Thanks for the info 2Cor. I didn't know about USAA and the debit BT function. Are there any other banks or debit cards that can do the same thing?

narbi said:Thanks for the info 2Cor. I didn't know about USAA and the debit BT function. Are there any other banks or debit cards that can do the same thing?

narbi,

I don't know about any other bank for sure; I haven't tried since I know USAA works for me. One thing you could do is call the issuer of your debit card and ask them what would happen if a third party sent a large check to them with your name and account number on it. I would guess that most banks would deposit the check into your account, but be prepared for confused CSR's when you ask the question.

2Cor521

T+27 04:56:00

My credit score appears to be dropping somewhat. TU bumpage has started again, which is nice. I'm pulling basically daily when I remember to. My Wells Fargo BT balance is now showing up. Again, PenFed still hasn't reported my new mortgage to the credit bureaus.

Phase 2 Interesting News

2 - USBank Baylor Card -- I called in today to talk to the verification department, but the CSR pulled up my account and said everything had already been verified and that my card was on its way. The new account shows up in my USBank online banking already.

3 - AM3X IN:NYC -- They still haven't taken away my extra credit that I received during my reallocation. The balance transfer has been processed completely and I have not been FR'ed yet. (As a reminder, I did a 49.99% BT on this card. The amount represents less than 25% of my aggregate AM3X credit lines, and represents about 6% of my aggregate credit lines.)

4-9 - Chase cards -- I spoke with a CSR at the number listed on the letter and he was able to move things along without me faxing in my Social Security card and copies of utility bills. I think it helped that I already have perhaps half a dozen active Chase accounts. I called the status line today but no news there.

13, 14 - Citi professional cards -- I actually went out and consolidated two of my existing Citi cards out of existence in order to get these applications reconsidered. After several (6 or 7) phone calls back and forth between the application department and the customer service department, finally someone said they couldn't reconsider the applications without resubmitting new ones and pulling my credit again (even though the letter implied that they could). I said forget it.

21 - BofA business card -- I was approved for this card.

22, 23 - National City cards -- I called and spoke with a CSR on these two cards to try to get a CLI on the first one before making a BT, and to find out the status of the second one. The CSR said that there was no record of the second one and that the system would have rejected the second application since it was made the same day as the first one. She also said I couldn't get a CLI on the first one because I was already automatically approved for the maximum CL I could get.

32 - Advanta business card -- I requested a CLI which was declined due to insufficient history on the account. Never mind that I had an Advanta card for a year before that with a CL of $5K. Since the $2,500 CL on this card falls below my nuisance threshold for doing BT's I will be effectively sock-drawering this card for now.

Total cards is now at 46 and total credit is now at $829,800.

Phase 2A BT Interesting News

BT's continue in earnest. I have received BT checks for a number of different cards over the last week or so. That means that as I go forward I will probably check to see if the card has already sent me a BT check before I do the BT.

BT25.1, BT31.1 - Discover and M&T Bank -- The BT money from these two requests showed up at Citi a day apart. I made two credit balance refund requests online a day apart and received two emails from Citi. Both read as follows:

"We are currently conducting a review of your account and will contact you with the results of our investigation as soon as it is completed. We appreciate your patience while we work to resolve this matter for you. NOTE: This email is generated automatically, and replies sent to this address will not be answered. To send us a secure message about your account, please use the Write to Customer Care feature located under Contact Us in Account Online."

Any comments on this email? I'm tempted to send an online message asking them when the money will be refunded to me.

I have $115,218 in successfully completed BT's, another $54,263 that is currently a credit balance at Citi, and a grand total of $262,604 in BT's in progress (this latter number includes the first two).

I still have plans for additional BTs as cards roll in, CLI requests are made, and CLRs are done. I also need to start watching for payments that need to be made.

Phase 2B CC 1P/Bonuses Interesting News

4 - Citi AMA Visa -- Made and paid off my first purchase here. Bought my kids lunch at Carl's Jr. This should result in a $50 statement credit.

