• Go to page :
  • 1 23
  • Text Only
Voting History
rated:
So I rented a banquet room for New Year's Eve (this past year). I submitted the check with the reservation form. The party happened, and it appears that my check was never cashed. Now, the place is asking me to re-write the check. Mind you, the check was written in July of 2007 from an account that is now closed.

So while obviously I still in all practical terms owe them the money and which I will pay, I wanted to know if people had views on when is a debt considered paid? Who's fault is it if the payee does not take the necessary steps to cash the check?

If the answer is that the debt is still owed and not settled until a check is cashed, then it brings up the question -- can a payee just sit on a check for months, years, and then later expect the payer to still come good on funds that were thought to be settled a long time prior?

Thanks!

Member Summary
Most Recent Posts
The solution is simple, if you are closing your account, you contact anyone who has an uncashed check drawn on that acco... (more)

gosocks (Aug. 28, 2008 @ 9:11a) |

Never borrowed money from her. If you're curious, it was an apparently company-sponsored farewell pizza party for a dep... (more)

thok (Aug. 28, 2008 @ 11:04p) |

Another interesting topic. What about Finac? or checx? Whatever they are calling it. It's kinda like Experian, but banks... (more)

2weeks (Sep. 05, 2008 @ 2:41a) |

Quick Summary is created and edited by users like you... Add FAQ's, Links and other Relevant Information by clicking the edit button in the lower right hand corner of this message.
Thanks for visiting FatWallet.com. Join for free to remove this ad.

Prove you sent the check.

Yes, the debt is still owed, even if the check isn't cashed. The creditor can wait for a loooong time to collect on the debt, should they decide to do so.

Surely you aren't just now realizing that the check was never cashed! I would've thought that I got over on them, too. Too bad they caught it!

If the bank account you wrote the check from was not closed I would be wary of sending another check without first putting a stop-payment on the original (this does usually cost a bank fee). However, since they cannot get money from your closed account you do legally owe them that payment. If only I could write a check for $10k or more then close out the account and not be responsible for it! Imagine the opportunities...

Send them another check from your new bank account.

Brings us to an interesting question...lets say I have an old paycheck that has expired. Would calling the old firm result in them being obligated to issue a new one?

ifyouhavetoask said: Prove you sent the check.

Yes, the debt is still owed, even if the check isn't cashed. The creditor can wait for a loooong time to collect on the debt, should they decide to do so.



agreed, if they lost the check or was never cashed (even if it was "good" at the time), then can ask you for payment. no free lunch.

however I must admit I wonder how this applies to those rebate checks you get in the mail that say "only valid if cashed or deposited by Dec 31, XXXX". pretty much a scam if you ask me. but IF you wrote something that on your check and signed it and they accepted it as payment, then I believe you'd have no further obligation. otherwise you're still on the hook.

iSeller said: Brings us to an interesting question...lets say I have an old paycheck that has expired. Would calling the old firm result in them being obligated to issue a new one?


that's an interesting one because I've never really seen or heard of an "expired" paycheck. care to clarify on that?

I believe most states have labor laws that cover these kinds of issues. if you say it's lost or stolen most will just do it out of habit because paychecks are lost and have to be voided and reissued all the time. probably also one reason they love direct deposit so much...

bri719 said: however I must admit I wonder how this applies to those rebate checks you get in the mail that say "only valid if cashed or deposited by Dec 31, XXXX". pretty much a scam if you ask me. but IF you wrote something that on your check and signed it and they accepted it as payment, then I believe you'd have no further obligation. otherwise you're still on the hook.

I'm sure you can write a "Not valid after dd/mm/yy" on the check somewhere, just like you would post date it to ensure availability of funds. I haven't every done this on a check but I'm sure the reabate companies are within their rights in doing this. If you did do something like this for a company you did business with (not sure why you would) and they decided not to accept the check then the same thing should apply, you would still be responsible for payment since the transaction was not debited from your account.

Why did you close the account when you knew that the check had not cleared yet (you did know, right?) If they were to then cash the check against the closed account, they'd surely be pissed, right? You sound honest enough to pay for it now that they're asking, but were you hoping that they would just forget about it? I guess I'd be hoping for that too, but I probably wouldn't close any account myself unless I knew that all funds were reconciled first. Hope you don't mind the blunt questions.

