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Fiance-Rama and App-o-Rama: Applications Submitted!

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My fiance and I both plan to do an App-O-Rama within in the next several days. Here are the details:
** See the Quick Summary for latest Application plan, running list of Q&A, and a collection of wisdom from other FWF members**

Goals
1 - Signup Bonuses (ie. ThankYou points, Cash, Miles, etc.)
2 - 0% Cash
3 - Improved & consolidated credit lines
4 - More daily use oriented rewards cards

Current Financial Situation
1 - Roughly $210k HHI total, both aged 31
2 - Revolving balances - usually PIF (generally run a few $K per month)
3 - 2 small auto loans, one on my report, one on hers - total outstanding balance of around 7k combined
4 - 1 personal loan on the Fiance's report for about $3k
5 - Small amount of consulting income that can be reported as business income (20k for me, 10k for her)

Credit Scores/Inquiries
1 - Mine (according to WAMU/TransUnion) - 788 FICO - 4 inquiries (presumably on TU)
2 - Mine (according to MyPrivacyMatters) - 769 FICO - 4 TU, 7 EXP, 5 EQ inquiries
3 - Fiance (according to MyPrivacyMatters) - 755 FICO - 3 TU, 5 EXP, 4 EQ inquiries

Current Accounts Under My Name - $104.6k total lines ex. store cards
1 - AMEX Blue - Limit 24k
2 - Chase Cash Plus Rewards - Limit 18.5k
3 - Citi Professional Cash - Limit 20k
4 - Citi Cash Returns - Limit 20k
5 - Fidelity FIA - Limit 15.1k
6 - WAMU/Providian - Limit 4.5k
7 - HSBC GM Card - Limit 2.5k
7 - Store Cards - 3 store cards - not sure about the limits - all zero balances and never used
8 - There is also another Chase account which is showing up on my report as a CC, but I think it may be an overdraft line on my checking account.

Current Accounts Under Fiance's Name (will look up the limits, mostly low, ie. 5k or less)
1 - Discover
2 - Chase Cash Plus Rewards
3 - Citi Drivers Edge
4 - Wells Fargo
5 - Store Cards - 10 store cards - told her no more unless they are REALLY compelling - lol

Message edited by: stook2001 on 2008-04-12 18:43:00 CDT

UPDATE 4/2: FINISHED ALL THE APPS - $67,000 IN NEW CREDIT
UPDATE 4/3: GOT APPROVALS FOR 4 OF 6 CHASE APPS ADDING 50,000 IN NEW CREDIT, WAITING FOR THE LINE ON THE 2 APPROVED AMEX STARWOOD CARDS.
UPDATE 4/4: 2 MORE INQUIRIES HIT, NEW ACCOUNT SHOWING ON MY REPORT FOR CITI (NO CREDIT LINE SHOWING YET), ALSO RECEIVED A REJECTION FOR ONE OF THE CITI BUSINESS APPS.
UPDATE 4/5: 2 CITI BUSINESS CARDS APPROVED VIA EMAIL. ONE OF THEM IS THE BIZ PREMIER PASS CARD. NOT CERTAIN ABOUT THE 2ND ONE BUT I ASSUME IT IS THE BUSINESS THANKYOU CARD (CAME THROUGH AS GENERIC CITI BUSINESS ON THE EMAIL, ASSUMING THE AA CARD WOULD INDICATE THE COBRANDING - I WILL BOLD IT WHEN I HAVE CONFIRMATION). NOT SURE ABOUT CREDIT LINES.
UPDATE 4/7: TWO NEW CITI APPROVALS CAME IN FOR 21K IN NEW CREDIT, BOTH BOFA APPS WERE APPROVED. INITIALLY GOT 5500 BUT SPOKE WITH CREDIT ANALYST AND PERSUADED HIM TO BUMP THEM BOTH TO 20,000.

Inquiries Update:
Showing a LOT of experian inquiries, unfortunately. Bummer.