Phase 3 HYSA Stash Interesting News

TDA - I didn't do the TDA thing because I ran out of time -- I had family in town last week for spring break -- and lacked confidence that I'd get the bonus. Probably not a good decision in retrospect.

b0 - Provident Direct -- I did receive my ChexSystems report. It looks vaguely like a credit report, and all mine had on it were a bunch of inquiries from banks I had opened accounts with. I think there were a total of 9 or 10 inquiries. I was going to call them back and ask for reconsideration but then I noticed they had dropped rates so I added b4 instead.

b1 - Alliant CU -- This account is now stuffed to the gills with A0R BT $$$. I will have to scrape off the interest (about $359 per month it looks like) to stay under FDIC limits.

b4 - IndyMac Bank -- Applied for a new Bank e-Money Market account today. Funded with an initial $5K on my PenFed Visa card. Hopefully this will go through quickly as I am a previous customer of theirs. Also, I have some BT $$$ which will probably be coming soon so I will need to deploy.

Phase 4 Bank Bonuses Interesting News

k1b - Chase personal -- Chase credited the $3 fee as a customer courtesy as I hoped they would do.

One of my goals is to become what I consider "interest neutral" where my after tax interest income from my savings accounts exceeds my after tax interest expenses (basically my mortgage and student loan). So I track a metric which is basically (annual interest income - annual interest expense) / total debt. Right now that number stands at 0.856%, which means that I am effectively paying a weighted after tax interest rate of 0.856% on my debt. I hope to see this number go negative, which would mean I am effectively paying no interest. This number is in the Stats section at the end of the QS.

Also, I will continue to update the QS periodically between formal updates.

2Cor521

"4. Be more suave and sophisticated about the whole thing."

I like that! btw, you've done your homework and then some. i thought i was pretty nifty with my AOR's. you've taken it to a whole another dimension. thanks for the post.

Wow! Thanks for a very un-lazy job of research & documentation!

I'm back doing research for my next AOR. I haven't had a chance to hang out here in the meantime, so there are a bunch of threads that I've missed. It appears that 26 approvals is darn close to the maximum, no matter how many apps. (One exception: Dbalkunjr listed 29 on the AOR stats thread.)

Here's how I sliced your list:

1 - USBank Select Reward Visa (phone app) (original offer expired) (12/uncapped) -> Deferred -> Approved $15,000 -> CLR $0
3 - AM3X IN:NYC (6/$0) -> Approved $3,000 -> CLR $99,900
4 - Chase AMA Platinum Visa Business Card (1P -> $50, 12/$75) -> Deferred -> Approved $10,000 -> CLR $62,600
5 - Chase Platinum Mastercard (CS $25, 12/$75) -> Deferred -> Approved $15,000
8 - Chase::UPS Capital Visa Business Rewards Card (12/$75) -> Deferred -> Approved $10,000 -> CLR $0
10 - CitiBusiness MasterCard (1P -> 15K TYP, 12/$0) -> Deferred -> Approved $10,000 -> CLR $47,500
11 - CitiBusiness PremierPass Card (1P -> 15K TYP, 12/$0) -> Deferred -> Approved $10,000
15 - Citi::Associated Bank Visa Platinum (12/$0) -> Approved $20,000
16 - Juniper Bank Atlantic Rewards Business Card (15/$75) -> Approved $20,000
17 - Juniper National Park Foundation Platinum Visa (12/$50) -> Approved $15,000
18 - BofA NEA WorldPoints Platinum Plus Visa (12/$30) -> Approved $7,000 -> CLR $44,500
19 - BofA NEA Rewards AM3X (12/$30) -> Deferred -> Approved shiftage $10,000 -> CLR $100
20 - BofA Rewards AM3X Card ($25 1P -> $100) -> Deferred -> Approved shiftage $5,000 -> CLR $100
21 - BofA Power Rewards Platinum Visa Business Credit Card (consolidation) -> Deferred -> Approved $10,000
22 - National City Lifespring Health Everyday Rewards Visa Platinum (12/$0) -> Deferred -> Approved $12,500
24 - Discover Open Road Card (CS $40, 13/$75) -> Deferred -> Approved $5,000 -> CLR $0
25 - Discover Business Card (CS $40) -> Deferred -> Approved $7,000 -> CLR $22,000
27 - Compass Bank Visa Platinum (12/$75) -> Skipped, not open -> Applied 3/17 via phone -> Reapplied 3/31 via phone -> Approved $7,000
28 - Wells Fargo Credit Card (log in to checking account) (9/$0) -> Deferred -> Approved $12,000
30 - IberiaBank Visa Platinum Rewards Card ( 6/$0) -> Deferred -> Approved $13,000
31 - M&T Bank Visa Business Platinum Rewards Card (6/$0) -> Deferred -> Approved $35,200
32 - Advanta Platinum BusinessCard with Rewards (CS $30) -> Deferred -> Approved $2,500
33 - CapitalOne Visa Business Platinum with No Hassle Cash (CS $60) -> Approved $20,000
35 - Hooters MasterCard (style points) -> Deferred -> Approved $15,000
36 - WAMU ESPN Total Access Visa Card (6/$0) -> Approved $15,000
37 - Alliant CU Visa card -> Approved $7,500 (I didn't specifically apply for this card; I received this pre-approved offer from Alliant while opening a HYSA with them -- see b1 below.)

