All results in, described in the QS below. My current task is to get my Chase and Citi realls through - preferably from personal->biz, but at least from old pers to new pers. Will update on my challenges and victories as I go within the thread.
About Pangloss1980:
HHI: ~$200k (Based almost entirely on my parents, who I still use as my permanent address. My own is much lower as a grad student) Age: 28 Credit history: 13 years FICO: 776 Available credit: $100k in cards Current util: 0.5%
Queries below...
Oops, and almost forgot: Thanks, props, or "terrorist fist jabs" (whichever you prefer) to the many FWFers who have helped me out directly and indirectly by sharing their experiences: markkundinger, ahself, SecondCor521, hindustani, MikeR397, lappyhappy, lhendricks92... Shit, they started up the band. Thanks Jesus!
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I've recieved some feedback on my card list (thanks!) and am particularly interested in suggestions both for poorly chosen cards (unclear on the best USB offer?) and on which to make a priority listing for them. They are listed in the order I thought I'd apply for them (more desired cards first) with the order being determined heavily by what issuers I had long lines with already (for reallocation), and secondarily by thoughts like the size of the BT fee, length of the BT term, and expected size of the credit line. Comments are very welcome, but I acknowledge that I haven't done my full homework yet and don't mind putting in some time before anyone kindly donates theirs.
1) Existing Lines
PERSONAL
Card ID Amount Issuer Age of Account
E1 $20,000 Chase (Flex Rewards) 1 year 1 month
E2 $3,000 Chase (Overstock) 1 year 1 month
E3 $2,000 Chase (Free Cash Rewards) 12 years (daily spender)
E4 $20,000 AM3X (IN:NYC) 1 year 1 month
E5 $17,000 AM3X (IN:CHICAGO) 1 year 1 month
E6 $1,500 AM3X (Blue) 1 year 1 month
E7 $9,000 Discover (Miles) 1 year 1 month
E8 $5,000 Citi (Driver's Edge) 1 year 1 month
E9 $6,000 Citi (Home Repairs) 1 year 1 month
E10 $19,500 BoA 1 year 1 month
E11 1 haypenny HSBC 1 year 1 month
E12 2 bits HSBC 1 year 1 month
BUSINESS
Card ID Amount Issuer Age of Account
None :(
I'm following jackcrawfish here; since his thread may be the new standard in FWF A0R threads, and is the source for all this nifty formatting and awesome info.
Links are provided to cards mentioned, but when signing up check cardselection.com and thankyoupoints.com first, as many are offered there
2) Candidate New Lines
PERSONAL
Expected/Actual
Card ID Issuer Card Name Period BT Fee Bureau Pull Status
C1 BoA PlatPlus 12 0 EX/? Called - $7500 new, consolidated old line with it to bring it to $27k. See discussion on second page.
C2 BoA Pet Rewards 6 0 EX/? Did not apply
C3 Chase Plat MCard 12 75 EQ/? Approved after 20 minutes - $5k :(
C4 Citi Ass. Bank 12 0 EQ/? Discussion Instant approved $22k
C5 Wells F. Vis Plat. 9 0 ?/? Instant approved - $4k :( Jesus...
C6 Barclay's IFLY 12 50 TU/TU Denied! Too many inquiries C7 USBank Linux 12 0 EQ/? $10k! Hope I can still manage that BT even though not done with the app...
C8 Discover More? 12 75 TU or EX? "Approved" after a fashion - would only agree to move my existing $8k line to this new card with the 0% 12mo offer. Could have been worse...
C15 Nat'l Cit Quilter's 6 0 ? Delayed approval - $5k. Friendliest, most enjoyable rep in the history of the planet.
