Greetings all, and welcome to Moonbutt's r00kie AOR 1.0. I've been picking through AOR threads and others here on Fatwallet (and I'm still doing that), and I think I'm at the point where it's time to put a tentative plan down (such as it is) for the veterans here to comment.

My credit is good, with just one 13 month old EQ inquiry (hence "tabula rasa" -- clean slate), so I'm looking to get a sense of how much I can bite off with my first AOR.

GOALS

1. Move current debt to new 0% carrier. I may move the car loan over to save the interest. This is the top priority. Will try to put this into a business card.
2. Have enough BT left over after #1 for some arbitrage. I look at anything here as gravy, though I should be able to manage some...
3. Setup for possible AOR 2.0 in one year...
4. NEW GOAL as of 11/01/08: to add at least one rewards card/spender not from AMEX. As I live in California, foreclosure central with unemployment at 7.7%, I'd like a backup to the TrueEarnings card.

TARGET LAUNCH DATE: Friday November 21.

THE DATA

             myFICO       FAKO          INQ
EX           749           789          0
EQ           744           781          1
TU           750           789          0

(FICO as of July, FAKOS as of ten minutes ago from AMEX CreditSecure)
The one INQ is 14 months old.
EDIT: this data is unchanged as of 11/19/08

CURRENT ACCOUNTS: (all data updated 11/19/08)

BOA checking $5k cash on hand
HHI $160K (mine: $105K at current rate, the rest is the GF and roommate. I am a freelancer, so this can vary.)
Monthly average "surplus" after bills are paid: $1k

Car Loan @4.9% $10000 as of 11/19/09, slated to end in Sept 2010

Issuer							Balance/limit	Age	notes
AMEX TrueEarnings Costco (main spender)			$0/$18000	3y1m	(since PIF) *
BOA Ducks Unlimited MC (backup spender)			$0/$10000	2y6m	(since PIF)  (09/25 CLI)
BOA "peppermint" plain old VISA  (GF's spender)		$0/$8000	8y6m	(since PIF) **
Chase Platinum VISA (debt carrier)			$7200/$9000	1y1m	(0% resets to 9.99% 01/01/09)

Total revolving utilization: 16%

* All cards except the Chase are paid in full each month; the balances here are what shows on the CRA's right now.

** This card currently has a new 0% 12mo BT offer on it (uncapped).

CARDS IN THE CROSSHAIRS (11/04/08):

Mail offers:

ISSUER				Purchase%	BT%	Term	BT Fee	Cap	Purpose
WAMU Real Rewards VISA  	0		8.99var	18	0%	n/a	carrier spender

"Carrier spender" means I'll just pile up regular spending on this card and save/invest the dollars that would otherwise be used to PIF.

NON-SOLICITED APPS (drawn mainly from Squeezer99's AOR 2.0) -- additional suggestions welcome

ISSUER				Purchase%	BT%	Term	BT Fee	Cap	Purpose
Discover More			0		0	12	3%	?	free cam, rewards/spender, possible BT
Chase Disney Rewards		9.99		0	12mo	3%	$75	carrier BT #1
USBank Linux Visa		0		0	12	0	n/a	carrier BT #2
Citi Driver's Edge		0		0	12	0	n/a	rewards, then BT
BOA Platinum Plus MC		0		0	12	0	n/a	BT (if a third BOA account is OK)
Citi Associated Bank Visa 	0		0	12	0	n/a	carrier BT #3
Juniper I Fly		 	0		9.99%	12	3%	$50	carrier BT #4
Chase OptionsXPress		0		0	12	3%	$75	carrier BT #5

Currently hunting for 1-2 more cards with good signup bonuses, and 1-2 good BT cards, that fit this group well. The good signup bonus cards listed here are rather Citi-heavy.

BIZNAS CARDS
Citi Business W/15kTYP		0	12	0	n/a	carrier BT #4
Bank Atlantic Biz		0	15	0	$75	carrier BT #5
Advanta Small Buziness MC	~8%	15	0	%90	BT (?)
Citi AT&T Universal BizVISA	~8%	15	0	%90	BT (?)
Advanta T&C says BT must be from business account.