That's 26 approvals, though Advanta is useless (alas), and Alliant was probably automatic.

It's possible some of these will be approved (though I'm skeptical, especially of NatCity):

? 6 - Chase Platinum Visa® Business Card (CS $35, 12/$99) -> Deferred
? 9 - Chase::LaSalle Bank Platinum MasterCard (12/$75) -> Deferred
? 12 - CitiBusiness Card with ThankYou Network (1P -> 15K TYP, 12/$0) -> Deferred
? 23 - National City Quilter's Reward Visa (12/$0) -> Deferred

I didn't count this one, i.e. it looks like you only received one US Bank (Elan) approval:
2 - USBank Baylor Alumni Association Visa Platinum Card (12/$0) -> Deferred -> Declined "maximum amount of unsecured credit already available" -> Approved shiftage -> $10,000 -> CLR $25,000

In any case, congrats on a great AOR, and thanks for being a guinea pig on total # of apps. I'm going to try to beat total approvals via more diversity ... though I'm not convinced I can do better than last time.

SecondCor521 said:2. PenFed treats bank opening deposits using their credit card as cash advances, but as long as you PIF each month you won't incur finance charges.

Thanks for this. I was waiting on my new PFCU card to open my Chase Checking account. Looks like I will try a different card instead.

T+32 00:46:00

It has been a month and one day since the start of this A0R.

My (TU FAKO) credit score continues to drop slightly. I still have only the one Wells Fargo BT showing up now. New accounts continue to report at the rate of about one per day. My mortgage is now reporting to EX and EQ, and will of course be reporting on TU soon. The real damage has not yet begun.

Emotionally I'm actually pretty drained from this A0R already. For me there is actually a greater-than-linear increase in the effort this one is requiring over my A0R 1.0 primarily because I feel the need to doublecheck and triplecheck everything as my capacity to remain organized becomes strained. I like to strive for perfection not only because one small mistake can be financially costly, but also just because that's the way I roll. I'm hoping that things will subside soon like they did for my last round.

Phase 2 Interesting News

I think I'm pretty much done with receiving and activating my cards. I'm also nearly done with my CLI and CLR activity; the results are documented in the QS. I have decided to diverge from the FWF conventional wisdom of never closing a card and have chosen to consolidate cards and CL's into my newer cards. On the plus side, this reduces the number of cards I have to manage (I was up to 48 open and active credit cards when I made this decision) and it allows for moving the entire credit line over. On the downside, there is a potential negative effect on my credit score in a number of years when those accounts drop off, and possibly missing out on CC offers on those lines. I consider these drawbacks to be far outweighed by the benefits in my case.

