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Hello,

Today I received a letter from chase, and it says my Freedom Visa card will be upgraded to Visa Signature card by July 2. It also says my account will have a credit access line instead of a credit limit and will have no pre-set spending limit. Does no pre-set spending affect(lower) credit score. I remember last year, Citi tried to do the same thing(upgraded master card to World Master card), and many folks in this forum called city to deny the conversion due to the concern of credit score.

Any idea?

Thanks.

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Thanks for the details. I have heard many stories like this, but I have also heard others who have said that when using... (more)

SuperG03 (Mar. 15, 2009 @ 6:09p) |

So apparently I missed the opt-out date. Instead I just had them reallocate my credit limit over to another Chase card. ... (more)

bkcarp (May. 27, 2009 @ 10:03p) |

Thanks for the reminder on this, bkcarp. Even though it's now beyond the date that I was supposedly converted (May 29th... (more)

hream (Jun. 02, 2009 @ 5:47p) |

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I got one too. As long as they don't take away the rewards which I confirmed they won't I don't really care.

I received the same letter. The concern stems from the cc company no longer advertising your credit limit, effectively lowering your credit score if you use the credit utilized divided by credit available formula.

UPDATE: Very easy to opt-out. Call 800-524-3880 and tell them you don't want to be 'upgraded'.

my fiance got one, would it be better to not upgrade, then to 'upgrade'.

I was told there was no way to "opt-out".

I always wonder why everyone makes such a big deal about his..All i have are two Visa Signature Cards (no other credit cards) a Chase Rewards Plus Visa Signature and a Chase Freedom Visa Signature, and i never have any
problems getting credit or new credit card offerings for that matter....regardless of the fact the the line isn't reported....I think people who pull credit reports these days are intelligent enough to realize that you
have a Visa Signature or World Master Card with No Preset Limit......

In fact, when i got my Schwab Checking Account a few months ago, i was offered an instant, pre-approved $12,000 overdraft (credit) line......

So, why do so many freak out about this???

I just spoke with CC company. Assured that the Rewards program stays intact. I asked to opt out initially I was told "they didn't think that was possible" but after a hold was told that opting out is possible. I'm secondary on the card so my other half needs to do the actual opting out. Not sure how it is reported to credit agencies but an upgrade would seem to be a good thing - right? I was assured it still would have a number attached to the limit so how exactly does it appear on a credit report?

craig10x said: I always wonder why everyone makes such a big deal about his..All i have are two Visa Signature Cards (no other credit cards) a Chase Rewards Plus Visa Signature and a Chase Freedom Visa Signature, and i never have any
problems getting credit or new credit card offerings for that matter....regardless of the fact the the line isn't reported....I think people who pull credit reports these days are intelligent enough to realize that you
have a Visa Signature or World Master Card with No Preset Limit......

In fact, when i got my Schwab Checking Account a few months ago, i was offered an instant, pre-approved $12,000 overdraft (credit) line......

So, why do so many freak out about this???


because we all know of cases, where if you time it wrong, for a month it will report you as using 100% of your credit line. (where the balance and limit are listed as one and the same).

Unless that problem was fixed

It seems I should opt-out.

adodotnet said: It seems I should opt-out.

Up to you....but as i said..all i have are signature cards, and they haven't caused any problems for me....lots of people have these cards...if they were so bad, no one would have them (lol)....

Anyway, as i recall, credit reports would show the highest balance you spent on the card...and then there is a seperate box for your actual credit limit, where in this case it is left blank....so, the person reviewing your credit
wouldn't know exactly what your credit line is...it could be $75,000 for all he knows....so i don't see how that would show that you had 100% usage of your credit line.......

Also, when that space is blank...it is obvious that it must be either a Visa Signature or a World Master Card with No Preset Spending Limits......

And in order to qualify for a Visa Signature or World Mastercard, you have to have a good credit history...otherwise you wouldn't get a card with No Preset Limits, where you can spend way beyond your actual
credit line without getting permission from your credit card issuer...it's actually considered to be a bit of a "prestige" card to have (as compared to a regular or even platinum card)........

And by the way, if you e-mail Chase, you can request they report it to the bureaus...and Equifax and Experian will list your credit line, but TransUnion will not for some unknown reason......but it seems Equifax is often where reports are pulled from, anyway.....

