Severe Adverse Action from Citibank

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All of my Citibank credit card accounts were closed yesterday.

This includes, I believe 5 new credit card accounts (both business, personal, cobranded, etc.) as well as my 3 pre-existing accounts that were in good standing. I have not yet confirmed that ALL were in-fact closed, although this is what I was told by the Credit Analyst I spoke with this evening.

The reason given was exclusively the number of recent inquiries, which I was told were 13 on experian. This is, of course, the result of my App-O-Rama from 2 weeks ago, detailed in FW Finance.

In any event, Citi expects around 5 inquiries per year (this is what I was told). I discussed with the analyst that I had comparatively high and stable income that I could demonstrate with Tax records, current pay stubs, etc. Also described myself as a long time customer with moderate revolving balances that are PIF monthly. No movement whatsoever and I normally do very well on the phone with CSRs since I come across very professionally and courteous.

I was given the names of the Credit Managers to speak with tomorrow, which I will do.

Any advice?

Edit: Link to my AOR is here - AOR Thread Link

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A small Citi A/A tally:

stook2001 - 10 accts/apps, 2 existing / 8 new apps, no BT, max-out, or refund activity

singhonfire - 10 accts, 6 existing / 4 new, 10/07 AOR, oth circumstances unknown

Jevon90 - 4 accts, 1 existing / 3 new, large neg balance refund exceeding CL - noted no new accts on CR since Dec at time of "too many inquiries" on EQ, all were visible at app time, AU card was not closed

brushwood - 7 accts, 3 existing / 4 new, $25K BT on business side

alextan - no detail, 5 accts consolidated to 3 in Feb, $13K BT

74ak - 1 existing citi account, 2 new accts (in 4 years), reallocation from old to new Citi + $20K BT, "numerous reallocation" attemps to business side, 7 inquiries

Technique - Didn't have AOR

xCarsonx - haven't found AOR thread yet

Venturion had A/A but it was in the form of non-renewal of an older card, and the non-renew didn't specifically cite inquiry count.

teammjs - no detail, caused by inquiries from AOR, looks to have been picked up during hard pull for checking acct

Sinhcredible - no detail

DjPiLL - closed all accounts plus all wife's accounts from our AORs (including my oldest account). Credit scores did not change. Screw Citi.

tarcapone - December 4th - they got all my accounts and my wife's, including Key Bank and Associated Bank. 0% offers still good, just no new activity allowed. Interesting that they closed my accounts and my wife's on the same day.

TheManWhoExcaped - March 12. All CC acounts (two) closed probably due to large puchase/refund in a billing cycle. No BT outstanding. No AOR. 1 inquery in 2 years.

They Did the same to me after my AOR in October. All of sudden my 10 account (6 existing & 4 from AOR were cancelled)
I was in the same boat as you but they closed all the accounts.

Sucks badly

This happened to me about a month ago with Chase. I have 3 cards with them - Freedom, Sony, BP. They said they were closing my accounts after an account review because my debt had grown from 2k to over 40k. Obviously an AOR but it scared them. I called got a CSR she said they were closing my BP card and my Sony line was being cut from 12k to $500. Needless to say I was mad. I had just paid back my 10k BT too. So I talked to the CSR and she kept saying that it wasn't normal for a person to gather 40k in CC debt in a year. I told her I had 40k in my bank account and she said so pay your CC bills. She was rather rude. So I asked to speak to a supervisor. Explained that I do BTs and that I had the money. I told him I was just floating my funds because it was at 0%. He must of liked me so he opened my accounts back up.

My lines started at:
BP-500
Freedom-500
Sony - 12500 <- My BT

On the phone I told the guy I wasn't ever going to use the Sony to put the limit on the other two cards.
BP-6500
Freedom-6500
Sony - 500

Here's the good news. I got a letter saying my account was being restored. Heres my new limits
BP-6500
Freedom-6500
Sony - 12500

Yep bank error in my favor. Thanks Chase. From 13500 to 25500.

stook2001 said:
Any advice?

You may find this post and its follow-ups in the adverse action thread of interest. Technique actually managed to get his cards reopened, although it sounded like he had to give up a few spare years of life to do it.