I've also pretty much given up hope of receiving any additional cards for the applications that are still pending. My mailman may surprise me though.

3 - AM3X IN:NYC -- I still have the "extra" credit; they still haven't initiated an FR.

4 - Chase AMA card -- When I called in to CLR, the CSR transferred me to lending operations because of the "large limits" I was working with. The lending operations CSR then was going to have to go even to the next level if I wanted to go past $75K. To avoid that hassle, I just reallocated to $75K.

5 - Chase Platinum -- I'll CLR the rest of my Chase lines to this card and do a BT soon.

Phase 2A BT Interesting News

This has been the majority of my focus over the last few weeks. Initially I began by calling in BT's and requesting them to my Citi card or my USAA checking account -- preferably via my checking account number but via my debit card number where necessary. After firing off a number of such BT requests, I did receive BT checks for 5 or 6 of the cards; I have switched to using these where they are available because they are faster and easier to do.

I may run into a problem because I am looking at harvesting a total of about $375K in BT money right now. I am adding POD beneficiaries to my Alliant CU account, but until that happens I have a limit of $300K of HYSA capacity ($100K each at Alliant, ShoreBank, and Amtrust Direct).

I am now receiving bills for my various BT's and am setting things up for online payments and automatic payments where possible. I have mixed feelings about automatic payments -- they are nice when they work, but I don't like the nervous feeling of waiting for the first automatic payment to be made and not being sure if it will be made or not. With 14 balance transfers in progress, that's a lot of monthly bills to keep track of.

BT16.1/BT16.2 - Barclays BankAtlantic -- These folks had a tough time processing my BT request over the phone. First, the CSR's computer decided to go into update mode in the middle of my BT offer. Second, she got the BT amount wrong. Third, it turns out this bank has a policy of limiting BT requests to $20K at a time. But apparently it all worked out in the end.

BT25.1/BT31.1 - Citi credit balance -- No refund check yet; presumably still in process.

Phase 2B CC 1P/Bonuses Interesting News

I logged into Card Selection tonight and they have all four of my bonuses (cards 5, 25, 32, and 33) marked as Confirmed. That's $155 in bonuses from them.

20 - BofA Rewards AM3X -- Made my first $25 purchase by filling up my car with gas. I felt a twinge of guilt not using my trusty PenFed Visa to get my 5% CB on gas, but in this case it was worth it. This should result in a $100 statement credit.

Phase 3 HYSA Stash Interesting News

As noted above if my BT funds arrive too soon, I may not have a place to put them. A good problem to have. I am hoping that my Alliant CU form will arrive and be processed in time to increase my carrying capacity to $500K.

B1 - Alliant CU -- As suggested by r0man above, I have sent off a form adding my three kids as POD beneficiaries on my account in an effort to increase my NCUA/NCUSIF coverage to $300K. This should be effective as soon as Monday or Tuesday.

B4 - IndyMac Bank -- I used to have an account with these folks, and they're making it more difficult than seems necessary to open an eMoneyMarket account. I first tried logging into my old account and opening an account through the link they suggest, and on the application I choose to fund via credit card. The next day I get an email saying they're so sorry, but I can't fund a new account with a credit card ("Then why do you mentally deficient mongooses allow it on your application?" I wanted to ask). I then call and ask the CSR if I can do an ACH transfer; she says I can indeed, just by applying from the home page instead of from within my previously existing online account. So I try that option, but that isn't true either. It appears the only way to fund it initially is by paper check. Sigh. I may do that just to hedge against Alliant dropping their rates.

Phase 4 Bank Bonuses Interesting News

TDA - TDAmeritrade deal - Still on the fence about trying for this bonus.

k81 - LaSalle Bank Checking - I ACH pushed $4 from my USAA checking account to here, then used my debit card to buy a tall decaf extra hot mocha at Starbucks for $3.60. This should earn me a $100 bonus.

