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bpydimer said: Tax on used car is double taxation and is completely unfair.

OK, it's not very fun, but how is it "double taxation" or "completely unfair?" Everyone has to pay sales tax. That is fair. Cheating on your taxes while I pay mine, this is unfair.

bpydimer said: Some argue that taxation is illegal by constitution, let alone double taxation.

Most of these people are in jail. The courts have consistently rejected these arguments.

In Maryland if the car is more than 7 years old then all you need is a notarized bill of sale saying that you bought it for $500 and you only pay taxes on $500!

thok said: bpydimer said: Tax on used car is double taxation and is completely unfair.

OK, it's not very fun, but how is it "double taxation" or "completely unfair?" Everyone has to pay sales tax. That is fair. Cheating on your taxes while I pay mine, this is unfair.


It's double taxation because a private party to private party sale should not involve the government in any way. The car was already taxed when bought at the front-end; that tax should not be repeated every time the car is transferred.

DiMAn0684 said: mrPete said: When you buy from a private party, you should always get a bill of sale showing the selling price. Ask the seller to write a lower price on the bill of sale. It doesn't really affect them, but could save you $$$ on the taxes.

Don't know about CA, but MA takes 5% tax based on a book value of the vehicle and not what the buyer paid for it. Otherwise, everyone would be getting cars for $1
Yup - in every state I've lived in, they pull out the blue book to determine the assessed value for taxes. They could care less what you claim to have paid for it.

Freno911 said: thok said: bpydimer said: Tax on used car is double taxation and is completely unfair.

OK, it's not very fun, but how is it "double taxation" or "completely unfair?" Everyone has to pay sales tax. That is fair. Cheating on your taxes while I pay mine, this is unfair.


It's double taxation because a private party to private party sale should not involve the government in any way. The car was already taxed when bought at the front-end; that tax should not be repeated every time the car is transferred.
Why not?

mrPete said: revheck said: FW doesn't advise how to commit fraud.

Who is OP defrauding, the government? Please. They already take enough of my money the way it is.
Is that the tax fraud equivalent of "You're honor, she was just begging me to rape her"?

bpydimer said: Tax on used car is double taxation and is completely unfair. Some argue that taxation is illegal by constitution, let alone double taxation.
I recently sold my used car to Wesley Snipes. I'm not sure if he registered it accurately with the DMV.

OK. Give me red too !
Agree with bpydimer.
If you know the person you are buying from or he is willing to help you for any reason (or you pay him a little extra) you can just visit the office together and explain that you are relatives or something and car is given to you as a gift, no money involved, and asked them what's the cheapest way to transfer the title.

Not sure about CA, but in my area it would cost something under $50.

BTW. Since it is not above 10K (or you can say it's little under), this gift should not be taxable either.
Just make sure not to abuse this method. If they notice you giving cars away or taking them for free on regular bases, they may start asking questions ...

To justify this cheating, I can start talking about double taxation and that the person who sold it does not get any portion of the original sales tax back, etc, etc. But, I won't. I just don't care !

Put the car on a boat, sail out to international waters, make the transaction out there with a bunch of witnesses. You're in California - easy access to the pacific.

I think you'll have to keep your car out of California for a year... Just get it registered in arizona or something.

Seems like great lengths to avoid sales tax.

Freno911 said: It's double taxation because a private party to private party sale should not involve the government in any way. The car was already taxed when bought at the front-end; that tax should not be repeated every time the car is transferred.

You can come up with any argument you want to fool yourself into thinking this behavior is legitimate, but ANY TIME money changes hands, there is a potentially taxable event.

It doesn't matter that the car is new or used. You are buying it, therefore there is a sale. Therefore there are sales taxes. You're a private party but guess what, so is a new car dealer. The state is involved in transactions between "private parties" all the time. What to "give" your friend $25,000 because you're just a nice guy? Pay the gift tax.

People get upset about sales tax on cars because the state actually has a mechanism to collect the tax that's due: the DMV. You can't drive to Delaware and buy a car tax-free like you can with a TV because you still have to register it when you get back.

That doesn't change the fact that you owe the tax. Pay your taxes, deadbeat.

Freno911 said: It's double taxation because a private party to private party sale should not involve the government in any way.So you don't think there should be any sales/consumption tax at all? Or is WalMart not a "private party" in your world?

mrPete said: Who is OP defrauding, the government? Please.When you defraud a government that is by, of, and for the people, who are you defrauding again?

UAIron said: Put the car on a boat, sail out to international waters, make the transaction out there with a bunch of witnesses. You're in California - easy access to the pacific.

I think you'll have to keep your car out of California for a year... Just get it registered in arizona or something.

Seems like great lengths to avoid sales tax.
Better yet, buy the car, and just never register it so you don't have to pay taxes. Of course, you'll only be able to drive it on private roads or you'll get a ticket and your car will be impounded, but you'll sure be stickin' it to the man!

Just think about all the money you are saving in taxes while you drive your car up and down your driveway.

cheezedawg said:

Freno911 said

It's double taxation because a private party to private party sale should not involve the government in any way.

So you don't think there should be any sales/consumption tax at all? Or is WalMart not a "private party" in your world?