Good luck. I hope that 5-count business doesn't stick. Interesting that they're pulling EX - I see them looking at my other reports, but not that one (far as I can tell, anyway) for my CitiPro and/or CitiBusiness.

swishyx said: stook2001 said:
Any advice?

I hope that 5-count business doesn't stick.


Thanks for the information. Just curious what this part meant?

** edit, duh - sorry - 5 inquiry detail that I posted.

swishyx said: stook2001 said:
Any advice?

You may find this post and its follow-ups in the adverse action thread of interest. Technologist actually managed to get his cards reopened, although it sounded like he had to give up a few spare years of life to do it.

Good luck. I hope that 5-count business doesn't stick. Interesting that they're pulling EX - I see them looking at my other reports, but not that one (far as I can tell, anyway) for my CitiPro and/or CitiBusiness.


While I appreciate that I am in your "every waking thought", it wasn't me.... it was a user named "Technique".

I've had NO trouble with Citi, nor Chase (other than the CLUSTER-F w/ a BT at chase that had to be re-done 3 times becuase of their over aggressive FRAUD department).

And BoA is still my friend.... I recently got a 1 yr 0% BT offer on an unused card w/ a 500 buck CL... I moved CL from 2 other cards to the card with the offer, creating a 55K+ CL... then procedding to take a 27K BT!!!! It took 3 days for the money to hit my BofA Checking account, and let me lock into a bunch of nice, decent APR, 3 month CD's... as a holding area until my other BT's expire (in, oh.... 35. months!!!).

Good Luck OP!!!

Technologist said: While I appreciate that I am in your "every waking thought", it wasn't me.... it was a user named "Technique".
LOL... woops! Sorry 'bout that! Off to correct my original post...

swishyx said: Technologist said: While I appreciate that I am in your "every waking thought", it wasn't me.... it was a user named "Technique".
LOL... woops! Sorry 'bout that! Off to correct my original post...


too late, I QFT'ed it...LOL!

This is not normal, is it? I did an AOR last year, and none of my old card got canceled. I got about 25 cards all at once. I guess must be the credit crunch recently that spooked the bank.

LOL, I guess Citi does not believe in being leveraged....

ArmchairQB said: LOL, I guess Citi does not believe in being leveraged....

Oh, they're leveraged alright. To the tune of $6 billion to some Middle Eastern country...UAE?

They did the exact same thing to me except that they pulled EQ. I am trying to bump the inquiries off and then see if they will consider reopening my cards. I have about 100K out in BT's though so I'm not sure if that's going to happen. I had over 70K TY points and quickly ordered some GC's. I am hoping I get them. I am definitely disappointed that I lost all my citi cards, especially the platinum AMEX.

InterestedOnlooker said: ArmchairQB said: LOL, I guess Citi does not believe in being leveraged....

Oh, they're leveraged alright. To the tune of $6 billion to some Middle Eastern country...UAE?


They are capitalized by them, not leveraged.

stook2001 said: The reason given was exclusively the number of recent inquiries, which I was told were 13 on experian.Per your AOR, you applied for 8 Citi credit cards..... I haven't read through your entire thread yet but I would venture a guess that 8 is just a little spooky (even in spite of splitting them 4 and 4 fiance and you).

scrock said: This is not normal, is it? I did an AOR last year, and none of my old card got canceled. I got about 25 cards all at once. I guess must be the credit crunch recently that spooked the bank.Actually, what wasn't "normal" was the incredibly loose underwriting standards of the early 2000s through about mid-2007, where multiple large unsecured credit lines were given away like candy without so much as income verification. By historical standards, that gravy train for credit "gameplayers" was unprecedented.

Careful, restrained, and/or targeted applications will likely be fine even in this current environment for people with good credit. But as has been pointed out many times here already, the large AOR is no longer a prudent strategy for the vast majority of credit applicants.


Best of luck stook2001. You'll have an uphill battle with 13 experian inquiries, especially if they are very recent. But good phone skills, patience, and demonstrable assets/liquidity won't hurt. Keep us posted.

jackcrawfish said: stook2001 said: The reason given was exclusively the number of recent inquiries, which I was told were 13 on experian.Per your AOR, you applied for 8 Citi credit cards..... I haven't read through your entire thread yet but I would venture a guess that 8 is just a little spooky (even in spite of splitting them 4 and 4 fiance and you).

