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Friends,

After nearly four years and 127 pages of comments, I think this thread is dying. RIP. Thanks to everyone who shared info. In the last year it certainly helped guide me through the messy process of switching the good Schwab card to the not-so-good BOA card. I'm better off because of the help from this thread and this forum. Thanks to everyone who contributed.

Jeep

No, the twisted BofA saga continues. I got an email from BofA Bill Pay that told me because of my new Visa card number they would handle all bill pay updates. I thought to myself, what new card number. Is this email phishing? I went on-line and sure enough the visa card had a different last 4 digits. So I called BofA and asked an inept CSR what was going on. He said I should have received a new card, then said it was just mailed. This is because of the Schwab relationship that had been discontinued. I thanked them for their superb job of notification and told them that they had once again managed to lower my already low expectations of their bank. I wonder what changes to the credit card terms they are sneaking in with this number change, not that I'm pessimistic.

So people confirm if there is no foreign transaction fee? So far I don't remember anyone said they are charge with foreign transaction fee after they start using the BoA 123 card.

fish777 said:   So people confirm if there is no foreign transaction fee? So far I don't remember anyone said they are charge with foreign transaction fee after they start using the BoA 123 card.
Yes, as many others have confirmed previously, I can confirm that I have received no foreign transaction fee on the converted card.

BostonOne said:   fish777 said:   So people confirm if there is no foreign transaction fee? So far I don't remember anyone said they are charge with foreign transaction fee after they start using the BoA 123 card.
Yes, as many others have confirmed previously, I can confirm that I have received no foreign transaction fee on the converted card.


So, wait, is there a foreign transaction fee on the BoA card?

</sarcasm>

I have $950 rewards in my b of a card. if I deposit to my savings to get 10% bonus, would the $950 + $95 bonus will be taxable? TIA
I know if I request a check $950, there will be no tax

Just to add a twist to the BOA 123 card. My Schwab card was closed & BOA sent me a 123 card which I have NOT activated. Last week LA Fitness used the old Schwab card to charge a new yearly membership fee, which appeared on the new BOA card. I called BOA to notify them the charge was not authorized, that I had never given LA Fitness the old card number, but that they got it from Baileys when they took it over. I used the card at Baileys, for Baileys yearly membership payment and never authorized an auto charge. BOA said as a MEMBER SERVICE they port all on going charges to the old Schwab card to their new card. The only way I can stop the charge from recurring is to get LA fitness to stop charging the old Schwab card number. I still challenged the charge as invalid with BOA and got LA Fitness to reverse the charge & cancel my membership.

This incident bring to light an interesting BOA feature. Even though the Schwab number was terminated, any charge to the old number by any merchant having the number will automatically be ported to the BOA new card number, instead of being rejected, even though the BOA card has never been activated. BOA CS confirmed this.

According to the BOA CS, even "losing" the BOA card & getting a new number will not terminate this link. The only way to terminate this charge link is to cancel the BOA card & not ever replace it with another BOA Visa card.

Wow, talk about unexpected risk.

You are holding a common misconception - that the credit line is accepted by activating the card

This is not true. The credit line was activated by Schwab- and remained activated. The number and bank changed, but the credit line carried forward

BofA sent you a piece of plastic that had not been activated for use at PoS. But that did not impact the fact that the credit line was open

xkaplan said:   Just to add a twist to the BOA 123 card. My Schwab card was closed & BOA sent me a 123 card which I have NOT activated. Last week LA Fitness used the old Schwab card to charge a new yearly membership fee, which appeared on the new BOA card. I called BOA to notify them the charge was not authorized, that I had never given LA Fitness the old card number, but that they got it from Baileys when they took it over. I used the card at Baileys, for Baileys yearly membership payment and never authorized an auto charge. BOA said as a MEMBER SERVICE they port all on going charges to the old Schwab card to their new card. ...

According to the BOA CS, even "losing" the BOA card & getting a new number will not terminate this link. The only way to terminate this charge link is to cancel the BOA card & not ever replace it with another BOA Visa card.