NOTES:

1. "Carrier BT" means that the card is a candidate to carry my actual debt (as distinguished from "debt" incurred in arbitrage) as mentioned in Goal #1. Cards that have tighter BT conditions, such as fee-free BT's only with application, or BT to CC only (for the Chase), will be considered first for this.

QUESTIONS:

1. I expect that the high utilization on the Chase card is working against me. Is that worth postponing the AOR to fix, and if so, should the fix be a paydown out of cash, or a CLI increase?

2. Should I try for CLI elsewhere also? The "peppermint" VISA (that's just a reference to the card color BTW) has that 0% uncapped BT offer on it, so a sufficiently big CLI might make that card work for BT purposes right now without any new apps at all.

3. Should I chance moving the car loan into revolving 0% credit, or leave it alone? Payment is ~$460/mo.

4. Are there any advantages/disadvantages to "pre-approved" offers versus non-solicited apps? Based on what I've read so far, the answer is "no" unless it's WAMU.

5. How is BOA on reallocation, and # of cards? I have two BOA cards already, and they are also my regular bank.

6. I've not included any business cards yet, because there seem to be some reports of those apps requiring more detailed submissions (tax returns etc.) Recommendations for relatively trouble-free biz apps welcome. I expect that I should have no issues here, as I've been running a business for tax purposes for several years.... but I wanted to check first.

7. I see lots of references to HELOC's in conjunction with AOR's, but I don't own a home. I have, however, received offers in the past for personal LOC's. Should I look into one of those for BT's? (I'd not be surprised to find that they are harder to come by these days.)

Chase Platinum has a $75 BT fee.

Citi AMEX and Professional cards have 15k TYP bonus in addition to 0%/no fee BTs.

Major issuers (Chase, Citi, etc) typically require no more documentation for Biz accounts than for personal accounts.

With $160k income, the single $7600 Chase balance shouldn't matter. You *may* want to wait and get the other cards reporting zero balances (the number of accounts with balances counts, in addition to the balance itself. Having 100% of your cards with outstanding balances probably wont matter but its possible).

BofA reallocated limits extremely easily. Even if your $30k existing limits is the max they're willing to give you (unlikely w/$160k income, but possible), they'll let you transfer the existing limit to create the new account.

Chase doesnt require BTs to a credit card - they send a welcome check with each card that is valid for the BT terms. None on your current list are particularly "restrictive".

markkundinger said:a) I would not apply for ANY of the preapproved apps. Capless fees are the pits, and they're not compelling offers.

b) I think the debt is hurting your utilization. I'm also guessing you don'thave $7600 laying around to pay down the 0% card. I would overpay the other cards so they all report with $0 balance, and wait a statement cycle until they report, before doing apps

c) If you've really been filing as a small business, then go for the biz cards. Lots of people have had lots of success with even less real businesses.

Regarding the Chase card, I do have roughly $5k on hand right now, and I may be able to zero out all CC's by the 15th of October if it's worth doing. At a minimum, I can get the Chase Visa below 50% without any trouble. All the cards have closing dates having just passed, so I'd have to wait a month to pay them down to 0 for CRA purposes anyway.

Thanks for the note on biz cards, that's what I was hoping you guys would say . I'll start plugging in some biz card apps soon.

All of this prompts me to punt until the week before Halloween. I hope there's still a credit market by then

Glitch: thanks for the notes, especially the info on BOA. With some of the things I hear about them, I was wondering if I should skip them, preparatory to moving to another bank entirely I'll update the OP with the new info.

