scott1961 said:Then I think I should get better benefits since Between Fed and State I paid about $107k, Do I use any more services than someone who paid $20k? No, I just get to lose a lot of the benefits that the person paying less gets. Rebate check? NO, Child tax credit? NO, Use the Hope/Lifetime deduction for College? NO, I just get to pay 100% of bill with no loans or subsidies. I don't mind paying my fair share of taxes, Problem is I am paying way more than my fair share.Well, I think you'll find the term "fair share" means different things to different people. If you have a good, working definition for what someone's "fair share" of the tax burden is, please let me know.

Regarding the benefits, you get more benefit from the government's protection than the wage-slave living paycheck to paycheck. Benefits such as police protection, enforcement of contracts, enforcement of property rights benefit you more than some poor sap whose worldly possessions all came from rent-a-center.

Regarding the stimulus check, you are just being crotchety. I recognize this, because I'm crotchety about not getting one, as well. But if I'm honest with myself, I have to admit that a $600 check is not going to really make any difference in my life.

The same goes for the other benefits you listed. Sure, it would be nice if they were available to everyone (look, I don't qualify for them, either), but again, you benefit much more from the government's protection of your property rights than some poor sap's child tax credit.

The fact is I don't really struggle in life anymore, so I try not to be jealous of the help given to those who are. Of course, I sill reserve the right to grouse about my missing stimulus check...

lorcha said:

but again, you benefit much more from the government's protection of your property rights than some poor sap's child tax credit.

Have to disagree with that, This is America and every citizen is granted the same rights and protections. Sure I could do better but that would only be because I could afford better legal consul. If anything I am cheaper to maintain than the poor saps, You will never see me on cops shirtless and drunk.

EricGo07 said:Scott, ^^ Can I offer you a tissue ?
No thanks, I pay some poor sap to blow my nose.

I think the most fair tax is a consumption tax.

You get rebates up to a certain point so the people who are really poor can cover the necessities and not pay taxes. After that, you spend more, you pay more tax.

AGI: $145,896
Effective Tax Rate: 10.92%

Gross Income: 117k
Effective Fed tax rate 3.95%
Effective State tax rate 4.33%

lorcha said:dolmar said:But the person paying $10k on $50k of income is more than likely getting some benefits while the person paying $15k on $100k is getting no benefits at all. Did you ever think of that? People paying large amounts of taxes are subsidizing the other people. First of all, even if you make $100k/yr, you still get plenty of benefits: the highways, the military (you may not like what they're doing in Iraq, but it's their job to protect the homeland as well), the FBI, the Coast Guard, the National Guard, the National Parks Service, and many, many, many more. Way too many to list.

Regarding progressive taxation vs. flat taxation, I think I still have to come down on the side of progressive. I'm not sure what my '07 effective tax rate will be yet, but let's estimate 20%. There's just no getting around the fact that paying 20% of my income in taxes hurts me a lot less than it would hurt someone who was trying to raise a family of 4 on $45k/yr.

But there is no family of 4 paying 20% taxes on an income of 45K per year... they would only have 0 tax liability and thousands of refundable credits. And no one is paying $10K on $50K of income. No deductions needed.

It is those middle class families in the mid 100K income level who will start finding our tax system is excessively progressive as the marginal tax rates don't nearly reflect reality with the loss of child credits, deduction phaseout, no roth iras, loss of stimulus pkg, amt threats, etc.

14% tax on full gross here. 16.5% on AGI.

nucor said:damn you AMT,
effective tax rate is 21%

No AMT for me but I'm at 20.5% on around $112k gross, $84k AGI.

Is the fact I don't have a house screwing me???

nucor said:damn you AMT,
effective tax rate is 21%

Right there wit ya.

effective rate = 22.1% (theoretically drops 1 pt if there was no AMT)

Income: < $40k
Federal tax rate: 10.1%
State tax rate: 2.4%