I STILL think it isn't that big a deal....but do what you feel most comfortable with....

you get a bunch more benefitswith visa signature.

i think its fine...

hellyea81 said: you get a bunch more benefitswith visa signature.

i think its fine...

Yep...that is VERY TRUE.....and that is because it is considered to be a higher "prestige" card then a platinum

adodotnet...you can turn it down if you wish...but it's kind of like turning down an invitation to join the "country club" (lol).....

Well there is still a (soft) credit limit in the sense that you don't have the high overage fees associated with going your credit limit. There is still a limit (which is used for reporting purposes?) from which the sliding scale is based off. They have the right to deny transactions above the limit which they feel is too risky, however, you don't get saddled with high overage charges. Also confirmed the chase rewards plus benefits stays on the current chase rewards plus card. Just the nature of the line is changing.

Posted this a couple days ago in the Chase thread, Not sure what I'll do? Don't need the increased benefits and don't want to lose my $72,500 reported line. Will probably see if I can opt out


scott1961 said: Just got a letter on my Chase Rewards Plus MasterCard, thought at first it was going to be about ending the 5% but was not. Says my card will be upgraded to include "World MasterCard benefits" whatever that is? Says I will be issued a new card but same number. Also states new benefit is "Your account will have a credit access line instead of a credit limit and will have no pre-set spending limit" Not sure I like that because I thought those types do not report credit limit and I have $72,500 CL on this card. Anybody else get this letter?

scott1961 said: Posted this a couple days ago in the Chase thread, Not sure what I'll do? Don't need the increased benefits and don't want to lose my $72,500 reported line. Will probably see if I can opt out


scott1961 said: Just got a letter on my Chase Rewards Plus MasterCard, thought at first it was going to be about ending the 5% but was not. Says my card will be upgraded to include "World MasterCard benefits" whatever that is? Says I will be issued a new card but same number. Also states new benefit is "Your account will have a credit access line instead of a credit limit and will have no pre-set spending limit" Not sure I like that because I thought those types do not report credit limit and I have $72,500 CL on this card. Anybody else get this letter?


Yes, but if you e-mail Chase and request that the Credit Line be reported to the bureaus, they will do so, and only Transunion will not comply with the request, but Equifax and Experian will......In my experience, most credit pulls have been through
Equifax....

Also, if you opt out, you may lose your 5% rewards...it may be a good opportunity to "lock them in".......

*

adodotnet said: It seems I should opt-out.
Yup! Why take a chance with credit score?

sushi1111 said: I received the same letter. The concern stems from the cc company no longer advertising your credit limit, effectively lowering your credit score if you use the credit utilized divided by credit available formula.

UPDATE: Very easy to opt-out. Call 800-524-3880 and tell them you don't want to be 'upgraded'.

Worked for me too. The rep said she has put a note on my account.

Additionally, I have sent an email as well. No reply to that yet.

craig10x said:
And by the way, if you e-mail Chase, you can request they report it to the bureaus...and Equifax and Experian will list your credit line, but TransUnion will not for some unknown reason......but it seems Equifax is often where reports are pulled from, anyway.....



just wondering what would you ask them to report since there is no limit ? Can you request a arbitrary number or do they have their own criteria for reporting a particular limit.
also usually the CSRs are either low wage workers who have no idea what credit score means or are outsourced. Would they know what I am asking if I just send them email using their internal email ?

MeraNamJoker said: craig10x said:
And by the way, if you e-mail Chase, you can request they report it to the bureaus...and Equifax and Experian will list your credit line, but TransUnion will not for some unknown reason......but it seems Equifax is often where reports are pulled from, anyway.....



just wondering what would you ask them to report since there is no limit ? Can you request a arbitrary number or do they have their own criteria for reporting a particular limit.
also usually the CSRs are either low wage workers who have no idea what credit score means or are outsourced. Would they know what I am asking if I just send them email using their internal email ?


well, actually, you do have an actual credit line... (in fact you have to have a good credit history and be eligible for a minimum "actual credit line" of $5,000 to qualify for these cards) it's just that you are allowed to go beyond it without calling up for special permission, as you would have to do with other types of cards....So, i found the best way to do it, is
instead of calling up a possible clueless csr who will probably have to put you on hold while they try to find out about it, i found the best way was to e-mail them, and they did take care of it for me....

