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I am currently a couple months in a lease of a used 2002 mazda miata, I am paying $395 per month. I was in a bar last night and me and my friend were talking about cars right next to me was a car salesman he overheard our conversation and told me he could put me in a new mazda miata and pretty much wipe out most of the car debt I had. Basically they would buyout my car and the remainder of the finance would be put towards the down payment of the lease. This would in turn pretty much eliminate my debt on the car.
So my question is, is this possible?

Is this car salesman greedy and just looking for a sale, he was bragging to me on how his dealership sold the most cars last month?

I would very much like to get rid of the loan I have on my current vehicle, any advice on how I can do this?

Is leasing better, I'd be using the car as my everyday driver and I am worried that I may go over on miles when the lease is up.

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Wow.....just wow.

If I was only unethical, I could make a mint in this world just by knowing FV=PV*(1+i)^n.......

BobM73 (Apr. 18, 2008 @ 1:38p) |

Not to mention that he took a vehicle that was in transition to a new generation. The current generation Mustangs were s... (more)

rjj130 (Apr. 18, 2008 @ 1:42p) |

can anyone reccomend me going to prosper to look for a loan?

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/08_18/b40820000... (more)

time4wrk (Apr. 24, 2008 @ 10:59a) |

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time4wrk said: ......... I would very much like to get rid of the loan I have on my current vehicle, any advice on how I can do this? ....

pay it off




--- (sorry folks I couldn't resist --- the proper response to this type of thread is to let it die a quick death)

paying it off is good but If I could get rid of most of it and possibly have little to owe would this not be considered paying it off quicker?

If you can't trust a guy in a bar who admits to being a car salesman, who can you trust? Get out to his dealership and sign whatever he gives you.

Common sense might argue that buying a new car is not possibly going to give you extra funds to buy out a new lease or anything else. But again, we're talking about the word of a car salesman.

He's going to roll your remaining payments to your new car. By "eliminate your debt" he means add to your misery. Do this a few times and you'll find you have a $40k loan for a 15K car.

Just stick out your current lease or list it on a lease trading website to try to get out of it.


ceobeaver said: He's going to roll your remaining payments to your new car. By "eliminate your debt" he means add to your misery. Do this a few times and you'll find you have a $40k loan for a 15K car.

Just stick out your current lease or list it on a lease trading website to try to get out of it.


I am currently financing a used car, and would like to lease a new car if it would lower my current finance debt.
This is the situation I am in.

If you think money grows on trees then make the deal, if not, forget about the salesmen from last night.

time4wrk said: ------- I am currently financing a used car, and would like to lease a new car if it would lower my current finance debt.
This is the situation I am in.


abracadabra!!!! poof!!!!!!!! your debt is gone

time4wrk said: ceobeaver said: He's going to roll your remaining payments to your new car. By "eliminate your debt" he means add to your misery. Do this a few times and you'll find you have a $40k loan for a 15K car.

Just stick out your current lease or list it on a lease trading website to try to get out of it.


I am currently financing a used car, and would like to lease a new car if it would lower my current finance debt.
This is the situation I am in.


You dont understand, dont look at monthly payment, smart thing is what you did: Finance a second hand car. In general the worst thing is leasing a new car. I dont care what your monthly payment will be, definetly 5 years cost of leasing a new vehicle will be much higher. If you really want to save money: Sell your car, and finance a cheaper car not lease a brand new car!

Edit: If you think what I advised does not make sense to you, please read more personal finance books for your own good. I dont want you to make this kind of terrible financial decision in other parts of life

this might be a better explanation

Bought a 2002 Used miata
51 payments left
APR 14.8%
$395.75 paying per month
$15,085.75 left on the loan

If I can trade this car in to the dealer and get at least $12,000, will it be worthit to lease a new car making $395 per month for the lease of the new car or lower maybe, or should I stick to paying what I am paying right now?

time4wrk said: I am currently a couple months in a lease of a used 2002 mazda miata, I am paying $395 per month.

How does this statement translate to you financing a used car?