Wow, talk about unexpected risk.


Weird. In the summer of 2010, FIA sent me (and probably lots of people--I think this thread covered it at the time) a new Schwab branded card and number to replace my existing Schwab card. There were already rumors at that time that the program would be terminated, so it was surprising they bothered. But once the cut off date arrived, the old cards were completely dead. Attempts to charge anything were denied, followed by a letter explaining this in the mail and that we should use the new card. I'm sure that it was denied as "Member Service." It's amazing what they can and can't do it depending on what is best for them.

As an aside, preauthorized charges, such as gym memberships, magazines, etc. do not require an expiration date and are very sticky. This can be good (a card is cancelled but my subscription stays current) or bad (fraud charges keep appearing and the bank claims they can't do a thing about it). As the other poster noted, activating a card just enables it for regular charges (to prevent fraud from intercepting the envelope), but no such activation is needed for preauthorized charges.

sweet !!

I'll soon cancel the BOA card since (1) I've just gotten the Fidelity AMEX 2% Cash Back card, (2) I've used many virtual card numbers, which by this time have exceeded their expiration date, for periodic subscriptions and (3) considering gym membership companies typical history of restarting periodic membership charges 6 months or so after membership & charges have been terminated. Having a merchant suddenly start charging this old number seems too risky for me. Additionally down loading BOA transaction for inclusion into my tracking spread sheet is incredibility convoluted to do.

xkaplan said:   I'll soon cancel the BOA card since (1) I've just gotten the Fidelity AMEX 2% Cash Back card, (2) I've used many virtual card numbers, which by this time have exceeded their expiration date, for periodic subscriptions and (3) considering gym membership companies typical history of restarting periodic membership charges 6 months or so after membership & charges have been terminated. Having a merchant suddenly start charging this old number seems too risky for me. Additionally down loading BOA transaction for inclusion into my tracking spread sheet is incredibility convoluted to do.

No need to cancel, just sock drawer it. Cancelling can hurt your FICO.

micrsoftwinopo said:   sweet !!
dude !!

NEDeals said:   xkaplan said:    As an aside, preauthorized charges, such as gym memberships, magazines, etc. do not require an expiration date (emphasis added) and are very sticky. This can be good (a card is cancelled but my subscription stays current) or bad (fraud charges keep appearing and the bank claims they can't do a thing about it). As the other poster noted, activating a card just enables it for regular charges (to prevent fraud from intercepting the envelope), but no such activation is needed for preauthorized charges.

Wow! You learn something every day. You are saying that recurring charges don't require an expiration date? I can't remember the circumstances but I am certain that I have had charges of this type denied because of an old expiration date. Since then I've always gone to the trouble of updating the date with the vendor. Interesting.

It is probably wise to change to mail delivery of cards to be sock drawered (or discontinued). With no action you get no mail, but if they do put through a charge you learn of it. Possibly alerts could do the same thing.

I lost a VAST AMOUNT OF TIME ON A Chase card where I discontinued it to avoid the fee and was promised it would be removed, but was not. I learned it had not been only when a credit issue led to the discovery there was still the fee plus penalties and interest.

With mail delivery, arrival of a bill would have shown the problem earlier.

TxJeep said:   
Wow! You learn something every day. You are saying that recurring charges don't require an expiration date? I can't remember the circumstances but I am certain that I have had charges of this type denied because of an old expiration date. Since then I've always gone to the trouble of updating the date with the vendor. Interesting.


It depends how the charge is processed, but yes it is very possible for certain recurring charges to go through without an updated expiration date. A distinguishing feature of these types of charges used to be a phone number on your bill in place of the city and state, but I'm not sure if that is still a reliable indicator.

xkaplan said:   Just to add a twist to the BOA 123 card. My Schwab card was closed & BOA sent me a 123 card which I have NOT activated. Last week LA Fitness used the old Schwab card to charge a new yearly membership fee, which appeared on the new BOA card. I called BOA to notify them the charge was not authorized, that I had never given LA Fitness the old card number, but that they got it from Baileys when they took it over. I used the card at Baileys, for Baileys yearly membership payment and never authorized an auto charge. BOA said as a MEMBER SERVICE they port all on going charges to the old Schwab card to their new card. The only way I can stop the charge from recurring is to get LA fitness to stop charging the old Schwab card number. I still challenged the charge as invalid with BOA and got LA Fitness to reverse the charge & cancel my membership.