What you would do is request they report your actual credit line of your signature or world card to the three major credit bureaus (Equifax, Experian and Transunion)......

the result of this is i found that Equifax and Experian did start to include it, and only Transunion would not (don't know why that is).....

but i should point out that i had the signature cards for about TWO YEARS before i ever did this (wasn't even aware of it until i read all the "sky is falling" reports here on fw of how "terrible" it was to have a signature or world card, "ruins" your credit score and all that silly stuff) and in those two years i had tons of pre-approved credit card offers, had no problems getting credit cards or credit lines, and wondered what all this fuss is all about.....

so, you may ask, if it wasn't a problem, why did i bother notifying Chase? Only pure curiousity to see what would happen if i did..and that was the results of it....

hope that helps

thanks.. i emailed them and they replied that they will report 'access line'. hopefully they will follow up.

MeraNamJoker said: thanks.. i emailed them and they replied that they will report 'access line'. hopefully they will follow up.

You're welcome Glad to be of help......It should take about a month to get changed with the bureaus.......I'm glad to see that some here have a more sensible attitude about this......

The above suggestion did not work for me. I emailed chase, and here is the reply I got back. It appears they are not able to report a credit line, because one doesn't not exist.

Chase said: Thank you for your recent request regarding your credit bureau report. It is important to us that we promptly respond to your concerns. We have completed our research for your request and, as a result of our investigation, we have confirmed that the upgrade from VISA Platinum to VISA Signature will include a change from a credit limit to a credit access line on account ending XX. An account with a credit access line is considered a No Preset Spending Limit account (NPSL). A NPSL account is reported to the credit bureaus with no credit limit. As a result, the account appears as an open line of credit as contrasted to a revolving credit card. A NPSL account allows spending over the credit access line without being charged an over-limit fee. The amount allowed over this line is reviewed regularly and is based on credit information, account history, and personal spending patterns. Since some credit bureaus may choose to report a credit limit or no credit limit, it may appear that you are exceeding your credit access line. That is why it is important to keep a copy of this email so that any potential creditors can be made aware that this is a NPSL account. We have confirmed with the credit bureaus that this account is currently reporting a credit limit of $XXXX. However, this may change after the upgrade. If you would rather have an account that reports the credit limit, you may request to Opt out of this upgrade. All benefits associated with the upgrade will not apply when opting out. Opt out requests must be received by 6/17/2008. Please follow the Opt out instructions included in your notification letter. If you have any further questions, please reply using the Secure Message Center.

Well, they did do it for me about 6 months ago when i e-mailed them, and it is being reported in my case (by Equifax and Experian, but not on Transunion)....unless Chase changed their policy....which i suppose may have happened...
Though that will likely get knocked out now because one of my cards was "compromised" recently and they had to cancel and re-issue a new card with a different account number and i lost my other card, so ditto for that one...

Frankly, i don't care and i won't bother contacting Chase to attempt to get it changed again (both are signature cards) because i found in the two years i had the cards (prior to the change) it had no effect on my credit at all, as supposedly many
here on fw have claimed that it does, so it wouldn't bother me in the least.....during that period of two years (before it was being reported)...i got pre-approved credit card offers by the carloads, and got credit lines, bank overdraft credit lines, etc...for
very large amounts so to me that proves that it DOES NOT affected your credit at all....

But if you feel uncomfortable about it, like the various "worry warts" here (lol) then by all means, downgrade (and it IS a downgrade) your card(s).....

I love having the extra benefits, prestige, etc of the signature card (as MANY PEOPLE DO)....and having these cards simply indicates to credit report pullers that you have an excellent credit history because you can't get these cards
if you do not.....I don't worry about scores and other bs...as long as i can get whatever credit i want, when i want...that's all that matters and that's the bottom line...

I guess I don't really care about prestige and I don't see myself ever using any of the benefits. I have awesome credit anyways, and if it ain't broke, don't fix it right? Which of these "benefits" have you actually used - I'm not challenging you, I'm curious.

Free movie passes to previews of new movies coming out, preferred seats for broadway shows (here in NYC where i live), among other things.....you also get ALL Visa Card benefits on the card...more then you get at the platinum level
(see the Visa website)....it is the top of the line Visa Card and lots of people with good credit ratings, have them......