... it doesn't matter. If you are financing, your problem is simple. He's going to offer you an amount for your trade in. If it is more than you currently owe, then the difference can be used to lower the CAP cost of your lease. If the trade in value is less than what you owe, he's going to ADD the difference to the CAP cost of your lease.

Personally, I wouldn't use a trade in for a lease. Try to sell it first and put the money you make (assuming you're not upside down) in a savings account and use it for payments of the lease. Don't use it to reduce the CAP cost. If you crash it or if it gets stolen, that money just went up in smoke.

If you are upside down in the car, just hang on to it, or bite the bullet and sell it at a loss to a private party.

turkey79 said: ..... I dont care what your monthly payment will be, definetly 5 years cost of leasing a new vehicle will be much higher....

for those into leases --- national lease specials offered through America Honda Finance can get you pretty close to the same cost financing a new vehicle --- so at the end of the 3 year lease on the Honda Accord --- if you decide buy it, the cost isn't much different then if you bought it in the first place --- as far as buying or leasing a new car being a bad thing --- I disagree --- I have enjoyed all my new car purchases

as far as paying $395 a month for a 2002 Miata --- without knowing what he paid for it, I can guess that OP got ripped off

time4wrk said: this might be a better explanation

Bought a 2002 Used miata
51 payments left
APR 14.8%
$395.75 paying per month
$15,085.75 left on the loan

If I can trade this car in to the dealer and get at least $12,000, will it be worthit to lease a new car making $395 per month for the lease of the new car or lower maybe, or should I stick to paying what I am paying right now?


If you get 12G for your trade in, he's going to roll that extra 3G into your new lease and more than likely you'll be paying more than 395/month for a new car. I wouldn't advise this.

Try to refinance. Even if you can get 10% rate, you'll save yourself about $70/ month. If you can manage to get PenFed loan (not sure what their car age limit is) you can save yourself almost $150/month.

germanpope said: turkey79 said: ..... I dont care what your monthly payment will be, definetly 5 years cost of leasing a new vehicle will be much higher....

for those into leases --- national lease specials offered through America Honda Finance can get you pretty close to the same cost financing a new vehicle --- so at the end of the 3 year lease on the Honda Accord --- if you decide buy it, the cost isn't much different then if you bought it in the first place --- as far as buying or leasing a new car being a bad thing --- I disagree --- I have enjoyed all my new car purchases

as far as paying $395 a month for a 2002 Miata --- without knowing what he paid for it, I can guess that OP got ripped off

Yes I did get ripped off but it was my first time buying a used car by myself with no money down I was upset about it and I learned a lesson that day to.
I had made him go down to $11,700 and then he trew in bs window etching which the car already had, and I wanted a warrenty plan, I didn't need it pissed off about that, and it came out to $16,000 very upset about that but it was my first time and i learned a lot that day.

time4wrk said: --- APR 14.8% --- $15,085.75 --- get at least $12,000

good luck getting $12,000 from a dealer for a six year old car that only has two seats

I give you credit for at least asking the questions OP --- but please spend more time searching and reading and less time listening to people in bars

if you educate yourself --- then you have the enjoyment of instantly dismissing the guy in the bar for what he is --- or you can toy with these types if you want

time4wrk said: this might be a better explanation

Bought a 2002 Used miata
51 payments left
APR 14.8%
$395.75 paying per month
$15,085.75 left on the loan

If I can trade this car in to the dealer and get at least $12,000, will it be worthit to lease a new car making $395 per month for the lease of the new car or lower maybe, or should I stick to paying what I am paying right now?


A very quick search on Edmunds.com reveals that you'll be lucky to get 10G trade in value. And since this guy is sizing you up in a bar, he'll probably only offer you 8.

You're definitely upside down in this one. Consider it lesson learned, try to refinance if you can to get a lower rate, and ride it out.

OP currently spending $395.75 a month for 51 months is still less in the long run than $300 a month for 96 months. That sounds like the type of deal the salesman is offering. Sure your monthly payments will be lower but your overall payment will be higher.