1. CLI's are always good. Here's a link to a thread on how to avoid hard pulls for CLI's. Whether you get a CLI or not, I would pay the card down to 49%.
2. Might as well. Refer to above link to avoid getting a hard pull.
3. If you're responsible enough to pay your bills on time, I would say yes. If you think there's a chance you might miss your due date, I'd say no.
4. AFAIK, the only advantage is you won't get denied. I could be wrong, though...they might find an excuse to deny a pre-approved offer
5. Reallocation is easy and AFAIK, they don't care how many cards you have with them.
6 & 7. not sure

I think someone's already mentioned it but Citi has some cards with 15k TYP bonuses, one of which is the Citi Platinum AMEX card. It's a really good daily spender. 5TYP for every $1 spent at a supermarket, gas station or drug store, and 3TYP for every $1 on ALL other purchases for the first 24 months. First year's annual fee ($125 now, i think) is waived. The card has a bunch of benefits, too.

One last thing; try paying off your balances before the statement close.

I had a weaker credit profile than you with basically identical scores and I had a fairly successful AOR. I'm sure you'll do fine. Good luck

If you're gonna do biz cards, Id suggest getting one for each personal CC company you have (Chase, Citi, USBank, etc.) so that you can try to reallocate CLs and hide your BT amounts. Also Advanta has 15 month 0% which is good, but CL is YMMV. Some have reported low CLs, others have gotten $10k+.

BOA has been known at times to open up a card and lower the CL on an existing line if you get too many. If you don't care, its fine since you can use the new card for BT money.

And yes, ask for CLI everywhere that won't cause a hard pull, as well as paying your high util % cards down to 49% would be best.

has anyone seen moon butt?

hi ap286, I've not gone anywhere... my next big update will probably be this weekend, when I plan to add some biz card apps. I also plan to see about CLI bumps on my BOA cards. After that, it will likely be quiet for a time until mid-October.

CLI question: The "peppermint" VISA had a CLI increase from $1200 to $5k in June or thereabouts. The CSR couldn't do it immediately, it had to be "reviewed by someone"... but it happened just fine within two days. Does it matter that it happened recently? Should I leave that card alone and look for CLI on the Ducks MC instead?

SonorityGenius: part of the reason I was looking to go sooner rather than later, apart from the uncertainty in the markets, is that my freelance gig wraps up in mid-November. If I do this before then, my HHI is as stated above with no fudging (and there's an employer to say "yes, he's our employee"). Ideally, I can park that debt on a new 0% offer and then the savings I hope to accrue over the next two months effectively becomes BT money. Less ideally, I don't find new work immediately, in which case those savings will tide me over the gap.

Fortunately, I've been working almost solid for the last year and a half across about six gigs... I just don't want to take it for granted that the gaps will stay that short. Sooner or later, the recession will find my industry.

And that one INQ is dated Oct '07, so it will be a year old by the new target date.

OK, I did a CLI from 7K to 10K on the BOA/Ducks MC, and was auto-approved. My first thought is, that was too easy... any guidance on how to guage headroom on those, before I try for more?

markkundinger said:I didn't fully understand your juggly tactic, but if you have the conservative approach of just... not juggling, that would be more foolproof.

The idea was that moving the Chase Visa balance to AMEX right before it reports would "hide" it there for the first two weeks of October, during which I'd launch my AOR. Nonetheless, I am indeed inclined to avoid "juggling" if there is risk there... not to mention the $99 cost of the BT.

Glitch99 said:Good luck getting it done in 3 days.....

The last I paid attention to it, AMEX reports the statement balance on the first day of the second month after the statement closes. So your statement closes Sept 17, that amount will be reported on/about Nov 1st. Some other issuers also report on the first of each month, but without hte extra month's lag.

You can always dispute the balances as being incorrect if you miss the regular reporting cycle. This is recommended, even if you think you got it timed right.

And yes, it can be a decent (although expensive) method of temporarily hiding a balance.

It sounds like it's not quite worth doing this time around, then, if the time is tight. I also have incurred an unforeseen $3.5K expense today that I have to handle via cash, so I'll be carrying the Chase balance through October, at least.

A quick peek via CreditSecure shows that the reported balance as of right now is the previous month's balance, only $1400. Per Glitch, the $3k balance shows up next Wednesday. So, I think I'll just stick to a late October target date, zero out everybody but the Chase, and then "hide" the Chase balance on the AMEX and do the AOR the week before Halloween.