Rathipon said:I'm so incensed I can't even read this thread. I just want to register my thoughts for posterity.

I'm a libertarian that usually votes Republican. I am completely sick of defending this administration. These alleged free marketers have done more to push us towards socialism than a liberal administration could have done in its wildest dreams. Both presidential candidates are now pushing tax cuts. In theory, I'm completely in favor of allowing hard working people to keep their own money. But how exactly does this government expect to absorb the brunt of close to a trillion dollars in bad debt, maintain existing services, make good on its social security obligation, AND cut taxes? The answer is the printing press. Once again, the prudent saver takes it on the chin. The lesson everyone should take from this administration's actions is that the bad guys win. Take big risks and if things go in your favor your rich, if not, you get bailed out. In the mean time, lets all try and get used to the idea of skyrocketing commodity prices as our monetary unit goes into the proverbial crapper.

I think that these past couple of weeks may go down in history as the beginning of the decline of the US. I can't believe what I am seeing with my own eyes.

You need a slight correction. The rule "Take big risks and if things go in your favor your rich, if not, you get bailed out." only applies to the already-rich. Middle class can't command the bailouts required here.

I think the problem most people are having is that "$1 Trillion bailout" sounds really bad.

Don't forget that it's not free money to these companies. These should be good deals that the government is negotiating with these companies- that will benefit both the govt (by turning a profit at the same time protecting the economy) and the company's benefit is that it stays alive.

The government should profit from such deals if negotiated right (as in the AIG case). Obviously that is not the goal (nor should it be) of these "bailouts" but if you can save the economy while at the same time profiting from the ordeal, that's good news. The government has the upper hand in these negotiations, and so can command a higher interest rate on loans, equity stakes, etc. The AIG deal is a good business deal, and like I said before- any company would take advantage of that deal if they had the cash right now.

Precisely why we have to make an example of deadbeats and foreclose their asses.

Everybody, stop working. Paulson and Bernake will take care of us. The US gov will not allow *ALL* of us to starve to death.

chuzzlewit said:Paulson's message: Dear Fellow Amerikans, there is no need to pay your mortgage from this day on. No one gets hurt. Your bank will simply sell your defaulted mortgage to the goverment. Since it's the government this may take a year or two. Then in the ultimate act of kindness, we will work to "keep you in your home" and give you your own personal bailout, reduced principal and a lower interest rate. A couple of years from now, you will simply re-start paying your mortgage again at a lower rate! Please spread the word to your comrades and neighbors who don't read the news.

I'm ready for my $200,000/yr in food stamps. I'll even pay 28% of it back in taxes.

DavidScubadiver said:ever hear of welfare and food stamps?

That's right. And the reason we have it is so that people don't starve.

DavidScubadiver said:That's right. And the reason we have it is so that people don't starve.

Really? I thought it was so that people can afford cigarettes and booze.

calvinandhobbes said:omarECD said:Morty said:DavidScubadiver said:ever hear of welfare and food stamps?Well, it looks like Bear Stearns, AIG, Fannie, Freddie, Citi, Goldman, Morgan, and JPMorgan sure have!

I don't think I've ever heard of anyone having to pay back welfare checks or food stamps at high interest rates or by giving up equity?does one's soul or integrity have any equity?

Depends on the person, some people have no problem reaping the system while others want to get off as soon as possible.

curtisekarr said:The complete socialization of our entire financial system. And all the "small-government", right-wing neo-cons are buying into this as if it's completely natural. Yet mention Universal Healthcare, which would be infinitely less expensive and infinitely more beneficial (especially if the insurance companies could be removed from the equation), and they're up in arms decrying the Democrats' attempt to "socialize" medicine. Utter hypocrites!

You do know that universal healthcare is only pretty on the surface? It looks glamorous when you don't have to pay anything when you goto doctor's office but have you asked at what cost? Longer wait times, lower quality and etc. Trust me, nothing is free and it isn't always that good under the skin. You should go read about underlying problems with Canada, England, France, Germany's health care system. It aint' all that pretty.

I have very mixed feelings about this situation. I sold 70% of my portfolio (etfs) on Monday morning when the market was 300 points down because it looked like we were heading for a crash. I believe we would have, and it appears the government concurs. Action had to be taken and the U.S. has just unleashed the nuclear option. Nothing is clear yet about how this bailout will work yet, and I am not happy to see it come to this. The reality is that this would have quickly ripped though the entire economy, and we would have quickly had a depression situation, but I am not sure we are not still heading in that direction.
With regards to the bailout.
My recommendation is that any company that uses this option should have ALL profits stripped and ALL executive salaries cut to the equivalent government pay grade. Until they have repaid any debt created by what was placed into this fund. The third is a AT&T style breakup of any institution that is "too big to fail" the most amazing thing has been these firms are growing larger by buying up the failing firms creating even larger issues.

I will be pouring one out for my Homey Capitalism this weekend cause he just died. At least for large companies, you can fail, nobody cares about that