This incident bring to light an interesting BOA feature. Even though the Schwab number was terminated, any charge to the old number by any merchant having the number will automatically be ported to the BOA new card number, instead of being rejected, even though the BOA card has never been activated. BOA CS confirmed this.

According to the BOA CS, even "losing" the BOA card & getting a new number will not terminate this link. The only way to terminate this charge link is to cancel the BOA card & not ever replace it with another BOA Visa card.

Wow, talk about unexpected risk.
Yup, I found it strange my Schwab card still works for charges. As does the CVC for the first BoA card they sent us (BoA sent 2nd cards out that had the "Signature" word on the front).

New cards

email from boa regarding platinum privileges level-2 new cards, a travel card with 2 points/dollar and a cash card which is essentially a 123 card with a fee. Called and asked if my current privileges card will remain intact-he said yes, including rotating 3 point categories and no forex. He had to look up the forex info and he was surprised, as they all are, that there is no forex fee with this card. the beat goes on

TxJeep said:   Wow! You learn something every day. You are saying that recurring charges don't require an expiration date? I can't remember the circumstances but I am certain that I have had charges of this type denied because of an old expiration date. Since then I've always gone to the trouble of updating the date with the vendor. Interesting.
What was the expiration date on your Schwab card? Mine was 7/12 before the conversion, so I would expect a charge on the old number to still be approved. The old expiration date is often a problem if it's actually passed, so I'm curious whether that was the case here.

ThePessimist said:   TxJeep said:   Wow! You learn something every day. You are saying that recurring charges don't require an expiration date? I can't remember the circumstances but I am certain that I have had charges of this type denied because of an old expiration date. Since then I've always gone to the trouble of updating the date with the vendor. Interesting.
What was the expiration date on your Schwab card? Mine was 7/12 before the conversion, so I would expect a charge on the old number to still be approved. The old expiration date is often a problem if it's actually passed, so I'm curious whether that was the case here.


When they exchanged the old Schwab card number for the new Schwab card number in mid-2010, the old card was dead in the water as of the date they announced in advance. Attempts to use the old number resulted in a denied transaction, followed up with a snail-mail letter explaining that you have to use your new card. Funny that BoA/FIA could stop an old card then, but they "can't" now....

NEDeals said:   When they exchanged the old Schwab card number for the new Schwab card number in mid-2010, the old card was dead in the water as of the date they announced in advance. Attempts to use the old number resulted in a denied transaction, followed up with a snail-mail letter explaining that you have to use your new card. Funny that BoA/FIA could stop an old card then, but they "can't" now....
IME, common practice seems to vary depending on whether a card was replaced due to theft/loss/data breach, or due to routine replacement/product conversion. If there was some kind of compromise of the old number, it's normal to thoroughly kill it to minimize the risk of fraud. In the case of product conversion, it seems common to let the old number continue to work.

The same thing happened to me recently, when 1&1 charged a domain renewal to my old Citi ThankYou Premier AMEX, which had since been converted to a Citi ThankYou Preferred Visa. Despite the conversion, and the new card being on a different processing network, the charge still went through and made it onto my Visa.

ThePessimist said:   NEDeals said:   When they exchanged the old Schwab card number for the new Schwab card number in mid-2010, the old card was dead in the water as of the date they announced in advance. Attempts to use the old number resulted in a denied transaction, followed up with a snail-mail letter explaining that you have to use your new card. Funny that BoA/FIA could stop an old card then, but they "can't" now....
IME, common practice seems to vary depending on whether a card was replaced due to theft/loss/data breach, or due to routine replacement/product conversion. If there was some kind of compromise of the old number, it's normal to thoroughly kill it to minimize the risk of fraud. In the case of product conversion, it seems common to let the old number continue to work.

