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Swish! Fight the Power Mini-AOR 1.0 (All apps finalized 5/12/08)

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Thx to FWF for inspiring a very small and experimental tiny-AOR last year that worked out *very* well. Time to move to the next phase.

Goals:

- Diversify personal credit for the day that AMEX (current primary) takes adverse action
- Obtain Citi cards from 2 credit "buckets" outside of what I'm stuck in now
- Obtain Citi cards with 0% that runs 12 mos from BT within 1st 12 mos, to use next year
- Obtain sufficient business CL to comfortably bury maybe $15K-$25K at 0%
- Increase cushion for util% by adding new CL

Questions:

- I am in the land of Equifax and expect Citi (if not others) to choke mid-AOR due to the inquiry pile-on. Would like suggestions on what order to do things in.

- Very interested in confirm/deny on whether the Citi apps I'm planning are in different CL "buckets" than the three cards I have (Professional, Sears MC, CitiBusiness). I suspect that the Professional and Sears MC are in one bucket, and the CitiBusiness is in another.

- What would you toss, what would you keep, what would you add?

- Does the Discover Business card report to the personal CR or not? Comments in threads suggest that the reps say it does, but people who actually have the card do not see it on their personal CR.

Inputs:

FICOs are around 750 on TU (2 inqs, 3/08) and EX (8 inqs, several are mortgage, most recent 10/17/07). EQ is at 717, 1 inq, within last 6 months.
Personal utilization is 11.5% (ish).
6 new accounts opened in 2nd half of 2007.
Average age 3 years 4 mos (EQ).
Researched who will pull what and inquiry sensitivities at FW and CreditBoards (incl CreditPulls DB).

Existing CL:

Mortgage, $340K-ish
Chase Visa Platinum, $13000 CL/$1286 BAL (no CLI available)
CitiFinancial Retail (store card), $25000 CL/$7078 BAL (@ 0% thru 5/08)
GE Money Net Rewards Visa, $3500 CL/$0 BAL (no CLI available)
Sears (Citi) MC, $10000 CL/$2674 BAL (@ 0% thru 5/09, no CLI available)
GEMB Relax The Back (store card), $25000 CL/$8829 BAL (@ 0% through 11/08)
GEMB BrandSmart MC, $25000 CL/$0 BAL (no soft CLI available)
BofA AMEX, $25000 CL/$4071 BAL (@ 1% thru 12/08) (no CLI available)
CitiProfessional MC, $1500 CL/$0 BAL (no CLI available - "at maximum")
Home Depot (store card), $15000 CL/$ 600 BAL (@ 0% thru 9/08)
Delta Skymiles Platinum AMEX (primary use card) $24900 CL/$181 BAL
AMEX Green, no limit/$0 BAL
BofA AAA Visa (secondary use card), $27800 CL/$948 BAL (no CLI available)
Capital One MC, $5400 CL/$0 BAL (no CLI available)

BofA Power Rewards Platinum Plus Business Visa #1, $17000 CL/$0 BAL (2.9% through 1/09 offer)
BofA Power Rewards Platinum Plus Business Visa #2, $27000 CL/$8800 BAL (@ 0% through 6/08)
AMEX SimplyCash Business, $30000 CL/$6100 BAL
CitiBusiness MC, $16100 CL/$13700 BAL (no CLI available)

Personal CL: $201,100
Bus CL: $90,100
Tot CL: $291,200
Personal w/o store cards: $136,100
Tot w/o store cards: $226,200

Targeted cards & expected inquiries in planned order of application:

BUS: BankAtlantic (Juniper) Rewards Business Card 0% for 15 mo $75 capped - TU
PER: Baylor Alumni Visa Platinum 0% 12 mo for BT with app no fee - TU **Consolidate personal balances here for higher CL**
PER: BofA NEA WorldPoints AMEX 0% 12 mo $30 BT capped - EX
PER: Discover More targeted 0% for life (rec'd offer in the mail 4/12) $75 BT capped, make min 2 purch/mo starting in Jan 09 - EX
BUS: M&T (Elan) Business 0% 6 mo for BT with app only no fee - EQ, sensitivity unknown **Consolidate business balances here for higher CL**
BUS: CitiBusiness with 15K TY points - copy the URL at the end of this link if it doesn't work from FWF 0% 12 mo from first BT no fee - EQ, inquiry sensitive (unconfirmed)
PER: Citi Associates Bank Platinum Visa 0% 12 mo from first BT no fee - EQ, inquiry sensitive
PER: Citi Home Rebate 0% 12 mo from first BT 3% fee uncapped - EQ, inquiry sensitive - wow I may use the rebates!
-- FREEZE Equifax HERE --
BUS: Chase Business Platinum Visa 0% 12 mo $99 BT capped - frozen EQ, should roll to TU, "less sensitive"
PER: National City Lifespring Health Everyday Rewards Visa Platinum 0% 12 mo no fee - TU. 1 instance of EQ/TU dual pull in Creditpulls DB, so doing this after the EQ freeze.
PER: Juniper IFly Visa 0% 12 mo $50 BT capped - TU ** added after other apps done**
-- FREEZE TransUnion HERE --
-- Maybe freeze Experian --

Scratched specifically due to Citi adverse action tendencies coming to light:

PER: Citi AT&T Platinum 0% 12 mo from first BT 3% fee uncapped - EQ, inquiry sensitive (should I expect decline here due to app count?)

Scratched for other reasons:

PER: WAMU Platinum mail-targeted offer, wasn't 0% on BT, it was 0% on purchases. Ixnayed!
PER: Discover More non-targeted offer (in favor of targeted offer), 0% until May 09 $75 BT cap
BUS: US Bank Business (Select Rewards?) 0% 6 mo for BT with app only 3% uncapped BT (ick)
BUS: Bank of America Business Power Rewards Plus, online offer at signout, 0% 9 mos BT 3% uncapped - EX soft. Offer went away.
PER: Linux Fund (US Bank) Visa Platinum Personal 0% 12 mo for BT with app only $75 capped, dumped in favor of Baylor
PER: Citi Dividend Platinum Select 0% 12 mo from first BT 3% fee uncapped, dumped in favor of Citi Home Rebate
BUS: Chase Professional 0% 6 mo $75 BT capped, dumped in favor of Chase Business
PER: BofA NEA Platinum Plus Visa 0% 12 mo $30 BT capped, dumped in favor of NEA AMEX - the Visa allows app to be considered for a different card with a higher interest rate.
BUS: Discover Business 0% til May 09 $75 BT capped - kicked out mid-AOR due to twitchiness over personal Discover app, and this post.

Other items:

- 4/13/08, Requested CLI on both BofA personal cards (soft inq expected), got 5-7 bus day msgs. Both cards were CLI-ed in Jan. 4/14, both declined.

- Ixnay the Home Depot $600 balance (though due to statement cut date, this is probably post-AOR activity).

All feedback welcome.

Shout outs:

To Glitch99 & doerrb for very patient Q&A last year.
To win333 for inspiring new trains of thought.
To in-thread helpers: peteypablo, win333, downhillskier, dougneb, hair, djspray, ahself, cyberkost, Rorer714.

Thanks for your AORs, used them for reference - EugeneV, stook2001, win333, ahself, Venturion, SecondCor521, robertw477, Brushwood, LordEcount, cashmonkey, jevon90

Creators of crucial threads - lhendricks92 (US Bank), stook2001 (Citi adverse action) SIS (The big Adverse Action Thread)

To those whose posts I study - SIS, DaveHanson, Glitch99, JayK

And last but absolutely not least, special thanks to markkundinger for shouting "Quick, consider applying for a personal Juniper card! It's not an omelette if you don't break a few eggs." - Landed me an instant $20K approval.

Message edited by: swishyx on 2008-05-12 11:53:23 CDT

Key strategies:

- Leverage ability to lock reports to ensure that issuers do not pound my EQ (man that sounds weird) or pull TU off-schedule.
- Consolidate balances on each side (personal, business).
- US Bank/Elan seems to dish out CL at a smidge above whatever you BT, so consolidate into the US Bank.
- Fallback - on the personal side only (don't want to piss off the smart bus folks) - if US Bank defers, do the same BT into the Discover More.
- Leverage b* with CR monitor services to tidy up afterwards, lest there be adverse action.