4/4 TRANSUNION: NCBK-NCCS & DISCOVER
4/3 EQUIFAX: FIA CSNA
4/3 EXPERIAN: CITI, CHASE BANK USA NA, BANK OF AMERICA, AMEX, CHASE BANK USA NA, ELAN FINANCIAL SERVICES
4/2 EXPERIAN: AMEX, CITI, CBSD/UFC, CHASE BANK USA NA, CITI, CITI,
4/2 TRANSUNION: BRCLYBANKDE

Here are the details on the card application status:
1. CITI Biz - Business ThankYou (Deferred/Approved - 8,000) ** closed citi A/A
2. CITI Biz - PremierPass (Deferred/Approved - 8,000) ** closed citi A/A
3. CITI Pers - PremierPass Elite (Deferred/Approved - 11,000) ** closed citi A/A
4. CITI Pers - Associated Bank Visa Platinum (Approved - 25,000) ** closed citi A/A
5. CITI Pers - Platinum AMEX (Deferred/Approved - 10,000) ** closed citi A/A
6. CITI Pers - Honors Hhilton (Approved - 15,000) ** closed citi A/A
7. CITI Biz - Aadvantage (Deferred) ** closed citi A/A
8. Chase Biz - UPS (Deferred/Rejected)
9. Chase Biz - Amazon.com (Approved - 15,000) - moved line - 500
10. Chase Biz - Priority Club (Deferred/Approved - 15,000) - moved line - 29,500
11. Chase Pers - Chevy Chase Bank Flexible Platinum (Deferred/Approved - 19,000)
12. Chase Biz - Chase Business Visa (Deferred/Rejected)
13. Chase Pers - Sony Card (Deferred/Approved - 1,000)
14. Juniper Biz - Bank Atlantic Rewards Business (Approved - 25,000)
15. National City - National City Lifespring Health (Deferred/Requires Proof of Identity)
16. US Bank Biz - M&T (Deferred)
17. US Bank Pers - Baylor (Deferred/Approved - 12,000)
18. AMEX Biz - Starwood Preferred (Deferred/Approved - 26,500)
19. AMEX Pers - Starwood Preferred (Deferred/Approved - 1,000)
20. Bofa Biz - BofA Power Rewards Platinum (Deferred/Approved - 15,000)
21. Bofa Pers - Nea Worldpoints (Deferred/Approved - 20,000)
22. BofA Pers - NEA AMEX (Deferred/Approved - 20,000)
23. Discover Biz - Discover Business Card (Deferred)
24. Discover Pers - More (Deferred)
25. CITI Pers - Professional ThankYou (Deferred/Rejected)** closed citi A/A


CURRENT LIST OF OPEN QUESTIONS (will update the quick summary with answers as they come in):

1) A few of my planned applications require up front BT requests to take advantage of the BT offer. I don't maintain huge balances on existing cards and I don't have a line of credit I can send payment to. As best I've read, that leaves me with 4 options.

- Send the BT to my existing Citibank CC accounts, generate a credit balance, and either request a refund or balance transfer the cash from CITI to a bank account. Not sure which of the two is favored. Seems like the CITI credit refund may be somewhat more likely to raise red flags. This seems like the easiest option but I admit to being fearful of A/A as a result of the Citi churn. Clearly, Citi does not intend for us to be sending 50-100k etc. through our credit cards to generate credit refunds.

- Another option is to fund my 40k ThankYou point Citibank offer, which requires a 26k deposit, using either my Fidelity, AMEX or Chase cards (actually a combination of 2 cards would be needed), then pay off the balance with the new application balance transfer.

- Send the BT money to a debit card. This seems to be not advised and more trouble than its worth. My options include Citi, BofA Premier, Century Bank and Fidelity. Not planning on going this route.