BUSINESS
Expected/Actual
Card ID Issuer Card Name Period BT Fee Bureau Pull
C9 Advanta Plat Biz 15 90 EQ/? Instant approval - $11k
C10 Citi CitiBiz 12 0 EQ Approved 10k
C11 Barclay's BankAtlantic 15 75 TU/TU Denied! Too many new accounts (TU)
C12 Chase Chase Biz 15 99 EQ Approved for 7k
C13 Chase Chase Cash 12 99 EQ Chase said I could open two new accounts with them - this one is tentatively the one I chose to *not* have, in case Chase won't reall my other large personal line to a biz card
C14 Discover Disc Biz 6 75 ? Application withdrawn because I'm an idiot (see page 2 comment)
3) Total New Credit
PERSONAL: 56,000 in completely new credit (ugh - half of A0R 1.0 results, though with many fewer cards applied for)
All new credit available for 0%
Currently have an additional $25k in old limits now on new, 12mo personal BT cards.
(Shifting in progress - more Citi and Chase attempts of pers->biz upcoming)
BUSINESS: 28,000 in completely new credit (wish I'd done this in round 1!)
Have shifted an additional $25k from personal to biz cards, in progress for another 5-30k in shiftage attempts
Explanation/solicitation for feedback:
I've decided to err on the side of not setting off red flags by applying for too many cards from the same issuer in the same category (i.e. biz, personal).
That means (in all cases except the Chase and Citi, inquired about below), that there's only one card per issuer per category.
Cards/Issuers ignored
Capital One doesn't seem to have a cap on their BT fees?
AM3X is the same, which makes me want to cry.
Pulaski is a pain in the ass.
Wachovia I'm ignoring because the phone app scares me - my appeal is based on HHI, which I don't want to have to talk to anyone about in detail lest they realize I'm not the one earning it. Anyone disagree?
RBS has me torn - with such a slow approval process, is this good for A0Rs?
WAMU seems to give crap limits, as they should, because they're going bust.
Message edited by: Pangloss1980 on 2008-09-09 08:11:04 CDT
All the same demographic info as above, except I only had one card at $13k at the start. Summarized usage stats: Chase: $17.5k from $20k card (12 mo) AM3X: $7k from $19k card (6 mo) BoA: $7k from $19k card (6 mo) Citi: $8k combined from two $5k cards (12 mo) Discover: $6.5k from $8k card (12 mo)
So in all, about $46k from $105k available. (Other cards not used, including big lines from AM3X.) Big goof up in that all cards were personal, no business. Only adverse action was a $5k crap HSBC card being cancelled when I never used it; so in other words, none.
FICO before A0R 1.0: ~790 (I think from EX) FICO after A0R 1.0: EQ 776, EX 787 (both myFIC0), TU 798 (TU's own scoring system)
A0R 1.0 score summary: trough was EQ 662, the month after all BT balances had finally reported. 20 points gained after 2 months payment, then another 20 after another 2 months, then a bizarre 20 point dip after all the 6 mo BTs were paid off, and (more or less) complete recovery 12 months after initiation of A0R 1.0.
Pangloss1980 said:The thread may end up being redundant if no one else is looking to do an AOR with my demographics.Even so, there is the matter of the data points that you provide. I suspect that I'm not the only one who will watch your A0R for that reason.
Who knows what good fortune you'll have on this second round of yours? Best of luck.
I'm obviously going to be doing business cards this time. But despite all my reading and chatting here at FWF, I'm not entirely clear on how to best approach this: a) I saw one enterprising individual created his own LLC with AOR as its stated business, but my lawyer friends tell me I'm looking at several hundred (or $400) to get that done; also, it would only have been in business since, well, now, so I wouldn't expect great things from it before another round or two, no? b) If I do the seemingly more popular route and just identify myself as a business, how much trouble could I get in if I really _haven't_ sold anything on eBay or Craigslist, but just say I've sold a modest amount? ($300?) I assume it's still worth doing the business card apps even for such a small number? c) A friend has an honest LLC doing honest work with a reasonable cash flow. Are the tax consequences of hooking up to that LLC significant enough that I'm better off doing it on my own?
I know the questions are an awful combination of bland and difficult (especially part c), but any help would be greatly appreciated.
a.) forget the $400...why complicate things? b.) how much trouble?...none. You don't have to sell on 3Bay to be a business; do some "consulting" work. c.) leave your friend out of it...why complicate things?
