seems that some CC issuers or cards don't pull right away. Again, starting an A0R at night probably makes this pattern more likely.

Phase 2:

Seven new credit card accounts have shown up on my Equ!fax credit report already, but there is no solid evidence of any new cards or any knew known limits.

Phase 3:

b1 - Alliant Credit Union -- I filled out the signature card and have it addressed; just need to drop it in the mail.

b2 - Shore Bank Savings -- I verified my trial deposits on this account today. They immediately funded my account, but I can't log in until I set up an online account and wait a day. Not ideal, but I can live with it.

Phase 4:

k1b - Chase personal checking -- I faxed in the signature card on this account today.

k5 - OptionsXPress -- I verified my trial deposits on this account today. Interestingly enough, they actually do a small deposit and then a small withdrawal. This raises them in my esteem, because they at least figured out that they can accomplish the same thing (ACH account verification) in a similar way but not spend so much money. Also, the two amounts were less than 10 cents each. Someone in the account verification department is really watching their pennies. Maybe that's how they can afford to give out juicy $100 new account bonuses ;-P

2Cor521