- Do a small second phase AOR only for those cards that require the BT request up front. By that time, I should have a bunch of debt racked up on new credit cards. Use the 2nd round of AOR cards to pay the balances on the original round of cards. Obviously, the liklihood of approval drops significantly at this point due to credit scores, inquiries and new balanaces from the 1st AOR (unless I do this when there are only business balances, in which case the impact may be less significant).

2COR Recommends: Most BT requests can be done after the app is submitted. Only reason to request the BT at the time of the App is to get bigger credit line (seems to by very YMMV). Has a credit balance with Citi of 54k on a 5k limit card. No issues with this approach thus far. Does not recommend splitting up the AOR into 2 parts - business & personal.

2) New Citi applications - I am having a difficult time prioritizing the citi applications. I am probably going to do 2-3 business, 1 professional, and 2 personal. That is more or less the rule of thumb, as I understand it. That said, 2 details have thrown me a bit. I originally wanted the Hilton card but scratched it in favor of some of the others shown currently in the quick summary. In doing further research, it seems the Hilton card is a distinct credit bucket. Should I add it? Am I asking to get rejected on some of the core apps? Maybe apply for it at the end? Also, I saw a note on the forums about the Citi Diamond AMEX card that is good for reallocating personal credit to business lines. This seems like a very worthwhile card to have if many of the personal cards can't be directly reallocated to business. Just need some insights on what to go for. I'd like to max out rewards but don't want to waste inquiries needlessly.

2COR Recommends: Confirms that Hilton card is a separate bucket from what he has read. Suggests grouping by issuer for the apps. May or may not be able to reallocate lines - again ymmv.

3) Locking my Experian file - is there a consensus yet on locking my experian file prior to the AOR? I don't have a lot of inquiries currently but I realized that these can not be b*mped. On the other hand, there seems to be creditors who will outright reject applications rather than pulling from EQ or TU. As best I can tell, this seems to vary by state of residence? Lock it down or no? I'd be bummed if every Citi card was rejected for this reason, although I suppose I could unlock it and re-apply, right?

2COR Recommends: Not worth freezing EXP. Too much of a hassle and not enough inquiries on my report to justify.


4) Any view on splitting the AOR in half - starting with a business AOR, load up the lines with debt with EXP locked. Then b*mp EQ and TU for a few weeks, then follow up with a personal AOR. Seems like a hassle - is it worth the effort vs. doing the full AOR in one shot?

2COR Recommends: Do Biz and Pers AOR in the same shot. Dont worry about b*mpage right now since there will be too much administrative effort as it is. Not worth the effort.

5) Do I have too many planned apps? I see varying recommendations ranging from go conservative and do 10 or so vs. others who have done 30-35 recently with good success.

2COR Recommends: Have about the right number of apps right now. No A/A for 2COR yet but may be too early to know for sure.


6) Related to #5 are there any cards that are known to give particularily good credit lines that can be used for reallocation (ie. that don't themselves have juicy offers)? For example, I might not need multiple 0% BT offers from the same creditor and could switch up the applications in order to get better lines. Any comments here?

2COR Recommends: No specific recommendations. Look for distinct credit buckets by issuer.

7) Are any of the cards I listed in the quick summary more/less sensitive to inquiries? I am going to take a shot at reorganizing the list to the order in which I intend to apply.

2COR Recommends: None in my list are sensitive particularly to inquiries. Reorganize by issuer across biz and pers.


Other Valuable Information Culled From Other Threads:

From Venturion's Chase Experiment in Feb '08, the following Chase apps were approved -
1. UPS Business
2. Amazon.com business
3. Priorty Club rewards business
4. Chevy Chase Bank Flexible Platinum business
5. Chase Platinum business
6. Sony Rewards Personal

From r0man's Citi Experiment in June '07, the following Citi apps were approved -
1. Business TY $12K
2. Business PremierPass $6K
3. PremierPass Elite $20K
4. AT&T Universal $7.5K
5. Driver's Edge $7.5K
6. Professional TY $15K
7. Honors HHilton $25K
8. Business AAdvantage $40K

Message edited by: stook2001 on 2008-04-26 14:00:55 CDT

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Well, two people with good income, good credit scores, and decent existing lines should in general yield good results.