Actually, the 8 applications were in my name only (biz and pers). Have not yet done the App-O-Rama for the Fiance. I plan to go more conservative with hers. I may lock experian and do something more like a few rolling AORs.

The 8 apps and 5 new approvals may have spooked them or perhaps flagged me for a general review. No way to know really. But the issue of quantity of apps or number of new accounts was not even mentioned by the credit analyst. The reason given was exclusively the number of inquiries. My app list, by the way, was more or less a duplication of what someone else had previously done. Clearly, the credit markets have changed in a significant way. However, it does seem quite clear from my experience, as well as some of the other very recent experiences on the Adverse Action thread, that we should be treating Citi with kid gloves at this point. It seems to me that they have gone far beyond even AMEX to the point where they are closing all accounts no questions asked and have no interest in even doing a full out customer review. AMEX is in the first first ask questions later. Citi is in the fire and ask no questions zone.

Nonetheless, I will work them over to see about reopening some of these accounts. There is nothing in my credit history to indicate that I am high risk other than the recent AOR. Although I realize that application sprees are not normal, I do believe that it can be explained and that my financial situation should put them at ease.

stook2001 said: jackcrawfish said: stook2001 said: The reason given was exclusively the number of recent inquiries, which I was told were 13 on experian.Per your AOR, you applied for 8 Citi credit cards..... I haven't read through your entire thread yet but I would venture a guess that 8 is just a little spooky (even in spite of splitting them 4 and 4 fiance and you).Actually, the 8 applications were in my name only (biz and pers).No offense but I am a bit more relieved upon hearing your response. I am not so concerned about my Citi accounts anymore. EIGHT applications with any one creditor on the same day seems very high risk (from my perspective).

How fast did they close after your AOR, and how many cards did you apply for before your last Citi one (which they presumably could have seen the inquiries on)?

My wife had two new personal cards closed, two old cards closed (sadly, the 0% for life with 2 purchases/month), but they didn't touch the new business card or her old Professional card. I'm speculating that a hard pull citi initiated on us when we wanted to open a MMA about 20 days after the AOR may have picked up all the activity, rather than fallout from the initial hard pulls (which were early in the AOR order).

On the 0% for life, they never even sent a letter-- only found out about it when the card wouldn't work and the online account services wouldn't allow more than basic functions. And on one of the new cards, they cancelled the card and cancelled the BT check 7 days after it was deposited in the checking account! So, you have you watch carefully.

I just did a major AOR, and am planning to freeze EQ and EX (which Citi tends to pull) to try to protect against a rogue credit request after the 1st 3 days have gone by just in case. I don't believe they can see queries on their routine soft pulls, correct?

jackcrawfish said: stook2001 said: jackcrawfish said: stook2001 said: The reason given was exclusively the number of recent inquiries, which I was told were 13 on experian.Per your AOR, you applied for 8 Citi credit cards..... I haven't read through your entire thread yet but I would venture a guess that 8 is just a little spooky (even in spite of splitting them 4 and 4 fiance and you).Actually, the 8 applications were in my name only (biz and pers).No offense but I am a bit more relieved upon hearing your response. I am not so concerned about my Citi accounts anymore. EIGHT applications with any one creditor on the same day seems very high risk (from my perspective).

No offense taken, look this is not the end of the world, I am reasonably confident that I can reapply for new Citi cards in probably 2 months (more conservatively, of course). The norm for Citi had been 5 cards. I added a couple of cobranded cards and based my apps on prior successes in earlier AORs. Their policies have changed.

That being said, you should be careful with Citi, check out the last few days of posts on the Adverse action thread. There has been similar action taken with MUCH more subtle activity than mine.

Part of the problem may be applying for so many new cards at the same time. Has anyone had trouble with Citi when they apply for a single personal and a single business card at the same time?

teammjs said: How fast did they close after your AOR, and how many cards did you apply for before your last Citi one (which they presumably could have seen the inquiries on)?

