Bought a Car on eBay. A year later found that it was totaled. Lessons learned

I am writing this is as information for some one who is buying a used car from a private party whom they don’t know…

History: I bought a Car in dec 06, for 10K $, the car was Honda 05 with 15K miles on it. Bought it on eBay. Checked the VIN with all possible available sources (car fax etc). Clean title.Everything good.
Paid the money with a check (have all the information about the seller even has old car number plate). Car is running smooth, put another 15K miles on it.

Cut to Feb 2008: Got hit by some one in parking lot. The driver’s insurance company asked me to drop the car at paint n Body Shop for estimate of damage.
Dropped the car. Next day I get a call from the insurance Guy say that whether my car title was totaled any time in Aug 05. I said no and showed him the car fax reports.

Apparently the car I bought was in a serious damage and was never reported to any one.
Insurance companies have an access to a different database which should him that my car was totaled in aug05 but was refused by the owner to be repaired.

So it looks like the person from whom I bought the car repaired it, and sold me. I saw the pictures of the body and they are not good. Even the 2 doors on my car were from a different car ( they have a different car number). But if you look at the car as a whole..it looks very good. Even the guy at the Body Shop was very suprrised. I bought the Car in NYC. These guyz are really Pro.

The estimates to fix that damage (from previous accident) are about 7500$.
The current damage (Feb 08) is being paid by the drivers insurance company.

Lessons learnt: A lot

Now what are my options here??

Pursue Carfax guarantee?

When it comes to used cars, assume every car has been wrecked until you get an up close and personal inspection, during the day (can't do this with lights, need it to be bright out) from someone who actually knows what to look for to determine if a car has been wrecked before. Do not buy a car sight-unseen unless it is a good deal even if the car has been wrecked and repaired.

ccieid10t said: Pursue Carfax guarantee?The Carfax Guarantee can be found here. From what I can see, it only applies if a vehicle's title at any point was issued to reflect a major problem (salvaged, rebuilt, odometer problem, etc...), which, according to the OP's description, does not appear to be the case. Hence, based on the OP's post, it doesn't sound like he can expect to collect anything from Carfax.

OP, was there a bill of sale or any other document evidencing the sale that was executed by the seller in connection with your purchase? If so, I would review it to see if it contains any representations regarding major accidents and the like (I always use bill of sales that do contain such representations, for instance).

CarFax

CARFAX Buyback Guarantee claims (each a “Claim”) may be submitted per, and are subject to, the following Terms and Conditions.

CARFAX agrees to pay to the holder of a CARFAX® Vehicle History Report (the "Report") making a Claim (the "Claimant") the Claimant’s purchase price of the vehicle to which the Report relates (the “Vehicle”) up to 10% over the Kelley Blue Book value (see terms 8 and 9 for details)- if:

The Report was provided by CARFAX on or after March 1, 2004.

The Report states that the Vehicle has a title history with no Branded Titles showing, but a Branded Title actually exists.
A "Branded Title" is a passenger motor vehicle ownership or registration document issued by any of the 50 states of the U.S. (or the District of Columbia) or a passenger motor vehicle registration document issued by any province of Canada which was issued with words or symbols signifying that the vehicle was: junked or salvaged; dismantled, rebuilt or reconstructed; flood damaged; fire damaged; hail damaged; bought back by its manufacturer ("Lemon Law" vehicle); odometer exceeds mechanical limits; odometer was not actual mileage; declared a total loss (Canada only); or which was issued with any other symbol or word signifying a similar Brand.

Specifically excluded from the definition of "Branded Title" for the purposes of this Guarantee are: titles originally issued without a Brand but later stamped with a Brand without being reissued; salvage titles issued due to theft; damage disclosure documents; Branded Titles issued in error and later corrected; and passenger motor vehicle registration documents issued by the province of Alberta.

The following additional terms and conditions apply to the Buyback Guarantee:

The Claimant must have registered for the Buyback Guarantee within ninety (90) days of purchasing the Vehicle. Registration may be made online at www.carfax.com. Registrations can also be made by mail by sending name, address, telephone number, email address, the VIN of the guaranteed Vehicle and the purchase price to: Consumer Affairs Department, CARFAX Buyback Guarantee, 5860 Trinity Parkway, Suite 600, Centreville, VA 20120, USA.

The Claimant must own the Vehicle at the time the Claim is made. If a Vehicle is subject to a lien, the Claimant must agree to contact the lienholder, obtain a payoff amount and grant CARFAX or its agents possession of the Vehicle if the Claim is approved. If the remaining balance of the Claimant's loan is more than the Claimant's purchase price for the vehicle, the Claimant must pay off the difference.