Assuming you want to do the 0% thing at all, then I would get a 0% business card from Chase (use it to reallocate credit to, then advance, it will be hidden off the credit report). I'd also probably get a BofA card, like their NEA personal card, or one of the business cards just in principal (they have a few rewards cards too). Might want to apply for a Discover as well, just to check it the last major lender off your list.

How much do you favor various rewards programs?

If you're very serious about United tier status, you can apply for the "Platinum Class" MP card, which can even earn EQMs via regular spending, as well as a few extra perks. But you can't waive the annual fee.... so if you're less serious, I'd stick with the link you have.

AX also has a Hilton card, and it's generally superior to the Citibank one as a daily spender (I'd apply for both)

Also, use the 0% money to open accounts with Fidelity for $100 bonuses and more airline miles.

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markkundinger said
How much do you favor various rewards programs?

It varies, I am reasonably happy with the core set of Cash Back rewards cards that I already have. That said, I'd like to rack up sign-up bonuses for travel benefits. This is the motivation for the Hotel, Airline, and ThankYou point oriented cards. I'm using my Fidelity card for everyday spending exclusive of Grocery, Gas, Drug, Restaurant, and Auto rental (rare). I get 1.5% Cash Back on the card and the mileage oriented cards may offer a better return. I need to think it over more carefully.

markkundinger said
If you're very serious about United tier status, you can apply for the "Platinum Class" MP card, which can even earn EQMs via regular spending, as well as a few extra perks. But you can't waive the annual fee.... so if you're less serious, I'd stick with the link you have.

Not that serious about United. I rarely fly them right now since I currently live in Dallas, an AA hub.


markkundinger said

AX also has a Hilton card, and it's generally superior to the Citibank one as a daily spender (I'd apply for both)
Also, use the 0% money to open accounts with Fidelity for $100 bonuses and more airline miles.

I will check this out, thank you.

Message edited by: stook2001 on 2008-03-27 00:05:30 CDT

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Generally the wisdom here would be to alternate the ramas of the two people, so that one's credit report has a chance to recover while the other is carrying all current 0% BTs. In this environment, though, I'd probably do an AOR ASAP, as lenders might get much stingier with limits.

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What is the typical timeframe for credit recovery once the 0% balances are paid? I'm not planning on being all that aggressive with the AORs or BTs since I dont particularly want adverse action taken (particularly on my AMEX, which I have had since the mid 90s). I mean, I am not THAT worried about it, but not planning on going super aggressive in this credit environment either.

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stook2001 said
What is the typical timeframe for credit recovery once the 0% balances are paid? I'm not planning on being all that aggressive with the AORs or BTs since I dont particularly want adverse action taken (particularly on my AMEX, which I have had since the mid 90s). I mean, I am not THAT worried about it, but not planning on going super aggressive in this credit environment either.

You don't necessarily have to wait until balances are paid off in order for your credit to recover. Start bumping immediately; don't go way overboard on the personal-line utilization; try to shift to Biz cards. With HYS rates down, it may not be the best of times to overdo it anyway. But you can certainly acquire new cards and increased CL's so that you'll be ready for round 2 later.

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Re: mileage programs, I was more looking if there were specific companies that you had or wanted miles with. For instance, American, Marriott, etc. If you apply for Hilton, Marriott, and Starwood cards, you could end up with a free night or two at all the hotel chains, but on one vacation you might have to check into three different hotels.

Meanwhile, if you travel a lot anyways, then you may one to focus on one airline and one hotel chain.

If you fly a lot of AA, you could get the Citibank AA card, and the Fidelity deal can do either AA or UA miles.

stook2001 said
What is the typical timeframe for credit recovery once the 0% balances are paid?