The core of the original question is whether or not there is a "reasonable time" clause anywhere that dictates that the funds were available and should have been presented for payment. So far, seems to be that there is no such rule.

Prove you sent the check.They still have my old check so the check is in their possession. They simply forgot to cash it, otherwise they would not have let me use their facilities without payment.

Surely you aren't just now realizing that the check was never cashed! I would've thought that I got over on them, too.I did realize it a few months after the party...posting here to just see what the "rules" were....

If only I could write a check for $10k or more then close out the account and not be responsible for it! Imagine the opportunities...OK so I don't consider what happened the same as writing checks, and then immediately closing the account. I closed the account roughly 9 months after the check was written.

Brings us to an interesting question...lets say I have an old paycheck that has expired. In most states, wages are considered property, so your paycheck is considered unclaimed property and thus you are still entitled to it.

bri719 said:

however I must admit I wonder how this applies to those rebate checks you get in the mail that say "only valid if cashed or deposited by Dec 31, XXXX". pretty much a scam if you ask me. but IF you wrote something that on your check and signed it and they accepted it as payment, then I believe you'd have no further obligation. otherwise you're still on the hook.


At least some of the rebate forms I've seen have, in the legal fine print at the bottom, something to the effect that checks not cashed after a certain period of time will be void. Since you are agreeing to the legalese by sending in the rebate form, they could probably argue that the date on the check is binding.

If your bank sent you a check for some large sum, and your dog ate it, would you expect the bank to send you a new check?

Corndogg said:
I'm sure you can write a "Not valid after dd/mm/yy" on the check somewhere, just like you would post date it to ensure availability of funds.


Ehm, no. Banks will normally cash post-dated checks regardless the date. Be sure you have enough cash the moment you are giving out a check.

Edit: To be more precise, if you inform the bank of a post-dated check (giving them check number etc) before it is cached, you are on the clear. However this is not what most people call "post-dating a check". See Here UCC 4-401 (c).

Ecuadorgr said: Corndogg said:
I'm sure you can write a "Not valid after dd/mm/yy" on the check somewhere, just like you would post date it to ensure availability of funds.


Ehm, no. Banks will normally cash post-dated checks regardless the date. Be sure you have enough cash the moment you are giving out a check.

Edit: To be more precise, if you inform the bank of a post-dated check (giving them check number etc) before it is cached, you are on the clear. However this is not what most people call "post-dating a check". See Here UCC 4-401 (c).

A different question, how long will a personal check expire (without not valid after xx/xx/yy)? I vaguely remember a 6-month period, but not sure if it is per bank or by UCC.

iSeller said: Brings us to an interesting question...lets say I have an old paycheck that has expired. Would calling the old firm result in them being obligated to issue a new one?

Yes they are obligated to issue a new one. They would be the "Holder" of your abandoned property. Even if you didn't know about the uncashed check, the employer would have to turn over the sum to the state of your last known address. You should check out MissingMoney to see if you have any abandoned property.

nycll said:
A different question, how long will a personal check expire (without not valid after xx/xx/yy)? I vaguely remember a 6-month period, but not sure if it is per bank or by UCC.
See UCC Sec 4-404.
A bank may refuse to accept a check more than six months old, but it is not obligated to.

This presents yet another problem when you try to stop payment on a check. A stop payment order is effective for six months (UCC Section 4-403(b)). If the person who has the check is patient, odds are that the check will be honored after six months unless you either close the account or put in yet another stop payment order.

who is responsible? ...should I make sure that someone cashes my check or should they make sure and cash the check....interesting. This guy HANDED them the check with the application....did he pay? I know what the law says about a transfer, I still find this interesting.

ES

"months" is not a long time to hold onto a check before depositing it.
I wouldn't even call a year a very long time.

Closing an account with outstanding checks is pretty silly, really.

Rebate companies do it all the time. They open new account for each promotion and close it a few months later.

Pay them their money.

What about a government check, such as a joint tax return tax refund check that has never been cashed? Is that replacable as well like a paycheck that has not been cashed?

you're a bum. you owe them, so pay them. if they cash 2 checks, then sue te bejesus out of them.

I hope your karma gets you

IrishTomBunny said: If your bank sent you a check for some large sum, and your dog ate it, would you expect the bank to send you a new check?

Yes, actually.

