delzy said:Here is a nice opportunity to measure her worth. You plan an impromptu trip to Vegas. Bring your "life savings" with you. Pik a nice place where you wouldn't mind staying again and go gamble hard there. Make sure you join the players' club and be rated playing high stakes craps w/ 10x odds. You just bet pass/no pass with full odds (look it up if you don't know the game). You should be able to wager a couple hundred thousand over time with a house vig of only about 1%. Don't be afraid to lose $20k-$30k. You are getting ready to lose a whole lot more and will look back on this as CHEAP!! Anyway, the host at the casino will have a new best friend. You will have standing offers to comp rooms and air fare if you are a little lucky. Now this is where it gets a little funky.

Stop at a bank on the way out of town and get a safety deposit box to store your money in. Put all but about $8-$10k in the box. When you get home, make the big confession: "I was trying to win enough money to pay off your student loans, the wedding and your ring, but I left all my money in Vegas but this." Throw her a bank envelope. She'll say, "You lost it all but this." To which you answer, "I was up and down and made over $200k in wagers. I finally gave up and this is all I have left."

Give her a couple months to stew and if the wedding is still on, you've got a keeper. Otherwise, you can at least go to Vegas for free a few times care of the friendly casino where you gambled.

You see, your big mistake was letting her know how much savings you had before you married her. Don't make that mistake next time. And if you think she's good at spoiling herself, just wait until she starts spoiling her kids. The first time you say no, you'll be cut off in the bedroom. The second time you say no, she'll call a lawyer. That's just what love means to someone with those kind of values.

This is an incredibly stupid idea and I can't understand why anyone would give it green. What on earth would this prove? A decent, sensible person would break things off with any dolt who went to Vegas with the intent of gambling to pay off her debts or who actually did blow most of his life savings gambling, so if she stays with the guy, who is showing strong signs of being a gambling addict (95% of whom end up as paupers), then she's just dumb and irresponsible, not "a keeper." As I said above, I don't think any testing of her personality and character is needed in light of what she's said, but if you think any such test would be necessary, there are more sensible means of doing so. As for thinking $20-30,000 is an ok price to pay for getting a few vacations in Vegas, that's idiotic. You can go around the world a time or two for $30,000, so trying to rationalize losing that much money as being a reasonable trade-off for getting treated by some Vegas casino like a big-spending fool who needs to be pampered to encourage him to lose more money at the tables is asinine. You can use common sense for free, so while losing $20-30k is cheaper than losing hundreds of thousands in a divorce, it nonetheless is just throwing away a lot of money.

As for this Mike guy above claiming he wouldn't want to be with a woman who would be content with a $250 ring, wow. Seriously, wow. You are saying that a spouse who cares a whole lot more about you than a piece of jewelry is unsuitable. My three-year old daughter has been into fairy tales and movie adaptations of fairy tales lately and there are a lot of characters in those stories that remind me of you. None of those characters are protagonists. I'm not someone who makes any sort of habit to wish ill things upon other people, but I would find it hilariously apt if your wife dumped you for someone who had more money.

lousygolfer said:
As for this Mike guy above claiming he wouldn't want to be with a woman who would be content with a $250 ring, wow. Seriously, wow. You are saying that a spouse who cares a whole lot more about you than a piece of jewelry is unsuitable. My three-year old daughter has been into fairy tales and movie adaptations of fairy tales lately and there are a lot of characters in those stories that remind me of you. None of those characters are protagonists. I'm not someone who makes any sort of habit to wish ill things upon other people, but I would find it hilariously apt if your wife dumped you for someone who had more money.

She does not care about a piece of jewelry more than me. If she had to get rid of her ring or me she would choose her ring to get rid of. She does however want the nicer things in life. A $250 ring doesn't cut it IMO. If you have a woman that settles so be it. Don't think that she doesn't settle on everything though, including possibly a spouse. People who settle in life, settle on everything. People who expect the finest things in life expect the finest things in life on everything, including their spouse.