In Other News

Someone asked me via a PM if I'd share my Excel spreadsheet. Since I keep almost all of my personal financial data in this Excel spreadsheet I would be concerned that I would inadvertently include that data. Even if I delete the tabs, I can see Excel still keeping a copy of the data in the file somehow. To achieve the same end, though, I have uploaded a screen shot of what my spreadsheet looked like as of earlier this evening. It's a little fuzzy because Ph0tobucket downscaled the image, but you still should be able to get the gist of it.

Each row of the spreadsheet is dedicated to an account -- either a credit card account, bank account, or HELOC, as the case may be. Each column in the spreadsheet is typically dedicated to a particular data element or action I need to take. Generally speaking, my approach is to work on filling in the cells from top to bottom and left to right.

Data that is colored red is provisional data that needs to be followed up on -- a CLR that has been requested but hasn't shown up online yet, a monthly payment due date that I have found online but has not been entered into Qu!cken as a scheduled transaction, and the like.

Some rows are hidden. Those are accounts which I have effectively put in the sock drawer.

In conjunction with the spreadsheet, I have a regular manila folder that I keep all of the cards, mailers, letters, and so forth from the various credit card issuers and banks. These papers are marked in the upper right corner with the identifying number in my Excel spreadsheet and my posts here (#4 for my fourth CC, etc.).

I also keep a current list of all of my cards in the same Excel spreadsheet (on the Balance Sheet tab) -- this is where I put the card number, the CVV code, the customer service phone number, the website URL, the credit limit, etc. for each card.

Finally, I also keep track of nearly all of the accounts in Qu!cken as well. (I don't include cards that are sock drawered.)

2Cor521

re: payments:

I rely pretty intensively on ex-MBNA billpay. So, when I get a new card, after activating and all that, one of the first things I'll do is test payments (like $5).

1) If this is a new bank for me, I'll make a small payment using their payment processing system from my desired brokerage account. If it's a bank where multiple cards share one checking account for payments, the no worries.

2) I'll also hook the card up in ex-MBNA billpay, and initiate a small test payment as soon as possible.

I'd say over two AORs, I've had two instances where doing these test payments has caught a problem (wrong account number, etc). In one case, with RBS, they charged me a returned payment fee, which I was able to talk them out of. But I was glad I made the mistake early in the payment cycle.

CYBER you bring up a good point.

I think the best way to avoid headaches is to make a payment right after the statement prints. Then there is no chance in hell of being late. Your next payment won't actually be due for almost 60 days. You lose a TINY TINY bit of interest but that can be made up.

I take my cards to 99%, then I make a payment right away to bring the 99% down. This really works GREAT on biz cards.

On other accounts with 0 BT fees, there is no reason to not take the money back after making payments (at 0% of course).

Some of my accounts are due on the 15th this month but are due on the 17th next month, then the 14th on the next month. Making a payment right after the statement doesn't cost much (20 accounts*500=10,000*4%= 400 less earnings) thats the worste case senario. Thats about 20 per week less earnings, with no more headaches or worrying about missing a payment.

I can't do this all the time but I do it as often as possible (I have 200,000 in debt and no cash).

Just thinking out loud.

I also use Excel, but have a few different sheets in the workbook for the applications, BTs, payments, etc.

For paper organization, I use an accordian/expandable folder and label each tab to a corresponding card. 2Cor and others might need more than one due to all of the accounts they're managing, but it works much better than putting all of the papers into a single folder.

Like cyberkost, I rely on Yodlee's alerts. However, I use the "new bill" alert as a trigger to input the payment due info. into the spreadsheet and I use the "bill reminder" alert as a trigger to actually pay the bill. The bill reminder can be set any number of days prior to the bill due date. In addition, virtually all issuers allow you to post your payment on the due date on their web site, as long as it's on a business day.

I've only been bit by this once. I forgot to pay my Citi Professional card ahead of time and it's due date was on a Sat. I got busy on Friday and ended up paying on Sat. but it didn't post until Monday. Fortunately, since the payment posted before the next statement was cut, I didn't lose the 0% terms. However, I had to plead my case and my good payment history to get the $39 late payment fee waive.