after soaking up the wisdom on this board for a while in silence, i decided to take the plunge and did a 23 card AOR on March 31st from 12.00-4.00pm EST.
Age: 40 HHI: $114,000 State: Queens, NY 113**
Existing Cards 01 AMEX HiltonHonors $19000 02 AMEX Blue $7000 03 Citi Professional MC $9700 04 Citi Diamond Preferred MC $5700 05 Chase Continental MC $25000 ($2000 balance)(CL not reporting) 06 Chase Flexible Rewards Visa $6100 (CL not reporting) 07 BofA Platinum Plus MC $11700 ($6950 0% balance carried) 08 Bananacard $900 AU AMEX $24000 AU Citi $9100
Existing Pulls 4 TU, 2 EX, 3 EQ
CITIUSA 02/12/2008 TransUnion GEMB/BANAN 01/19/2008 Equifax CHASE BANK USA, NA 10/23/2007 Experian ONSITE MGR 05/29/2007 TransUnion BK OF AMER 05/04/2007 TransUnion CREDENTIAL RESEARCHERS 01/30/2007 Experian AMEX 11/29/2006 Equifax FIRST USA 05/10/2006 Equifax CITI 05/01/2006 TransUnion
AOR 01 AMEX Business Gold targeted (1P -> $100 & 5K MR) approved NPSL 02 AMEX SPG (CS $25, 1P -> 10K SP) deferred/approved $1000 03 AMEX SPG Business (CS $25, 1P -> 10K SP) approved $7400 04 Citi PremierPass Elite (1P -> 15K TYP, 12/$0) deferred/approved $8500 05 Citi Platinum AMEX (1P -> 15K TYP, 12/$0) deferred/declined 06 CitiBusiness® PremierPassSM Card (1P -> 15K TYP, 12/$0) deferred/approved $12000 07 CitiBusiness® Card with ThankYouSM Network (1P -> 15K TYP, 12/$0) deferred/approved $6000 08 Chase Marriott Visa Business (1P -> 25K MR) deferred/approved $15000 09 Chase Marriott Prem Visa Sig (1P -> 25K MR) deferred/approved $11000 10 BofA WorldPoints Visa (1P-> $50, 12/$30) approved $5000 CLI $7500 11 BofA Platinum Plus Business Visa (12/$30) declined 12 Chase Amtrak (1P-> 5K AGR) deferred/approved $14000 13 Citi HiltonHonors Visa (1P -> 25K HH) deferred/approved $14000 14 Advanta Platinum BusinessCard with Rewards (CS $30) approved $5000 15 Discover Miles Card (CS $40) deferred/approved $6000 16 Discover Business Miles Card (CS $40) deferred/approved $6000 17 Juniper National Park Foundation Platinum Visa (12/$50) deferred/info requested/approved $12500 18 Bank Atlantic Rewards Business Card (15/$75) deferred/declined 19 National City Lifespring Health Everyday Rewards Visa Platinum (12/$0) deferred/approved/blocked/info requested/lifted $7500 20 USBank Sons of Norway Visa Platinum Card (12/$0) deferred/approved $10000 21 M&T Bank Visa Business Platinum Rewards Card (6/$0) approved $7500 22 Chase AMA Platinum Visa Business Card (1P -> $50, 12/$75) deferred/approved $14000 23 WAMU Plat targeted (FICO) approved $3500
Final Total: 20 approved, 3 declined
New Business Credit Lines: $72900 & 1 NPSL New Personal Credit Lines: $87500 Total Credit Lines: $245500 & 1 NPSL
New Pulls 8 TU, 6 EX, 0 EQ
NCBK-NCCS 04/01/2008 TransUnion AMEX 03/31/2008 Experian CHASE BANK USA, NA 03/31/2008 Experian CHASE BANK USA, NA 03/31/2008 Experian BANK OF AMERICA 03/31/2008 Experian ELAN FINANCIAL SERVICE 03/31/2008 Experian ADVANTA FINANCIAL CORP 03/31/2008 Experian CBUSA 03/31/2008 TransUnion BRCLYSBANKDE 03/31/2008 TransUnion DISCOVER FIN 03/31/2008 TransUnion WASHMTL/PROV 03/31/2008 TransUnion FIA CSNA 03/31/2008 TransUnion CITI/CBSD 03/31/2008 TransUnion CITI 03/31/2008 TransUnion
Credit Scores 15th March FICO: 738 CK:788 31st March (pre-AOR) TU:747 EX:778 EQ:786 CK:803 FICO:730 1st April TU:763 EX:767 EQ:786 CK:828 2nd April TU:748 EX:774 EQ:786 CK:805 3rd April TU:746 EX:761 EQ:786 CK:801 5th April TU:730 EX:761 EQ:776 CK:777 6th April CK:773 11th April CK:800 15th April CK:794
Observations: the combination of living in NY and being a Permanent Resident rather than US Citizen prevented me from applying for some of the smaller financial institutions (Pulaski, Iberia, FifthThird), and in BofA's case they redirected me to a different card because of my location.