You may find the statute of limitations for debt an interesting read. The debt would need to be a bit further along. For instance, I had a cable company that was trying to charge my a frivolus debt that should have been taken off the account (I had paid it in full) over 6 years ago. I simply called them and told them to remove it from their books, according to the statute of limitations, the debt is free and clear.

http://www.bcsalliance.com/y_debt_sol.html

For instance, I had a cable company that was trying to charge my a frivolus debt that should have been taken off the account (I had paid it in full) over 6 years ago. I simply called them and told them to remove it from their books, according to the statute of limitations, the debt is free and clear.
Ok, now this is just silly. If you paid a debt, then it wasn't frivolous. If you are saying that it is frivolous because you paid it, then there is no actual debt.

The SOL doesn't mean you can call a company and they'll remove it from their books. They are supposed to charge it off as a loss at 6 months, anyway. The expiration of the statute of limitations doesn't mean the debt is free and clear, either in most states. The debt may arguably be collectible if you choose to pay them, but nobody can legally sue you for them debt. That's all the SOL means.

judicska said: What about a government check, such as a joint tax return tax refund check that has never been cashed? Is that replacable as well like a paycheck that has not been cashed?

Yes, my grandfather lost NY State tax return check, called and got new check

Pylos said: You may find the statute of limitations for debt an interesting read. The debt would need to be a bit further along. For instance, I had a cable company that was trying to charge my a frivolus debt that should have been taken off the account (I had paid it in full) over 6 years ago. I simply called them and told them to remove it from their books, according to the statute of limitations, the debt is free and clear.

http://www.bcsalliance.com/y_debt_sol.html


You still onw them money but they cannot collect them by going to court.

Banks usually has terms in your deposit agreement that says if you write "not valid after XX/XX" or anything else on the front of the check, they can ignore it unless you have a written agreement with them that states otherwise. That clause is right next to the "if you forget to endorse a check, we can do it for you" clause. So you don't protect yourself when you write "not valid...", but rebate companies or employers do.

Porqin said: Rebate companies do it all the time. They open new account for each promotion and close it a few months later.Of course they happen to be running a business based on this model, so they'd know all the correct ways to do that.

A regular person with a regular bank account and regular checks, not so much.

Also, many vendors choose what is called a "positive pay" account. This matches the amount of the check with the check number. If they do not match, they are rejected. If the allotted time has elapsed, as printed on the check, it is rejected.

This is how it will play out:

They will sue you, you will lose, and may have to pay their legal fees (and your own). Unless you have a video of you handing them the check, it will be hard to prove you gave it to them.

I'm having this kind of dispute with someone right now: Writing a check does not make a bill paid. It's the payee getting the money via that check that makes it paid.

I have someone who needs to provide me proof that certain work was done and how much was paid. However, she's only providing copies of the checks that she wrote to some of the contractors. This doesn't prove anything, as anyone can write a check to anyone else, make a copy, and then rip it up.

ElectricSavant said: who is responsible? ...should I make sure that someone cashes my check or should they make sure and cash the check....interesting. This guy HANDED them the check with the application....did he pay? I know what the law says about a transfer, I still find this interesting.

ES


How about enhancing the question by adding in a company invoice marked 'paid in full'. So then if that makes it paid in full, can I then call the bank and stop payment on that check? Obviously it falls under the check fraud laws if I don't have the funds when I strike the check so let's not go there, eh?

jmz668 said: Porqin said: Rebate companies do it all the time. They open new account for each promotion and close it a few months later.Of course they happen to be running a business based on this model, so they'd know all the correct ways to do that.

A regular person with a regular bank account and regular checks, not so much.


Rebate companies are shady as they come. Losing things, saying things were never sent, etc. You can do a lot of shady things and make the appearance of following the law.

jmz668 said:
Closing an account with outstanding checks is pretty silly, really.


This is FW i bet people close checking accounts yearly to open news ones without thinking

At my last job one of my responsibilities was to contact vendors and employees that have never cashed checks we sent them. If I wasn't able to get in contact with a representative of the company who never cashed the check we were required to escheat the money to the state. I'm not sure if there is a statue of limitations as to when the money becomes rightfully yours, but I know the only way we were able to stop payment on the check and reverse the liability was when we had a signed letter from the person who never cashed our check stating that we did not owe the money or they did not accept payment.

So in your case I'd say yes you still owe the money, but at least you got to collect interest on the amount for the past year.

what happens to checks if the bank goes bankrupt? do i have to write a new check then?

davef139 said: jmz668 said:
Closing an account with outstanding checks is pretty silly, really.