My wife had two new personal cards closed, two old cards closed (sadly, the 0% for life with 2 purchases/month), but they didn't touch the new business card or her old Professional card. I'm speculating that a hard pull citi initiated on us when we wanted to open a MMA about 20 days after the AOR may have picked up all the activity, rather than fallout from the initial hard pulls (which were early in the AOR order).

On the 0% for life, they never even sent a letter-- only found out about it when the card wouldn't work and the online account services wouldn't allow more than basic functions. And on one of the new cards, they cancelled the card and cancelled the BT check 7 days after it was deposited in the checking account! So, you have you watch carefully.

I just did a major AOR, and am planning to freeze EQ and EX (which Citi tends to pull) to try to protect against a rogue credit request after the 1st 3 days have gone by just in case. I don't believe they can see queries on their routine soft pulls, correct?


The order of applications was specified in my AOR thread. I'll edit the OP with a link to that thread in a minute.
I had, I think, 13 new inquiries on Experian. The Citi cards were all grouped towards the front of the the list, except for the Citi professional card which was the last card I applied for due to some issues getting the application to work. This card was rejected by email rather quickly, if I recall correctly. I was ultimately approved for 5 cards, 2 of which were business cards. I actually have not yet confirmed that all of my accounts have been zapped, which is what I was told was done, since I havent concluded how best to do so - I may just try to connect to one of the automated account status lines and confirm each card.

In any event, the accounts were closed about 2 days after I called in to enable them. I believe I received the cards a couple of days before that (was out of town when they arrived). I had started using my Premier Pass Elite card and racked up about 700 in charges in those 2 days. All of the other accounts, other than my original three that I previous had, were virgin accounts. Nothing like getting rejections on 2 straight credit cards standing on line at the post office to send out my taxes. LOL!

stook2001 said: But the issue of quantity of apps or number of new accounts was not even mentioned by the credit analyst. The reason given was exclusively the number of inquiries. My app list, by the way, was more or less a duplication of what someone else had previously done. Clearly, the credit markets have changed in a significant way. However, it does seem quite clear from my experience, as well as some of the other very recent experiences on the Adverse Action thread, that we should be treating Citi with kid gloves at this point.
Based on this thread and the Citi-related posts in the Adverse Action thread, it seems like AOR activity from February forward (maybe January?) is generating scrutiny. We really need more data points. Maybe:

- Date of last AOR
- Number of Citi apps
- Number of new accounts
- Number of inquiries
- Anecdotal BT activity

?

stook2001 said: That being said, you should be careful with Citi, check out the last few days of posts on the Adverse action thread. There has been similar action taken with MUCH more subtle activity than mine.

I applied for 2 Citi Cards in my Mini App-O-Rama 2 weeks ago. Citi gave me $75k in credit limits between 2 new cards. I took out $43k out of 0% money with no adverse action at all. I think all we are seeing is card issuers getting more conservative like DaveHanson stated.

If you are a qualified borrower you are not going to have an issue. People on the fringes or playing games with issuers tho are going to have problems if there accounts get reviewed. Issuers are not stupid if you live in cheap area or have an college address and you have hyundai card loan and put down a household income of $300k they going to think you are lying. On the flip if you live with your parents in an upscale area they might be more likely to believe you earn that kinda of income.

dolmar said: stook2001 said: That being said, you should be careful with Citi, check out the last few days of posts on the Adverse action thread. There has been similar action taken with MUCH more subtle activity than mine.

I applied for 2 Citi Cards in my Mini App-O-Rama 2 weeks ago. Citi gave me $75k in credit limits between 2 new cards. I took out $43k out of 0% money with no adverse action at all. I think all we are seeing is card issuers getting more conservative like DaveHanson stated.

If you are a qualified borrower you are not going to have an issue. People on the fringes or playing games with issuers tho are going to have problems if there accounts get reviewed. Issuers are not stupid if you live in cheap area or have an college address and you have hyundai card loan and put down a household income of $300k they going to think you are lying. On the flip if you live with your parents in an upscale area they might be more likely to believe you earn that kinda of income.


