Kalun47's thread on how much folks borrowed for college had me thinking.

I'm wondering if there's an inverse correlation between money borrowed for college and future income for those who actually finished their program with a reasonably high level of accomplishment.

Anecdotally, it seems to me that most folks raised in the working and lower classes who themselves graduate see a much larger return on their college dollars, with less debt overhang.

To this, I'd like to suggest the following completely unScientific(TM) survey, brought to you by Sample Bias and Vague Definitions:

1) How much you borrowed for each of your undergraduate and/or graduate degree(s)
2) How much you have earned in gross income in your highest paying year since graduation (exclude one-time windfall years if you had one)
3) Your current age
4) The social class you believed you were raised in (see below)
5) Anything else that you believe provides insight in tying class, education, loans & future income together

For # 4, I propose the following scale:

Lower Class - Includes those who went hungry or were without adequate clothing, shelter or heat for a reasonably long period of time. If you've been here, you usually know it.

Working Class - Includes many blue-collar workers. Money was "tight", you lived in an unsafe or sketchy neighborhood or otherwise lived in less-than-agreeable circumstances

Middle Class - Just about everyone else. Lower-level salary earners to middle managers, semi-skilled professionals and tradesmen. If your parents have a thriving business (a la Scott1961) or are executives, then they get bumped to the...

Upper Class - Folks who have minimal to zero fear of lacking any true need, who in addition are able to meet a substantially large number of wants. If you were raised in an "exclusive" or old-money neighborhood, or make in the top 5% of all households, this is you.

/arbitrary and shaky class definitions

1) $0 undergrad, $0 graduate

2) $165K

3) mid-30s

4) Working Class. My Dad worked on the line for 35 years.

5) Interestingly enough, under these definitions I have a "bell curve" of sibling class rank: 2 Working Class, 4 Middle Class and 2 Upper Class siblings.

Both Working Class sibs didn't go to college. One is already semi-retired and has a decent standard of living. The other went through a divorce recently that blew up all things financial.

Two Middle Class sibs didn't attend college either; one will retire in a couple years in his mid 50s, the other is a serial entrepreneur. The other two sibs actually have doctorates(!) but (probably) make less than I do. They are in their 50s and were recently still paying off student loans related to their doctorates.

The Upper Class sibs are a Business Owner and a C-level Executive. The Business Owner obtained an MBA while working full-time, taking on no debt in undergrad or grad school. Currently in his early 50s, he makes in the top 1% of all income earners and has a net worth > $5 million.

The C-Level Executive has a bachelor's degree (no Master's) and is in his mid 40s. He has paid off what modest student loans he had; he attended a state school, worked throughout the school year and in summers. He is contemplating a (leveraged) buy-out of the company where he has worked for several years and currently is in the top 5% of all household incomes (and probably the top 1%).

Key Learnings - In my family, it appears that those who worked side job(s) and kept debts to a minimum ended up on higher income tracks in general. There has also been a fairly high degree of economic mobility, especially given that my grandparents were raised in the Lower Class.

What is the point of threads like this?

Do you really care how much other FW members borrowed money? Will it make you happier to know that someone borrowed 0$ and someone 200 000$?

Covax said:Will it make you happier to know that someone borrowed 0$ and someone 200 000$? I think what OP is trying to show is that future earning power is tied a lot more closely to a person's upbringing than how much debt he took on to go to college.

Personally, I don't think it's worthwhile to generalize like that. It's just too individualized. For instance, I have a friend who got an education degree and teaching certificate, but because of college debt felt she had to take a job in Corporate America. She knows there are programs for teachers to get their debts paid off, but she just didn't feel comfortable taking the lower salary given what she spent on her education. Anyhow, she earns more because of her college debt.

As for me, I grew up in your definition of upper class, I took on $0 in college debt, and I make what you would define as upper class earnings right now. So I guess I fit your hypothesis.

.

1) $0- Went to Community College for 2 years. I had my son at 18, so qualified for a bit of finacial aid, had a part time job as well, that paid for anything else.

2)Highest salary was $32,000 7 years ago(became a stay at home mom after that) in my field (hotel management)

3) 32

4) Middle class. Dad worked for GE for 35 years, no college education. Has the greatest retirement package I have ever heard of, retired at 52 with early retirement. Mom went to business college for 2 years, paid for by my grandparents. Worked for the state for 30-odd years, same retirement deal as my dad. Retired early, great benefits, both get full salary pensions for life.

5) My parents weren't rich or poor, but in the middle where I wouldn't have qualified for much aid (were it not for my son, I probably would have had to pay in full for comm. college) I knew pretty early on that I wouldn't be going anywhere expensive, and never occured to any of to go into debt to do it,had I even wanted to. My parents were pretty involved in making sure college was affordable. I don't think the phrase "student loans" was ever mentioned. I just pretty much knew I was either going to have to get a scholarship for a great school, or go to a state school that we could afford. Even my brother, who at 30, is just finishing his 4 yr degree at a state school, has never taken out a loan of any kind.

DH on the other hand, working class parents, with little to no involvement in his decisions. Ended up going to a private art school and $25,000 in school loans (we have it down to $15,000 right now) Never worked in his field. Was offered a job by his brother in engineering, and currently makes $76,000 plus quarterly bonuses. This would have happened with or without college. My biggest regret for DH is that his parents (or someone!) didn't help him choose a bit more wisely in the college area. Plus, I really think that he would have qualified for more grants/aid what have you, had his parents helped him look into his options. He had it very rough for a long time, BUT I think it has made him more financially responsible, and he does whatever it takes to stay out of debt now. So, maybe it is ok after all.