Rings, Weddings, etc.

Although I don't usually like to bother the internet with my problems, I am in need of some advice regarding engagement rings and weddings. I just read the fascinating threads on financial compatibility in marriage and tactics for dealing with a financially irresponsible spouse (http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/848247 and http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/826221), and I'm really worried.

I have spent the last 1 1/2 years with a very nice young lady, and I'd now like to marry her. Problem is, her expectations are pretty unreasonable:

- A $25k ring from a "brand name" diamond store (a ring of similar size from a normal retailer would cost maybe half that, and the exact ring she envisions sells on eBay -used- for about $10k).

- A $45k wedding (overseas, about 2 dozen guests, no priest, but everything top notch).

I consider these things to be incredibly wasteful, and am disgusted at the thought of such excess. I don't want to piss away my savings (and realistically this kind of money, properly invested, could put one of our children through college). I recognize the valid points some posters made in the threads referenced above about the importance of buying her the perfect ring and dream wedding, but I don't think I can go through with this. We are pretty financially compatible, save, make acceptable incomes, and don't really have a problem with overspending. She has about $100k in school loan debt, and I have about that much in savings/stocks (no debt at all).

Is there a solution to this dilemma? Can I offer to have a reasonable wedding in the US (and a nice honeymoon!) and use the balance to pay off her debt (which I'd happily do; I just can't spend it on a stupid wedding)? What is a reasonable expense for a ring and a wedding of this size?

I am very worried that no matter what I do, this is a terrible foundation for marriage. I won't be happy knowing how much money we've wasted, and she won't be happy without her dream wedding. What can I do?

Thanks for your advice!

hkia08 said: Although I don't usually like to bother the internet with my problems

A $25k ring from a "brand name" diamond store (a ring of similar size from a normal retailer would cost maybe half that, and the exact ring she envisions sells on eBay -used- for about $10k)Rather than debate whether one should spend 25k on a ring, it would be one thing if she knew enough about rings and diamonds to have a list of researched and detailed specs, but to say "spend $25k and only from a -brand name- store" is ridiculous.

hkia08 said: - A $45k wedding (overseas, about 2 dozen guests, no priest, but everything top notch)Where does she envision the 45k to come from ? And depending on the country, the wedding could be cheaper overseas. Does she want a US wedding worth 45k, or just want to spend 45k on the wedding, period ?

Why is she insisting on these two things? How are her finances otherwise? Is she normally a big spender? Does she have credit card debt?

If she's only insisting on these two things because these have been her dream since she was a little girl, but otherwise pretty level-headed when it comes to her finances, then there is hope. You can still try to reason with her. Do your research on the rings and the story on saving money for downpayment on the house, etc., and then show her your findings and hopefully she'll understand and you'll be fine.

If this is how she is and how she usually handles her money (has credit card debt, always spending money on expensive clothes, handbags, shoes, etc.), then unfortunately you probably don't want to marry her because she'll be "pissing away" a lot more of your money than just the $25K ring and $45k wedding after you are married and I guarantee you won't live happily ever after.

she won't be happy without her dream wedding.

That statement right there is a huge financial red flag for someone who can't live below their means (assuming she doesn't have a very large salary). This year, it is a wedding. But it doesn't stop there. Next year, a new car. The year after that, a new kitchen. Then a luxury vacation, a new wardrobe, a bigger house, and so on.

It sounds like you two have very different financial philosophies even though you say you are financially compatible. Before you get married, I would strongly recommend a no-holds-barred discussion about how you two will manage finances. Given that she has $100k debt and you have $100k in assets, that discussion should include a prenup.

Consider a prenuptial before the wedding is decided on.

maybe she is not the one.
if the wedding is what will make or break your marriage, then whats to say a baller wont tickle her fancy when you are married?

hkia08 said:
- A $25k ring from a "brand name" diamond store (a ring of similar size from a normal retailer would cost maybe half that, and the exact ring she envisions sells on eBay -used- for about $10k).

- A $45k wedding (overseas, about 2 dozen guests, no priest, but everything top notch).

I really, really, really hope you are just a troll, or joking. $25k for a ring? For a money sink that won't bring you or your wife one iota of non-materialistic happiness? The wedding is very pricey, too, but not AS bad from what I've seen of American wedding excess. But that $45k may balloon to $100k depending on what her expectations actually are. Overseas? Flying guests? Paying for the hotel? Hmmm.

Maybe wait another year before you pull the trigger?