business apps seem to be approved instantly or quickly, personal seem to be taking their time (i had no business cards previously, so maybe i'm regarded as fresh blood).
my AU status on my (US Citizen) wife's cards seems to extend my credit history (with Equifax at least) to 13 years (as against 4). but it has proved a confusing factor for a few card issuers re different addresses reported.
Discover left messages on the landline of my last address for both my personal and business applications, despite that number not appearing anywhere on my application. the number still appears on my credit reports, so they picked it up from there.
opening a online Provident Bank High Yield Savings account is taking far more time and effort than the AOR. (attempt online app - told to wait to hear from them. contact them by phone a week later - have to submit all details again. 3 minutes after my call - i get a message from them inquiring if i still want to apply. asked to fax State ID. 2 days later - asked to fax SS card.) finally called a week after hearing nothing to find out that i have been approved and welcome pack is on its way.
both Transunion and Experian got a selection of Hard Pulls, but Equifax had nothing pulled except a couple of soft... so i was looking to see if there were any great cards recommended that generally pull on Equifax in NY, that i can apply for quickly before the other accounts start showing on the credit reports. after following the credit pulls database suggestion, it looks like the major players are HSBC,RBS and PenFed and none seemed appealing apart from additional utilization. the DCU looked promising but i didn't comply with their conditions - but it seems like a great way to utilise other credit lines that won't do DD or BT check for those who do.
it was great fun, incredibly tiring, and i can't wait to do the next.
thanks to everyone (you know who you are) for the inspiration and incredible advice on this board.
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posted: Apr. 2, 2008 @ 8:11a
markkundinger
Senior Member - 2K
posted: Apr. 2, 2008 @ 9:17a
creditboards.com com has a credit pulls database on their forums somewhere that might be worth a shot.
TheManWithout
Ancient Member
posted: Apr. 3, 2008 @ 10:11a
thanks for the creditboards.com database suggestion - HSBC,RBS and PenFed seem to be the only significant ones and none of the cards i can find are all that appealing to me (ie no capped 0%BTs that i can find or exciting bonuses).
so, i'm thinking of sticking with the current crop and keeping my EQ score high. unless of course, anybody has any better ideas...
win333
Senior Member - 2K
posted: Apr. 3, 2008 @ 11:19a
No EQ pulls? WOW, I wish I could get someone to pull my TU, not many will in TN.
Good luck
TheManWithout
Ancient Member
posted: Apr. 3, 2008 @ 3:09p
hmmm...
so if we swapped addresses for a couple of weeks, i could have a mini-TN-EQ-orama and you could have a mini-NY-TU-orama... nice
have we uncovered the next level of AOR? (it gets more like a strategy role playing game every day)
win333
Senior Member - 2K
posted: Apr. 3, 2008 @ 3:14p
TheManWithout said: hmmm...
so if we swapped addresses for a couple of weeks, i could have a mini-TN-EQ-orama and you could have a mini-NY-TU-orama... nice
have we uncovered the next level of AOR? (it gets more like a strategy role playing game every day)
I have about 15 address that are available anytime!
TheManWithout is now the TheManWith (an AOR). Welcome to the club!