Credit monitoring services and CR lockage tools:
- TrueCredit (b* and lockage)
- Equifax CreditWatch Gold (lockage, do not use for b* for fear of choppage)
- CreditCheckTotal (b*)
- Chase ID Protection (www.chaseidprotect.com) (b*)
- National City ID Protect (b* - TC reseller)
- Credit Diagnosis (b* - TC reseller)
- Credit Karma (b*, TU only)

Used for a week (see note in bold)

- Privacy Matters 123 (b* - TC reseller)

***Note - Inadvertently let Privacy Matters 123 self-cancel. Cannot sign up again for 6 months per rep on phone (online sends me to trial membership and tells me I am ineligible). Replaced with Credit Diagnosis.***

NOTE: Freezing EX took it out of view on Chase ID Protection, Privacy Matters 123, National City ID Protect, and Credit Diagnosis. No impact to TrueCredit or CreditCheckTotal. No impact from freezing TU or EQ. All signups except Credit Diagnosis were done before EX freeze - some have reported signup problems after freezing EX.

Results:

In order of application:
BUS: BankAtlantic (Juniper) Rewards Business Card 0% for 15 mo $75 capped - **Instant Approved** $20,000 CL
PER: Baylor Alumni Visa Platinum (US Bank) 0% 12 mo for BT with app no fee - **CANCELLED**
PER: BofA NEA WorldPoints AMEX 0% 12 mo $30 BT capped - **Instant Approved** $5,000 CL UPDATE 4/23 CLI --> $7,500
PER: Discover More targeted 0% for life (rec'd offer in the mail 4/12) $75 BT capped, make min 2 purch/mo starting in Jan 09 - **Approved** $12,000 CL
BUS: M&T (Elan/US Bank) Business 0% 6 mo for BT with app only no fee - **CANCELLED**
BUS: CitiBusiness with 15K TY points 0% 12 mo from first BT no fee - **Approved $6,000 CL**
PER: Citi Associates Bank Platinum Visa 0% 12 mo from first BT no fee - **Approved $15,000 CL**
PER: Citi Home Rebate 0% 12 mo from first BT 3% fee uncapped - **Approved $5,300 CL**
BUS: Chase Business Platinum Visa 0% 12 mo $99 BT capped - **DECLINED**
PER: National City Lifespring Health Everyday Rewards Visa Platinum 0% 12 mo no fee - **DECLINED**
PER: Juniper IFly Visa 0% 12 mo $50 BT capped -**Instant Approved** $20,000 CL, Tier 1 rate 9.99%

Personal Approvals: 5
Business Approvals: 2
Cancelled due to paranoid credit ninja: 2
Declines: 2

Total new personal CL: $59,800
Total new business CL: $26,000
Total new CL: $85,800

Starting inqs:
2 TU (3/08)
9 EX (1 within last 12 mo)
2 EQ (1 within last 6 mo)

Viewable inqs at end of AOR application day:
7 TU (+5 - Juniper x2, Chase, National City, Discover)
10 EX (+1 - BofA)
6 EQ (grrr!) (+4 - Citi x3, US Bank)
Inquiries that are MIA - 1x US Bank (presume they are using the first one they pulled)
4/22 Inquiry oddity - the 4/21 TU inquiries for Juniper and Discover vanished.
4/23 The inqs that vanished on 4/22 are back. The 4/22 Chase and National City inqs vanished, presumably to return tomorrow.
4/24 The Chase and National City inqs are back.

Critical Observations
- Based on this and other AORs, expect US Bank apps to leave you in limbo - even if ultimately approved.
- Juniper, based on its being the last app, does not appear to be particularly inquiry-sensitive at app time.
- Associated Bank is in a different Citi "bucket" than the Citi Pro. Same is likely true for Citi Home Rebate and Citi Business.
- National City is *very* inquiry-sensitive, in addition to being sensitive to new accounts in last 12 months and amount of revolving credit already available. They also have no facility for instant online approval. Not recommended for AOR.
- US Bank, as noted by (some) others, can be conservative/picky.
- After 3 of the 5 new personal accounts hit EQ, FICO on that report recovered almost completely (AOR start - 717 - after 3 accounts hit - 716).

