Great thought, except one thing- Gee Dub is the one who pushed cash-for-equity deal through, and directives to the banking industry are coming from the White House now, not from three months in the future.
(I expect more transparency from the coming administration. We'll see if my expectations are unrealistic.)
MikeR397
Senior Member - 3K
posted: Nov. 10, 2008 @ 2:46p
Thanks Jesse. Its about time.
orphanis
Senior Member - 1K
posted: Nov. 10, 2008 @ 4:52p
this looks more and more like greatest robbery of the new century
vstrt said: This is EXACTLY how the next 8 years (probably longer) will be.
...Continue to watch this country get carved up by the HAVES and continue to watch the HAVE NOTS work harder and longer for it.I always wondered what kind of id0ts supported Patriot Act. Now I know.
Robbing from responsible savers - young workers, middle aged and senior citizens alike - to bailout the incredible greed of the 'money is my G_d' crowd on Wall Street - gotta protect those bonuses in Manhattan above all else.
nycll said: vstrt said: This is EXACTLY how the next 8 years (probably longer) will be.
...Continue to watch this country get carved up by the HAVES and continue to watch the HAVE NOTS work harder and longer for it.I always wondered what kind of id0ts supported Patriot Act. Now I know.
Good job, Bloomberg News.
I always wondered what idiots supported terrorist. nevermind, it was always obivous.
I have two daughters who are 4 and under. I use to think my Grandchildren would see the end of the world. When I hear stories like this, I wonder if my children will see the end of the world.
WhiteGuy said: I have two daughters who are 4 and under. I use to think my Grandchildren would see the end of the world. When I hear stories like this, I wonder if my children will see the end of the world.
We're having our first soon, and I am not happy with my government.
TiteArse said: Life will probably stink for a child that has parents that believe the 'Sky Is Falling'
Why?
I have plenty of liquidity and protection from the debris that will be falling.
I'm not nearly as pessimistic about my future or that of my child as I do for many of my peers, which I take no joy in proclaiming - but then again, I don't believe in taking on debt or living beyond my means.
I do bitterly resent seeing the return on my savings eaten away essentially due to the governmental subsidies flowing to Wall Street as the government expropriates savers' wealth, however, but maybe ongoing and continuing deflation will hedge that bitterness as cash becomes the most coveted commodity of all.
Here is something else they weren't quick to share: Text
dreamlogic
Senior Member
posted: Nov. 11, 2008 @ 2:40a
Since the Fed relaxed it's collateral rules to allow all sorts of junk as collateral, it's not hard to guess what the bank are going to put up for collateral. It's composed largely of toxic debt that the banks can't get rid of since it has virtually zero market value.
ILikeDollars
Greedy Member
posted: Nov. 11, 2008 @ 4:13a
JesseLivermore said: I do bitterly resent seeing the return on my savings eaten away essentially due to the governmental subsidies flowing to Wall Street as the government expropriates savers' wealth, however, but maybe ongoing and continuing deflation will hedge that bitterness as cash becomes the most coveted commodity of all.
What do you think the US will do in the long run when deflation and the rising dollar puts the squeeze on? Do you think they will allow the vast majority of indebted Americans to fail, and raise taxes during the crisis to compensate for China's newfound unwillingness to fund our excesses? Or do you think that they'll realize that with some significant inflation (which is trivially easy to create via a forceful weak-dollar policy), the foreign-debt problem and the falling-home-prices problem can be wiped out in one fell swoop, simply by screwing over those who were "selfish" enough to save? Let me remind you that our government honestly believes that "Economic Stimulus Checks" are a good idea.
I hope by "cash" you include a significant inflation hedge (and not just lousy TIPS), because otherwise I expect your bitterness to only increase rather than evaporate.
ILikeDollars
Greedy Member
posted: Nov. 11, 2008 @ 4:17a
Vanilla10 said: Here is something else they weren't quick to share: Text
From the article:
Some conservative economists argue that not only should a firm be able to use losses to offset gains, but that in a year when a company only loses money, it should be entitled to a cash refund from the government.