Probably the best advice would be not to go out to bars on Wednesday nights and use that savings to pay down current car loan faster.

I wish I had seen this video before I purchased my car
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPor5b7JLLE
I do not spend a lot of money in a bar usually buy one drink and hang out with my friend for an hour then I leave he usually spends.

Your advice has been very helpful and has saved me from making a mistake.

How do I go about refianancing? Do I call up the company I am fianacing my car right now and ask them for a lower APR? I can do this with credit card companies as well correct?

time4wrk said: I wish I had seen this video before I purchased my car
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPor5b7JLLE
I do not spend a lot of money in a bar usually buy one drink and hang out with my friend for an hour then I leave he usually spends.

Your advice has been very helpful and has saved me from making a mistake.

How do I go about refianancing? Do I call up the company I am fianacing my car right now and ask them for a lower APR? I can do this with credit card companies as well correct?


It never hurts to ask for a lower rate with your current lender, but don't be surprised if they turn you down. What you should focus on is finding a lender with an interest rate below 10%. Call them up and tell them you're looking to refinance and see what rates they'll give you. They can also walk you through the process.

Congratulations on finding this forum. It will save you (or make you) literally thousands of dollars. My advice to you is SEARCH SEARCH SEARCH! There are tons of gems here and it will help you immensely. If you have a question, chances are someone else has already had that same question, so always search before you post. Your efforts will be vastly rewarded.

Good luck.

You do realize you can most likely cancel the extended warranty and get a prorated amount credited to your loan. My guess is you also bought life and disability insurance along with gap which is all also cancellable, but I wouldn't cancel the gap in your instance as you certainly need it. Folks, if you can't pay cash for it, you can't afford it, or if you absolutely have to finance it, if you can't put 20% down and afford the payment over 48 months at the most you definately can't afford it.

superdrew said: You do realize you can most likely cancel the extended warranty and get a prorated amount credited to your loan. My guess is you also bought life and disability insurance along with gap which is all also cancellable, but I wouldn't cancel the gap in your instance as you certainly need it. Folks, if you can't pay cash for it, you can't afford it, or if you absolutely have to finance it, if you can't put 20% down and afford the payment over 48 months at the most you definately can't afford it.

I will try to cancel the warrenty it is useless to me.

germanpope said: turkey79 said: ..... I dont care what your monthly payment will be, definetly 5 years cost of leasing a new vehicle will be much higher....

for those into leases --- national lease specials offered through America Honda Finance can get you pretty close to the same cost financing a new vehicle --- so at the end of the 3 year lease on the Honda Accord --- if you decide buy it, the cost isn't much different then if you bought it in the first place --- as far as buying or leasing a new car being a bad thing --- I disagree --- I have enjoyed all my new car purchases

as far as paying $395 a month for a 2002 Miata --- without knowing what he paid for it, I can guess that OP got ripped off


I am not making a generalized statement that financing any new car is financially sound than leasing it. I am saying that it is worse for him to sell his second hand car and lease a brand new car and it is the same car except 5 years younger.

time4wrk, spend 3 mins checking this out for all our sakes

Best way to buy a car

jwillgoesfast said: time4wrk, spend 3 mins checking this out for all our sakes

Best way to buy a car

Dave ramsey i was reading about him yesterday, about getting rid of debt and the "snowball method"!

time4wrk said: this might be a better explanation

Bought a 2002 Used miata
51 payments left
APR 14.8%
$395.75 paying per month
$15,085.75 left on the loan

If I can trade this car in to the dealer and get at least $12,000, will it be worthit to lease a new car making $395 per month for the lease of the new car or lower maybe, or should I stick to paying what I am paying right now?


Go to your local credit union
Set up an account with the minimum in it. Ask them to to loan you $15085. They will be at a MUCH lower rate then 14.8% maybe half. Pay off car note. then pay monthly payments to credit union. Continue to pay $396 a month even though minimum will be much less. over 5K of the loan left at the moment is interest payments and lowering interest rate and increasing how much principle you pay every month will get you out of that hole.