The Claimant must complete and submit to CARFAX an executed and notarized Affidavit Claim Form and provide a complete copy of the Report. The Report must have been run prior to the date the Vehicle was purchased by the Claimant.
The Claimant must provide proof of ownership of the Vehicle in the form of the original bill of sale and (a) a current title issued to the Claimant by the motor vehicle agency of one of the 50 states of the U. S. or the District of Columbia or (b) a current registration issued to the Claimant from any of the Canadian provinces.
The Claimant must provide a copy of the front and back of the Branded Title, or an acceptable alternative, certified by the issuing state/province authority. This document must have been issued at least 60 days prior to the date the Report was run.

If, prior to purchasing the Vehicle, the Claimant knew, or should have known, of the existence of a Branded Title for the Vehicle, CARFAX reserves the right to reject the Claim.
The Branded Title must have been issued by a motor vehicle agency from which CARFAX receives and loads data about Branded Titles in regular monthly transmissions.
CARFAX will pay a maximum of the purchase price of the Vehicle excluding warranties, insurance and other additional purchases. This exclusion covers all aftermarket accessories, parts and services purchased, including those made at the time of the Vehicle’s purchase.

If the purchase price of the Vehicle defined in term 8 exceeds the retail Kelley Blue Book used vehicle value at the time of the sale, CARFAX will pay no more than ten percent (10%) over the Kelley Blue Book used vehicle retail value at the time of purchase.

CARFAX will accept only one Claim per Vehicle Identification Number under the Buyback Guarantee, or any other CARFAX certification or guarantee program.
Each household may submit only one Claim per calendar year.

The Buyback Guarantee will apply only if the Vehicle is an automobile or light truck and was manufactured in model year 1981 or later.
The Buyback Guarantee will expire one (1) year after the date of the first Report run by or for the Claimant or Claimant’s transferor relating to the vehicle.

Employees of CARFAX and its affiliated companies, and members of their families, are not eligible.

CARFAX may, at any time and without prior notice, change the terms of the Buyback Guarantee, or discontinue the Buyback Guarantee.

The Buyback Guarantee will be governed by the laws of, and Claimant consents to the exclusive jurisdiction of the courts of, the Commonwealth of Virginia, United States of America.

Revised 11/21/2006

louieeG said: $10k for a 1 year old honda with 15k miles? That's a steal even for a salvaged title.

I agree. Price seems to good to be true, i.e., there is a hidden issue.

How would a CarFax guarantee help? Suppose CarFax are willing to work with you. They will buy back the vehicle from you at the price you paid, which was at a steep discount to market value of a similar, non-junked car.

azygous said: The estimates to fix that damage (from previous accident) are about 7500$.

What is the damage from previous accident?
You've had it awhile now, did you notice anything odd?
Definitely have another place give you an estimate on previous damage.

Ohh yea one more thing please share the eBay guys ID for sure.

Shahhere

Carfax is a joke at best and fraudulent at worst. This is a perfect case. If the report is free, it's worth slightly less than what you paid.

If you talk to people who have had wrecks that were repaired, there is only a 50% report rate, In my experience, for carfax. That said, buying a used car is always a crap shoot. Before carfax, at least you knew you didn't know the history of the car.

On a side note, I'd be curious how much CARFAX pays each shop/agency/dealer to report damage. You know that a dealer isn't going to waste any manpower entering collision details and routine service if they aren't getting something from the deal. Information from any auto insiders would be greatly appreciated.

jason243 said: azygous said: The estimates to fix that damage (from previous accident) are about 7500$.

What is the damage from previous accident?
You've had it awhile now, did you notice anything odd?
Definitely have another place give you an estimate on previous damage.

What is the damage from previous accident?
OP: From what I spoke to the paint and Body Shop guy, the car was severly hit from behind. So that the trunk got beated up very badly. So they repaired the back part and replaced the two doors on drivers side by some one cars..( u can see the VIN number of other car on these doors..)

You've had it awhile now, did you notice anything odd?
OP: nothing atall. i have also got it inspected from a mechanic before I biught it. Nothing Nada.

Definitely have another place give you an estimate on previous damage.
I will do that, but my question is what can I do about the previous purchase..can i take him to court?, small claims..?

Let's back up!! Which Honda model did OP buy?

NY153 said: who wants to drive the same honda for 10+ years???

Probably the same type of person who cuts coupons, shops around for the best savings rates, invests and saves and lives below their means... like a lot of people here.

azygous said: tmag01 said: Maybe next time you should have a mechanic look at it before you buy it.
OP: I did and even he count notice it. If I show you the pictures of my car, you wount beleive it. Infact, in the morning when I went to pick up my car from the paint and Body Shop, the guys there had called thier friends from other shops to see the beauty of work on my car. No kiddin

Why in the world do people buy cars on eBay?
To learn a lessons for others to not to buy it. what should I say..

Wow that sucks. There was no mention of an inspection in the OP so I assumed. Tough luck.

