Hello again. It’s getting to be time to plan AOR 2.0 (aka I still think the housing market sucks, and want to eff up my credit score so I continue not to buy anything.) Looking again for basic BT arbitrage. I plan on being a bit conservative, maybe 10-15 apps total. I have some debt not showing on my report right now, so figure it would be a good time to strike.
My last AOR was successful, but with some AA. Chase took a hatchet to my line. The business card was cut to nothing after I repaid it. My other lines also were cut. I opened some Southwest and United bonus cards that seemed to piss them off. Recently, they opted not to renew my oldest card with them. Juniper and Discover both cut my lines. Citi and BOA recently denied me a CL increase for "low payments" and "too rapid an increase in credit". AMEX has been great, but sadly, don't have any BT offers.
Original Target Date – Sept 29th Now launching, Monday, Sept 15th.
Bio Age - 31 Individual Income - 69K Business Rev - 20K (I have that much in eBay sales last month in case they check) Business Type - Sole Prop. (I am now in the sales of rare coins and precious metals, thanks to the eBay/MS Live thing) HHI - 130K (if I include one roommate, 180 if I include the third, but figure that is risky) State - Maryland
Debts
Car – 8K (may pay it down or off this month) Student Loans – 58K (NOT currently on credit reports due to change in lender)
Inquiries Before AOR
EX – 7 (only one < 1 yr old) EQ – 4 (three bank accounts and a Comcast ~ 4 -7 months) TU – 0
Credit Scores
EX EQ TU (date, source)
771 780 791 (9/10, CS) 10K CC balance on some reports, 0 student loans.
771 780 792 (9/13, CS) All card debt gone, 0 student loans.
771 771 792 (9/15, CS) 8 new INQs (4 EX, 4 EQ)
779 785 793 (9/15, TC) 2 new INQs (2 TU)
771 771 780 (9/18, CS) 1 new INQ (1 TU)
778 769 784 (9/26, TC) 1 drop INQ (1 EX)
Current Lines
PersonalCardLimitAgeAMEX IN:NYC 1000 AOR 1.0
AMEX Blue 43900 5+ years
BOA Plat+ Visa 15000 AOR 1.0 (reduced to 100 during AOR 2.0)
Chase Sony 10000 AOR 1.0 (reduced to 500 during AOR 2.0)
Citi Driver’s Edge 1000 10+
Citi Professional 17300 AOR 1.0
Discover Miles 1400 AOR 1.0 (closed during AOR 2.0)
Discover 1750 10+
Juniper Nat Parks 8850 AOR 1.0 (closed during AOR 2.0)
National City 11250 AOR 1.0
Nordstrom FSB 15000 ~4 years (not showing limit on reports)
US Bank Baylor 25000 AOR 1.0 (reduced to 5000 during AOR 2.0)
WAMU ESPN 7000 AOR 1.0
Wachovia 7500 AOR 1.0
Dell LOC 5000 ~4 years
BusinessCardLimitAgeAMEX Blue Cash 1000 AOR 1.0
AMEX Simply Cash 6000 AOR 1.0
BOA Plat Biz 10000 AOR 1.0
CitiBusiness 20000 AOR 1.0
Discover Biz 9100 AOR 1.0
Notable Closures
Bank Atlantic (Last Oct, reallocated to Nat. Parks)
Advanta (Last Jan, effed up with a day late payment)
Chase Biz (~ Aug, slashed line)
Chase Pers. (did not renew, 4 yr old card)
Multiple Chase Travel Bonus Cards (closed in the spring)
Prospective List
Off the listBOA NEA 0/12 30 (will try for 2nd Plat Plus)
Elan M&T Biz 0/6 0 (avoiding Elan/USBank)
PenFed Plat Daily Spender (doesn't seem worth the inq)
Juniper IFly 0/12 50 $15 Statement Credit (canceled after B.A. denial)
Nat. City Biz 0/6 0 (Not available in my area, replace w/ Quilters
These are in no particular order. Should I add more Citi or Chase cards to boost my lines. Any suggestions or advice would be much appreciated. Thanks.