Three sources of damage from an AOR:
- Inquiries, which heal themselves with time, or bumpage
- New accounts, which heal themselves with time, or by not reporting in the first place(business accounts)
- utilization, the big one, which heals with payoffs

You need to wait until statements are cut to have paid off balances are sent to the credit bureaus... so around a month or so.

For bumpage, you'd need to generate >100 soft credit pulls after doing your apps. If you want to do this quickly, this means subscribing to multiple services, check out the thread here on it. Or you could just forget about it.

Agree that keeping as much of the utilization as possible on business cards is very useful and important.

edit: I have no particular recommendation on doing the AORs at the same or staggered time. But one thing to consider if you haven't done this before. The up-front paperwork and organization needs are staggering. This could mean you'd want to do both at once to get it out of the way, or stagger them to reduce the workload.

Message edited by: markkundinger on 2008-03-27 09:30:05 CDT

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Add your fiancé to your daily spender cards for a better AOR result.

My age and HHI are similar and my results are here and my wifes are here.

We ended up with about 450K in 0% money.

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dmlavigne1 said
Add your fiancé to your daily spender cards for a better AOR result.

My age and HHI are similar and my results are here and my wifes are here.

We ended up with about 450K in 0% money.

I don't have time to research this right now since I am at work but I was under the impression that the CRAs had changed methodologies and that authorized user cards were no longer of much value? If this is NOT the case, then I can certainly add her to my existing accounts. Thanks for the tip.

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Economist said
Generally the wisdom here would be to alternate the ramas of the two people, so that one's credit report has a chance to recover while the other is carrying all current 0% BTs. In this environment, though, I'd probably do an AOR ASAP, as lenders might get much stingier with limits.

Good advice...although, I think lenders started getting tighter last year...I wouldnt push things right now and might do 5-10 applications...I did that in nov. and relocated to the best bt offers and picked up a few 0% purchase cards and locked in a CD...

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If you're planning on trashing your own credit soon, I wouldn't bother with AU'ing right now, because once either one of you starts trashing your credit, you'll want to keep the accounts segregated.

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What is the rule of thumb about number of cards to apply to per issuer across both Business and Personal? I realize that Business is segregated from the standpoint of credit reporting, but am I correct in thinking that applications are considered in aggregate? Thanks for the great input. I will be adding some additional details about the cards in consideration. Also noticed a few dead or wrong links that I need to correct in the OP.

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Citibank: 2 personal, 2 business, 1 professional
Chase/First USA: Up to 4, 5, 6, or 7
BofA: a few
AX: a few
Discover: 1 or 2
US Bank/Elan: usually a couple. definitely not 7.
Juniper/Barclays: usually 2 or 3.
FNBO/Infibank: 1. Maybe 0.

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markkundinger said
Well, two people with good income, good credit scores, and decent existing lines should in general yield good results.

Assuming you want to do the 0% thing at all, then I would get a 0% business card from Chase (use it to reallocate credit to, then advance, it will be hidden off the credit report). I'd also probably get a BofA card, like their NEA personal card, or one of the business cards just in principal (they have a few rewards cards too). Might want to apply for a Discover as well, just to check it the last major lender off your list.

How much do you favor various rewards programs?

If you're very serious about United tier status, you can apply for the "Platinum Class" MP card, which can even earn EQMs via regular spending, as well as a few extra perks. But you can't waive the annual fee.... so if you're less serious, I'd stick with the link you have.

AX also has a Hilton card, and it's generally superior to the Citibank one as a daily spender (I'd apply for both)

Also, use the 0% money to open accounts with Fidelity for $100 bonuses and more airline miles.

FYI, the Fidelity deal you speak of is dead. The miles deal is still valid but the terms indicate 1 per household. The $100 deal is dead altogether. I already have several fidelity accounts. Might be able to do this once or twice, so I am not complaining. Just passing along the information for other readers.

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