Once you pay off the car at a lower interest rate in about 3.5-4 years continue to save that $396 amonth in a high interest checking account so that when it comes time to buy a replacement car you can afford to pay cash.

ceobeaver said: time4wrk said: this might be a better explanation

Bought a 2002 Used miata
51 payments left
APR 14.8%
$395.75 paying per month
$15,085.75 left on the loan

If I can trade this car in to the dealer and get at least $12,000, will it be worthit to lease a new car making $395 per month for the lease of the new car or lower maybe, or should I stick to paying what I am paying right now?


If you get 12G for your trade in, he's going to roll that extra 3G into your new lease and more than likely you'll be paying more than 395/month for a new car. I wouldn't advise this.

Try to refinance. Even if you can get 10% rate, you'll save yourself about $70/ month. If you can manage to get PenFed loan (not sure what their car age limit is) you can save yourself almost $150/month.


He can still pay $395 a month, it will just be for 72 months instead of 51.

They can always give you the same payment, because they will just add time on to the loan.

You're still paying more.

jwillgoesfast said: time4wrk, spend 3 mins checking this out for all our sakes

Best way to buy a car


i want the 12% a year return plan please. Where can I sign up? I'm putting all my money their.


his idea is sound, his rate of return is out of this world.

superdrew said: Folks, if you can't pay cash for it, you can't afford it, or if you absolutely have to finance it, if you can't put 20% down and afford the payment over 48 months at the most you definately can't afford it.
I'll agree with you with the exception of primary home. Even then the 20% down is needed but well honestly if you can pay off your morgage in 4 years I'm envious.

jwillgoesfast said: time4wrk, spend 3 mins checking this out for all our sakes

Best way to buy a car

He also says that cars depreciate 70% over four years. Yeah right.... maybe a Yugo.

2008 ford mustang convertible $24,475
2004 ford mustang convertible avg condition $8,150
Source Edmunds.com for my zip
humm loss of 67% and that is without and major dings or repairs and only 60K miles. Also for a private party sale.Trade in value closer to 7K or over 70% down.
So 70% in 4 years seems believable for a non yugo to me

PooDonkey said: jwillgoesfast said: time4wrk, spend 3 mins checking this out for all our sakes

Best way to buy a car

He also says that cars depreciate 70% over four years. Yeah right.... maybe a Yugo.


70% is the depreciation between a Yugo with a full tank of gas and an empty one. No other value for a Yugo to lose over time...

lindylady said: 2008 ford mustang convertible $24,475
2004 ford mustang convertible avg condition $8,150
Source Edmunds.com for my zip
humm loss of 67% and that is without and major dings or repairs and only 60K miles. Also for a private party sale.Trade in value closer to 7K or over 70% down.
So 70% in 4 years seems believable for a non yugo to me

Your example is flawed. First off, you can't compare the price of a new car today to a car 4 years old. You have to compare the price the car was new in 2004 since that is the actual amount paid for the car. Secondly, how can you say "only" 60K miles when that is 12K more than average. The model that you picked is also near the high end of depreciation. The "average" condition takes off an additional $2K off and is not representative of the condition of most 4 year old cars.

Sure, you could devalue a car by driving excessive miles and treating your car like crap, but that has nothing to do regular driving conditions for most people. His 70% figure is grossly inflated and is closer to 50% in the majority of situations.

Granted, you can find special cases where this isn't true but that isn't the case most of the time.

PooDonkey said: He also says that cars depreciate 70% over four years. Yeah right.... maybe a Yugo.

I agree w/ you. This number is misleading b/c it bases on the MSRP (same as when you lease a car) not the actual purchase price.

lindylady: I never look at the Mustang so I will not wast my time to find the exact numbers but I can give you other examples:

2008 Camry LE- can be purchased for ~18.5 + TTL, a 2004 LE (good condition w/ 50K miles) trade in value should be ~9K (= ~51% depreciation)
2008 Altima 2.5S- can be purchased for ~18.5 + TTL, a 2004 2.5S trade in value should be ~8.1K (= ~55% depreciation)

Edit: I just check Edmunds trade in value and it's higher than KBB (10K for Camry and 8.7K for Altima (clean condition w/ 50K miles). So, the depreciation can be even lower.