Results- 10 of 11 applications approved! (in order of application)
Credit LimitsCardTypeINQStatusIntialFinalNotes
USBank Irish Per EQ Den/App 0 25000 called, CLR-cutBaylor(20K)
Citi Biz Biz EX App 10000 10000 CLR denied
Chase Biz Reb Biz EQ Den 0 ----- Various bogus reasons
Citi Assoc Bank Per EX App 20000 20000 CLR denied
Bank Atlantic Biz TU Den/App 0 24000 CLR-closed Nat Park (8.85K)
BOA Plat+ MC Per EX App 5200 20100 CLR-cut BOAplatVisa(14.9K)
Advanta Kiva Biz EQ App 2500 2500 garbage
Chase Plat Per EQ App 5500 15000 CLR-Cut Chase Sony (14.5L)
Cit Plat AMEX Per EX App 14200 14200
Nat.C. Quilters Per TU App 12500 23750 CLR-closed Nat City (11.25K)
Disc. More Per TU App 0 8500 CLR- closed Miles(1.4K)
Total New Business Lines = 36500 - 0 (CLR) = 36500
Total New Personal Lines = 126550 - 70900 (CLR) = 55650
New Lines = 92150
BT Money
CardActionFeeNotes
Nat.C. Quilters 10000 0 Overpaid car loan
Citi Assoc.Bank 17000 0 Requested personal check
BOA Plat+ MC 17000 0 ACH to checking
BOA Plat+ MC 3000 0 BT to AMEX Simplycash (paid bill)
Bank Atlantic 20000 75 BT to BOA Plat+ MC
BOA Plat+ MC -20000 - Laundry
BOA Plat+ MC X17500 0 ACH to checking, Canceled BOA error
Chase Plat 13000 75 BT to BOA Plat+ MC
BOA Plat+ MC -13000 - Laundry
Nat.C. Quilters 10500 0 Requested personal check
Citi Biz 2 9900 0 Requested personal check BOA ATM took it!
BOA Plat+ MC 20000 0 ACH to checking
BOA Plat+ MC 10000 0 ACH to checking
US Bank Irish 21000 0 BT to BOA Plat+MC
BOA Plat+ MC 1000 0 BT to Citi Plat AMEX (payment)
BOA Plat+ MC -21000 - Laundry
BOA Plat+ MC 20000 0 Deposited Conveniece check
Total 118400 150
29900 (business) + 88500 (personal)
20500( 6 mos.) + 77900 (12 mos.) + 20000 (15 mos.)
1) Have you considered whether there might be a better daily spender available than the PenFed? (Full disclosure: The PenFed has been my daily spender for some time.)
The reason I ask is that I have a 3-yr-old Citi Simplicity that I don't use much, but have recently noticed that it still offers 2% Cash Back on most (all?) purchases. Maybe such deals are largely unavailable these days.
2) Would you consider tossing your low-CL Discover cards for a shot at a new one with a better CL?
Well, I signed up for PenFed last year to try for a car loan, and got denied because of all my balances. I figure I should try to get something out of them.
I'm looking now for a 0% purchase card. I use my AMEX Simply Cash for most of my spending now (3% gas, 1% everything. I'll look for something else). I might throw in a Discover More or try for another business card. I would want to keep my original discover card though since it is by far my oldest card.
Good luck. I'd also be interested in hearing about how your 12k attempted msft live cash back profits are going?
Edit: by the way, I highly recommend the Citi Platinum Am Ex card for purchases. 5% on everyday purchases (gas/groceries/drugstores) and 3% on everything else for first two years, up to 150k point limit per calendar year. With the right timing on card application, you can make your first two years cover three calendar years, and with aggressive enough purchases, get up to 450k typ (3 x 150k typ) out of this.
On citi "low payments" complaint, I'd pay 2x minimum to keep them happy.
On BoA (personal card, such as Platinum plus or NEA), if you've got a large CL, PIF right before statement close, and re-BT 100% utilized limit right after statement close each month of the 0% promo. You'll get close to 100% Utilization, BoA will think you're the greatest customer, and there will be $0 debt reported to CRAs.
I noticed your Chase Biz Rebate terms are for 12 months. Earlier today I noticed that markkundinger's similar thread had a link to the same card but with a 15 month deal. Guess you'd lose the cardselection bonus though.
Thanks for the Chase Biz Rebate link. I think I'll forgo the CS bucks for 3 more months. I change the BOA pet rewards to the BOA NEA (6 more months for a 30 dollar fee). I'll look in the Citi Platinum AMEX. Who can I consolidate lines with that one, Citi or AMEX (not that it really matters, just curious). I also added a Discover More card to consider, though it would probably only be worth it if they close my biz card and reallocate the limit over.
