Although I don't usually like to bother the internet with my problems, I am in need of some advice regarding engagement rings and weddings. I just read the fascinating threads on financial compatibility in marriage and tactics for dealing with a financially irresponsible spouse (http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/848247 and http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/826221), and I'm really worried.
I have spent the last 1 1/2 years with a very nice young lady, and I'd now like to marry her. Problem is, her expectations are pretty unreasonable:
- A $25k ring from a "brand name" diamond store (a ring of similar size from a normal retailer would cost maybe half that, and the exact ring she envisions sells on eBay -used- for about $10k).
- A $45k wedding (overseas, about 2 dozen guests, no priest, but everything top notch).
I consider these things to be incredibly wasteful, and am disgusted at the thought of such excess. I don't want to piss away my savings (and realistically this kind of money, properly invested, could put one of our children through college). I recognize the valid points some posters made in the threads referenced above about the importance of buying her the perfect ring and dream wedding, but I don't think I can go through with this. We are pretty financially compatible, save, make acceptable incomes, and don't really have a problem with overspending. She has about $100k in school loan debt, and I have about that much in savings/stocks (no debt at all).
Is there a solution to this dilemma? Can I offer to have a reasonable wedding in the US (and a nice honeymoon!) and use the balance to pay off her debt (which I'd happily do; I just can't spend it on a stupid wedding)? What is a reasonable expense for a ring and a wedding of this size?
I am very worried that no matter what I do, this is a terrible foundation for marriage. I won't be happy knowing how much money we've wasted, and she won't be happy without her dream wedding. What can I do?
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hkia08 said:Although I don't usually like to bother the internet with my problems
A $25k ring from a "brand name" diamond store (a ring of similar size from a normal retailer would cost maybe half that, and the exact ring she envisions sells on eBay -used- for about $10k)Rather than debate whether one should spend 25k on a ring, it would be one thing if she knew enough about rings and diamonds to have a list of researched and detailed specs, but to say "spend $25k and only from a -brand name- store" is ridiculous.
1) Buy the ring used on eBay...go to the "brand name store" to purchase a ring box...she'll never know. I didn't do this but you'll be surprised how UNEDUCATED women are when it comes to rings. I spent a year researching a ring (eventually bought it from Blue Nile) and after having numerous conversations with women I found out that most women know VERY little about rings. 2) Have her parents pay for the wedding (as is the tradition). If not, have an honest discussion regarding YOUR expectations b/c if you can't talk about these things now or compromise about these things now, then she's not the one.
hkia08 said:- A $45k wedding (overseas, about 2 dozen guests, no priest, but everything top notch)Where does she envision the 45k to come from ? And depending on the country, the wedding could be cheaper overseas. Does she want a US wedding worth 45k, or just want to spend 45k on the wedding, period ?
Why don't you go shopping together at a non brand-name store, and see if she likes any of the rings there? Most of the cost is in the diamond anyway, so if she finds a nice setting she likes you can get a big rock with lower clarity and color for cheaper.
As for the wedding, you might want to have a long talk about your financial future as a couple. Perhaps her parents or your parents could chip in for the wedding, once you compromise on the final budget?
Why is she insisting on these two things? How are her finances otherwise? Is she normally a big spender? Does she have credit card debt?
If she's only insisting on these two things because these have been her dream since she was a little girl, but otherwise pretty level-headed when it comes to her finances, then there is hope. You can still try to reason with her. Do your research on the rings and the story on saving money for downpayment on the house, etc., and then show her your findings and hopefully she'll understand and you'll be fine.
If this is how she is and how she usually handles her money (has credit card debt, always spending money on expensive clothes, handbags, shoes, etc.), then unfortunately you probably don't want to marry her because she'll be "pissing away" a lot more of your money than just the $25K ring and $45k wedding after you are married and I guarantee you won't live happily ever after.
I assume she has other amazing qualities, because this sort of mindset would be a deal-breaker for many people (and I expect all FWFers). Anyway, you know best. One idea about the ring, is to show her the "Blood Diamonds" documentary (not the movie), and hope she sort of "gets it". Of course then she might just want a lab cultured diamond (like the Apollo ones), and they are more expensive than mined ones
My fiancee considered it absurd for us to spend thousands of OUR money for a rock price-fixed by a greedy cartel. We went for a brilliant (actually more than a diamond - look it up!) moissanite instead.
That statement right there is a huge financial red flag for someone who can't live below their means (assuming she doesn't have a very large salary). This year, it is a wedding. But it doesn't stop there. Next year, a new car. The year after that, a new kitchen. Then a luxury vacation, a new wardrobe, a bigger house, and so on.
It sounds like you two have very different financial philosophies even though you say you are financially compatible. Before you get married, I would strongly recommend a no-holds-barred discussion about how you two will manage finances. Given that she has $100k debt and you have $100k in assets, that discussion should include a prenup.
maybe she is not the one. if the wedding is what will make or break your marriage, then whats to say a baller wont tickle her fancy when you are married?
FW10001 said:Consider a prenuptial before the wedding is decided on.
Harsh, but probably true. My only advice is try to be as honest with her as possible. If she ever finds out that the "brand name" ring that she wanted so much was bought used on eBay, I am guessing she will not be happy.
hkia08 said: - A $25k ring from a "brand name" diamond store (a ring of similar size from a normal retailer would cost maybe half that, and the exact ring she envisions sells on eBay -used- for about $10k).
- A $45k wedding (overseas, about 2 dozen guests, no priest, but everything top notch).
I really, really, really hope you are just a troll, or joking. $25k for a ring? For a money sink that won't bring you or your wife one iota of non-materialistic happiness? The wedding is very pricey, too, but not AS bad from what I've seen of American wedding excess. But that $45k may balloon to $100k depending on what her expectations actually are. Overseas? Flying guests? Paying for the hotel? Hmmm.
Maybe wait another year before you pull the trigger?
I like the advice that she pays for the ring and wedding. A marriage is a partnership, after all.
Shouldn't have let her know you had 100k...now in her mind it seems like you're being selfish given that you can afford these items and still have $30k left!
hkia08 said:Problem is, her expectations are pretty unreasonable:
- A $25k ring from a "brand name" diamond store (a ring of similar size from a normal retailer would cost maybe half that, and the exact ring she envisions sells on eBay -used- for about $10k).
- A $45k wedding (overseas, about 2 dozen guests, no priest, but everything top notch).
hkia08 said:We are pretty financially compatible, save, make acceptable incomes, and don't really have a problem with overspending. She has about $100k in school loan debt, and I have about that much in savings/stocks (no debt at all). Are you really compatible given these expectations? Has she told you why she expects an extravagant ring and wedding?
Also, after $100k in school loans, how much is she making? Is she making enough to repay the loans on her own one day?
hkia08 said:I consider these things to be incredibly wasteful, and am disgusted at the thought of such excess...That is all you need to say. It will ONLY get worse from here on out. Trust your gut.
Even if she can suck the chrome off a bumper hitch, eventually the sex life will cool. If she's expecting a sizable inheritance, that might wind up stuck in probate, or given to the father's fourth wife instead. Etc.
The net is this: deal with this conflict now, and don't let emotion cloud your judgment. If you can't agree on some basic financial priorities now, you're absolutely doomed. It's just a matter of when. Better for you it happens before the wedding.
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