Maybe. I guess we'll see if they continue to take a dim view in my case. I live in one of the more wealthy parts of Dallas. I can easily document my HHI as well as liquid cash and net worth, etc. I was told that they didn't care about any such things and that they were making decisions purely on the basis of inquiry activity. This seems like an awfully ham handed approach since access to credit alone isn't really what Citi should be concerned with. I agree with your general comment. Was I too aggressive with Citi, surely yes. However, I can easily back up my qualifications for the total credit I have as well as the credit extended specifically by Citi. We'll see how they respond.

teammjs said:
I just did a major AOR, and am planning to freeze EQ and EX (which Citi tends to pull) to try to protect against a rogue credit request after the 1st 3 days have gone by just in case.


I'm really surprised at what I've seen in this thread about Citi pulling EX. I have 5 pulls from CITI in the last 2 years showing on my credit report - every one is TU. Could this vary by state? I'm in CA.

Do the EX freeze, and apply again. Search for the thread if confused.

AAlison said:
I'm really surprised at what I've seen in this thread about Citi pulling EX. I have 5 pulls from CITI in the last 2 years showing on my credit report - every one is TU. Could this vary by state? I'm in CA.

Pulls often vary by state. Recommend you check out the Creditpulls database over on creditboards.com. Useful info.

stook2001 said: I live in one of the more wealthy parts of Dallas. I can easily document my HHI as well as liquid cash and net worth, etc. I was told that they didn't care about any such things and that they were making decisions purely on the basis of inquiry activity. This seems like an awfully ham handed approach since access to credit alone isn't really what Citi should be concerned with. I agree with your general comment. Was I too aggressive with Citi, surely yes. However, I can easily back up my qualifications for the total credit I have as well as the credit extended specifically by Citi. We'll see how they respond. Despite the chest pounding (wealthy part of Dallas, liquid cash and net worth, etc.) you have to use some common sense here.

People who actually have the things you claim to have, don't usually waste their time chasing a few grand in credit card balance transfer money (or posting about it all day on the internet). Why? Because they're too busy earning a high HHI, and protecting their assets. Citi knows this, and that's why they closed your accounts.

All the bragging in the world doesn't change that. In fact, it further reinforces the reasons why Citi closed the accounts. You're presenting yourself to be something that doesn't make sense, and Citi sees it for what it is.

Not meant to be a personal attack on you. Instead, it's just an observation. Maybe one that will help you get your Citi accounts reopened... if you get my drift.

ifyouhavetoask said: stook2001 said: I live in one of the more wealthy parts of Dallas. I can easily document my HHI as well as liquid cash and net worth, etc. I was told that they didn't care about any such things and that they were making decisions purely on the basis of inquiry activity. This seems like an awfully ham handed approach since access to credit alone isn't really what Citi should be concerned with. I agree with your general comment. Was I too aggressive with Citi, surely yes. However, I can easily back up my qualifications for the total credit I have as well as the credit extended specifically by Citi. We'll see how they respond. Despite the chest pounding (wealthy part of Dallas, liquid cash and net worth, etc.) you have to use some common sense here.

People who actually have the things you claim to have, don't usually waste their time chasing a few grand in credit card balance transfer money (or posting about it all day on the internet). Why? Because they're too busy earning a high HHI, and protecting their assets. Citi knows this, and that's why they closed your accounts.

All the bragging in the world doesn't change that. In fact, it further reinforces the reasons why Citi closed the accounts. You're presenting yourself to be something that doesn't make sense, and Citi sees it for what it is.

Not meant to be a personal attack on you. Instead, it's just an observation. Maybe one that will help you get your Citi accounts reopened... if you get my drift.


Point taken, however - 8-10k is 8-10k. You make more money by making more money. That can be done with my W2 day job and/or it can be done with leveraging arb investing with the bank's money. All of this is relatively irrelevent since I have frankly never even done a balance transfer. Ever. There is no chest banging or bragging whatsoever. I was responding to Dolmar's point about relative credit worthyness. Frankly, my situation is the easiest case imaginable since the vast majority of my income is W2 income that can be substantiated with tax returns and current pay stubs. As I have already explained (as have others in the adverse action thread), the actions taken by Citi are being justified by inquiries ONLY. They don't care to understand your financial situation and instead extrapolate credit seeking with extreme risk - it is my view that this is an overly simplistic way of dealing with their issue.

ifyouhavetoask said: stook2001 said: I live in one of the more wealthy parts of Dallas. I can easily document my HHI as well as liquid cash and net worth, etc. I was told that they didn't care about any such things and that they were making decisions purely on the basis of inquiry activity. This seems like an awfully ham handed approach since access to credit alone isn't really what Citi should be concerned with. I agree with your general comment. Was I too aggressive with Citi, surely yes. However, I can easily back up my qualifications for the total credit I have as well as the credit extended specifically by Citi. We'll see how they respond. Despite the chest pounding (wealthy part of Dallas, liquid cash and net worth, etc.) you have to use some common sense here.