You can Lease a brand new one here
$219/Month, 24-Month Lease, $2,219 due at Lease Signing after $1,000 MAC lease Cash Back. Includes 1st Month's Payment and Acquisition Fee. Excludes taxes, title and fees. (**)
(**) Dealer participation required. Not all lessees will qualify for lowest payment through Mazda American Credit. Some payments higher, some lower based on residency and other factors. Lessee responsible for excess wear and mileage over 24,000 at $0.15/mile. No security deposit required. Total payments of $5,256. Purchase option at lease end for $14,665. Take new retail delivery from dealer stock by 4/30/08. See participating dealer for qualifications.

I picked a random example. you picked two.
AVg condition is just that average condition and what can be expected. akso since money 4 years ago would habe had interest and be more money now it is a wash which you use, i have not done enough to know what the avg depretiation is nor do i care that much but i would believe anything from 40-80% in first 4 years.
Net agreement leasing a car is stupid 99.99% of the time. at the end of 5 years you hae paid almost the same amount and do not own the car.

lindylady said: I picked a random example. you picked two.
AVg condition is just that average condition and what can be expected. akso since money 4 years ago would habe had interest and be more money now it is a wash which you use, i have not done enough to know what the avg depretiation is nor do i care that much but i would believe anything from 40-80% in first 4 years.
Net agreement leasing a car is stupid 99.99% of the time. at the end of 5 years you hae paid almost the same amount and do not own the car.


Thanks for getting my back, Lindy.

Maybe 70% is a bit inflated; sure, if a FW'er is selling a 4 year old car they will probably get more like 50% of original value out of it, but if a FW'er is buying it, the 70% is probably more the case, but obviously anything can be argued.

time4wrk said: I wish I had seen this video before I purchased my car
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPor5b7JLLE
I do not spend a lot of money in a bar usually buy one drink and hang out with my friend for an hour then I leave he usually spends.

Your advice has been very helpful and has saved me from making a mistake.

How do I go about refianancing? Do I call up the company I am fianacing my car right now and ask them for a lower APR? I can do this with credit card companies as well correct?


Wow.....just wow.

If I was only unethical, I could make a mint in this world just by knowing FV=PV*(1+i)^n.......

PooDonkey said: lindylady said: 2008 ford mustang convertible $24,475
2004 ford mustang convertible avg condition $8,150
Source Edmunds.com for my zip
humm loss of 67% and that is without and major dings or repairs and only 60K miles. Also for a private party sale.Trade in value closer to 7K or over 70% down.
So 70% in 4 years seems believable for a non yugo to me

Your example is flawed. First off, you can't compare the price of a new car today to a car 4 years old. You have to compare the price the car was new in 2004 since that is the actual amount paid for the car. Secondly, how can you say "only" 60K miles when that is 12K more than average. The model that you picked is also near the high end of depreciation. The "average" condition takes off an additional $2K off and is not representative of the condition of most 4 year old cars.

Sure, you could devalue a car by driving excessive miles and treating your car like crap, but that has nothing to do regular driving conditions for most people. His 70% figure is grossly inflated and is closer to 50% in the majority of situations.

Granted, you can find special cases where this isn't true but that isn't the case most of the time.


Not to mention that he took a vehicle that was in transition to a new generation. The current generation Mustangs were so coveted when they first came out due to their 'retro' look that the resale value on the previous generation plummeted. The vast majority of cars do not suffer 70% depreciation if driven the average miles per year and the vehicle was not part of any huge recalls or problems.

Skipping 1 Messages...
can anyone reccomend me going to prosper to look for a loan?

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/08_18/b4082000029137.htm?chan=top+news_top+news+index_top+story



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