I find in very peculiar that: 1. 23 apps resulted in only 14 hards (I'm assuming deferred pulls had shown up already) 2. You've picked up 8 TU and only 6 EX.
On this last point -- I'm in NY too and BOA, Chase, AMEX, ELAN, WAMU, Discover & Advanta (pretty much everybody except CITI, Wachovia and Barclays/Juniper) pull EX for me. If I were to apply for the list you did, I would have picked up abpout 13 EXs ... Would you mind sharing you ZIP code and or county? I'm in Westchester, ZIP=105XX. Also, it would be helpful if you could match the pulls to the cards or at least list the names of the issuers next to the pulls.
TheManWithout
Ancient Member
posted: Apr. 4, 2008 @ 10:45p
many thanks for the warm welcome.
updated my original post with details of hard pulls both existing and new - harder to match all of them individually to cards as i did multiple apps to the same card issuer, but it should give you a rough breakdown. i have a feeling that there are still a few hard pulls in store, cause it really doesn't match up, but your guess is as good as mine.
i am in ZIPcode:113** in Queens - interesting how different my pulls seem to be from your experience. all just makes it that little bit harder, and more exciting, when planning AORs.
on a side note - Discover left messages on the landline of my last address for both my personal and business applications, despite that number not appearing anywhere on my application. the number still appears on my credit reports, so they picked it up from there.
SecondCor521
Senior Member
posted: Apr. 5, 2008 @ 7:24p
TheManWithout said: i have a feeling that there are still a few hard pulls in store
Probably so. I recently had a similar ratio of hard pulls to applications as you did, and then there were more over the next few days up to a week later.
2Cor521
TheManWithout
Ancient Member
posted: Apr. 7, 2008 @ 3:28p
still no more hard pulls coming up - and i am one deferred card away from completion. (now the complicated bit - BT juggling etc)
on the whole a decent AOR - some low CLs but i've already managed to up one of those (BofA to 7500) - and a whole slew of bonus points on the way (which was one of the major reasons for doing it now - to provide some cushioning for a European trip)
thanks once more to one and all.
TheManWithout
Ancient Member
posted: Apr. 15, 2008 @ 10:31p
final tally is now in, and i'm really pleased i managed to secure 20 cards with so few pulls.
all this plus a nice invitation from AMEX for their Platinum with 25,000 MR points bonus, and my scores are around the same as when i started! although all that may change when the BTs post, no doubt - having said that, i'm going to be modest with the BTs and stick to the O%/$0 fee ones, so that'll limit my exposure to mostly business lines.
i'm happy to respond to specific questions, or update if there is anything notable to report (which probably means something bad). otherwise i won't be going into too much detail over the CLRs and BTs unless anyone really wants me to.
National Park VISA - 'Portfolio Credit Unit' AA: BT convenience check returned and CL reduced to $1000 (reason given: too many new accounts - 5 observed - plus too many additional inquiries).
since i was paying $50 for the BT i decided to go for $12400 out of $12500. i think it might have been this that flagged the AA.
mind you, with the interest rates nose-diving it's not really that big an issue, just a shame.
markkundinger
Senior Member - 2K
posted: May. 1, 2008 @ 5:44p
Wow. that's a pity. Along with being declined for Bankatlantic, that's really no love from Juniper (note, why was Bankatlantic so low on your list?)
How long after you got the card did you request the BT? Was there any sort of untoward delay? In this case it seems possible it might have been better to have the BT processed faster, rather than slower.
5 new citi and 4 chase...you are brave SO. Congrats on results!