Nothing wrong with OPs woman wanting the best, unless he doesn't want a woman who wants the best. If so move along and let another man provide her with the best.

mahlax said:But when your compatibility as a couple is based on "nice things" that are external, do you not worry that you have built a house on quicksand? This is not a rhetorical question, mikef07. Does it not worry you that if, for some reason, your earning power was greatly and permanently diminished by incapacity, illness, or personal tragedy that your "quality beautiful woman" might abandon you, since after all she is "desired by many" and you can no longer provide what she wants from a mate?
Amen. My woman and I have very similar financial priorities. We're planning our wedding, and her main concern is that it not cost us much, that our friends have a good time, and that we get a kick ass honeymoon. We're keeping the wedding costs as low as we can because we want to use our money on more important things like buying a nicer house in a few years when it's time to crank out kids.

OP, I'd suggest sitting down with your woman and discussing what your priorities are in life. If it turns out you two aren't a good match, it's better to find it out now than after being married a few years.

mikef07 said:I have the ability to make a significant amount of money no matter the industry and/or city. You could take every penny from me and throw me in a random city and within 2 years I would be making over $100K.
This reads just like the full page newspaper infomercial.

Since I'm getting some red, I think I should go into it some more. Plus you and I have difference in opinions and values, so be curious, not critical.

-Very often in Chinese weddings, people most likely give money whether you ask for it or not. Again in my first post, I did ask quite a few people their thoughts, and they simply didn't care. So I honestly don't think it was tacky. I also already mentioned that even if those invited to the ceremony only didn't give us presents, we were happy also just because they were there to witness. We did verbally tell some of these guests they didn't have to give us anything, but they did give us gifts. We also made sure there was cake and wedding favors at the wedding ceremony, so those invited to the ceremony only would have something to remember the event by.

-Oh, in Chinese culture, there's something called "Return Gift." For those that gave money but didn't attend the wedding ceremony or banquet, we returned the money back to them in its entirety.

-My "strategic" planning was more a joke when I typed that. Basically there were about 5 wealthy guests out of the ~250. So yeah, I made sure they were invited. Otherwise, all those invited to the banquet were close friends and relatives or special requests by our parents.

-My wife and I made sure that EVERY SINGLE PERSON invited to the wedding (especially those invited to the ceremony only) were invited back to our house warming party one month after the wedding, and we specifically told everyone NOT to bring gifts, as it was our way of saying sorry for not being able to invite them to the banquet. We did a massive BBQ with ~140 people rolling through our house throughout the day. We paid for all the food and drinks. Some people still brought presents, but nothing expensive. Just good gestures. Everyone had a great time.

-We made sure everyone got a thank you card with photos. Even if they didn't give us presents or attend the wedding.

-As far as reciprocals, actually my wife's friends and my friends are mostly married. I think that's why we were the ones getting the reciprocals now!

In the end, no one complained about us asking for gift money and everyone had a great time.

Going back to OP, communication is key. She can talk about her dreams of a $25k ring and $45k wedding. That's fine. You can tell her you wish to marry to a wife making senior executive salary so you can be a stay at home dad! Bring her back down to earth and communicate. Someone mentioned the premarital counseling and that's good advise. Know how compatible you two are and communicate. So many divorces are because of arguments over money so get that out of the way first.

Thanks!

mikef07 said:No wonder most of the poeple here are divorced, alone, or with some loser woman. Reading things like make her sign a pre-nup, don't tell her how much money you have, get rid of her, etc. is just setting yourself up fopr failure. No offense but I want a wife who expects and wants the finer things in life, which is why she is with me. You get a woman who settles or is OK driving around in a 1989 Crown Victoria and that is exactly what she will marry. The equivalent of a 1989 Crown Vic.

I spent ~$16,000 on a ring, ~$8000 on a gift for my wife, and $3000 on a honey moon. We had 2 weddings,. One cost $25,000 and a week later the second cost $65,000. Is it a waste of money? To me maybe, but not to my wife. There is nothing wrong with a woman who wants/expects the finer things in life. My wife carries a $3500 handbag around which to me is the biggest waste in the world. She likes it and that is good enough for me. I have a $4000 XBR TV which is a big waste to her. I like it and that is good enough for her. If you don't agree with that philosophy you should leave because of a difference in philosophy, not because your SO does not settle.