But even if you don't need/require the extra benefits, i still see no harm in it as others here seem to....as i mentioned, never caused me any problems...i think many fw'ers tend to "worry" too much about these things

I see no reason that i should demote myself back to the platinum again..if it WAS causing problems for me, i'd switch in a "heartbeat" but as i said...i find that it has a "zero effect"...so no need to change...

so they just send you tickets in the mail or do you have to check the website for offers?

Other than that, the warranty protection sounds like it might be useful. Thanks for the feedback. I'll think about it.

You're Welcome

I will occassionally get an e-mail from Chase, which tells about the movie preview, where it will be, and includes two free tickets and popcorn as well (lol)...there is a phone number to call to reserve,
if you would like to go......and other e-mails about special shows and attractions (not free but usually better seating, etc...) makes you feel a little "special" since cards of lower grades don't get these offerings......
There's also a personal service you can call to get help with various types of reservations, help when you run into problems while travelling.....etc.....You get higher travel insurance coverage, better lost luggage
coverage, etc.....On the Visa site, just bring up the Signature Card benefits and it outlines them pretty well....


I figure....since it apparently doesn't cause credit problems, and they offer some extra perks..then heck..why not????

craig10x said: Well, they did do it for me about 6 months ago when i e-mailed them, and it is being reported in my case (by Equifax and Experian, but not on Transunion)....unless Chase changed their policy....which i suppose may have happened...
Though that will likely get knocked out now because one of my cards was "compromised" recently and they had to cancel and re-issue a new card with a different account number and i lost my other card, so ditto for that one...

Frankly, i don't care and i won't bother contacting Chase to attempt to get it changed again (both are signature cards) because i found in the two years i had the cards (prior to the change) it had no effect on my credit at all, as supposedly many
here on fw have claimed that it does, so it wouldn't bother me in the least.....during that period of two years (before it was being reported)...i got pre-approved credit card offers by the carloads, and got credit lines, bank overdraft credit lines, etc...for
very large amounts so to me that proves that it DOES NOT affected your credit at all....

But if you feel uncomfortable about it, like the various "worry warts" here (lol) then by all means, downgrade (and it IS a downgrade) your card(s).....

I love having the extra benefits, prestige, etc of the signature card (as MANY PEOPLE DO)....and having these cards simply indicates to credit report pullers that you have an excellent credit history because you can't get these cards
if you do not.....I don't worry about scores and other bs...as long as i can get whatever credit i want, when i want...that's all that matters and that's the bottom line...


Thanks carig10x for sharing your experience and observation.

While its heartening to hear that you have been only benefited by the upgrade, MOST PEOPLE try medication only if its efficacy and safety is well established by both research and clinical trails. "DO NO HARM"!

I have an account with TrueCredit which enables to pull out reports/scores from all 3 bureaus on a daily basis. We all know that the credit scores are almost immediately impacted by and I have observed myself because of daily access:
1. % of credit utilization
2. length of credit history (i noticed that if you put some activity on your oldest card, it does have an impact)
3. type of credit
4. payment history
5. new credit
Explanation
If the credit line is not reported, in theory, it should impact your score.

So when you see people expressing apprehension about this offer, they are being wise, Sir and they are thinking of more than free pop corn.

References:
Random Blog
Bank Rate

I certainly understand your concerns, but i would still say that if it were such a bad thing to have, i don't think so many people would have the card...in fact, it was be so unpopular they would have to discontinue it....i don't delve into
reports the way you and some others here do...but i can tell you from personal experience, that whether it wasn't being reported (the previous mentioned TWO YEAR PERIOD) or was being reported (this past year) i didn't see any effect
positively or negatively either way....scores or utilization ratings not withstanding..just talking about the aspect of many hard pulls in opening various accounts...getting tons of pre-approved credit card offers, applying for credit cards,
loans, credit lines for overdraft checking, you know REAL WORLD STUFF not scores or utilization factors....

And if it were causing problems for me, i'd skip the free movie previews and free popcorn and go back to the platinum.......but i didn't have any..even when it wasn't being reported......so my "in the field" experience seems to contradict what many have been claiming here.....