Detailed Activity

Apps (4/21):
BUS: BankAtlantic (Juniper) Rewards Business Card 0% for 15 mo $75 capped - **Instant** Approved $20,000 CL
PER: Baylor Alumni Visa Platinum (US Bank) 0% 12 mo for BT with app no fee - **Deferred 7-10 bus days** requested $22K in BT (post-deferral)
Pull CCT - No Juniper pull, US Bank pulled both TU and EQ! Ow! Wait - TC says US Bank only pulled EQ.
Freezing EQ
PER: BofA NEA WorldPoints AMEX 0% 12 mo $30 BT capped - **Instant Approved** $5,000 CL UPDATE 4/23 CLI --> $7,500
PER: Discover More targeted 0% for life (rec'd offer in the mail 4/12) $75 BT capped, make min 2 purch/mo starting in Jan 09 - **Approved** $12,000 CL Originally Deferred to verify identity and employer name/number - Originally requested $22K in BT
Pull CCT - BofA pulled EX, Discover pulled TU (expected EX). Both places that have pulled TU have deferred.
Freezing TU
Un-freezing EQ until 4/22/2008
BUS: M&T (Elan/US Bank) Business 0% 6 mo for BT with app only no fee - **Deferred 7-10 bus days - UPDATE 4/25 CANCELLED** requested $28K in BT (post-deferral)
BUS: CitiBusiness with 15K TY points 0% 12 mo from first BT no fee - **Approved $6,000 CL** Originallly deferred 30 days, got accessorize page at end of app.
M&T inquiry is a no-show. CitiBusiness pulled EQ as expected.
PER: Citi Associates Bank Platinum Visa 0% 12 mo from first BT no fee - **Approved $15,000 CL** Originally deferred, got accessorize page at end of app.
PER: Citi Home Rebate 0% 12 mo from first BT 3% fee uncapped - **Approved $5,300 CL** Originally Deferred, did NOT get accessorize page
Un-freezing TU
Freezing EQ
Skipping the Discover Business to see how Discover personal app goes
BUS: Chase Business Platinum Visa 0% 12 mo $99 BT capped - **Instant decline?** Your credit card application has been received and we will be sending you a response via U.S Mail within 30 days. UPDATE 4/24 **DECLINED** May have failed instant due to EQ freeze.
PER: National City Lifespring Health Everyday Rewards Visa Platinum 0% 12 mo no fee - UPDATE 4/23 - **DECLINED**
CCT - Bank of America pulled EQ while I was making Citi apps. TC - BofA did not pull EQ, they pulled EX. TC is probably accurate.

Apps (4/22)
PER: Juniper IFly Visa 0% 12 mo $50 BT capped -**Instant** Approved $20,000 CL, Tier 1 rate 9.99%

4/21/08 Happy-Appy Day-of-Apps Postmortem:
- Suspect the Chase Business app died due to EQ freeze. The response just came back too quickly and there is no Chase or First USA inq on my reports.
- Citi *did* pull EQ for all 3 apps.
- Juniper pull showed up on TU.
- 7 inquiries for 10 apps. Appears that US Bank did not pull a second time for the business app. The two "missing" are Chase and National City.
- US Bank pulled EQ instead of TU. This is OK, as it was the first app in my list to go to EQ, but it appears this is their report of preference in my state (GA).
- Double-requested BT of $22K to reallocate existing personal CR balances because the 1st app was deferred (unfortunately, so was the second).
- Requested $28K of business BT to take advantage of 0% for existing balances. Also deferred.
- All Citi apps were approved. This includes the Home Rebate, even though it did NOT cough up the accessorize page at the end of the app. The Home Rebate CL looks funny, like I hit an artificial limit. Finally, it looks like I did a good job of avoiding Citi nastiness.
- Pretty much confirmed that Associated Bank is in a different CL "bucket."
- CitiBusiness CL is identical to what I got with my first CitiBusiness last year. Suspect this is a "standard opening CL" for the card.
- US Bank is "still under review "Verifying certain information"" according to their credit ninja line (I won't be calling the ninja again)
- Discover is still pending.
- Chase automated says "within 2 weeks."
- National City is non-automated for apps. Not pushing since there are no inquiries from them - they need to pull something before they can consider the app.
- CreditCheckTotal (CCT) sucks for tracking inquiries. I have at least one it doesn't show, and one or two it has attributed to the right bank on the wrong report.