Yep, agree with this. My first car was a new 1997 camry bought in Dec 1997, drove it till March 2007, close to 10 yrs, 145K miles, no issues, oil / brakes / tires. Eventually we got bored of it, it got old to drive the same reliable car and so we sold it off via CL for 5K which was more than any dealer was offering and higher than the fair market value for a vehicle in that state.

Next, we got a 2007 GS 350 AWD from out of state, unfortunately it got totalled due to a bad rear end collision, but we got $500 more from the insurance company vs what we paid for it at the dealer, since in WA they have to consider fair market value by calling up bunch of dealers in the city and they all quoted higher than what I had paid for it new, go figure.
berlinsmommy said: I know that this is highly unpopular here on FatWallet, but reading all of this info about totalled cars finding their way back into the market, airbag fraud, cars flooded in Katrina, etc. it just reinforces the way DH and I buy cars, which is to buy brand new, after next years models are out, negotiate price as much as possible, get exactly what we want, and keep it a LOOOOOOOOOONG time so that depreciation is irrelevent, you drive it until it is worth nothing. By then, usually car prices have gone up enough to make it an even better value, such as my brand new 1992 Honda Civic that I paid $8,333 OTD for in October of '92. Drove it until 2002, it had 250k + miles, cost almost nothing to maintain, insure, or fill w/ gas. By 2002 when I got rid of it, the fact that I could have bought used for $6k was irrelevant, I felt I got the best use of my money buying new.

someone said about insurance companies that they have different databases, Can i call them and ask to check the VIN #?
anyone did it?

azygous said: jacekrsx said: someone said about insurance companies that they have different databases, Can i call them and ask to check the VIN #?
anyone did it?

from what i am learning it is called a clue report..correct me if I am wrongYes, CLUE: Comprehensive Loss Underwriting Exchange report, which is maintained by Choicepoint (http://www.choicetrust.com/servlet/com.kx.cs.servlets.CsServlet?usertype=c)

azygous said: Now what are my options here??
Sell it ASAP since somebody else is paying you to repair it now.
The title is still "clean", right?

Just crank up the radio or keep chatting if there's wind noise: speaking from experience here.

tizzo said: Note: If you have not filed a claim against your auto or property insurance policy in the last 7 years, you will likely receive a clear report.Correct, if they do not have any information to report on you, you'll just receive a clear report. Why did you put it in bold?

First, ASK if the car has had any body damaage.
Seller may not be honest, but it never hurts to ask.

Second, if you're not qualified to notice repaint / body damage, which is going to require you crawling all over that thing - pay someone else to do it.

Carfax is *worthless* in many states in regard to damage. It's not worthless in regard to title skip-trace and possible "washing" of a title, but in terms of damage - here in TX, it's WRONG way more than it is right.

CLUE reports, well, they're for damage that's run through a claim system. Again, they don't count private party fixes.

It's entirely possible for me to cut a car in half, literally, sew another car back in, and never have carfax or clue know anything about it....

Ask, inspect, clue, carfax.

Carfax has great marketing that owners and dealers take advantage of.. It's mostly spin.

DeGlass said: azygous said: Now what are my options here??
Sell it ASAP since somebody else is paying you to repair it now.
The title is still "clean", right?

Just crank up the radio or keep chatting if there's wind noise: speaking from experience here.

I am not going to sell it.I dont want anyone to have that problem..beleive me i can easily sell this this thing for regular buyer.
Yes the title is still clean.
there is no noise or any problem yet...

beethovengirl said: geo123 said: beethovengirl said: I just checked kbb.com, and the private party value of a 2007 Toyota Corolla with 10K miles in excellent condition is $2K less than a new 2009 Corolla. That's a savings of 12% off new, not including the cost of inspection, a "useless" CarFax report, the hassle, the worry about whether or not the car was in a wreck, etc.There are obviously a lot of variables out there and it often makes a lot more sense to buy certain cars used than it does others. For instance, a number of states do not charge sales tax on private party auto purchases, which can obviously save you a bundle.
I live in IL, and when I moved here, IL claimed it could have collected sales tax on a private party sale in another state had I bought the car in the past year. Fortunately, I had bought it 3 years prior, but I would have protested had I been forced to pay MA sales tax [which I had] and IL sales tax on one sale.

Texas does this all the time, and 3 years won't protect you from it either. If you move a vehicle to Texas the sales tax on the vehicles value is determined -- then offset by any taxes you paid already to other jurisdictions. Virginia charges 3% sales tax, while Texas charges 6% -- so when you import a VA vehicle to Texas they will get you for the difference based on the vehicles current value. They only offset for SALES tax, not property tax so the 3% annual property tax that is ALSO due in VA for the vehicle doesn't count.

So I paid 3% on a vehicle, then another 3% (this is complicated, since state pays part of this and it ended up being about %1.5) to register it in VA. Each year VA may or may not renew the property tax relief)

Texas renewal is cheap after that, they don't tax you again.

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