This is FW i bet people close checking accounts yearly to open news ones without thinking

This is FW, people seem to think that if a check is a month old it won't be cashed. There was a thread started recently where the check was barely a month old and the OP had already written it off as never going to be cashed.

I am, unfortunately on the opposite side. My father is a great doctor, however his financial habits are atrocious. He had a private practice and owned an office building that he rented out individual offices/suites to various people. Often when he was swamped, he would just take a check and place it in his drawer thinking 'I'll just cash these next week when I get a chance." Unfortunately, his patient load never really decreases, and it was always put of. When I was in school I was constantly getting calls from tenants saying a utility person was there to shut off the power/water/whatever because of unpaid bills (fortunately the building was owned outright, so no mortgage issues), until I finally get everyone on auto-debit. A couple of years ago after I finished school I started taking over the finances for him. I had no idea how bad it really was. I've found ten of thousands of dollars of checks written over the years that were simply uncashed. Just one client had over 20,000 with several over 10,000 and checks from the state totalling nearly $20,000 (fortunately that was the easiest to reclaim since by this point it was in the state's unclaimed property division which is easy to get back).

I was, and still sometimes may be, in a bit of a dilemma. I fully understand and accept that it was his responsibility to cash them in a timely manner and this was not done. Some of these checks were piled for months at a time over several years. I've even found notes from the tenants/clients asking that the checks be cashed. I dislike having to go back to these people and saying 'yeah, we messed up, but we still now need these thousands of dollars that was to be paid 4 years ago'.

I have a stack of under $100 checks that I'll probably just write-off and not even bother. I emphatically state that I could not ever reasonably consider any kind of interest or late fees since of course the monies were submitted, just not paid out/transferred. However, after acknowledging that, I have to still accept that a service was rendered at one point and a promise of payment was made. If a check was not cashed, then the money is still owed. the payer has simply been given an interest-free loan the entire time. I am embarrassed to have to do it, but since it is my job now to look after the financial accounts, I have to act in his best interest. I'm having to right now prepare a lawsuit against an old tenant that has at least $12000 outstanding and is ignoring all correspondence (though I know they are indded at the address through current business and property records).

A lot of people would look at this subjectively and say "well if you didn't cash the check that was your fault", and I would agree; however the simple fact that if a service was rendered and the payment promised has not been transferred, then there is still a debt owed. Does anyone objectively feel that I am off-base?

Skipping 66 Messages...
thok said: gosocks said: You sure didn't have the "tell her to go ***k off for her stupidity" attitude when you borrowed the money from her. The proper blame here is in not fully accounting for all of the checks you wrote before you closed the account. Heck, if you were on top of it, you could have just asked for the check back and gave her cash after it wasn't cashed within a month. This "friend" didn't tell you to go ***k off for your stupidity for not carrying cash.

Never borrowed money from her. If you're curious, it was an apparently company-sponsored farewell pizza party for a departing co-worker that turned out not to be company-sponsored when she went around and asked everyone to pony up $12 each a few days later. I did have cash but not enough singles so it was easier for me to write the check and she did not object.

Forgive me for assuming she wouldn't sit on the check for nine months. I might have gone back to her and asked her what's up, but within a month she'd left the company, and I a few months after that, and we didn't keep in touch. I eventually forgot about it.

And, for the record, I didn't actually tell anyone to ***k off. If you go back and re-read my original post you'll notice that it was just one of those dark thoughts that I have periodically throughout the day but don't say out loud. I'm sure you have them too. Go on, admit it. Small things piss you off from time to time, right?

Another interesting topic. What about Finac? or checx? Whatever they are calling it. It's kinda like Experian, but banks use it to track bounced checks and people who write checks then close the account. A bank will pull this report before deciding if they will let you open an account with them. Would they still ding you if the 'bad' check was 9 months old?



Disclaimer: By providing links to other sites, FatWallet.com does not guarantee, approve or endorse the information or products available at these sites, nor does a link indicate any association with or endorsement by the linked site to FatWallet.com.

Thanks for visiting FatWallet.com. Join for free to remove this ad.

TRUSTe online privacy certification

While FatWallet makes every effort to post correct information, offers are subject to change without notice.
Some exclusions may apply based upon merchant policies.
© 1999-2014