4/22/08 Day 2: Watching & tweaking
- Chase inquiry to TU showed up this morning. All part of my plan!
- Credit Check Total (CCT) is still incorrect in re: BofA (shows an EQ inq that is not anywhere else) and Citi personal (shows 1 inq s/b 2).
- Chase ID Protect (www.chaseidprotect.com) is *not* updating. "New" report is dated yesterday. Could this be because EQ is locked?
- Applied for Juniper IFly at original suggestion of markkundinger. Woo hoo! $20K instant! And at the 9.99% Tier 1 rate to boot!
- This thread at Creditboards indicates no such thing as an instant approval at National City, but will find out in 6-7 days if I was approved via arrival of the card in the mail.
- National City inquiry showed up on TU.
- Status at Chase is now "being reviewed," "7-10 days."
- Status at Discover is unchanged.
- No word from US Bank (no "you will get a letter" emails, so this is good).
- Locked TU after last inquiry (National City) showed up. EQ has been locked since yesterday.
- Yesterday US Bank pulled for app #1 but not #2 (either that or the inqs consolidated). Assuming that they are working both apps under pull #1.
- EQ inquries dropped FICO down from 717 to 706.
- Called Discover, they wanted employer name/number and asked ID verification questions. $12K approved. Should receive card by 4/29. BTs will be processed lowest to highest order. Not liking the utilization implications.

4/23/08 Day 3: Settling in, first decline
- Froze EX.
- US Bank says 3-5 days. Chase automated says 7-10. No working # for M&T Bus. Looks like waiting game for remaining cards.
- Called National City - DECLINED due to new accounts and excessive inquiries. Guess I had to lose at least one. But this is a good data point on how sensitive they are - they were the last to pull TU, and they saw 5 inquiries besides their own. 2 were from late March and 3 were from 4/21 (day of the AOR).
- CCT is way out of whack on reporting inquiries. It invents some and hides others. But its alerting appears to be accurate, along with its counts.
- $2,500 CLI on the BofA NEA AMEX. From the website. Did not specify desired CL. Not instant.
- Juniper personal card showed up on EX.

4/24/08 Day 4: Ok, I want my decisions please
- Chase Business - Declined - click for detail.
- Discover More is reporting on EX. $0 balance (does not reflect BTs - whew).

4/25/08 Day 5: Where in the world is M&T Business
- Baylor and M&T were actually both in same underwriting unit. They were unable to verify business address, possibly due to a move last summer. This turned into a request for business financials and articles of incorporation for my sole proprietorship(!) to consider both the business and personal applications(!), as well as an explanation of why I was applying for a Baylor card (are you a Baylor alum?). Decided it was not worth the hassle. Diplomatically cancelled the business app. Will let US Bank/Elan kill the personal app on their own.

4/30/08: FICO and CR watching
- After BofA, Juniper, and Citi Home Rebate hit EQ, FICO recovered to 716. It was at 717 at the start of the AOR. 2 more accounts to go (Citi Associates Bank, Discover).
- TU shows BofA, Juniper, and Discover.
- EX shows BofA, Juniper, Discover, Citi Home Rebate.

5/2/08: B*
- Two of the 4/1 inqs on TU fell off (yesterday, today). Might even be more by end of day.
- EQ inqs are still holding tight - for now. I expect them to be gone within a week and a half based on studies by win333.

5/5/08: B*
- TU inqs are gone.

5/10/08: B*
- 1st AOR inq fell off of EQ on 5/9. Remaining ones fell off on 5/10. 20 days from AOR.
- US Bank wrote about Baylor app - want me to call the verification dept. Letter does not ask for specific info otherwise.