WalMart does not pay sales tax on the wholesale prices when purchasing items from manufactures (or whatever distributors involved).

bgur said: OK. Give me red too !
Agree with bpydimer.
If you know the person you are buying from or he is willing to help you for any reason (or you pay him a little extra) you can just visit the office together and explain that you are relatives or something and car is given to you as a gift, no money involved, and asked them what's the cheapest way to transfer the title.

Not sure about CA, but in my area it would cost something under $50.

BTW. Since it is not above 10K (or you can say it's little under), this gift should not be taxable either.
Just make sure not to abuse this method. If they notice you giving cars away or taking them for free on regular bases, they may start asking questions ...

To justify this cheating, I can start talking about double taxation and that the person who sold it does not get any portion of the original sales tax back, etc, etc. But, I won't. I just don't care !
Let me sum up this brilliant idea: Go to the DMV and lie to a public official for the express purpose of fraudulently avoiding a legitimate tax that you owe. But don't "abuse" this because they might not like it and will start asking questions. What kind of questions would you be afraid of? Maybe "Sir, how do you plead in the offense of tax evasion"?

bgur said:
Freno911 said

It's double taxation because a private party to private party sale should not involve the government in any way.

So you don't think there should be any sales/consumption tax at all? Or is WalMart not a "private party" in your world?


WalMart does not pay sales tax on the wholesale prices when purchasing items from manufactures (or whatever distributors involved).
Unless they use the merchandise themselves, kinda like the seller did before he decided to sell his car.

As someone mentioned earlier, most states have a blue book calculator that they use to determine FMV..

workindev:

Let me sum up this brilliant idea: Go to the DMV and lie to a public official for the express purpose of fraudulently avoiding a legitimate tax that you owe. But don't "abuse" this because they might not like it and will start asking questions. What kind of questions would you be afraid of? Maybe "Sir, how do you plead in the offense of tax evasion"?


Let me sum up too:
Is this illegal ? YES. And it does not matter if you lie in person or on paper.
Is the risk involved ? YES. High or low depending on the situation, what kind of person, etc. etc.
If OP is willing to take this risk for $800 - that's his chose.
Do I personally care, have any moral objections or feel upset about him doing that ? NO !

Let me sum up too:
Is this illegal: YES. And it does not matter if you lie in person or on paper.
Is the risk involved: YES. High or low depending on the situation, what kind of person, etc. etc.
If OP is willing to take this risk for $800 - that's his chose.
Do I personally care, have any moral objections or feel upset about him doing that ? NO !


That's fine but OP isn't asking whether you care. OP is asking for advice in a public forum on "how to". If s/he want to cheat and save $800 and probably get away with it? Fine.. just don't come asking for advice to do something that is illegal. The debate on whether it's right that one have to pay tax on a used car purchase can be debated and that's a separate issue.

revheck said: sunrisetk said: I am thinking of purchasing a car through private owner and its about 10,000. At DMV registration to take title ownership, I will get taxed around $800 (CA = 8%). Is there any way to avoid or reduce this amount? How low can I report the actual payment amount to the DMV without looking suspicious? Do any of you guys have a "workaround" for this? Can I record this transaction as "gift"?

FW doesn't advise how to commit fraud.


however, when it comes to grey areas that are still unethical and technically "legal", FW has no problem with advising. OP simply needs to revise his question

Did I miss something here? I purchased my car, 2004 Maxima, in 2005 from a private seller for $25K in the state of Georgia. I registered the car with the DMV and was never required to pay taxes on the purchase price. I researched this before buying the car and the only time I thought that you could be taxed on the purchase by the state is if the seller had the car registered in the name of a business or the car was used for commercial use.

BobbyCreekwater said: Did I miss something here? I purchased my car, 2004 Maxima, in 2005 from a private seller for $25K in the state of Georgia. I registered the car with the DMV and was never required to pay taxes on the purchase price. I researched this before buying the car and the only time I thought that you could be taxed on the purchase by the state is if the seller had the car registered in the name of a business or the car was used for commercial use.Quick Google search came up with this:

How much will it cost me to register my vehicle in Georgia?

and

Casual Sale Law

It looks like there is no sales tax on a car if it is a casual sale - which it looks like a private party sale qualifies. But if you buy your car from a dealer, or for a business, you have to pay sales tax.

codename47 said: Sure, form a corporation or trust, put the car in the entity, and buy the entity.

Doesn't a corporation in a state with sales tax pay sales tax on cars?

BobbyCreekwater said: Did I miss something here? I purchased my car, 2004 Maxima, in 2005 from a private seller for $25K in the state of Georgia. I registered the car with the DMV and was never required to pay taxes on the purchase price. I researched this before buying the car and the only time I thought that you could be taxed on the purchase by the state is if the seller had the car registered in the name of a business or the car was used for commercial use.

Why stop generalizing Georgia law to all states. WTH, There is no sales tax for private car sales in the world...

cheezedawg said: Freno911 said: It's double taxation because a private party to private party sale should not involve the government in any way.So you don't think there should be any sales/consumption tax at all? Or is WalMart not a "private party" in your world?