TheManWithout
Ancient Member
posted: May. 2, 2008 @ 8:12a
although both Bank Atlantic and National Park have been traditionally great at giving large CLs, i was less bothered about them in the current low interest climate because of their attached fees - hence a low place on my list. as it stands i've probably got the FW record for the lowest CL with either...
unfortunately Juniper was the only bank that required me to send (not fax) copies of utility bills, photo id etc. before approving and sending me the National Park card which delayed the possibility of a BT until April 22 (FWIW i used the attached convenience check and banked it the next day) - by that time the close-to-the-limit BT flag resulted in a pull which showed far too much activity for their liking hence the dropped CL and returned check.
they have intimated (but not guaranteed) that they will reimburse me any bank fees from the returned check, and i will update as it proceeds. if i get the fee back, the lack of love means i'll probably close the card - it's pretty useless to me as it stands. (unless, of course, you know better...)
as i said, not too bothered about this - as long as it doesn't have some weird knock on effect with Citi, Chase or AMEX. (i can just imagine Juniper posting my current "balance" $22450 and my current "limit" $1000 with them to the various credit agencies and all hell will break loose).
nanotech2
Member
posted: May. 7, 2008 @ 12:56p
Hello, I am going to do a biz AOR soon (didn't want to muddy up the board with another thread, I know how you guys feel about excessive threads), I just wanted to see what your opinion's were for this order: M&T Visa Cambridge Citi Associated Bank Card Visa Citi A/A biz card VISA Citi Business Card Chase GM Business Card Chase Plat Visa Rewards Chase Business Cash Rewards Discover Business Card Discover Miles Card AX Blue for Business AX Platinum Business Card AX Platinum Business Freedom Pass Card BofA NEA WorldPoints Rewards Visa BofA NFIB Platinum Plus MC BankAtlantic Juniper Nat City LifeSpring Visa
17 applications, all business, almost all 0%, picked out from the knowledge obtained through FW, thanks!
but I've been seeing that order seems to matter, I heard that I should do them in the morning because some are automatic and pull right away but some have to be handed down to another office and if you want them to pull that day then you should do it early enough so that it gets to that other office that day, otherwise if its late they may end up pulling it the next day.
Also, as far as rewards for applying for credit cards, I am going to use cardselection.com, but it gives rewards for only three of the above listed cards (chase plat visa, chase biz cash rewards, & disc biz card), is there another site that gives rewards for applying for any of the other cards?
Btw, my scores are TU: 647, EX: 775, EQ: 759....I know my TU is low and I don't know why, all three reports show the exact same thing, anyway, I froze the TU already so they will only see the other two. And in my area (middle TN), most check EQ.
I have seven cards, 2 with balances 70-80% util, 3 with minor (>$300) balances that I just use monthly, and two with zero balances. I can't get utilization lower, I just need this additional AOR money now.
I only have one inquiry showing up on all three reports, pretty clean, this is my first AOR. Anyway, I just need to know if my application order is good? Thanks!
TheManWithout
Ancient Member
posted: May. 8, 2008 @ 12:51p
i actually think you might have been better starting your own AOR thread, but since you hopped onto mine, here are my thoughts:
1) not all of the cards listed are business cards... you may want to check around some of the Biz only AORs to confirm which are and which aren't.
2) for my tastes, you have too many biz cards with the same issuers - i'm not sure that multiple biz apps will get you very far since you are relying on your personal scores which are only ok (the low TU would have been a disaster for me since most of my apps pulled TU - but YMMV; check the credit pulls database for whichever state you are in). rather than risk crippling your score by multi-apps with the same lender that might all (and this is of course the tricky call since we never know) do immediate pulls, i would probably go for one preferred biz card with each lender first and then go back and do the others at the end (i realise that this goes against normal AOR wisdom, but i'm trying to tailor my comments to your particular situation).
3) i know that you say you need the money now, but that really isn't the best reason to be doing any AOR. you'd be far better paying down the existing debt and raising TU. however your lack of inquiries will help if you can try and use the info in the credit pulls database to prioritise non-TU apps then you might have a reasonable chance of securing a few. if they pull other credit reports then put Nat City and Juniper higher as they are inclined to do decent CLs for new customers wanting BTs
hope this helps
swishyx
Senior Member
posted: May. 8, 2008 @ 4:16p
Nice AOR. You did just over 2x as many apps as I did, and came up with just under 2x the credit I did - and a very interesting point, your HHI is $1K lower than mine, giving us similar profiles (although I think I'm carrying more debt on the CR).
Curious, did you know about the Citi Associated Bank card? Decide against it for any particular reason?