I wasn't quite up to 12K on the MSFT live deal. I made close to 10K in precious metal profit, then saved quite a bit more on a few electronics and gift certificates. I'll walk away with about 5000 cash, a garmin 650, a Wii, two new middle road Dell Laptops (retailing from 500-800), 2 rolls of Silver dollars (gifts), EDIT, removed some of my "surprises" in case friends are reading. The rebates have been trickling in. This weekend will be a big one.
Nummerkins
Senior Member
posted: Sep. 10, 2008 @ 1:49p
I would recommend going for 2 Citi biz cards that you can combine. They seems to approve in pairs pretty easily, and on my last AOR they only pulled once for the 2 cards. YMMV though.
Nummerkins said: I would recommend going for 2 Citi biz cards that you can combine. They seems to approve in pairs pretty easily, and on my last AOR they only pulled once for the 2 cards. YMMV though.
Do you mean apply for the same card twice?
Nummerkins
Senior Member
posted: Sep. 10, 2008 @ 2:34p
VerbalK said: Nummerkins said: I would recommend going for 2 Citi biz cards that you can combine. They seems to approve in pairs pretty easily, and on my last AOR they only pulled once for the 2 cards. YMMV though.
Do you mean apply for the same card twice?
No, two different cards. Citi Biz TY and plain Citi Biz for example.
Glitch99 said: VerbalK said: I change the BOA pet rewards to the BOA NEA (6 more months for a 30 dollar fee). Here's a no-fee 12-month offer from BofA.
I got that one in my double dipper section. I see lot's of folks have applied for a second BOA card of the same type. It strikes me as risky though. I think I might just eat the 30 bucks and apply for a technically different card... or maybe try to convert by old Plat + to a different card.
VerbalK said: Glitch99 said: VerbalK said: I change the BOA pet rewards to the BOA NEA (6 more months for a 30 dollar fee). Here's a no-fee 12-month offer from BofA.
I got that one in my double dipper section. I see lot's of folks have applied for a second BOA card of the same type. It strikes me as risky though. I think I might just eat the 30 bucks and apply for a technically different card... or maybe try to convert by old Plat + to a different card.I've applied twice (last Oct and last week), and reallocated the limit from the first one to create the second without question. Remember, once its open its just a plain old basic run-of-the-mill BofA card, with slightly different terms (no BT fee). And for the record, I was also just approved for a second Citi Biz account, using the same 15k TYP application as I did last year.
Your hesitation, while understandable, is totally unfounded.
Squeezer99 said: wow i wish i had known about the no fee BOA plat plus card. i applied for the NEA card in my AOR with the $30 feeyou did know about it.. you just didn't apply, I guess.
Discover More 0/12 75 (Or do the deal for 0/6 and get the camera
On the landing page it shows 6 months but when I applied, the actual T&C panned out to be 12 months
jackcrawfish said: Squeezer99 said: wow i wish i had known about the no fee BOA plat plus card. i applied for the NEA card in my AOR with the $30 feeyou did know about it.. you just didn't apply, I guess.
Discover More 0/12 75 (Or do the deal for 0/6 and get the camera
On the landing page it shows 6 months but when I applied, the actual T&C panned out to be 12 months
At what point did you see 12 months in the T&C. I'm at the submit application screen, and it's still only showing 6 months.
So I'm looking to start bumpage. I don't think it would be worth it to load up right now just on the off chance I can clear 4 EQs in a couple weeks.
But after launch, what are the best of breed bumpers. I've browsed other threads, but I can't seem to get a good list. I know I should avoid TU based bumpers, and I'm guessing I will need at least 4-5 services.
I don't think there are any extra special links to Citi Platinum Am Ex (I think now they all have the same terms), they are all typ rewards, not cash. They all have the $125 2nd year annual fee. (Used to be $100 but I think those terms are history.) link fw discussion
Citi is the issuer and they are giving you the credit limits. However it may be in it's own "credit limit bucket", or at least in bucket with other "no pre-set limit" type citi cards. (They refer to them internally as "revolving" type accounts.) They are difficult to reallocate non-revolving limits into or out of.
It's easy enough to convert typ into cash at at least 1 cent per point. For example, redeem for a student loan rebate check (they will mail you a check that is made out to a financial institution of your choice.) With fixed flight redemptions you could get even more value per typ. (At the higehst, 3 cents per typ for business class flight redemption.)
The annual fee (starting in year two) used to be stated at $100, but at some point they raised it to the current $125. Still, it's worth paying once to get the 2nd year's 5%/3% rewards, assuming you do enough transaction volume. (And based on your implied paypal transaction volume, I'd say you can generate enough transactions to max the 150k typ per calendar year.)