The same thing happened to me recently, when 1&1 charged a domain renewal to my old Citi ThankYou Premier AMEX, which had since been converted to a Citi ThankYou Preferred Visa. Despite the conversion, and the new card being on a different processing network, the charge still went through and made it onto my Visa.


To clarify, the mid-2010 card swap was not due to data breach/theft, they issued cards with a new number series (i.e. new BINs) for their internal system reasons. At least that is what the letters stated, and typically when there is theft, the new number has the same BIN. (First six digits of card number).

Looks like this BoA 321 card has many different varieties now.

https://www.bankofamerica.com/myexpression_banking/pagination.do...

For Colleges & Universities, they have universities like

University of Michigan
University of Virginia
Cal Berkeley
Iowa State
Northern Illinois U
Penn State
Texas A&M
Texas
Univ of Buffalo
UCLA
USC
Univ of Arizona
Univ of Central Florida
Univ of Georgia
Univ of Houston
Univ of Miami
Notre Dame

Also have Military and others

Just a friendly FYI. They've changed what they call those first six numbers on cards. Here's the entry from Wikipedia.

"The first 6 digits of a credit card number are known as the Issuer Identification Number (IIN), previously known as bank identification number (BIN). These identify the institution that issued the card to the card holder."

You can also grab a LONG list of IIN references if you wish.

In December of last year I posted this rather cocky message:

"Now that's how it has worked since I stopped "pushing" ACH payments from a billpay account a couple of years ago. It remains to be seen if Bank of America, the largest financial institution in the free world, can get its act together and actually pull a routine ACH payment from my brokerage account accurately and on a timely basis. If not, I won't let BOA's ineptitude keep me from using a perfectly good system. There are way too many other credit card issuers who do an excellent job." (Emphasis added.)

Guess what? Less than a year later, they've screwed up the "auto" payment pull. Because my pay date was on a Saturday, they didn't post it and today (Sunday) they charged my account a $15 late fee. The rather clueless young woman with whom I spoke said since I've never been late before (ugh!) that I could call back on Monday after my payment posts and they would see about waiving the late pay. These folks could not successfully run a popcorn stand. Like I said in December, there are dozens of good options. BOA, I'm out of here. And yes, I have a sprig of mistletoe on my coat tail.

Jeep

TxJeep said:   In December of last year I posted this rather cocky message:

"Now that's how it has worked since I stopped "pushing" ACH payments from a billpay account a couple of years ago. It remains to be seen if Bank of America, the largest financial institution in the free world, can get its act together and actually pull a routine ACH payment from my brokerage account accurately and on a timely basis. If not, I won't let BOA's ineptitude keep me from using a perfectly good system. There are way too many other credit card issuers who do an excellent job." (Emphasis added.)

Guess what? Less than a year later, they've screwed up the "auto" payment pull. Because my pay date was on a Saturday, they didn't post it and today (Sunday) they charged my account a $15 late fee. The rather clueless young woman with whom I spoke said since I've never been late before (ugh!) that I could call back on Monday after my payment posts and they would see about waiving the late pay. These folks could not successfully run a popcorn stand. Like I said in December, there are dozens of good options. BOA, I'm out of here. And yes, I have a sprig of mistletoe on my coat tail.

Jeep

I'm not defending BofA in any way (because their system should have moved your payment date up a day - their online bill pay does this automatically, but I've never used their 'auto-pull'), but as standard practice, I always have my CC bills paid by online bill pay at least 10 days before the due date. That way, in case there are any issues, I can resend the payment. In today's low rate environment moving up a payment date by 5 to 10 days just isn't going to make a difference.

A part of the problem here is the CARD act which requires due dates not to change. Still, BofA should be smart enough to figure out a solution.

Boston One,

I agree with you, but I do prefer to use an auto-pull. I would very much like to move my full-balance "AutoPay" up to a date well ahead of the due date, but I don't see that as an option on their website. You can pay a fixed amount automatically at any date, but not the full amount due. Am I missing something?