Look at past Biz threads like Mike937's, etc, for more info.
I know the questions are an awful combination of bland and difficult (especially part c), but any help would be greatly appreciated.
That's all for now, I'll update as I go.
If you're just doing business cards for your own A0R, you can most likely be a sole proprietorship instead of an LLC. Check with the entity that regulates business in your state (in my state it is the Secretary of State) or check your state's laws. In my state the filing requirements and costs are nil if you do it right. You won't get some of the benefits of an LLC, but again, if they're for your own A0R you probably don't need those benefits.
SecondCor521 said:If you're just doing business cards for your own A0R, you can most likely be a sole proprietorship instead of an LLC. Check with the entity that regulates business in your state (in my state it is the Secretary of State) or check your state's laws. In my state the filing requirements and costs are nil if you do it right. You won't get some of the benefits of an LLC, but again, if they're for your own A0R you probably don't need those benefits.
Ooh. Genius! If anyone happens to know the regs for this in Minnesota that would be awesome, but I'll count on doing the legwork myself in a little bit.
Mike397's Citi disaster has me a little spooked - it's hard for me to understand how that AA came about (particularly the breadth of it, hitting family members and all), and a small, paranoid little voice has been asking "Are there issuers looking at FWF and trying to decipher who some of us are by the (quite specific) data we give in our posts? Or, will there be?" As a result, I haven't posted precisely accurate information about my existing lines; but someone just tell me I'm being overly paranoid and I'll get the right data up.
You mean, do I think that Citibank searched for all accounts opened in the name of "Michael R." and then closed them... no.
The much, much bigger threat from posting too much information on FWF is on spoiling any deal that would be too sensitive to having a ton of people taking advantage of it, and that's where you have to balance public service, and greed.
Mike397's Citi disaster has me a little spooked .... I haven't posted precisely accurate information about my existing lines; but someone just tell me I'm being overly paranoid and I'll get the right data up.paranoia is a relative term ... IMO, you are fine to keep some of your info private... if, however, accurate sage advice is desired from the likes of markkundinger, ahself, SecondCor521, hindustani, MikeR397, lappyhappy & lhendricks92, then please post "close to accurate info" so that FWF will get the jest of what your saying about your redundant 2.0 AOR.
Did I read correctly that your score has gone down from 793 to 776 at only 0.5% utilization? were the scores from the same bureau/service? curious....
Also while biz cards will be very good for you this round, I'd recommend adding USBank and RBS Peoples bank to your list.
Perhaps an online reallocation/consolidation of those AMEX cards wouldn't hurt either as window dressing your bureau with a single 36000 limit card might net you a better limit from those competing to match AMEX's line (make sense?)... (on second thought maybe your IN: cards are already being merged with your BLUE as a result of the IN: card program retirement)
Pangloss1980 said:b) If I do the seemingly more popular route and just identify myself as a business, how much trouble could I get in if I really _haven't_ sold anything on eBay or Craigslist, but just say I've sold a modest amount? ($300?) I assume it's still worth doing the business card apps even for such a small number?
This is exactly what I did and my modest amount was more like $100. I didn't get great lines, but I was able to leverage the lines (personal and business) I already had.
jackcrawfish said:Did I read correctly that your score has gone down from 793 to 776 at only 0.5% utilization? were the scores from the same bureau/service? curious....
Yes, both reports are from myFICO, reporting on my Equifax report. I haven't checked Experian because a) it costs $15 and b) I'm scared. The utilization during the BT period was 45%, but that's been paid off for a while; I guess I'm just being hit by the % of my credit that's new and scary? (I don't have any loans of any other variety.)
jackcrawfish said:Also while biz cards will be very good for you this round, I'd recommend adding USBank and RBS Peoples bank to your list.
Perhaps an online reallocation/consolidation of those AMEX cards wouldn't hurt either as window dressing your bureau with a single 36000 limit card might net you a better limit from those competing to match AMEX's line (make sense?)... (on second thought maybe your IN: cards are already being merged with your BLUE as a result of the IN: card program retirement)
Several great suggestions here, thanks! My AM3X CLIs send me to an income form, which is problematic for me as HHI is where I look good, not individual income. BoA auto-CLIs me every month or so because... I don't know why.