I like the advice that she pays for the ring and wedding. A marriage is a partnership, after all.

hkia08 said: Problem is, her expectations are pretty unreasonable:

- A $25k ring from a "brand name" diamond store (a ring of similar size from a normal retailer would cost maybe half that, and the exact ring she envisions sells on eBay -used- for about $10k).

- A $45k wedding (overseas, about 2 dozen guests, no priest, but everything top notch).

hkia08 said: We are pretty financially compatible, save, make acceptable incomes, and don't really have a problem with overspending. She has about $100k in school loan debt, and I have about that much in savings/stocks (no debt at all).
Are you really compatible given these expectations? Has she told you why she expects an extravagant ring and wedding?

Also, after $100k in school loans, how much is she making? Is she making enough to repay the loans on her own one day?

Not clear what's in this for you.

Even if she can suck the chrome off a bumper hitch, eventually the sex life will cool. If she's expecting a sizable inheritance, that might wind up stuck in probate, or given to the father's fourth wife instead. Etc.

The net is this: deal with this conflict now, and don't let emotion cloud your judgment. If you can't agree on some basic financial priorities now, you're absolutely doomed. It's just a matter of when. Better for you it happens before the wedding.

Ahhh, weddings. This is probably my favorite money wasting topics of all time. I could probably type an infinte amount about what a waste of money weddings are. So, I'll try to keep this brief.

I'm being totally serious when I say this... if you can't talk her down from a 25K ring and 45K wedding, then don't get married. If she can't be level headed about the wedding, that's an awful precedent for spending the rest of your lives together.

If you are going to buy a ring, the "name brand" store thing doesn't make any sense at all. All rings come with the same certifications. Plus, you can get it appraised afterwards. So it doesn't matter where it comes from. Like one of the previous posters said, go cheap on the quality of the ring (color, clarity, cut) and go big on the size. Unless she's a jewelry expert, she'll never know.

I just don't understand the theory behind big weddings. Everyone pays an arm and a leg for the same 4 hour party, the same cheesy wedding DJ, the same bossy photographer, the same "Electric Slide", the same "Paradise by the Dashboard Light," etc... and you're no more married than 2 people that go to the courthouse.

I propose we add this to the Finance FAQ under Commonly Asked Questions:

13. Q: My spouse/significant other wants to spend $X on Y, which seems essential to their happiness, and which I think is a waste of good money. Can you (FWF) tell me if I'm off-base here, or tell me what I should do?
A: This is a relationship question, not a question for a finance forum whose members are devoted to saving and making money. If you can't resolve this issue between yourselves, then seek marriage/premarital/relationship counseling.

Edit: if we can't add this to the Finance FAQ, then start a forum category for this type of thread, a category that we can choose to ignore.

Dump her,

unless you like having a demanding,
financially insatiable
child-woman
running your life
until you get the nerve to divorce her.

Some guys like that - to each his own.

katx said: lydiachang said: Why is she insisting on these two things? How are her finances otherwise? Is she normally a big spender? Does she have credit card debt? ......



I think the above comments are very wise.

...

After I wrote the above, I noticed the name of the poster that I was agreeing with. Then I was reminded of the Seinfeld episode where George's mother thought she was getting advise from a Chinese woman but indeed the woman was white and only had a Chinese last name. When she found that out, she thought she was cheated. .......hilarious!!!!!

My wife and I paid for the wedding, 50/50. If she's worth it, and if she thinks you're worth it, you guys can make compromises. i.e. She wanted the brand name (Tiffany) ring. I spent the money on a bigger/nicer rock for probably half the price, and custom made the band to look exactly like the Tiffany one.

I know friends with wives who demanded the expensive rings because they're competitive with other women. If you don't agree with those values, you'll only run into troubles in the future. Talk about future finances before you think about wedding. It'll save marriages!!!

Wedding Spending:
Rings ~$9,000
Wedding ~$30,000
Honeymoon ~$2,500 (Bora Bora)

Money made from wedding:
$18,000

Current ring's value after appreciation:
$11,000

Oh, and on the wedding invitation, we asked for CASH. (You can make it funny, say you're registered at Bank of America/Wells Fargo.) I don't see why people say it's such a taboo. All our friends and relatives didn't mind! Saved time on shopping for them too!

Just my $0.02.

Edit: Oh, and I had a blast at our wedding! I plan on having only ONE in my life time, so to us, it was money well spent. You can't take it all with you, right?

antang said: ...I plan on having only ONE in my life timeIsn't that what most people plan, but alas, there's many a slip twixt cup and lip!

run away! you can thank me later

this story has the title "divorce in 1 yr" written on it.