5/12/08: Baylor is Dead
- US Bank will not process the personal app without detailed information on my business. Cancelled the app, as I have no interest in tangling my business and personal up so substantially.

Message edited by: swishyx on 2008-05-12 11:59:34 CDT
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Thx for the green jevon, just found the BankAtlantic card in your AOR

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Check that WAMU. Are you sure the 0% is on balance transfers? I'll bet it's on purchases only, but the mention of a balance transfer makes you think it's on balance transfers.

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Whoa!

Good catch. 0% on purchases WHEN YOU TRANSFER A BALANCE.

Have seen BT but no purch 0%, but never the other way 'round. Mucho thanx.

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The AOR angels must be looking out for me... in today's mail was a 0% for life Discover More app, apparently targeted, $75 BT cap, "for life" means "as long as you make 2 purch or cash transactions a month beginning in Jan 09".

Very cool.

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I don't see a point in applying for the US Bank business card with a nocap fee and only 6 months.

Reducing the number of lines in use can boost your score some. If you're doing longer term planning, consider paying off the Home Depot card (0% of $600 isn't very much), and maybe pay down a few other pay in full cards down so that they report a zero balance.

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markkundinger said:I don't see a point in applying for the US Bank business card with a nocap fee and only 6 months.

Reducing the number of lines in use can boost your score some. If you're doing longer term planning, consider paying off the Home Depot card (0% of $600 isn't very much), and maybe pay down a few other pay in full cards down so that they report a zero balance.

Both points taken. Scratched the trailing US Bank card - not much value there - and will make the HD go away.

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Questions:

(1) What kinds of reallocations might be recommended post-AOR?
(2) BT to checking - if I read the CC issuer FAQ right Chase is a no, Elan/US Bank is a no, Citi is a yes, Discover is a probable no. Anyone have different experience? Anyone know about Juniper (not filled out in the FAQ)?
(3) Anybody think I should try to get into Penfed as part of this AOR?

Message edited by: swishyx on 2008-04-14 16:12:09 CDT
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Frak. EQ only came up to 717 after getting rid of inquiries. New account count is hurting more here than on TU or EX, not sure why.

Revised to freeze EQ at end of most apps, and then apply for Chase Business, which should roll to TU since EQ is frozen. Changed out a Citi Dividend Plat Select in favor of Cash Returns for better post-intro APR. Booted Chase Prof in favor of Chase Bus to get 12-month vs 0% 6-month intro.

Planning to consolidate personal balances into Baylor card (US Bank likes BTs for higher CL). Planning to consolidate business balances into M&T card (same reason).

Expecting not-the-best limits from Chase and Citi, but we shall see.

May pull trigger today.

Message edited by: swishyx on 2008-04-15 14:01:13 CDT
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Put a whoa-nellie on this due to recent Citi adverse action reported against people with good credit profiles documented in this post. Seems to be driven by inquiries? Wait & see... grrr... maybe I should trim 1 or 2 of the Citi apps.

Reconsidering the value of the Discover More due to this post mentioning 4% (vs 2%) monthly min payment requirement.

Message edited by: swishyx on 2008-04-15 15:14:19 CDT
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Regarding the WAMU. I pointed out it was probably only on purchases. There is a thread on a Citi Thank You Points bonus good until May 16, 2008 (OP says until March 31, 2008), which includes a discussion about how you can fund these Citi accounts with a credit card and have it treated as a purchase. I set out my reasoning there for believing the CSRs who state it will be treated as a purchase and will probably have my wife's new Citi account funded with her WAMU 0% on purchases card. If I do, I'll post her result on that thread. From our experience, I can tell you that WAMU is very quick to make this balance transfer. She requested $20000, and got a $19500 BT in the other account within 7 days of her application. I then raced to get it paid off. Total interest paid $28.92. But we stand to make $900 on the 0% funding the Citi account. If you want to apply for this, we should know by the time you would want to BT whether it truly does post as a purchase. Of course, if you have many other more certain options . . .

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Very interesting. I will find that thread. May not matter for my case because my WAMU offer said to take advantage of it before 3/27, but I want to know about it anyway. WAMU seems to like my mailbox.

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