But consolidating AM3X to look pretty: 1) All newcomers, this is why you keep reading, because I've been around here over a year and hadn't thought of that; 2) I know I've seen some people having fun with large AM3X lines, but isn't $25k some kind of magic # for them where they suddenly start getting (more) nervous about you? Since it seems there are no sweet AM3X BT deals to be had anymore (?) I'm hoping to keep my CL with them intact just to offset heavier utilization from more productive issuers. Thoughts?
Also, thanks for the card suggestions! I'm going to put up my tentative list soon, very appreciative of any and all suggestions. Except Pulaski. I don't have a first-born yet, and even when I do, they're not getting it, and that seems to be what they need to issue a card. Maybe they can split a half with AM3X when they come for me with a financial review, Solomon-style.
markkundinger said:You mean, do I think that Citibank searched for all accounts opened in the name of "Michael R." and then closed them... no.
I know, I know, it sounds crazy; but that AA was hard to understand as reported! The idea, btw, which is at least 2% less goofy than you made it sound is that they looked at his reported Citi lines, used that to quickly find him (and if there was any doubt, soft-pulled and compared his other reported lines to what he's listed here), and then went nuts on all the people he's identified as BT deadbeats (as we're probably considered by issuers) reporting from the same house. I wouldn't think it would take much effort, but then there's also not much gain, except possibly hoping that he would report to the rest of us and scare us from abusing Citi as we are wont to do.
Pangloss1980 said:But consolidating AM3X to look pretty: 1) All newcomers, this is why you keep reading, because I've been around here over a year and hadn't thought of that; 2) I know I've seen some people having fun with large AM3X lines, but isn't $25k some kind of magic # for them where they suddenly start getting (more) nervous about you? Since it seems there are no sweet AM3X BT deals to be had anymore (?) I'm hoping to keep my CL with them intact just to offset heavier utilization from more productive issuers. Thoughts?
Like you, I rely on my AM3X cards to help with utilization.
Maybe you could pre-empt the automatic conversion, so that you don't end up with three Blue cards, and ask them to reallocate across two, i.e. your current Blue and a new one, or a new non-Blue card. Just make sure they can/will do this without a hard pull. Since they're converting the cards anyway, I assume they can.
BTW, I think the $25k magic number primarily comes into play if you do other things to draw their attention, i.e. a large BT, unusually large charges, hitting the CLI button several times, etc. If you're a good customer and don't set off any other flags, I imagine you'll be okay.
The quick summary now has my proposed cards. I've already recieved helpful feedback via PMs, but the list is still a bit rough-drafty and I still have some homework to do before I'm comfortable overtly soliciting advice; but comments from any generous souls who see some glaring errors or omissions are obviously greatly appreciated. As described above, my card ordering is primarily based on considerations of where I have long lines established (with the hopes of reallocating them to a pretty new BT offer), and secondarily on traditional concerns like length of BT period, BT fee, and expected size of new line from issuer.
OP said:I'm following jackcrawfish here; since his thread may be the new standard in FWF A0R threads, and is the source for all this nifty formatting and awesome info.I'm humbled. Thank you.
The real props go to those already mentioned... They've seen the datapoints which benefit all of us...
Discover has been left off some prominent recent AORs, but I haven't seen an explanation.Discover will allow more than one card now (Mrs J experience). Previously, it was understood in mainstream FWF that no more than 1 card could be issued...
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is that they looked at his reported Citi lines, used that to quickly find him (and if there was any doubt, soft-pulled and compared his other reported lines to what he's listed here), and then went nuts on all the people he's identified as BT deadbeats (as we're probably considered by issuers) reporting from the same house. I wouldn't think it would take much effort, but then there's also not much gain, except possibly hoping that he would report to the rest of us and scare us from abusing Citi as we are wont to do.