Easy there, Kimbo Slice. This was addressed in a later post, which I will concede: WalMart buys at wholesale, you pay sales tax at POS. WalMart doesn't buy for consumption then sell, they just resale. A car bought for consumption then resold, I can see how a re-tax could apply to it.

WalMart is a private party, I'm talking about an end-user. Big difference in my mind, sorry if it's not clear to you.

Paying taxes and agreeing with them are two different things; be careful not to confuse the two. I very strictly follow the letter of the law, but I don't have to agree with the laws. That's the wonderful thing about opinions

Doesn't a corporation in a state with sales tax pay sales tax on cars?
Yes, if they buy them after the fact, but if you buy a car, and the seller already paid sales tax on it, assuming private party, it shouldn't cost anything for them to register the car in the entity's name, then you just buy the entity.

change your address to an area with no local tax

Why the argument? The answer is easy - you can't avoid tax unless you're willing to lie about the sale price, which is illegal.

You may be able to reduce the tax if you can register in another state. I live near DC and there are people here who somehow seem to live in all three states (MD, VA, DC) for legal purposes - i.e. its cheaper to register my car in MD so I'll do it there. But technically that's also illegal and you could get fined if a cop pulls you over and wants to know where you live and why you haven't registered the car there. Of course you could lie to the cop, but that's also illegal.

So basically you pay the tax, or you do something illegal to reduce or avoid it and take your chances.

could you buy the car using your out-of-state relative's info and then have them gift it to you? Would they need to register it in their state before they could gift it to you?

Just because it's considered fraud by the eyes of the fraudsters doesn't make it wrong...double dipping is double dipping, no matter what way you look at it.

But technically that's also illegal and you could get fined if a cop pulls you over and wants to know where you live and why you haven't registered the car there. Of course you could lie to the cop, but that's also illegal.

A cop that pulls me over asking where I live is going to get his feelings hurt. You are under no obligation to answer his questions and would be a fool to do anything but hand over your license and registration and answer any question by saying "I want a lawyer"

Why lie or answer questions you don't want to when you can just refuse to answer them in the first place.

codename47 said: But technically that's also illegal and you could get fined if a cop pulls you over and wants to know where you live and why you haven't registered the car there. Of course you could lie to the cop, but that's also illegal.

A cop that pulls me over asking where I live is going to get his feelings hurt. You are under no obligation to answer his questions and would be a fool to do anything but hand over your license and registration and answer any question by saying "I want a lawyer"

Why lie or answer questions you don't want to when you can just refuse to answer them in the first place.


You're going to get your feelings hurt when you don't cooperate with law enforcement. Cooperation with law enforcement is a condition of getting a driver's license.

You're going to get your feelings hurt when you don't cooperate with law enforcement. Cooperation with law enforcement is a condition of getting a driver's license.

No, cooperation with law enforcement is not a condition of getting a driver's license. Produce a law to back up that absurd assertion, please.

And how exactly are my feelings going to get hurt? I am under no obligation to cooperate with law enforcement in that situation other than to produce my license and registration. What are they going to do? Arrest me for exercising my constitutional right to remaining silent? I wish I could be so lucky.

You would be a complete FOOL to ever talk to the police, and here is a lawyer saying why.

never talk to the cops

codename47 said: ...... What are they going to do? Arrest me for exercising my constitutional right to remaining silent? I wish I could be so lucky. .......


You mean like this guy????


edit: Just for the record, I completely respect that guy for standing up for his rights, but it's a shame to see people get steamrolled like that. Welcome to 1984.

Welcome to 1984.
Man, PLEASE! I wish! BTW, we'd be welcoming 1983, not 1984.

codename47 said:
.......
You would be a complete FOOL to ever talk to the police, and here is a lawyer saying why.

never talk to the cops


That link is awesome. I particulary like the part where the cop clarifies that they are allowed to lie during their interrogations.

bump...I'm curious too

bpydimer said: ok, GIVE ME RED!! but I agree with lowering the purchase price on the bill of sale. Tax on used car is double taxation and is completely unfair. Some argue that taxation is illegal by constitution, let alone double taxation.

IMO, this is best done when buying from a relative. I purchased a car from my aunt years back and marked it as "GIFT" on the DMV form...


It is not double-taxation.

This is a registration tax, required of all vehicles registered in a particular state.

argh

sunrisetk said: I am thinking of purchasing a car through private owner and its about 10,000. At DMV registration to take title ownership, I will get taxed around $800 (CA = 8%). Is there any way to avoid or reduce this amount? How low can I report the actual payment amount to the DMV without looking suspicious? Do any of you guys have a "workaround" for this? Can I record this transaction as "gift"?

this is what this thread is about...if he wanted to know the legalities and the ethical issues involved, the OP would have asked; It's very clear that the few posts made in this thread show a strong belief that it's double taxation while the others strongly believe it's not...let's keep the debates over these issues in another thread.

in CA it's call SALE and USE TAX. mean if you buy it to use in CA, you have to pay tax for it. If you buy thing from Amazon, at the end of the year, you suppose to report how much you purchase items tax free and pay tax on that amount.



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