WTG Fed. This is exactly the type of BS that will get the Fed taken over by congress; then we'll REALLY be screwed.
vstrt
Senior Member
posted: Nov. 11, 2008 @ 7:45a
nycll said: vstrt said: This is EXACTLY how the next 8 years (probably longer) will be.
...Continue to watch this country get carved up by the HAVES and continue to watch the HAVE NOTS work harder and longer for it.I always wondered what kind of id0ts supported Patriot Act. Now I know.
Good job, Bloomberg News.
I didn't realize it at the time, but apparently when you criticize uncontrollable govt bail outs, moron logic dictates that you somehow support the patriot act. Using the same logic, not wanting to pay lots of taxes to bail out the scumbags in society is also somehow an endorsement of the patriot act?
vstrt, I missed the sarcasm in your original post, and you are right that you did not imply in anyway the Fed's refusal to provide information was justified. But I disagree with your "get used to it" attitude, even if it is supposed to be sarcastic.
JesseLivermore said: Seriously - bring back public hangings. Both for its poetic justice and its limitless possibilities as a torture device, I much prefer the stocks . . .
The Death Penalty was often exacted by the simple device of a "stocks". Even though movies portray the stocks as harmless, the reality was quite different. The device was placed in a conspicuous, well-traveled public place and the device would close around the victim's hands and feet. Depending on the crime, a person could be sentenced indefinitely to be confined by the stocks. Cutting, burning and stoning were common, since villagers had license to castrate and dismember; animals and the elements frequently did the rest.
If they can get banks to loan out at 4% or less, most will refiance and have better ability to make monthly payments. Do not understimate the power of Government.
If I remember correctly Wall street guys run this economy.... They are only looking for someone like Greenspan to roll the dice. Make a quick buck and wait like monkeys for government to bail them out.
HumDoHamaraDo said: If they can get banks to loan out at 4% or less, most will refiance and have better ability to make monthly payments. Do not understimate the power of Government.
I find it simply amazing that the fed is implying it's immune from a FOIA request - after all, haven't they been real sensitive to the claim that they are a private entity (which is true, despite the fact that their board is appointed by our government)?
They seem to want it both ways - claims of transparency and openness when they want the government to complete a request of theirs, but secrecy when it suits their whims.
It's not too much to have them tell the U.S. taxpayers who is receiving the money and what is being taken as collateral for it, IMO. It's our money, after all. The fact that they are refusing to volunteer this information is pretty telling as a modern commentary about how we're really getting the shaft as a people.
OLEOLEOLEO
Member
posted: Nov. 11, 2008 @ 12:57p
Some conservative economists argue that not only should a firm be able to use losses to offset gains, but that in a year when a company only loses money, it should be entitled to a cash refund from the government.
This is much like the "reverse income tax" of Milton Friedman. But it was for low-income people, not corporations.
JesseLivermore said: I find it simply amazing that the fed is implying it's immune from a FOIA request - after all, haven't they been real sensitive to the claim that they are a private entity (which is true, despite the fact that their board is appointed by our government)?
They seem to want it both ways - claims of transparency and openness when they want the government to complete a request of theirs, but secrecy when it suits their whims.
It's not too much to have them tell the U.S. taxpayers who is receiving the money and what is being taken as collateral for it, IMO. It's our money, after all. The fact that they are refusing to volunteer this information is pretty telling as a modern commentary about how we're really getting the shaft as a people.
Yes we are. I think the Fed is denying disclosure in a futile attempt to revive these illiquid, derivative markets, by refusing to disclose who offloaded their crap onto Joe and Jane taxpayer. But it won't work. The rest of the world now realizes what smoke and mirrors these mortgage backed securities (MBS), collateralized default obligations (CDOs) and synthetic credit default swaps (CDS) are now. The entire market for these derivatives was confined to a few investment banks (<40 worldwide) and hedge funds.
They didn't wind up spreading risk afterall, they wound up concentrating the risk.
Allowing those who played with this equivalent of chemical fire to remain in business is disgraceful, IMO. Let them all fail and other banks will step up and recapitalize the system. What a disgrace America has become as of lately.
Just read on wsj online that teasury is putting the purchase of illiquid securities on hold. Instead they realised it is better to inject capital like Buffet did with gs and ge.
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