People who actually have the things you claim to have, don't usually waste their time chasing a few grand in credit card balance transfer money (or posting about it all day on the internet). Why? Because they're too busy earning a high HHI, and protecting their assets. Citi knows this, and that's why they closed your accounts.

All the bragging in the world doesn't change that. In fact, it further reinforces the reasons why Citi closed the accounts. You're presenting yourself to be something that doesn't make sense, and Citi sees it for what it is.

Not meant to be a personal attack on you. Instead, it's just an observation. Maybe one that will help you get your Citi accounts reopened... if you get my drift.

I think that where you live, your Net Worth, liquid cash and HHI do not show up on Credit Reports which the credit analysts review (yes they have your HHI from your initial app). My point is that the OP stated that the reason given was the high number of recent inquiries. Even very wealthy people with High HHI and good credit scores might try to rapidly increase their available credit in order to go on a spending spree and potentially screw the CC companies.

These guys are paid to detect suspicious, questionable behavior which might negatively impact their bottom line. It's that simple. No reasonable consumer needs 15-20 new cards. If your total outstanding debt rises from $1,237 to $89,300 in two months, then any prudent analyst is going to examine that VERY closely. Particularly in today's tight-credit environment. My advice is to lay low for awhile, and watch the utilization.

stook2001 said: ifyouhavetoask said: stook2001 said: I live in one of the more wealthy parts of Dallas. I can easily document my HHI as well as liquid cash and net worth, etc. I was told that they didn't care about any such things and that they were making decisions purely on the basis of inquiry activity. This seems like an awfully ham handed approach since access to credit alone isn't really what Citi should be concerned with. I agree with your general comment. Was I too aggressive with Citi, surely yes. However, I can easily back up my qualifications for the total credit I have as well as the credit extended specifically by Citi. We'll see how they respond. Despite the chest pounding (wealthy part of Dallas, liquid cash and net worth, etc.) you have to use some common sense here.

People who actually have the things you claim to have, don't usually waste their time chasing a few grand in credit card balance transfer money (or posting about it all day on the internet). Why? Because they're too busy earning a high HHI, and protecting their assets. Citi knows this, and that's why they closed your accounts.

All the bragging in the world doesn't change that. In fact, it further reinforces the reasons why Citi closed the accounts. You're presenting yourself to be something that doesn't make sense, and Citi sees it for what it is.

Not meant to be a personal attack on you. Instead, it's just an observation. Maybe one that will help you get your Citi accounts reopened... if you get my drift.


Point taken, however - 8-10k is 8-10k. You make more money by making more money. That can be done with my W2 day job and/or it can be done with leveraging arb investing with the bank's money. All of this is relatively irrelevent since I have frankly never even done a balance transfer. Ever. There is no chest banging or bragging whatsoever. I was responding to Dolmar's point about relative credit worthyness. Frankly, my situation is the easiest case imaginable since the vast majority of my income is W2 income that can be substantiated with tax returns and current pay stubs. As I have already explained (as have others in the adverse action thread), the actions taken by Citi are being justified by inquiries ONLY. They don't care to understand your financial situation and instead extrapolate credit seeking with extreme risk - it is my view that this is an overly simplistic way of dealing with their issue.


Trolls don't need answers. Just ignore it.

curtisekarr said: ifyouhavetoask said: stook2001 said: I live in one of the more wealthy parts of Dallas. I can easily document my HHI as well as liquid cash and net worth, etc. I was told that they didn't care about any such things and that they were making decisions purely on the basis of inquiry activity. This seems like an awfully ham handed approach since access to credit alone isn't really what Citi should be concerned with. I agree with your general comment. Was I too aggressive with Citi, surely yes. However, I can easily back up my qualifications for the total credit I have as well as the credit extended specifically by Citi. We'll see how they respond. Despite the chest pounding (wealthy part of Dallas, liquid cash and net worth, etc.) you have to use some common sense here.