Here is a nice opportunity to measure her worth. You plan an impromptu trip to Vegas. Bring your "life savings" with you. Pik a nice place where you wouldn't mind staying again and go gamble hard there. Make sure you join the players' club and be rated playing high stakes craps w/ 10x odds. You just bet pass/no pass with full odds (look it up if you don't know the game). You should be able to wager a couple hundred thousand over time with a house vig of only about 1%. Don't be afraid to lose $20k-$30k. You are getting ready to lose a whole lot more and will look back on this as CHEAP!! Anyway, the host at the casino will have a new best friend. You will have standing offers to comp rooms and air fare if you are a little lucky. Now this is where it gets a little funky.

Stop at a bank on the way out of town and get a safety deposit box to store your money in. Put all but about $8-$10k in the box. When you get home, make the big confession: "I was trying to win enough money to pay off your student loans, the wedding and your ring, but I left all my money in Vegas but this." Throw her a bank envelope. She'll say, "You lost it all but this." To which you answer, "I was up and down and made over $200k in wagers. I finally gave up and this is all I have left."

Give her a couple months to stew and if the wedding is still on, you've got a keeper. Otherwise, you can at least go to Vegas for free a few times care of the friendly casino where you gambled.

You see, your big mistake was letting her know how much savings you had before you married her. Don't make that mistake next time. And if you think she's good at spoiling herself, just wait until she starts spoiling her kids. The first time you say no, you'll be cut off in the bedroom. The second time you say no, she'll call a lawyer. That's just what love means to someone with those kind of values.

delzy said: Here is a nice opportunity to measure her worth. You plan an impromptu trip to Vegas. Bring your "life savings" with you. Pik a nice place where you wouldn't mind staying again and go gamble hard there. Make sure you join the players' club and be rated playing high stakes craps w/ 10x odds. You just bet pass/no pass with full odds (look it up if you don't know the game). You should be able to wager a couple hundred thousand over time with a house vig of only about 1%. Don't be afraid to lose $20k-$30k. You are getting ready to lose a whole lot more and will look back on this as CHEAP!! Anyway, the host at the casino will have a new best friend. You will have standing offers to comp rooms and air fare if you are a little lucky. Now this is where it gets a little funky.

Stop at a bank on the way out of town and get a safety deposit box to store your money in. Put all but about $8-$10k in the box. When you get home, make the big confession: "I was trying to win enough money to pay off your student loans, the wedding and your ring, but I left all my money in Vegas but this." Throw her a bank envelope. She'll say, "You lost it all but this." To which you answer, "I was up and down and made over $200k in wagers. I finally gave up and this is all I have left."

Give her a couple months to stew and if the wedding is still on, you've got a keeper. Otherwise, you can at least go to Vegas for free a few times care of the friendly casino where you gambled.

You see, your big mistake was letting her know how much savings you had before you married her. Don't make that mistake next time. And if you think she's good at spoiling herself, just wait until she starts spoiling her kids. The first time you say no, you'll be cut off in the bedroom. The second time you say no, she'll call a lawyer. That's just what love means to someone with those kind of values.

Agreed, you want a woman to marry who doesn't know how much money you have in the bank. I have quite a bit myself and my girl has even seen it for a second looking over my shoulder as I have been on the computer. I simply told her it was all owed to an AOR I did and I was unable to spend any of it and had to pay it back in a few months. She treated me as Mr. money bags for about two seconds before I put her in check, I now make sure that money is not an issue in our relationship by making sure we go dutch on about 80% of the things we do and big expenses are definitely one of those things. Man up or kiss her goodbye. It may be hard after already being one person, but she must know how financially savvy you are by this point.

Your soon-to-be has an awful lot of debt and this is going to get you in trouble when she decides she wants to be a stay at home mom for the rest of her life. Marry someone that is not going to spend all of her, or your, free money splurging. I see that as not having respect for money and the work it takes to earn it because whether you spend it right away, or wait a while before you do, it will all end up in the closet on shoes racks and hangers leaving you out to dry. Pre-nup or nothing for this one. Also tell her the official way to hold a wedding is for her parents to pay, so what ever they are willing to shell out is fine with you. As for the ring, good luck convincing princess that you ain't buying brand name shit if it is put in a pretty box and sold at a discount.

Wow, amazing... Didn't expect this thread to balloon to 300 lbs so quickly.