VerbalK said: jackcrawfish said: Squeezer99 said: wow i wish i had known about the no fee BOA plat plus card. i applied for the NEA card in my AOR with the $30 feeyou did know about it.. you just didn't apply, I guess.
Discover More 0/12 75 (Or do the deal for 0/6 and get the camera
On the landing page it shows 6 months but when I applied, the actual T&C panned out to be 12 months
At what point did you see 12 months in the T&C. I'm at the submit application screen, and it's still only showing 6 months.The T&C state 0% BT until Oct 2009 (which is actually closer to 13 months as of right now).
woodsley
Senior Member - 1K
posted: Sep. 10, 2008 @ 9:29p
I want to apply this card but when I clicked the link, it says this link is currently unavailable. Is is dead?
Edit: never mind. Anyways, I already have this card, so I don't think I am qualified for this offer. I really need a similar offer very soon.
Glitch99 said: VerbalK said: jackcrawfish said: Squeezer99 said: wow i wish i had known about the no fee BOA plat plus card. i applied for the NEA card in my AOR with the $30 feeyou did know about it.. you just didn't apply, I guess.
Discover More 0/12 75 (Or do the deal for 0/6 and get the camera
On the landing page it shows 6 months but when I applied, the actual T&C panned out to be 12 months
At what point did you see 12 months in the T&C. I'm at the submit application screen, and it's still only showing 6 months.The T&C state 0% BT until Oct 2009 (which is actually closer to 13 months as of right now).
markkundinger
Senior Member - 2K
posted: Sep. 10, 2008 @ 10:11p
Verbal, thanks for mentioning that BofA cited annoyance with low payments. And remember, if Chase slashes credit lines, it's just their way of showing they care
Is the nordie's card a visa/mc? Can you get it to report somehow?
Here are some risks:
- Advanta alternately gives good and horrible credit limits - Discover can support 3 cards, but seems to get more annoyed the more cards are open, looking into combining your two first. - Juny might not like 2nd and 3rd app, although bankatlantic will probalby skate by - US Bank might not like 2nd and 3rd (elan) app.
If you're fairly confident in the odds of getting, say, a chase biz or the first BofA acceptance, then with the second card from the bank, I'd look into making the second app something that will just get you CL and some sort of reward, since you'll just be reallocating anyway. But applying for a second 0% card could be a belt and suspenders approach.
markkundinger said: Verbal, thanks for mentioning that BofA cited annoyance with low payments. And remember, if Chase slashes credit lines, it's just their way of showing they care
Is the nordie's card a visa/mc? Can you get it to report somehow?
Here are some risks:
- Advanta alternately gives good and horrible credit limits - Discover can support 3 cards, but seems to get more annoyed the more cards are open, looking into combining your two first. - Juny might not like 2nd and 3rd app, although bankatlantic will probalby skate by - US Bank might not like 2nd and 3rd (elan) app.
If you're fairly confident in the odds of getting, say, a chase biz or the first BofA acceptance, then with the second card from the bank, I'd look into making the second app something that will just get you CL and some sort of reward, since you'll just be reallocating anyway. But applying for a second 0% card could be a belt and suspenders approach.
The Nordstrom is a Visa. I just made a 20 buck purchase on it, hoping that sparks a new report to be sent. I noticed before that some services listed it oddly before.
Advanta, I'm on the fence. I didn't get much of a line last time, and although mostly my faulty, I was upset with the way they handled my day late payment last time, which was mostly due to their crappy online payment system.
Disover... Maybe I should cancel my 8 grand Discover biz first. I have a feeling that if I apply, they'll call me to cancel or reallocate anyway. I like having lot's of Discover for that gift card deal.
Juny... I'm only applying for the BankAtl and the Ifly, and only currently have the Nat Parks. Should I dump the Ifly from the list, and reallocate the Nat Parks over to the new BankAtl?
US Bank... I forgot that they are linked with Elan. Again, I doing one personal (Irish) and one biz (M&T). How our elan cards at consolidating? Maybe I'll dump the M&T card.
Citi can still do Pers to Biz allocations, correct (I may need to call several times). Chase didn't do that, as I remember.
VerbalK said: US Bank... I forgot that they are linked with Elan. Again, I doing one personal (Irish) and one biz (M&T). How our elan cards at consolidating? Maybe I'll dump the M&T card.ELAN/USBank doesn't just pull traditionally utilized bureau's like TU, EQ and EX... they also use ICS / ARS which contains all of your inquiries from the past 18 months... so from your AOR1.0, they'd see (11 EQ + 4 EQ in OP + 7 TU + 3 EX) = 25 INQ...