People who actually have the things you claim to have, don't usually waste their time chasing a few grand in credit card balance transfer money (or posting about it all day on the internet). Why? Because they're too busy earning a high HHI, and protecting their assets. Citi knows this, and that's why they closed your accounts.

All the bragging in the world doesn't change that. In fact, it further reinforces the reasons why Citi closed the accounts. You're presenting yourself to be something that doesn't make sense, and Citi sees it for what it is.

Not meant to be a personal attack on you. Instead, it's just an observation. Maybe one that will help you get your Citi accounts reopened... if you get my drift.

I think that where you live, your Net Worth, liquid cash and HHI do not show up on Credit Reports which the credit analysts review (yes they have your HHI from your initial app). My point is that the OP stated that the reason given was the high number of recent inquiries. Even very wealthy people with High HHI and good credit scores might try to rapidly increase their available credit in order to go on a spending spree and potentially screw the CC companies.

These guys are paid to detect suspicious, questionable behavior which might negatively impact their bottom line. It's that simple. No reasonable consumer needs 15-20 new cards. If your total outstanding debt rises from $1,237 to $89,300 in two months, then any prudent analyst is going to examine that VERY closely. Particularly in today's tight-credit environment. My advice is to lay low for awhile, and watch the utilization.


Sure - and a this is also how banks earn money from consumers - by extending credit and allowing consumers to use it. They do soft pulls monthly. Is there higher risk for me today than last month, sure. Enough to cancel all credit, I personally think no. Not to mention, Credit Analysts can ask for whatever they want when evaluating consumer credit lines (ie. AMEX). My whole point was that the method being used is too extreme and poorly thought out. As much as we may dislike it, the AMEX Financial Review makes FAR more sense. Would I understand if they left all accounts open and reduced credit lines, sure. But end the credit relationship fully? Seems extraordinary. Looks, its not the end of the world. I dont HAVE to use Citi credit.

By the way, your address does show on your credit report.

Sorry if I missed this... But I assume your cards were closed before you could do the BT right? B/c oherwise, if you got the BT out, it isn't such a big deal b/c you shouldn't have to pay back the funds early (you just can't do more transactions).

removed...irrelevant to topic...my apologizes.

stook2001 said: curtisekarr said: ifyouhavetoask said: stook2001 said:
I think that where you live, your Net Worth, liquid cash and HHI do not show up on Credit Reports which the credit analysts review (yes they have your HHI from your initial app). My point is that the OP stated that the reason given was the high number of recent inquiries. Even very wealthy people with High HHI and good credit scores might try to rapidly increase their available credit in order to go on a spending spree and potentially screw the CC companies.

These guys are paid to detect suspicious, questionable behavior which might negatively impact their bottom line. It's that simple. No reasonable consumer needs 15-20 new cards. If your total outstanding debt rises from $1,237 to $89,300 in two months, then any prudent analyst is going to examine that VERY closely. Particularly in today's tight-credit environment. My advice is to lay low for awhile, and watch the utilization.


Sure - and a this is also how banks earn money from consumers - by extending credit and allowing consumers to use it. They do soft pulls monthly. Is there higher risk for me today than last month, sure. Enough to cancel all credit, I personally think no. Not to mention, Credit Analysts can ask for whatever they want when evaluating consumer credit lines (ie. AMEX). My whole point was that the method being used is too extreme and poorly thought out. As much as we may dislike it, the AMEX Financial Review makes FAR more sense. Would I understand if they left all accounts open and reduced credit lines, sure. But end the credit relationship fully? Seems extraordinary. Looks, its not the end of the world. I dont HAVE to use Citi credit.

By the way, your address does show on your credit report.