On the one hand, I wonder if I could have been less conservative; on the other, I had 6 new accounts in the last 12 months prior to AOR. There were a couple of references to the open account count in decline letters and in a phone conversation with Chase.
Most intriguing. I wonder what Juny is going to do when I request BT $$? I'm trying to decide on a target dollar amount or percentage to pull.
markkundinger
Senior Member - 2K
posted: May. 8, 2008 @ 5:00p
holy snot, you got a lot of credit with Chase.
What's your utilization plans?
TheManWithout
Ancient Member
posted: May. 9, 2008 @ 1:12p
OK - here's a little update to incorporate some of the questions asked:
Chase - they seem to be happy throwing cards at me like candy (or snot Mark, yes), but all of them are NPSL and i have no fee-free BT offer on any. so i am slowly and carefully aiming to Product Trade them for visible lines and then consolidate. however my first attempt at Product Trading (Visa Flexible Rewards > Visa Freedom) has somehow resulted in the correct trade AND a new Visa Freedom with an identical $6100 CL being issued. i am now very wary of doing the same again, because there must be a limit to the number of new accounts they will authorize before realising and going into meltdown. so after a respectful interlude of a couple of weeks i shall attempt to consolidate these two before attempting another trade.
Provident - finally got this account opened online, and was about to syphon all the BT money into it when...
Citi Checking & TYP Bonus - i discovered the very tempting TYP offer for depositing $25K + $1K into new savings and checking accounts respectively. i (foolishly) opened them in my local Branch with the intention of funding via CC, unfortunately the extremely helpful (but ineffectual) person helping me do this was ultimately unable to work out a way of doing this without it being processed as a cash advance. after having waited for several days to see if it was possible (patience is not my strong point) and with several BT checks to hand i finally gave in and deposited the checks to Citi in their Money Market Plus account. checking online i saw that the TYP offer account there was the Ultimate Savings Account, so i decided to open one of those too and try the CC route. a week later it had successfully been funded by my Chase Continental Airlines World MC as a purchase and i'm hopeful that the 25000 miles will be credited in the next week - this additionally allowed me to access the USBank BT by successfully transferring it to the Chase MC.
Citi Business Cards - having obtained two no-fee 0% cards with Citi i reallocated all but 2K of the credit line from Biz+TYP to PPBiz and consolidated my Citi Prof to PPBiz. having BT'd a modest 22K from this line, i may access more later but i'm concerned about raising too many red flags with Citi. in just under a year my plan is to pay off PPBiz a little early and reallocate my CL over to Biz+TYP which will still have an untapped 12 month no-fee 0% BT offer. obviously any Citi AA would seriously impact this plan so i am treading warily because...
BTs & Credit Pulls - there seems to be an increasing likelihood that any BT might provoke at least a soft pull (not only is this what happened with Juniper pulling EQ that caused their AA, but all the recent BT T&Cs i've read ask you to agree to an additional credit pull when accessing the BT line (obviously it is at their discretion whether they do, but it seems likely that this will become standard). it seems to be a second line of defense against undesirable extended credit, and although most people who AOR don't really fall into that category, we sure as hell look as though we do! so i guess we have to take this carefully until we have a few more data points (ie how high a ratio BT will provoke an automatic pull and which will fly under the radar).
Bumpage - pleased to discover today that daily pulls with CK since i started (and a few odd trial pulls with others) have removed all previous Inquiries with TU, leaving only the 8 that were part of this AOR.
Citi Associated - didn't really consider this one because i wanted to secure the O% biz cards with Citi and follow the process outlined above.
Conservative vs Rapacious AOR - interestingly, i think if i hadn't got so excited with the whole process (and i hadn't wanted so many specific bonuses) i would probably have been a little more cautious with the number of apps. obviously it's worked out fine so far for me, but i think i will do a lot more planning and specific targeting next time (since those new inquiries and random unneccessary cards are proving more trouble than they're worth).
think that's covered everything for now. for what it's worth, current BTs: Citi PPBiz: $22,000 National City Lifespring: $6,700 Elan M&T: $6,925 US Bank Sons of Norway: $9000
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