As for the credit line not being reported, it's obvious that it's a signature, world or American Express charge (not credit card) by the fact that that space is left blank.....and why is it left blank? because you can exceed your actual line!
Who can get such cards? Only people with good credit history.....Obvious, i am sure to anyone who pulls your report......

I haven't seen all the "sky is falling stuff" that having a signature card is supposedly supposed to induce on you....

craig10x said: ....it is the top of the line Visa Card and lots of people with good credit ratings, have them......


I believe the visa infinite is their top of the line offering. Signature? Meh.

pueywei said: craig10x said: ....it is the top of the line Visa Card and lots of people with good credit ratings, have them......

i believe the visa infinite is their top of the line offering. Signature? Meh.


Infinite is NOT AVAILABLE in the U.S. or even the UK for that matter....in the U.S., Signature IS the TOP OF THE LINE.....

Where do you live..in Venezula (one of the countries Infinite is available)????

Do you work for Chase, craig10x?

s0meguy said: Do you work for Chase, craig10x?

Nope...but i have had Chase credit cards for many years...in fact, they were the first credit card i ever got......I've had various others over the years, including Citibank.....but always seem to come back to Chase for best balance
of customer service, rewards, and good credit lines.....

craig10x said: .....but always seem to come back to Chase for best balance of customer service, rewards, and good credit lines.....

OMG! you SO DO work at Chase for making such a statement! ROFL...

A hard inq for CLI, a CLD for BTing, and ofcourse auto upgrading to signature cards is what you call the BEST balance of rewards and customer service AND credit lines???!

not everyone can get a signature card....if you don't qualify for a line of at least $5,000 you can't get one....Apparently, you are another one in the "signature card hating" camp...... Another victim of the "imagined" terrors that will befall your credit if you accept that card......

As far as a hard pull..do you know how many BANKS and CUs do hard pulls just for opening a deposit account? (answer: MANY)......

They alway seem to have better Cash Back cards then most of the others.....and they have always been very helpful whenever a card i had from them got "compromised" (unauthorized use),,,and the only "pay" i have gotten from Chase,
is when they gave me $250 (and many other fw'ers here) $250 to open a Freedom Card account.....

I have two chase freedom cards. one from visa and one from mastercard. visa one was "upgraded" to a signature and MC was changed from freedom to freedom plus. I opt-out for the MC back to regular chase freedom and now, all my rewards bonus are gone I gotta give them a call again since a clueless csr told me it needs to be "updated" argghh!

Interestingly, just read about this on a pf blog that pointed to this thread since my card got upgraded too:

http://www.stopbuyingcrap.com/credit-related/my-chase-freedom-card-upgraded-to-visa-signature-benefits/

Considering signature cards with the concierge benefit generally comes with a $100-$200 annual fee, the free upgrade seems like a pretty good deal to me? I understand not liking the auto upgrade, but if you qualify for it, you must have met certain criteria for Chase (unless they think you'll spend more). I can't imagine it'll hurt anyone's credit score so much... from losing one TL that their credit utilization ratio will change so much.

From reading the NYT article linked in that blog, it seems the perks will be well worth it for certain people.

There's also a discussion at the myFICO forum, lots of people aren't too happy about the auto upgrade too:

http://ficoforums.myfico.com/fico/board/message?board.id=creditcard&thread.id=82707

I just find it interesting because the OP in that thread has FICO scores above 800s and he feels that this will affect his score drastically enough to waive the upgrade. To each his own, I suppose.

For those of you that have the Chase Visa Signature NPSL when you log onto chase.com. What do you see for your credit limite. I have 2 chase cards 1 is visa platinum and the other is the freedom signature. Both shows "credit line", so is the Chase visa signature actually a credit access line like we've heard and just displayed as credit line? Or is it actually a credit line?

Skipping 40 Messages...
bkcarp said: So apparently I missed the opt-out date. Instead I just had them reallocate my credit limit over to another Chase card. I figure at least that way I do not lose my that limit on my credit report. We'll see what happens in regards to limit once the card is converted.Thanks for the reminder on this, bkcarp. Even though it's now beyond the date that I was supposedly converted (May 29th), my CL was still being reported on Chase.com. Since this was my highest Chase CL, I called them up and was able to move the majority of the CL over to a different card. The CSRs never said a word about the fact that the card was now supposed to have a CAL instead of a CL. Lucky me!



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