Quality woman who are beautiful want nice things in their life. If you don't share that belief system then you won't be getting a quality beautiful woman. All quality beautiful woman are desired by many so acting like a selfish loser will not get you anywhere. If you won't provide for your wife someone else will. My wife and I have never had finance problems and are as happy as ever going on 8 years now.

See if she's still with you a month after a financial catastrophe. Like when one of your doctor-client's insurance companies sue you into the ground. You talk big for someone with a pocket full of jack, do you think you'd still be so smart if you lost it all through one class action lawsuit?

PRE-NUP!!!!

hkia08 said:Although I don't usually like to bother the internet with my problems, I am in need of some advice regarding engagement rings and weddings. I just read the fascinating threads on financial compatibility in marriage and tactics for dealing with a financially irresponsible spouse (http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/848247 and http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/826221), and I'm really worried.

I have spent the last 1 1/2 years with a very nice young lady, and I'd now like to marry her. Problem is, her expectations are pretty unreasonable:

- A $25k ring from a "brand name" diamond store (a ring of similar size from a normal retailer would cost maybe half that, and the exact ring she envisions sells on eBay -used- for about $10k).

- A $45k wedding (overseas, about 2 dozen guests, no priest, but everything top notch).

I consider these things to be incredibly wasteful, and am disgusted at the thought of such excess. I don't want to piss away my savings (and realistically this kind of money, properly invested, could put one of our children through college). I recognize the valid points some posters made in the threads referenced above about the importance of buying her the perfect ring and dream wedding, but I don't think I can go through with this. We are pretty financially compatible, save, make acceptable incomes, and don't really have a problem with overspending. She has about $100k in school loan debt, and I have about that much in savings/stocks (no debt at all).

Is there a solution to this dilemma? Can I offer to have a reasonable wedding in the US (and a nice honeymoon!) and use the balance to pay off her debt (which I'd happily do; I just can't spend it on a stupid wedding)? What is a reasonable expense for a ring and a wedding of this size?

I am very worried that no matter what I do, this is a terrible foundation for marriage. I won't be happy knowing how much money we've wasted, and she won't be happy without her dream wedding. What can I do?

Thanks for your advice!

There are topics like this all the time here and its always from a guy. Here is the thing. For us guys, I think it is safe to say that that most of us would be fine to just go to the county office and get your certificate and go on a cheap honeymoon. If we could get away with spending as little money as possible we would.

Women often dream or envision $204803957 rings from tiffanys and fancy weddings with 3958392045 guests and have everything planned when it comes to decorations or whatever. Of course when they are having those dreams, all that stuff doesn't cost a penny. In many cases their real weddings won't cost them a penny either. They all eventually come to grips with reality and face the facts and be realistic.

Put it this way if she is willing to marry you, then she will be willing to give up her fantasy of having a wedding that you can't afford. If you can afford her dream wedding then give it to her! You won't be happy knowing all the other things you could have had with the money you spent, but you will be a happy known that you made the one you love extremely happy.

I just got married in late June. Her engagement ring and wedding ring came from my grandparent's, so it was free. I bought my ring on eBay (hint - tungsten) for $29 shipped. We had our wedding at an amphitheater in the forest (free) and a nice catered lunch at a nearby lake, also in the forest (free except for food). We ended up getting far more in gifts and gift cards (we registered at Amazon) than we spent.

Financial compatibility is a big cause of divorce. You either have to move on or convince your honey that spending more on a shiny pebble than a car is insane.

kamalktk said:British FWers
Another British FWer link

Seems like American women have become too spoiled and have grand delusions of incredible, lavish weddings from watching all these expensive weddings of the "rich and famous" on TV and magazines. If she doesn't want to get married in something YOU could afford, then it's time to drop her. In the wise words of the Geto Boys, you gotta "let a ho be a ho."