Anyway, I have more credit cards than I really need, so this one goes in the sock drawer.

Thanks,
Jeep

*********************************

From Boston One: "I'm not defending BofA in any way (because their system should have moved your payment date up a day - their online bill pay does this automatically, but I've never used their 'auto-pull'), but as standard practice, I always have my CC bills paid by online bill pay at least 10 days before the due date. That way, in case there are any issues, I can resend the payment. In today's low rate environment moving up a payment date by 5 to 10 days just isn't going to make a difference."

lonestarguy said:   A part of the problem here is the CARD act which requires due dates not to change.
Other banks I deal with don't have any problems with automatically pulling payments, despite the CARD Act. I've received statements for my Sallie Mae card saying that payment is due on a weekend, but that my automatic payment would be pulled on a Friday. IIRC, Capital One will actually post an automatic payment on a weekend and then process the pull on the following Monday. I think Citi does the same thing.

AFAIK, none of these banks have been sued for CARD Act violations as a result. Automatic payment is a voluntary convenience program, and a bank can write into its T&C when pulls will occur when the due date falls on a weekend without being considered to have changed the due date. For a while, American Express actually insisted that automatic pulls occur 10 days before the actual due date - again, you didn't have to use their program if you didn't like the terms.

TxJeep said:   Boston One,

I agree with you, but I do prefer to use an auto-pull. I would very much like to move my full-balance "AutoPay" up to a date well ahead of the due date, but I don't see that as an option on their website. You can pay a fixed amount automatically at any date, but not the full amount due. Am I missing something?

Anyway, I have more credit cards than I really need, so this one goes in the sock drawer.

Thanks,
Jeep

Wow. That doesn't make any sense. Can't say it surprises me, though.

TxJeep said:   Guess what? Less than a year later, they've screwed up the "auto" payment pull. Because my pay date was on a Saturday, they didn't post it and today (Sunday) they charged my account a $15 late fee. The rather clueless young woman with whom I spoke said since I've never been late before (ugh!) that I could call back on Monday after my payment posts and they would see about waiving the late pay. These folks could not successfully run a popcorn stand. Like I said in December, there are dozens of good options. BOA, I'm out of here. And yes, I have a sprig of mistletoe on my coat tail.

Jeep


I had the same problem with BOA/FIA a few months ago. The payment hit on Monday and the late fee was automatically reversed within a few days. Made an initial phone call once I noticed the problem, but was almost shocked that the system handled it correctly. Of course, YMMV.

linglingfool said:   TxJeep said:   Guess what? Less than a year later, they've screwed up the "auto" payment pull. Because my pay date was on a Saturday, they didn't post it and today (Sunday) they charged my account a $15 late fee. The rather clueless young woman with whom I spoke said since I've never been late before (ugh!) that I could call back on Monday after my payment posts and they would see about waiving the late pay. These folks could not successfully run a popcorn stand. Like I said in December, there are dozens of good options. BOA, I'm out of here. And yes, I have a sprig of mistletoe on my coat tail.

Jeep


I had the same problem with BOA/FIA a few months ago. The payment hit on Monday and the late fee was automatically reversed within a few days. Made an initial phone call once I noticed the problem, but was almost shocked that the system handled it correctly. Of course, YMMV.


I too had the same experience, both with the original Schwab 2% Visa, and with the card I replaced it with, the Fidelity 2% AMEX, which is also administered by FIA. Whenever an ACH pull was scheduled for a due date that fell on a weekend, I would be assessed a late charge, which would then be automatically reversed within a day or two.

Thanks for the help, guys. The $15 "late payment" fee was, indeed, reversed last night. Just a programming glitch, I guess. Out of curiosity, more than anything else, yesterday I used the on-line chat function and the guy I spoke with was sharp and assured me that I would automatically be credited in a day or two. The two customer reps I spoke to by phone were clueless. "You'll have to call back after you pay your bill and we can reverse the charge because you've never been late before."

BOA = bad training.
BOA = bad programming.
BOA = institutional arrogance.

Once again, thanks friends.
Jeep

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