In that case, I'll shelve the M&T for now. Anyone have success reallocation between US Bank cards, considering that Baylor 25K limit is biggest limit in play at the moment.
VerbalK said: In that case, I'll shelve the M&T for now. Anyone have success reallocation between US Bank cards, considering that Baylor 25K limit is biggest limit in play at the moment.They'll let you shift that limit to establish a new card; have yet to try reallocating between two existing cards.
DjPiLL said: Are TrueCredit based services working for B* again? I thought that was gone.I have them only for EQ bumpage purposes and the EX based services for TU bumpage. I am of the impression that TU based do not help TU bumpage - only EQ bumpage.
DjPiLL
Senior Member - 2K
posted: Sep. 11, 2008 @ 9:52a
jackcrawfish said: DjPiLL said: Are TrueCredit based services working for B* again? I thought that was gone.I have them only for EQ bumpage purposes and the EX based services for TU bumpage. I am of the impression that TU based do not help TU bumpage - only EQ bumpage.
Ok that makes sense. Forgot about EQ bumpage. Thanks.
VerbalK said: In that case, I'll shelve the M&T for now. Anyone have success reallocation between US Bank cards, considering that Baylor 25K limit is biggest limit in play at the moment.I just tried to consolidate 3 Elan biz cards with no succes: Cambridge Trust, IBC, and Security Savings. It makes sense; they're different banks. When I asked for CLI on one, they approved 5k and then said if I wanted more I should close the other cards, wait a month and try again. This influences me to close them all before the next time around.
Thank you for contacting us. The credit bureaus do not list the amount of credit available because the amount changes each time the card is used. We send updated credit information to the credit bureaus each month when your account cycles. If you have further questions regarding this or any other matter, please send us another secure message or call us at 1-800-964-1800. Sincerely, Melanie - Nordstrom Bank
Also, I may move my target date up. EX is still showing my final BOA balance. TU showed it as paid today. I'm tempted to do it now, but will wait until Monday. With my luck, AES will likely get it's act straight and report my student loans today.
Lots of deferrals. Denied by Bank Atlantic and called to reallocate my national parks over, but the operator didn't have it in her system yet. I canned my Ifly application because of this. Will try again in a bit. Advanta approved, but lord knows for how much. Citi Associated approved for 20K, will reallocate over to the biz card if approved. National City biz wasn't available in my area. I was going to try for a quilter's card, but I noticed many denials, and it is only for 6 months... not sure it's worth it. Also still unsure about another discover.
This AOR won't break any records, but hopefully I'll get a some decent line, and perhaps can get back into Chase's good graces. I'm only up to 9 apps, most of them bumpable, so this was a low risk endeveavor.
Update... Damn, Citi is now pull EX for me. I thought I could get out of this with maybe only 1 or 2 EX pulls.
Called Bank Atlantic. I closed my Juny Nat Parks. First CSR said my limit would be 8K. Then was xfered to a security ninja who said my limit was 24K. One prob though, I had a 14K transfer to a Citi card on the app, and he said he can cancel or modify that. I can do another BT, but will get hit fee again. Oh well, still a pretty good line, and I can pull another 10K out of it.
EDIT... BT didn't go through, so I got a redo for one fee.
VerbalK said: Called Bank Atlantic. I closed my Juny Nat Parks. First CSR said my limit would be 8K. Then was xfered to a security ninja who said my limit was 24K. One prob though, I had a 14K transfer to a Citi card on the app, and he said he can cancel or modify that. I can do another BT, but will get hit fee again. Oh well, still a pretty good line, and I can pull another 10K out of it.
EDIT... dummy, no fee on this card. Awesome.ok... so...
Applied for Bank Atlantic and received denial based on sufficient credit with Barclays and so you
called Bank Atlantic to close National Parks card in order to
shift National Parks line into brand new Bank Atlantic card and rep said
your new Bank Atlantic line is $8k but you were transferred to ninja who advised
your new Bank Atlantic line is $24k
Could you wait for the BOA Plat + card to arrive in order to do a $10k bt to that nice card (for laundering purposes)?
P.S. you might want to dbl check on the "no fee for Bank Atlantic" statement as I believe it to be $75
Update, apparently my promo is safe, got the 39 dollar returned payment fee refunded, and HALF of the charged interest. So it looks like I'll be out close to 80 bucks. Oh well.
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