Believe it or not the CC companies do not appreciate we A0R-types. And can you blame them? They make virtually no money on us, and give us extravagant amounts of $ to invest in HYS for a year, at which time we re-pay them so as to avoid even one day's interest charge. So they risk $1,000s in order to make $0. So analysts are paid to detect our sorry arses and weed us out of their system. They don't care if it's fair, or too extreme or if we like it.

stook2001 said:
Sure - and a this is also how banks earn money from consumers - by extending credit and allowing consumers to use it. They do soft pulls monthly. Is there higher risk for me today than last month, sure. Enough to cancel all credit, I personally think no. Not to mention, Credit Analysts can ask for whatever they want when evaluating consumer credit lines (ie. AMEX). My whole point was that the method being used is too extreme and poorly thought out. As much as we may dislike it, the AMEX Financial Review makes FAR more sense. Would I understand if they left all accounts open and reduced credit lines, sure. But end the credit relationship fully? Seems extraordinary.


I think it makes sense precisely for Citi to do so. If you were bleeding money the way they are, you wouldn't do the subtle, time-consuming reviews even if they made more sense. You'd try to stop the hemmorage before finding out how to cure the patient.

Besides, no offense but you and everyone else here know that you're a bad customer for them. Citi knows even how much you cost them. You don't pay late/over limit fees, you don't carry high APR balances. Even without the large new lines and 0% BT, you're costing them money with no prospects of making a profit, on the contrary with 8 new credit lines opened. No redeeming features. So what would you do if you got new management and write-offs the size of theirs. At this point, I totally understand their attitude. It'd probably cost them more to have a financial review of your situation. They're not about to do that in their current situation.

I hope for you that I'm wrong but I'd be very surprised if you had any luck re-instating your accounts. But it should serve as fair warning for others starting their new AORs now. Those force Citi and others to look at your accounts and do a mini-review of lending risk and profitability. Take your chances responsibly I guess.

Citibank's Credit Management Department (the dept that closes credit card accounts) does not care about anything except what they put in the letter they send you. In my case, it was the same as the OP's. Too many inquiries. they did not care if I had $5M cash in the bank, they did not care if I had 100 credit cards... All they cared about were the # of inquiries on my report. They did not want to hear anything else...

With low bank interest rates and high BT fees, I'm wondering why people still bother with AOR's.

He knows when you are sleeping... he knows when you're awake,
He knows when you've tried to trick the credit card companies by doing an AOR.

Therefore, the man doesn't care that your income is comparatively high and that you pay your balances in full. You are NOT using the cards as intended, you are trying to trick the man out of his hard earned cash, and the Man is taking his cards and going home with them.

In other words, this is the price you pay for being caught doing something that the Credit Card Companies don't favor.

You are a perfect example of why it is better to build your credit honestly, rather than applying "all at once." Ask for huge increases, document your assets and get half of what you ask for. Then do it again in six months.

Alternatively, risk having your cards canceled. And not just the ones you applied for in the AOR.

Of course, plenty of people get away with the AOR and make a killing doing it. But they do so knowing what the risks are. Or, maybe they don't all know the risks. In any event, anybody reading this thread is now, again, aware of the risks.

Skipping 277 Messages...
WWScoobyDo said: Citi has not cut any of my lines, however, I notice that for all 3 of my accounts there is absolutely no balance transfer offers available. Not even a crappy rate, they just won't allow any balance transfers. Anyone else see this?

Ok, its been a few months and things have changed. About two months ago I applied and was approved for the ADA Citi card with the sweet 0%/$0 fee 12 month balance transfer. I was approved for 15k and put 10k into my checking account. I also switched an old Citi Student Card that had been inactive for years to a Forward Card so I could make use of the 5X points on restaurants/Amazon. I just checked today and now my Citi AT&T Universal card has balance transfers available. 12 months 0% with an uncapped 3% fee.

At the same time I applied for the ADA Citi card I also applied for the BOA card with the 0%/$0 fee 12 month balance transfer card. Also approved for 15k and put 10k into my checking. So my credit scores have dropped slightly with the two inquiries and 20k balance (0 balance before).

Strange, with my recent activity if anything I would have expected adverse action from Citi, but, apparently they like it because they are now offering balance transfers that weren't available before. I dunno... maybe they just like the recent activity on the Forward card. Previously I didn't use any of my Citi Cards for a long time since I still have a Chase Rewards Plus card with 5% at gas/groceries, but for the past couple months I've used the Forward for all my eating out.



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